The Replay Value of ESO

Nortar

Raice wrote: »

Now, there is not a single MMO that even attempts to do this [level scaling], and frankly, I don't know why.

Not to derail from the original topic, but mentoring system (well, in regards to "even attempting") was introduced in such MMOs as EQ2 (not sure about EQ1) and Rift long time ago.

HBK

The concept of "replay" value is bonkers anyway. What people usually mean as "replay value" is actually "more play value", i.e. playing mostly new content due to branching story arcs and/or playing different classes/races/factions.

In that regard ESO is built differently than most MMOs as you can experience most if not all the content with a single character.

So technically you are getting an impressive amount of "play" value, just not presented in a way that gives you the impression that your are getting "more" content, as it can be played as a patent continuation of your character, rather than as "new" content for another character. But the end result is the same, you get a *** of questing.

I do agree however than veteran PvEing does break the illusion of faction allegiance. But if you really are into that kind of stuff, then PvPing is for you anyway, and you have little reason to play the other alliances PvE (other than willing to "powerlevel" to max VR, which is another matter entirely, and yes, veteran leveling for PvP should probably be improved).

yodased

Which MMO gives you "true" replay value. Ok so the widget you have to pick up or the crab you have to kill is a different color, its the same thing.

Raice

Nortar wrote: »

Raice wrote: »

Now, there is not a single MMO that even attempts to do this [level scaling], and frankly, I don't know why.

Not to derail from the original topic, but mentoring system (well, in regards to "even attempting") was introduced in such MMOs as EQ2 (not sure about EQ1) and Rift long time ago.

Fair point: I didn't think about Mentoring Systems. But it isn't exactly the same thing as Mob Level scaling. Also, I may be wrong about this, but the first MMO to really do this was CoH. And, frankly, it's a really good way to handle things, and from a lore vs mechanic perspective, is very effective. But even that doesn't alleviate the problems of Theme Parks being linear.

Essentially, Mentoring Systems will raise a player up to the Master's level, who is presumed to be of a high enough level to handle the Mob in the first place. Basically, it's just a player driven bolstering system, so that low level players can play with their friends who are higher level. They don't gain any abilities, their stats just meet the higher level player's range.

The reason I didn't think of this is because I think the problems of linearity are based in the fact that the World doesn't react to the player. Mentoring Systems are still based in the player reacting to the World. Although, having thought about this now that you bring it up, a Mentoring System plus a Mob Scaling System would be a really great game.

The High Level player aggros a mob that immediately reacts and adjusts to that player's level range. This provides the high level player with engaging, competitive content everywhere they go. But since their friend who just started playing is with them, they wouldn't be able to really participate in the encounter. But with a Mentoring system, they could. This would actually be better than a mob meeting an average level range between the party group, because even in this... the higher level player still wouldn't be challenged, which would negate the fun in grouping up.

Akhratos

I am not level50 yet but veteran leveling is a big concern to me as I am a pver and so I will hate to be forced to play other factions histories, killing your faction allegiance and leaving a complete different alliance history to be the last memory of rpers like me.

Id willingly farm my way to veteran10 by pvping and doing vet dungeons, but losing a ton of skill points is not anyhing Id like to happen, so in the end of the day, Ill see myself having to play the stupid dominion history as a Nord..

And they blamed combat numbers to kill immersion?

Cogo

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Nope , to me it got a really poor replay value.

Other MMOs would give multiple lvling zones usually , this one , does not.

That means if i want another char on the same faction , i need to do the same quests again , there are not multiple lvling zones.

Best exit to that is pvping ...

So yeah , if it depends on me making alts , i will unsub right there.

You sure post a lot in these forums (which is great!), for someone who claims to quit in 1 month.

Have you ever made 1 single positive note about the game. This feature is good, I like that, etc. Every time I see you post, its about either negative about something, or agree with someone else that's about to quit the game.

I am all for every kind of opinion. We need it. Even the "whiny" ones, to find REAL problems.

To me, you just seams to be a troublemaker.

Please, and I do mean please, show me that I am wrong and simply missed your post that says for exemple "wow, this instance was great, because xxxx).

Rev Rielle

It really is dependent upon the way you play the game.
If you try and do everything in a 'completionist' kind of way with one character, you're obviously going to feel there's relatively little replay value playing through with another character in the same alliance. It's also dependent upon other issue like why you play. For example if you play to primarily level up a character to max, doing the same areas over again will just feel completely stale and a 'grind'. If you're more into the story/quests/characters/lore etc, of the game, well there's enough content there within each faction that the second and maybe even third time you do it you will have forgotten many things from previous play-through and that will enhance it's replay-ability.

That being said you have more significant choices in ESO than other MMOs, but does that mean you have a lot? No, not really. At the end of the day, as with most things in an MMO, experience is largely controlled by the way that the player plays the game, and their outlook. Glass half-full, glass half-empty: That sort of thing.

Akhratos

Rev Rielle wrote: »

It really is dependent upon the way you play the game.
If you try and do everything in a 'completionist' kind of way with one character, you're obviously going to feel there's relatively little replay value playing through with another character in the same alliance. It's also dependent upon other issue like why you play. For example if you play to primarily level up a character to max, doing the same areas over again will just feel completely stale and a 'grind'. If you're more into the story/quests/characters/lore etc, of the game, well there's enough content there within each faction that the second and maybe even third time you do it you will have forgotten many things from previous play-through and that will enhance it's replay-ability.

That being said you have more significant choices in ESO than other MMOs, but does that mean you have a lot? No, not really. At the end of the day, as with most things in an MMO, experience is largely controlled by the way that the player plays the game, and their outlook. Glass half-full, glass half-empty: That sort of thing.

Im in that boat, thats why I hate the idea of going through the history of Covenant and Dominion alliances while playing my Nord character, slaughtering my chosen comrades and aiding my natural enemies.

It feels as wrong as it could be for anyone putting a little of RPing value into his characters, as I like to do with mines.

If I could grind my way to VR10 playing PvP and Veteran Dungeons, I would be completely happy. Ive made my grind in worst places like Prelude/Chronicle1 ages for Lineage2 and Im not ammused of it. But, Im getting forced to do it in order to get all of the possible Skill Points If Im not mistaken, am I?

Contrajuris

Instead of doing the other alliances' quests, there should be some added, different quests. While you could still do normal quests, throwing in newer quests exclusive to veterans would make it all much more appealing. It could help explain why you're suddenly helping other alliances. Something better than "See how things would have played out if you washed up on the shores of a different alliance".

cf398ub17_ESO

Mothanos wrote: »

Ehm your toon is going to hit veteran ranks and do all the quest the other factions did to level to 50 but only on a much harder setting.
Combine this with the 250 hours needed to grind trough questing from level 1 to V10 or soon V12 and i can say that as an altholic i wont ever going trough that again.

Why would we ? you already did all the other factions once you hit V10, and its a brutal grind.
Having a V5 atm i already lose the will to log in and continue questing....
This is a realy bad sign...

I say its lazy game decisions and the grind for questing is way to long.
I cant wait till the players reach V1 and search these forums for the 1st time and spit out their rage.

Its way to much and this game is way to shallow to have fun to make a second character and do the same stuff again.

Zenimax should offer alot more ways to gain levels then quests.
I have dire hope this game will be a great succes after playing every other AAA mmo out there for the past decade.
Hell i think Aion wasnt so bad after all :P

i agree with you 100% i am a vr4 and questing is the only way to gain any type of xp i am getting worn down the only thing that keeps me going is watching vr10 on the pvp battle field and of course craglorn if it ever freaking comes out !!