The Replay Value of ESO

Contrajuris

First of all, I would like to say I've seen this idea mentioned before but I haven't seen a discussion on it.

The problem with most mmo's and what (in my opinion) made TES games so great is the replay and variation. I have made several different characters on the same TES games and have had a different experience every time. Yes, there is some overlap but to me that is expected and welcomed. But in any mmo, I find little to no changes I can make when you make another character.

While I can just use my main character (who is a templar) and continue to play the added content, I really want to make another character and have a completely new experience. ZOS's solution to this works, but to me still isn't perfect. The idea of having 3 different alliances so that there is something new to play is creative and interesting, but in the end, any character in any alliance will pretty much do all the same things. Also, I'd prefer to have my characters in the same alliance, the Daggerfall Covenant, only because my guilds and my friends are all in it.

What I loved in the Elder Scroll games was that when I made a brand new character, I found something new to do every time. The choices that I made had actual consequences. Now don't get me wrong, ZOS did a great job but to me they're only scratching at the surface. I still can't help but feel the game could be that much more unique and interesting if there were multiple choices that had long term effect. If done correctly, players could possibly receive different rewards for quests, different quests based on their choices, and different allies.

Tell me what you guys think. Do you think the game has enough for a good replay? This is just what I personally feel, and I would love to hear what everyone else has to say about this.

TL;DR: The game is great and has a lot of variation for an mmo but, to me, the game could be a lot better if there were more and bigger choices for replaying.

ArgonianAssassin

No I don't think this game has much replayability after max level, questing is very linear, there's never any variations of zones especially if you like to go for the quest related achievements, and then after completing coldharbour to get to vet 10 you have to complete the other factions 5 linear zones ruining your experience of playing from 1-50 as another faction, and there aren't enough choices presented while question make it worthwhile to go back through them again, imho.

JexTex

While they did a solid job on alot of stuff...imo the replay value is very low for an mmo...like Argonian stated the Veteran system is going to bite them hard...they made creating an alt a pain to get max level with as you havto quest and quests more...its very linear and shouldnt have had the veteran system included in the levelin.

Betaguy

I think you guys are crazy, there is so much replay value I can't even begin to state how bonkers you are. I can roll the same toon and play so many different quests I never did the first time around I could basically solely do those for a different experience from 1-50. I left so many hubs/quests behind I can't wait to roll another toon and go through them on the same faction.

Poor planning on your parts in my opinion, I knew I would roll another toon so therefore I didn't complete many side quests for this reason.

Sanspoof

I don't think there is much replay value. I don't do pvp or dungeons so clearing out zones is the only way I have to level. It's fun the first time but I can't imagine enjoying a second playthrough much. The only variation would come from picking different dialogue options on a few quests, something that makes little difference. Would've been a bit better if there was more than one zone for each level bracket but we don't have this choice in this game.

nicholaspingasb16_ESO

Even skyrim had no replay value after 1-2 characters. On the first character, you miss a lot of stuff. By the second time through, you have completed everything that you can possibly find.

Kendaric

nicholaspingasb16_ESO wrote: »

Even skyrim had no replay value after 1-2 characters. On the first character, you miss a lot of stuff. By the second time through, you have completed everything that you can possibly find.

That largely depends on your playstyle.
I played a lot of characters in Skyrim as I don't go for the "one character does it all" approach. Therefore I had one character for the main quest (who also did the Companions quest chain as he's a warrior and the civil war questline), a rogue for the Thieves Guild, a wizard for the Mages Guild, an assassin for the Dark Brotherhood and a witchhunter-style character for the Dawnguard stuff. So there was good replayability for me

As for replayability in ESO, that's a different beast entirely.
What the game needs for replayability are alternative leveling/questing zones and alternate ways to gain veteran points so you can keep the other alliances for your alts. Add different quests as a follow-up to the major decisions (such as at the end of Betnikh) you make to that and you have plenty of replayability.

Mothanos

Ehm your toon is going to hit veteran ranks and do all the quest the other factions did to level to 50 but only on a much harder setting.
Combine this with the 250 hours needed to grind trough questing from level 1 to V10 or soon V12 and i can say that as an altholic i wont ever going trough that again.

Why would we ? you already did all the other factions once you hit V10, and its a brutal grind.
Having a V5 atm i already lose the will to log in and continue questing....
This is a realy bad sign...

I say its lazy game decisions and the grind for questing is way to long.
I cant wait till the players reach V1 and search these forums for the 1st time and spit out their rage.

Its way to much and this game is way to shallow to have fun to make a second character and do the same stuff again.

Zenimax should offer alot more ways to gain levels then quests.
I have dire hope this game will be a great succes after playing every other AAA mmo out there for the past decade.
Hell i think Aion wasnt so bad after all :P

Thechemicals

The replay value is there....unless you came to powerlevel mobs and pvp--- then it isnt there.

Ohioastro

No game has infinite replay value, especially one based around stories. On the other hand, 300 hours or so is pretty incredible for a modern computer game - and they will add more.

Chomppa

Since I'm waiting for content that is comming and the fact I'm still below level 20 , this game has a lot of replay value for me .

Zakua

Replay value, well I don't know. See that is a hard one for me, I am a one char kinda player.

At Vet4 now and I can say the game to me has a lot of "continued play value", I look forward to the new zones as they come and the possible world scaling that would allow/give us a reason to go visit Deshann or various other regions again and slay vet ranked mobs there.

As for alts...hell no. You would have to be crazzzay to want to lvl any additional toons to V10+ after doing it once lol. This is THE GRIND of grinds, I am having a blast don't get me wrong but to do it all again...no thanks.

Now I could see myself possibly mob grinding an alt to a certain lvl if it allowed me to get access to crafting or something that'd benefit my main but no I don't plan on replaying all three faction stories anytime soon, if ever.

Maybe it would of been a good design choice to allow players the option to mob grind at any level....doing so would open the door to folks who like alts and not force them to replay stories they have already done.

Contrajuris

For me, one toon isn't enough. My toon right now is an Imperial templar, but I would also love to play a Bosmer nightblade and an Altmer sorcerer. While I could use magic and stealth on my templar, I would prefer to have the alts. Having different builds gives the game some replay value similar to how I would play any other Elder Scrolls game. You have totally different builds to make which is a fairly important part. But the thing is, I'll still have to do all the same quests. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of grinding for hours and I enjoy the story and lore that all TES games (including this one) offer. However there's not many different choices you can do the second time around. Choosing to side with a different person on an alt isn't enough for me.

Kendaric wrote: »

nicholaspingasb16_ESO wrote: »

Even skyrim had no replay value after 1-2 characters. On the first character, you miss a lot of stuff. By the second time through, you have completed everything that you can possibly find.

That largely depends on your playstyle.
I played a lot of characters in Skyrim as I don't go for the "one character does it all" approach... As for replayability in ESO, that's a different beast entirely...

(Shortened quote to save space)
I pretty much agree with Kendaric. While what you both said is true, the point is in all the previous TES games there was some push to replay the game. Like I've said, ESO is still a great game and I'm still going to play it. I just don't know what I'm going to do when I become bored with my current character. However, in my opinion, the game could be so much more with branching story lines and choices.

Zepheric

I think questing needs to be reworked slightly, at level 50 all your factions zones should receive new quests pertaining to the quests you already completed and should carry you to VR 5 - 7 and all the other zones in the world should be level 50 equivalents of the most popular quest choices chosen by those citizens. So that way you are in their most popular version of their world and you have brand new content based on their choices.

Does that make sense?

-New Content based on your choices in your faction able to level to VR5-7
-other faction zone content based on popularity of quest choices that determines what the quests you do contain.

Results = Meaningful content, enough faction content to level you significantly high, not necessary to complete all the other zones, not necessary to grind.

It should no be necessary to grind any levels out if you don't wish to, thats just my opinion.

Listen up devs!

e.gamemarkb14_ESO

I stopped just shy of VR 6 on my Nightblade, and so far grit my teeth at the thought of trying to continue on again. Why? Well I just got into the 3rd play through (playing the 3rd faction now) and honestly, it feels incredibly lackluster=( Here is why...

1. Quest rewards are static, which I really fail to understand from basic game design / quest design elements how or why they chose to skimp on creative thought for this. This is not hard to program in, "intelligent" looting / rewards and offer several rewards to choose from.

2. Rewards should be meaningful, especially the main story ones! I see tons of main story rewards on every trade guild I belong to simply because players aren't given any choices.

3. I feel like my time and efforts are met with lower and lower quality rewards in the Veteran content. It's a total drag right now, no motivation to continue because of #1 above.

4. As a provisioner, it feels like my time and effort into farming dungeons, docks, cities, ports, etc. are not worth my while. I understand they want to make some ingredients like Pepper and Tomatoes super rare (if that was their real intent), however spending countless hours to find 1-2 pepper per day is no longer worth my time. It's simply a turn off for me and I have never found any tomatoes except once which was a reward from my lvl 3 provisioner hireling.

Also add in that I have to use a ton of my personal bank space and personal bag space to hold all the resources I find as I enjoy crafting all sorts of foods and drinks and help get them to friends or guild mates. There is NO love or help in site for crafters, especially provisioners, and that has created a bit of bad crafting experience or desire to continue on much longer.

5. Cyrodiil / PvP - this was a big part as to why I bought the game because it initially reminded me of my old school days in DAOC. I was concerned in the beginning with getting into a campaign that becomes lopsided / very imbalanced.

The issue here is that at least on the US server, I see guilds "hop around" to other campaigns just to find fights, while other large guilds purposefully find the lowest, less active campaign and for whatever reason, feel it's "fun" to keep total dominance on that server, while destroying even small sized forces who try and take back one of their local keeps right outside of their main gate!

This feels 100% like GW 2 all over again and will cause a lot of subs to cancel out if nothing is done to improve and really enhance reasons why players should stay on a home campaign and work on that, instead of hopping around using the "travel to player" and skirting any need to change their guest campaign, just so they can find a fight or scout other campaigns for the "least resistance" so they can move there and dominate, thus creating further imbalances.

6. I don't feel like my choices matter at all in anything I have done in the game. No long term effects, nothing. The only thing I have found useful are the 1st skills from Fighters / Mage guild to allow you to skip a part of quest if you can intimidate or persuade. Other then that, nothing "feels" like anything I do matters.

I love Elder Scrolls, and really want to enjoy ESO, truly I do! It would be nice to have a really "fun" MMO to play with the Elder Scrolls title attached to it, I am just really concerned that it will continue to fall short of what it really needs to make it a success.

Contrajuris

Zepheric wrote: »

I think questing needs to be reworked slightly, at level 50 all your factions zones should receive new quests pertaining to the quests you already completed and should carry you to VR 5 - 7 and all the other zones in the world should be level 50 equivalents of the most popular quest choices chosen by those citizens. So that way you are in their most popular version of their world and you have brand new content based on their choices.

Does that make sense?

-New Content based on your choices in your faction able to level to VR5-7
-other faction zone content based on popularity of quest choices that determines what the quests you do contain.

Results = Meaningful content, enough faction content to level you significantly high, not necessary to complete all the other zones, not necessary to grind.

It should no be necessary to grind any levels out if you don't wish to, thats just my opinion.

Listen up devs!

I totally agree with you. That would give the game a unique twist to help set it apart from other MMOs. The only problem is, now that people have already finished a lot of the veteran quests, it would make implementing a feature like this very hard. They could however start doing this for later on for new quests and story lines.

albelnoxgm

I'd love to roll an alt but the mere idea of going for a second vr10 really puts me off. It would make rolling alts somewhat easier if they'd get a xp boost after having one character at vr cap already (25-30% boost, something like that)

tylarthb16_ESO

Doing veteran levels certainly kills desire to take an alt in another alliance or even same, As the entire series of quests will be repeated, with next to no variance. Faction loyalty is also damaged as you experience the compete story of your enemy meaning whatever built loyalty to your original side is weeks in the past and replaced with a more present storyline.

Contrajuris

albelnoxgm wrote: »

I'd love to roll an alt but the mere idea of going for a second vr10 really puts me off. It would make rolling alts somewhat easier if they'd get a xp boost after having one character at vr cap already (25-30% boost, something like that)

While an exp boost would make it easier, I don't think that it's needed. To me, that would just make a boring concept worst. However I do agree with you that getting another toon to VR is very intimidating.

tylarthb16_ESO wrote: »

Doing veteran levels certainly kills desire to take an alt in another alliance or even same, As the entire series of quests will be repeated, with next to no variance. Faction loyalty is also damaged as you experience the compete story of your enemy meaning whatever built loyalty to your original side is weeks in the past and replaced with a more present storyline.

To me, faction loyalty is a big part. Like I mentioned before, I want to stick with the daggerfall covenant. It is weird fighting for and with the other alliances, but it's nice to be able to check out all of their areas. However that could easily be done with an alt.

Mie87

No replay value in the same alliance imo.

Catdrexion

Questing is as linear as it can get, the only differences you'll see is something every once in a while like sparing or killing an NPC that will never come up again, and replayability is a joke since you are forced to do all the zones of every faction anyway and can't skip quests in veteran levels because they don't give enough XP and because you need to complete the almanac.

Falmer

I can see myself playing at least 3 characters (one for each alliance) at the very least. Personally, I don't see the point of playing VR levels at all. If I finish a factions areas and complete the storyline with a character, I would simply make a new level 1 character for the next alliance.

Abigail

I'm leveling four alts simultaneously in the same faction ... does that count as replaying?

I've been playing 8-12 hours every day, exploring, gathering materials like a mad woman, grinding mobs, and doing a quest here and there. My alts are now a whopping level-12 (but their respective craft levels are, hmmm, a good bit higher).

For the most part, I haven't been bored and have simply enjoyed existing in the game world -- until recently, when bots moved into the areas where I gather materials and ZoS decided to make looting an utterly futile enterprise.

In the context of my particular play style, the game isn't replayable at all; hell, it's just barely playable.

Loxy37

I have a VR2, L42,L15,L12,L3 and I would say too me it has a lot. I haven't gotten bored yet but I dont go from A to B in a straight line, I gather which I love for some unknown reason and have always done in MMOs, I chill, I help and I do it all pretty slowly. I play on average about 10 hours a day but I am out of work due to illness and games like this are the only thing that keeps me sane.

Nox_Aeterna

Nope , to me it got a really poor replay value.

Other MMOs would give multiple lvling zones usually , this one , does not.

That means if i want another char on the same faction , i need to do the same quests again , there are not multiple lvling zones.

Best exit to that is pvping ...

So yeah , if it depends on me making alts , i will unsub right there.

Tobiz

TL;DR linear content doesnt promote more then one character.
difficulty in questing as a party doesnt prolong content.

Im 43 at the moment, so have yet to see all content. Im in southern Bangkorai currently and have maybe 2-3 levels left in the zone (based on educated guessing) and have some quests in the main questline left.
Im pretty thorough as I quest with my main. I make sure I get the quest acheivement in each zone and then some.
I explore quite alot and go "off the beaten track" more often then on it.
I find so many chests that i have probably a level or two just from chests. I keep an eye on the skyshard achievement, and make sure i at least search for them for a while.

I have demoted my alts to mule-status as I see little to no replayability. I cant see myself doing this kind of comitted exploration again, in the same zones, with the same quests.
I love the game, but as it is all about the quests, the same quests, in the same order I dont class it as a replayable game. More zones is a tremendous art and dev effort so I dont see that as an option other then the occasional added content á la Craglorn to prolong content not add it as alternatives.

Id like to play the game with friends wich might prolong content a bit but with the absurdly fidgety party system I have no way of knowing where they are in a quest, and trying to find out is just futile unless you dont do anything while not together. Which of cource is ridiculous.

On the other hand, you may not have to alt much. With enough skillpoints to get 2 carefully selected skillbars and at least 2-3 professions and then some, you really could have just one character. With this in mind, its all about how fast you devour content. Ive ben playing since prerelease and Im at 43.
If you are VR10 since weeks back, maybe you should slow down and start an alt and actually do the content in stead or play less and get a life or acombination or both. The problem is that this attitude drives the hardcore raiders away and zones like Craglorn will be pointless if raiders unsub. I'd like to see the content but i dont have the tenacity to evaluate encounters, draft tactics, test, adjust, find team mates, evaluate their performance, replace when needed, rince repeat.
Its not easy catering to all crowds but Blizz did it well for a number of years. Did they have everything set up a month after launch? I dont remember...

kristiannyman88b16_ESO

Close to none in my oppinion. I'm V10 and have done all (not bugged) quests in the game. Just the thought of leveling an alt makes me sick after all the questing.

Would be more tempting to make another character if you could level up relatively quick without having to do all quests again.

1-50 is ok but V1-10 is just a pain.

Dantonian_Rarstiana

I have a VR 10.

Zero replay value what-so-ever.

Veteran ranks are not optional.

Level 50 is not end game.

Veteran Rank 10 is, for all intents and purposes, level 60.

To complete your character and start end game content, you must quest through every zone in the game, completing the story for all three factions.

Your faction choice has zero impact on the game, other than which side you PvP for, and who you are allowed to group and chat with.

-And to respond to the ridiculous request made by the OP that quest lines should have decisions in them that affect the story the entire way though, I would remind you... This is not a single player game. Not only does adding in those choices make quest designing take 3-4 times as long, it also compounds the already insane issue of party members phasing out from each other.

Please use your head before you request such ridiculous things.

This is not an Elder Scrolls game.

This is a themepark MMO with an Elder Scrolls skin, and Elder Scrolls lore.

Hiddenbunny

daftpunk wrote: »

Level 50 is not end game.

Veteran Rank 10 is, for all intents and purposes, level 60.

It should be treated as level 150, since you are playing two other factions contents as well. (minus coldharbour)

Like others have said, leveling another alt through the exactly the same content is annoying, and its not going to happen for me. I do want alts in different factions, but I already been through all the quests.

Just for the arguments sake, many said Wow has no replay value due to the very static content, but people level alts because its easy to do, and a good way to pass time. If that gets old, at least you can role a different faction and go through the contents on a completely different perspective.

In ESO, you have seen it all after the first character.

Raice

So... here's the deal:

Typical TES games have that replay value because you aren't necessarily doing the same quests every single time you play. There might be [some] overlap, but for the most part, you're doing different things... differently. The secret behind what TES does and what Fallout 3 did was that the entire game scales to your personal level. No matter where you go in the world, the enemies will scale to a specific range for your level.

This means you aren't funneled into a strict linear path. Which means you can easily be given a mission in one area, but have to travel halfway across the world map to do it, and then travel the second half to turn it in and complete it. Along the way, you're getting side-tracked, and just... exploring, crafting, experimenting, sneaking into places you aren't supposed to be in, and doing typical stuff.

Now, there is not a single MMO that even attempts to do this [level scaling], and frankly, I don't know why. The only thing I can figure is that the technology doesn't exist... but frankly, it's the only thing that is going to resolve this linear level scaling stuff. This would resolve one of the biggest issues with Themepark games. Some players might think this isn't a very wise decision, but I disagree.

You could literally have all the monsters immediately scale to the player that tags it first or aggros it. If the player is in a group, the mob will immediately scale to an averaged level range of all players within the group. Some mobs might peak at a low range, sure... but some will peak at a higher range. Put more caves and other things in the game for people to just wander around in. Named bosses might have a hard level range to prevent people from farming. Keep the group dungeons at specific level ranges, just as they are. Keep the main story quests at specific level ranges, just as they are.

The key here is to open the entire world map to everyone, and level scale all of it that isn't predesignated as something particularly important or special. Give a player a mission in the Alikir Desert that they might have to do in Morrowind. That's a lot of traveling inbetween. This will give you plenty of opportunity to get lost and just do stuff... just like in TES.

You could do this, and still give a soft linear path to the game for specific level ranges by placing nodes in particular areas. People who need iron will more than likely try to stick around in areas where iron can be found. It doesn't MAKE them stay, but it will encourage them to, and will act as an indiscreet guide.



In short, the replay value doesn't exist because you can easily go through each map very, very thoroughly on a normal play through. When you reduce your exploration down to just that tiny area... it doesn't leave anything left to be explored a second time.

Now, remove those barriers, make people start a quest in one map, and have to travel to another map in another faction zone if needs be, and suddenly, the player feels like they've a) really accomplished something, and b) got a lot of ground still to cover.

Half of a typical TES game's levels come from just killing random stuff and exploring. You don't really get that here in ESO, because you're doing so many quests in very finite areas. Put in level scaling, and frankly, this problem is solved. I realize it's a little more complicated than what I am writing here, but I don't really want to get into details. I don't get paid for it :P

ZiRM

ESO has very little replay value. Why make an ALT when you can do everything on one character? It's a never ending connect the dots game reading the same quests over and over.