Vampire Nerf increases Mist Form/Drain costs 3x, doesn't fix ultimate cost reduction on Bat Swarm

ChairGraveyard

I've never seen people even complaining about Mist Form or Drain Essence, as they are easily counterable and already cost a TON to cast without reductions.

Yet the upcoming vampire nerf does not actually address Bat Swarm ultimate cost reduction, meaning we'll still see tons of abuse from Bat Swarm spammers.

Meanwhile, the only two active skills in the line get a 3x cost increase, despite not actually being broken at all.

There is no reason not to use Boundless Storm or Bolt Escape instead of Mist Form now, and Drain costs enough that you can only cast it maybe twice in a battle.

Brittany_Joy

Elusive mist deserved the nerf but Drain essence did not. Elusive mist increased your movement speed to a godly amount, decreased damage taken by 75%, and made you untargetable. Elusive mist is OP and deserved the nerf becuase it allowed you to avoid alot of damage and make it impossible for enemies to catch you. Being reduced to a balance state is hardly a nerf. And do not act like your active abilities did not contribute a huge amount to you being OP.

Thevenin

I've never seen people even complaining about Mist Form

Oh my god, this is so awful, I mean, your sight.. You must be almost blind.. I really hope you live in a country where you can get the medical attention you need.

Get well,

ChairGraveyard

And do not act like your active abilities did not contribute a huge amount to you being OP.

Yeah totally, it's not the ultimate cost reduction which they DIDN'T EVEN FIX, it's all the stun which can be trivially broken, or Mist Form, which is entirely useless except to gain yourself 3s of survival while doing precisely nothing.

/s

ArgonianAssassin

Agreed, vampires didn't need these nerfs, all vampire abilities aren't worth using anymore, mist form deserved the nerf, but bat swarm and drain essence did not. What needed to be nerfed at ulti reduction abilities (Sorc and Dk skill lines) and Ulti reduction armor sets(Akavari Dragon Guard) and there's been no word on fixing our broken passives. Ridiculous, I sincerely hope ZOS rethinks this, 7% per stage, 21% reduced cost is a massive nerf, That's bring down the bat swarm ulti from 200, down to 158, that's terrible and drain essence is not worth using with this cost post-nerf, it's barely worth using right now pre-nerf, it can broken incredibly easy, has a stupidly close range, can only be used once and can't even be used on bosses, and now it has a magicka cost that doesn't match up with what it actually does.

Hail_Sithis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi8za2kTJDs

ChairGraveyard

PvE nerf, Bat Swarm spamming not fixed (fixing the stacking and nerfing reduction isn't enough - ultimate cost reduction calc needs changed) and no passive fix.

So we get all the downsides, and no benefit at all, as well as a 3x cost increase on our PvE abilities.

WT Heck ZOS.

ChairGraveyard

As predicted, a "certain type" decides to come in, not read (either due to inability or laziness, I don't know) the post at all, and post something totally irrelevant to the point of the thread.

Which, if people decide to actually read, is that Bat Swarm abuse is not fixed via this nerf - people will still be able to spam it and abuse it.

But it does screw up the PvE abilities in the skill line, for no good reason.

Aphilas

You mean it was perfectly fine to be able with proper skill line and gear to spam mist form indefinatly with occasional pot chug?
Yeah, right.

Thechemicals

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

As predicted, a "certain type" decides to come in, not read (either due to inability or laziness, I don't know) the post at all, and post something totally irrelevant to the point of the thread.

Which, if people decide to actually read, is that Bat Swarm abuse is not fixed via this nerf - people will still be able to spam it and abuse it.

But it does screw up the PvE abilities in the skill line, for no good reason.

The damage was stacking before.....lets see how it fairs now before we jump to conclusions.

ChairGraveyard

Thechemicals wrote: »

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

As predicted, a "certain type" decides to come in, not read (either due to inability or laziness, I don't know) the post at all, and post something totally irrelevant to the point of the thread.

Which, if people decide to actually read, is that Bat Swarm abuse is not fixed via this nerf - people will still be able to spam it and abuse it.

But it does screw up the PvE abilities in the skill line, for no good reason.

The damage was stacking before.....lets see how it fairs now before we jump to conclusions.

No, the damage was due to ultimate cost reduction. That problem STILL EXISTS after this nerf.

That's what everyone is trying to tell you people whilst you stick your fingers in your ears and go "LALALALALAL I CAN'T HEAR YOU, BAT SWARM IS FIXED".

The nerf almost solely affects the ability to use drain and mist form in PvE, and does jack about people spamming (not talking about stacking it - yes, that's fixed, durrrh, that's not what I'm talking about) which will *still be a problem* after this nerf.

But now, Drain and Mist Form both have cheaper, better alternatives by *FAR*.

This nerf practically encourages every vampire who *wasn't* abusing bat swarm to do so now, because it's still possible and the other two abilities have been nerfed into uselessness.

chimneyswift_ESO

I'm pretty upset about this nerf tbh. I've been a vampire since level 18 and had it within the first week and a half of the game being out. Never once did I abuse the Bat Swarm ultimate reduction (most times just stayed in bugged stage 4 where my ult still costed 200). I would use Elusive Mist regularly to escape (what it's MEANT for), travel, or keeping up with a group in PvP if I couldn't mount my horse for "being in combat" even though I wasnt (Retreating Maneuver + Elusive Mist for more speed). Now I'm just confused. Reducing Stage 4's Magicka costs from 60% down to 21%?! And Elusive Mist's speed at rank IV from 52% to 30%? Why not just drop it 10% and go to 42%? Elusive Mist wasn't THAT fast...I tested it and that 52% was literally SO close to normal sprint speed its not even funny. Sprint Speed must be like 50% and Elusive Mist was maybe 2% faster. Not to mention they nerfed vamps, but now our passives are STILL broken when we die. Instead of nerfing us and taking stage 4 down to 21% reduced mana costs for vampire skills only, why not make it 45% BUT MAKE IT WORK. In broken stage 4 my Vampire spells cost what they would in Stage 1...its so frustrating.

Apparently ZOS wants people to drop vamp now I guess since we got both nerfed and are STILL bugged. Why not buff the Fighters Guild abilities a bit instead? I dunno, just a very frustrated vampire here who never once abused the bugs out there in PvP to cheat and get extra kills (not to mention I play more PvE and used these skills reliably there as well).

emperornerevarb14a_ESO

They didn't need to nerf vamp, They only needed to add PVP gear to heavily reduce damage from vampire skills. if you agree with me hit the agree buton on my post.

alexion891ub17_ESO

We gonna talk about how bat swarm is still cheap to cast right for Sorcs and dks now since the patch is out or do I need to give a demonstration?

ChairGraveyard

alexion891ub17_ESO wrote: »

We gonna talk about how bat swarm is still cheap to cast right for Sorcs and dks now since the patch is out or do I need to give a demonstration?

I think a demonstration is definitely needed. Perhaps it will silence all the trolls that claim we're bat swarm abusers, when we really just trying to shed some light on the fact that the bat swarm abuse has *NOT* been fixed, and the nerf mostly affects non-abusers who use their abilities in PvE.

emperornerevarb14a_ESO

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Elusive mist deserved the nerf but Drain essence did not. Elusive mist increased your movement speed to a godly amount, decreased damage taken by 75%, and made you untargetable. Elusive mist is OP and deserved the nerf becuase it allowed you to avoid alot of damage and make it impossible for enemies to catch you. Being reduced to a balance state is hardly a nerf. And do not act like your active abilities did not contribute a huge amount to you being OP.

Dude if your gonna rip on elusive mist then say something about bolt escape too otherwise you just sound like your crying cause mist form vamps beat you and your sorc buddies all the time.

emperornerevarb14a_ESO

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

alexion891ub17_ESO wrote: »

We gonna talk about how bat swarm is still cheap to cast right for Sorcs and dks now since the patch is out or do I need to give a demonstration?

I think a demonstration is definitely needed. Perhaps it will silence all the trolls that claim we're bat swarm abusers, when we really just trying to shed some light on the fact that the bat swarm abuse has *NOT* been fixed, and the nerf mostly affects non-abusers who use their abilities in PvE.

And there never gonna fix the issue properly to where everyone is happy unless they put in pvp gear that reduces the damage taken from vampire skills by a large amount and undo the nerf they did to vampire.

alexion891ub17_ESO

So with the power stone passive and the dragon guard, my ult cost is about the same as it was when i was in stage 3 pre nerf without the set.puu.sh/8AV2E.PNG

fenweeneb18_ESO

alexion891ub17_ESO wrote: »

So with the power stone passive and the dragon guard, my ult cost is about the same as it was when i was in stage 3 pre nerf without the set.puu.sh/8AV2E.PNG

LoL the tears will be delicious

Dantonian_Rarstiana

Message received, loud and clear.
Bat Swarm Spam is intended.
Build your characters accordingly.

Botak

DRAIN ESSENCE mana cost is too much and the passives still BROKEN

Sheneria

alexion891ub17_ESO wrote: »

So with the power stone passive and the dragon guard, my ult cost is about the same as it was when i was in stage 3 pre nerf without the set.puu.sh/8AV2E.PNG

i think I'll use batswarm spam now too. got the set already and thanks to zenimax "nerf first fix later" policy i'll have some "fun" with all the trolls cheering on this "nerf".

One Two

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Elusive mist deserved the nerf but Drain essence did not. Elusive mist increased your movement speed to a godly amount, decreased damage taken by 75%, and made you untargetable. Elusive mist is OP and deserved the nerf becuase it allowed you to avoid alot of damage and make it impossible for enemies to catch you. Being reduced to a balance state is hardly a nerf. And do not act like your active abilities did not contribute a huge amount to you being OP.

Riiiight... but BOLT escape is in no way OP at all...

It's clear that zenimax is in the business of playing sorcerers foremost and will always make this class the default to test and play.



Now Mist is on the same level as a sorcerers speed buff but they forgot that vampires have so many negatives such as:
-50% to -25% FR
-25% to -75% HP regen
Fighters Guild Skill passives and Skills Hit us HARD
Bugged Vampire Stage system
Bugged Passives

All these negatives don't matter, Vampire MUST BE Slower than a sorcerer, it absolutely CAN NOT and WILL NOT be able to catch up on BOLTING sorcerers, all these negatives out weight it's boons on every turn.

but hey, since sorcerers allready have a quick escape button, let's not even bother FIXING BAT SWARM, naw, let the DK and Sorcerer abuse that more, it's perfect.

SexyVette07

I gotta admit, im fine with the movement speed decrease, but the cost increase was ridiculous, especially for not even fixing the REAL problem. The negatives far outweigh the positives now IMO. Ill give it a week and see if anything else changes before I jump to conclusions, but ill more than likely cure it.

Phoenix99

OMG, you huys need to understand that Mist form was as much of a problem as the bat swarm... It gives super mobility, near invulnerability and there are TWO skills in the game that can lock you down during the Mist form.

The mobility it provided was making DKs nearly unkillable. Same gos for other classes like templar.

The bat swarm is still an issue, BUT only with the sorc combination, who still get great synergy with their abilites to cost reductions, arguably better mobility than mist form with their bolt escape, so you will just see sorc with invis swarm and bolt escape owning the PvP... but that's the problem of the sorc skill set and not the vampire skill set anymore. I do think however that the drain essence should get some base cost reduction.

Mist form is now fine, bat swarm is now fine, but you need to fix the sorc side of the vamp+ combinations now.

SexyVette07

Phoenix99 wrote: »

OMG, you huys need to understand that Mist form was as much of a problem as the bat swarm... It gives super mobility, near invulnerability and there are TWO skills in the game that can lock you down during the Mist form.

The mobility it provided was making DKs nearly unkillable. Same gos for other classes like templar.

The bat swarm is still an issue, BUT only with the sorc combination, who still get great synergy with their abilites to cost reductions, arguably better mobility than mist form with their bolt escape, so you will just see sorc with invis swarm and bolt escape owning the PvP... but that's the problem of the sorc skill set and not the vampire skill set anymore. I do think however that the drain essence should get some base cost reduction.

Mist form is now fine, bat swarm is now fine, but you need to fix the sorc side of the vamp+ combinations now.

Abilities? As in plural? Sorcerer has 1 passive that reduces ultimate cost by 15%. If that is game breaking, then the ultimate needs to be adjusted, not a passive. Or adjust the armor set bonuses to prevent people from getting them down to ridiculous levels.

IMO, the problem lies with all of the ways to reduce the cost to next to nothing.

Phoenix99

SexyVette07 wrote: »

Phoenix99 wrote: »

OMG, you huys need to understand that Mist form was as much of a problem as the bat swarm... It gives super mobility, near invulnerability and there are TWO skills in the game that can lock you down during the Mist form.

The mobility it provided was making DKs nearly unkillable. Same gos for other classes like templar.

The bat swarm is still an issue, BUT only with the sorc combination, who still get great synergy with their abilites to cost reductions, arguably better mobility than mist form with their bolt escape, so you will just see sorc with invis swarm and bolt escape owning the PvP... but that's the problem of the sorc skill set and not the vampire skill set anymore. I do think however that the drain essence should get some base cost reduction.

Mist form is now fine, bat swarm is now fine, but you need to fix the sorc side of the vamp+ combinations now.

Abilities? As in plural? Sorcerer has 1 passive that reduces ultimate cost by 15%. If that is game breaking, then the ultimate needs to be adjusted, not a passive. Or adjust the armor set bonuses to prevent people from getting them down to ridiculous levels.

IMO, the problem lies with all of the ways to reduce the cost to next to nothing.

Well add diminishing return on cost reduction and the problem should be solved.

limeli8

People are crazy, bat swarm isn't spamable anymore its 200 base cost so even if you are an ex emperor sorc (20% reduction) and in stage 4 thats 41% total if you use the dragon set and seducer set u get 64% which is 72 and trust me as a sorc with "sword and board" u cant generate 72 ultimate fast enough to spam it and even if you did 1 stack does very little damage and you'll hardly kill anyone. As a DK you can generate ultimate faster but for a DK the cost will be 15% more - 102 so you get same thing really.

One Two

Easy FIX, give us 2 abilities.

25% dmg reduction and 60% speed buff.
75% Dmg reduction and 25% speed buff.

DONE.

Vitho

worst fix ever!
nerfing a broken passive without fixing it*lol*
Cost reduce is still broken, after every loading screen my cost reduce is at stage1
pls ESO think a little bit longer about ur balancing, dont pick up every tear and become swtor

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

DK nightblade etc all class wich can generate ultimate quickly trought spell can spam this ability with ease even at a 200 cost. with reduction from gear we still end up with a huge joke (sap essence 5 time spam carve do anything that generate ulti and you perma in it)