Pre order bonus (any race any faction)

Manofmisery

Ok let me first say i have never been a fan of preordering, I like to see the launched game and then see if i'm willing to pay for that.

So i have come to the attention that the preorder bonus for this game is that you can pick any race in any faction, i don't agree with that and here is why.

It's fundamentally flawed to offer such an option in a mmo game where you want people to pay a monthly fee. The whole idea of an mmo is that you start out with equal options and choises. I find the imperial edition a going a little to far but i can life with that since there are equal other races to choose from(don't mind people getting the horse either).

But really a preorder bonus like that is just crazy how can you expect people to invest into a mmo where people pay a monthly subscription if you offer services like that?

Nox_Aeterna

It is kind of late to complain about that mate heh.

It is not something they are selling and they remove so nobody else can get , it is something people already paid for.

I can bet with you here and now , it wont be removed or changed at all.

At most i can see them selling this in the future in the shop.

Manofmisery

They didn't pay for it they just preordered a game, they payed the same ammount as i did, but they payed it before it was released. But that's not the point i'm trying to make. The point is that this kind of bonusses don't fit the monthly pay schedule they have put up at all.

Nox_Aeterna

Manofmisery wrote: »

They didn't pay for it they just preordered a game they payed the same ammount as i did but they payed it before it was released. But that's not the point i'm trying to make. The point is that this kind of bonusses don't fit the monthly pay schedule they have put up at all.

And im telling you , it is too late to complain about it.

It was sold being part of the package and i can bet with you , more than enough people got this game in preorder for this perk to give zen a headache if they ever tried to change it heh.

Which is why im quite sure it is not happening :P.

I would say it is more likely they will sell this bonus in the future , than that they would change it at all.

Nazon_Katts

Certain sites still sell preorder codes, if it's that what this thread is about.

Manofmisery

It's not that i want to have it it's about that it shouldn't excist in the first place. You can't have it both ways giving stuff away and still expecting the people that don't have it to pay a monthly fee. This is not a singleplayer game this is a mmo with a monthly subscription.

M.M.Fuchsb16_ESO

I really do not get your point. Can you give me an argument why that preorder bonus conflicts with a monthly fee? I just can not see it

Nazon_Katts

While you have a point, that an ideal subscription plan would include any- and everything, even expansions, this is very seldom the case. And the codes go for as low as 0,29€ currently.

Manofmisery

The core of an mmo is that everyone starts equal you can't just not include parts of the game that is there as a preorder bonus and then also ask a monthly fee. I'm ok with giving players something extra but this a significant part of a game you are talking about. You are narrowing peoples play choices simply because they haven't preordered. It's the same as metro not adding ranger mode to the none preorders, only that game is single player(not that that would make it right, but atleast you have no monthly fees).

I said it once and i'll say it again this is not a single player game this is a mmo with a monthly fee.

Nazon_Katts

You're facing differnt facts here, mate. Either cope with it or don't.

Manofmisery

What facts would that be?

And either cope with it or don't? what kind of answer is that? I'm just posting here to let them know they can't pull this kind of stuff and then expect people to infest in their game. Do you want people to leave after the free period? because that how people leave after the free period.

Nazon_Katts

That you have to pay thirty cents on top of your sub to get the preorder perks and that not everything is included with the sub. Dislike it as much as you like, you won't change it.

AlexDougherty

Manofmisery wrote: »

Ok let me first say i have never been a fan of preordering, I like to see the launched game and then see if i'm willing to pay for that.

So i have come to the attention that the preorder bonus for this game is that you can pick any race in any faction, i don't agree with that and here is why.

It's fundamentally flawed to offer such an option in a mmo game where you want people to pay a monthly fee.

Isn't it fundamentally flawed to argue against a package that has already been sold?

AlexDougherty

Manofmisery wrote: »

The core of an mmo is that everyone starts equal you can't just not include parts of the game that is there as a preorder bonus and then also ask a monthly fee.

Numerous MMOs have had special versions, you could argue that these versions (often including collector's packs(just not this version)) are just as much part of the MMO experience.

AlexDougherty

Manofmisery wrote: »

You are narrowing peoples play choices simply because they haven't preordered.

True, and I would support them selling upgrades after a while, just let us preorderers enjoy it a bit first.

Manofmisery

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Manofmisery wrote: »

The core of an mmo is that everyone starts equal you can't just not include parts of the game that is there as a preorder bonus and then also ask a monthly fee.

Numerous MMOs have had special versions, you could argue that these versions (often including collector's packs(just not this version)) are just as much part of the MMO experience.

Name one mmo(with a monthly fee) where your choices of race where narrowed while others could choose freely.

Eris

Manofmisery wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Manofmisery wrote: »

The core of an mmo is that everyone starts equal you can't just not include parts of the game that is there as a preorder bonus and then also ask a monthly fee.

Numerous MMOs have had special versions, you could argue that these versions (often including collector's packs(just not this version)) are just as much part of the MMO experience.

Name one mmo(with a monthly fee) where your choices of race where narrowed while others could choose freely.

To answer your question: Elder Scrolls Online. If you don't like that answer perhaps you should have been more clear with your wording.

Here is my position on your position.

The pre-order bonus is available to those that pre-ordered. If you didn't pre-order because you wanted to wait, then you don't get the pre-order bonus. If you don't like that you can't get the pre-order bonus, too bad for you... you made the choice.

No, you don't start off equal, there are plenty of ways that I can point out inequality in MMO design.

One of them, the easiest as it sort of works for this, is Veteran Rewards. In City of Heroes my character had veteran rewards that made me godlike at 1st level compared to other 1st level characters. I was 4 months shy of having all the veteran rewards. There were points when veterans had rewards ahead of me that were way more awesome then my most awesome rewards. I didn't whine about it, I accepted that I didn't start City of Heroes till 4 months after it was released.

The pre-order grandmaster pack gives me access to some pretty nifty stuff in the Secret World for any new character I want to start. Given the design of the secret world, I really try not to create new characters, but I've done it from time to time to hang with low level friends.

I've pre-ordered every expansion for LOTRO including the Shadows of Angmar (the main game). If I create a character, I have a huge number of bonuses items waiting for me out the gate that make me much more powerful almost immediately to anyone creating a character that just started. Plus I have veteran rewards in the way of anniversary gifts, that I now get 7 years worth of. Incidentally, you are limited in LOTRO in what class you can play based on the race you choose.

There are three examples of MMOs where you simply are not equal to people who started before you. In this MMO like any other, you are not equal to people who started before you.

Yes, you pay the same monthly subscription fee, but people who pre-order make an early commitment to the game and get perks for doing so. Those who decide to wait and see also decide not to get pre-order bonuses. In case you didn't get the message, that is you, whining about the decision you made because people who pre-ordered get a perk you wish you had. It has been clearly stated forever on their website that races were tied to factions.

BTW, as an FYI, I pre-ordered in February. My roommate actually pre-ordered about a month later but the website didn't work right and he and Zenimax had all sorts of problems sorting it out. To ensure he got the pre-order bonuses, he ordered the game again and waiting while Zenimax and his credit card company sorted things out. He did this because he wanted the pre-order bonuses and they were important to him.

So I have very little sympathy for you, you make a conscious choice and have to live with it (maybe, I feel it is more than likely that Zenimax will offer it as a purchasable add-on in the store after a year or so).

AlexDougherty

Manofmisery wrote: »

Name one mmo(with a monthly fee) where your choices of race where narrowed while others could choose freely.

None spring to mind, but that wasn't what I said, exactly.

You said that MMOs with monthly fees have everyone starting off with equal options, and I said that special versions at launch have been around for a while.

Swtor if you bought the Collectors edition you got Special Gear (armour, holostatue, and special crystal). Borderlands if you bought the Collectors edition you got special weapons. And others too.

Perhaps I didn't come across clearly enough though, sorry.

darkdruidssb14_ESO

It's not going to change. You can realistically view the pre-order bonuses in the same light as veteran rewards in many MMOs as @Eris‌ said. It's basically the same because only people that have invested money into the game from the beginning would reap the most benefits from the system.

In EQ2 I had so many veteran rewards that I could level super fast, rank up crafting super fast, have untold more bag slots than others... the list went on and on. It gave me a clear advantage over some noob that picked up the game 8-10 months after the game came out.

Many MMOs have veteran reward programs. Also many MMOs have recruit-a-friend programs that also allow those people that can recruit more subscribers to gain small advantages over people that can't get more people to subscribe. Mounts are notoriously advertised in recruit-a-friend programs in MMOs. If you can recruit some friends then you can get a mount that others don't have and you didn't have to spend in-game currency to get it.

Does the pre-order bonus for ESO still kind of suck? Yep. Did I pre-order just for that? No. I pre-order most games that I want day 1 because it helps me set aside the funds for that game in my budget. Most of the stuff you usually get from pre-orders is crap, but there are quite a few games that did give one-of-a-kind bonuses. ESO just happens to be one of those.

IF they ever add it in it will be a feature in the cash shop, but they won't strip the bonus out because it was an advertised bonus that all pre-order players were promised. If you didn't pre-order then it's a decision that you will have to live with. You had the opportunity just like everyone else to take advantage of it.

Silestia

Manofmisery wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Manofmisery wrote: »

The core of an mmo is that everyone starts equal you can't just not include parts of the game that is there as a preorder bonus and then also ask a monthly fee.

Numerous MMOs have had special versions, you could argue that these versions (often including collector's packs(just not this version)) are just as much part of the MMO experience.

Name one mmo(with a monthly fee) where your choices of race where narrowed while others could choose freely.

SWTOR, you can either unlock a race and play it off-faction by playing one to lvl 50 or you can spend cartel coins and get that race immediately. There is even a race (the Cathar) which is exclusive to the cash shop and you can only unlock it by spending cartel coins.

Sakiri

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

That you have to pay thirty cents on top of your sub to get the preorder perks and that not everything is included with the sub. Dislike it as much as you like, you won't change it.

What *are* you talking about?

Snit

Manofmisery wrote: »

The whole idea of an mmo is that you start out with equal options and choises.

I think you may have missed the last five+ years of how games get monetized. That hasn't been true for a long time. Given how expensive these games are to make, I wouldn't expect it to return.

Manofmisery

Silestia wrote: »

Manofmisery wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Manofmisery wrote: »

The core of an mmo is that everyone starts equal you can't just not include parts of the game that is there as a preorder bonus and then also ask a monthly fee.

Numerous MMOs have had special versions, you could argue that these versions (often including collector's packs(just not this version)) are just as much part of the MMO experience.

Name one mmo(with a monthly fee) where your choices of race where narrowed while others could choose freely.

SWTOR, you can either unlock a race and play it off-faction by playing one to lvl 50 or you can spend cartel coins and get that race immediately. There is even a race (the Cathar) which is exclusive to the cash shop and you can only unlock it by spending cartel coins.

Swtor did not have that system in place untill it went f2p please try again.

Snit wrote: »

Manofmisery wrote: »

The whole idea of an mmo is that you start out with equal options and choises.

I think you may have missed the last five+ years of how games get monetized. That hasn't been true for a long time. Given how expensive these games are to make, I wouldn't expect it to return.

There are other options to make your money back and in the long run it actually cuts into your profits. In a mmo you want to keep a large player base and keep them happy instead of luring people in with cheap bonusses.

Manofmisery

Also i see alot of you commenting on oh you could get that and or you chose not to preorder to make it clear i don't give a rats ass about not having the choises, i do however like to voice my opinion that you can't pull that kind of stuff in a mmo where you expect people to invest in your product.

They want a large player base yet zenimax pulls this kind of stuff, all of it feels like they are just trying to leach as much money out of it as they can(on short term). And after the subscriptions dry out they'll just throw in the towel. It feels like they aren't confident in their product (which so far they shouldn't be).

Basicly what they are saying: we know it's a *** product so let's slap some bonusses onto it and try to get it sold.

ChairGraveyard

IMO they did it so that people who preordered together could play together regardless of race.

Also it would look weird if there were ONLY players of the races in a given faction, because there are tons of defector NPCs, as is typical with TES games anyway.

Manofmisery

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

IMO they did it so that people who preordered together could play together regardless of race.

Also it would look weird if there were ONLY players of the races in a given faction, because there are tons of defector NPCs, as is typical with TES games anyway.

So it's ok for preorder players to play together regardless of race and let the other players that pay a monthly fee aswell go [insert stars here] them selfs.

darkdruidssb14_ESO

Manofmisery wrote: »

So it's ok for preorder players to play together regardless of race and let the other players that pay a monthly fee aswell go [insert stars here] them selfs.

Short answer is... yes. Everyone had the opportunity to get the same benefits. You could still get the Imperial Edition so you can play the Imperial race on any faction for the small price of $20.

Manofmisery

I could also renew my subscription and sink more money in this fundamentally broken game but i think i'll pass.

Maverick827

As someone who has the Explorer's Pack, I think it should be free to everyone. It's just too big of a thing to hold hostage. I don't think I'd keep playing the game if I didn't have the Explorer's Pack.

AlexDougherty

Maverick827 wrote: »

As someone who has the Explorer's Pack, I think it should be free to everyone. It's just too big of a thing to hold hostage. I don't think I'd keep playing the game if I didn't have the Explorer's Pack.

Well I'ld support it being sold as an upgrade, but it's not that big an issue, being able to mix up any race with any faction is nice, but I would play the game even with the limits of the factions.

Manofmisery

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

As someone who has the Explorer's Pack, I think it should be free to everyone. It's just too big of a thing to hold hostage. I don't think I'd keep playing the game if I didn't have the Explorer's Pack.

Well I'ld support it being sold as an upgrade, but it's not that big an issue, being able to mix up any race with any faction is nice, but I would play the game even with the limits of the factions.

That's the point i'm trying to make it's a pretty big thing to just include it in preorder, and then on the other hand they still want you to pay the same monthly fee while you are basicly gimped by not preordering. Why would you even do that aren't you supposed to buy games because you enjoy them. It just doesn't make any sence to include that kind of preorder bonusses in a mmo.(directed towards maverick).