Secret No Refund Policy

Uthgaard

This is to alert anyone who might desire to obtain a refund in the future that Zenimax Online will refuse to issue refunds of your purchase based on a secret policy. You will note that this policy, which is purportedly based upon your character level, is not present on any of your receipts, and is not posted anywhere on the Zenimax Online website. Zenimax Online has also gone on record stating that their attorneys do not have telephones or email addresses.

Zenimax Online is based in Maryland, USA, and is subject to Maryland state jurisdiction and statutes. Below is a link to the MD state consumer protection bureau which clearly states that refund policies must be posted conspicuously on the receipt or merchandise.

If you have also been denied a refund of this poorly designed product, you may follow the directions enclosed to file a complaint against the business and end this unlawful practice. This is not legal advice, but a legal right of everyone who has entered into a contractual business relationship with Zenimax Online, and censorship of this message will constitute interference with that right.

http://www.oag.state.md.us/Consumer/cpdfaq.htm

"Is a store or business required to allow me to return an item, as long as I have the receipt?
Under Maryland law, stores must post their return policies on the wall, on the merchandise, or on your receipt. A store can refuse to accept returned merchandise if that is their posted policy. If the policy isn't posted, the store must accept returned merchandise within a reasonable time period. If an item is defective, the store must repair it, replace it or give you a refund, regardless of its regular refund policy. "

Sirlex

Seems reasonable enough to me. Not sure what a reasonable amount of time is, but seems like most places are 30 days or under.

Sakiri

Opened software is often nonrefundable and subscription fees are nonrefundable.

Though everyone in America knew this.

Oh, and I want to say refund policy is in terms of service/eula but I cant say for certain and Im not on my pc

Sakiri

PS: this game doesnt fit "defective".

Alyrn_Grey

Good for them. If you played enough to level a character then you certainly don't deserve a refund.

sociald100ub17_ESO

Unless this game wont run on your computer and your computer meets the requirements then I don't see how you are meeting the criteria for a refund.

Uthgaard

Fortunately, internet trolls don't have jurisdiction. Without the refund policy printed on the receipt, the state law prevails, and refunds must be given within 30 days. Policies regarding refunds must be made clear at the time of purchase, not hidden. And it's as simple as that.

babylon

You don't want a refund, come back to the game in a month or two if the bugs are too horrible for you right now...the game itself is great (the bugs and a few design decisions not so much, but hopefully that can all be worked on).

Sirlex

Sakiri wrote: »

PS: this game doesnt fit "defective".

Some people are entirely unable to get the patcher to work and be able to play - that sounds defective to me. Not sure if he has that issue, but seems possible.

Although you are correct many retailers won't give refunds on opened software - most companies will give refunds to unhappy customers so that things like this aren't all over the forums.

Varivox9

I'm not entirely sure what you tried to get a refund for. It is pretty rare that software refunds are easy to get. ESO or otherwise, I'm not surprised they have something like that.

I tried getting a refund (and succeeded after about 2 months of trying) for X:Rebirth (or X:Afterbirth if you experienced that mess) from Steam. It took forever, multiple examples of clear fraud, etc etc etc, before I got one (which I think the only reason I got a refund was because of my persistance and my boycott of Steam and threat of reporting to BBB ultimatum.).

In the end though, ESO's P2W $20 race, mount, tripledip pricing, and this isn't that surprising. I know I'll be wary of ZO either way.

Uthgaard

Sirlex wrote: »

Although you are correct many retailers won't give refunds on opened software - most companies will give refunds to unhappy customers so that things like this aren't all over the forums.

In my case, I can't connect to the servers without using a VPN, which charges per gigabyte. I've already filed the claim. So it doesn't matter to me who thinks what on this forum. This is primarily for others' information.

sociald100ub17_ESO

Uthgaard wrote: »

Fortunately, internet trolls don't have jurisdiction. Without the refund policy printed on the receipt, the state law prevails, and refunds must be given within 30 days. Policies regarding refunds must be made clear at the time of purchase, not hidden. And it's as simple as that.

There is nothing on that that says 30 days. it says a reasonable amount of time. also it assumes you have a valid reason to return it such as its broken,defective.
If you have something valid fine get a refund but if not well...

Sakiri

Sirlex wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

PS: this game doesnt fit "defective".

Some people are entirely unable to get the patcher to work and be able to play - that sounds defective to me. Not sure if he has that issue, but seems possible.

Although you are correct many retailers won't give refunds on opened software - most companies will give refunds to unhappy customers so that things like this aren't all over the forums.

Thats not defective material.
Software defects are almost exclusively limited to media theyre printed on.

And no, its not going to be on the receipt. If you got it from a third party, THEIR return policy will be. If you got it from ZOS as digital dl, there should have been a link there.

Uthgaard

You seem to be under the mistaken belief that your opinion matters. It's merely a PSA. Have a good night.

felixgamingx1

Lol @ "secret"

Sakiri

Ok then.

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/eula

THIS GAME (DEFINED BELOW) AND RELATED SOFTWARE ARE LICENSED, NOT SOLD TO YOU. BY ACCESSING, USING, OR PLAYING THE GAME OR DOWNLOADING, INSTALLING, COPYING, OR USING ANY SUCH SOFTWARE, YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY ALL OF THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO ALL OF THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT, YOU ARE NOT PERMITTED TO INSTALL, COPY OR USE THE GAME OR ANY RELATED SOFTWARE.

FOR ANY DIGITAL VERSIONS OF THE GAME PURCHASED THROUGH A ZENIMAX WEBSITE: IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO ALL THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT WITHIN FIVE (5) DAYS AFTER YOU HAVE DIGITALLY DOWNLOADED THE GAME, YOU MAY CONTACT ZENIMAX CUSTOMER SERVICE TO REQUEST A FULL REFUND OF THE PURCHASE PRICE FROM ZENIMAX. THIS IS IN ADDITION TO YOUR OTHER CONSUMER RIGHTS IN RELATION TO THE GAME ITSELF.

FOR ANY BOXED VERSION OF THE GAME, OR ANY DIGITALLY DOWNLOADED PURCHASED VERSION OF THE GAME PURCHASED THROUGH A THIRD PARTY WEBSITE: IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO ALL THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AND HAVE NOT INSTALLED THE GAME, YOU SHOULD CONTACT THE THIRD PARTY FROM WHOM YOU OBTAINED THE GAME.

9. Limited Warranty.

If you purchase the boxed product of the Game Client, then ZeniMax warrants to you for 30 days following original retail purchase of the Game that the Software media containing the Game Client shall be free from defects in material and workmanship. In the event that such media proves to be defective during that time period, and upon presentation to ZeniMax of proof of purchase of the defective media, ZeniMax will at its option (a) correct any defect and redeliver the media and Game Client or other software, or (b) refund your money. In the event of such refund, this Agreement will terminate. THE FOREGOING IS YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR THE EXPRESS WARRANTY SET FORTH IN THIS PARAGRAPH UNLESS YOU ARE RESIDENT IN A TERRITORY WHERE ADDITIONAL STATUTORY OBLIGATIONS (AS DEFINED IN THE ZENIMAX TERMS OF SERVICE) APPLY.

I don't call this a "secret no refund policy". You sir, are incapable of reading the agreement you signed.

There's your refund policy.

All I gotta say is "learn to read".

Chirru

OP your post makes no sense whatever.

First...
"Zenimax Online has also gone on record stating that their attorneys do not have telephones or email addresses."
This statement is as likely as a green horse. Please provide a link so as to verify your statement.

Secondly...
"This is to alert anyone who might desire to obtain a refund in the future that Zenimax Online will refuse to issue refunds of your purchase based on a secret policy."

There is a forum post on Reddit. com "ESO/Zenimax Customer Service Experience", where the Poster actually rejoices to have gained a refund.
therefore I conclude that Zenimax actually will not refuse a refund if the reason for the refund is valid within the accepted terms of service.

Uthgaard

Perhaps I should clarify the "secret policy" for those of you with no experience interpreting contracts. Zenimax does claim to have a refund policy, which is known only to customer service, and is not posted anywhere, based upon some obscure formula of hours played or character level, which has still never been disclosed. That is the secret policy.

Sakiri

That's not a secret policy. You have a time period in which you're eligible for a refund. if you passed it, then you're SOL.

If anyone told you otherwise, then they're full of it.

Anyone that got their game for early access is past the 30 day mark. If there are refunds out for them now, it's exceptions rather than rules.

Eraxsin

Uthgaard wrote: »

Sirlex wrote: »

Although you are correct many retailers won't give refunds on opened software - most companies will give refunds to unhappy customers so that things like this aren't all over the forums.

In my case, I can't connect to the servers without using a VPN, which charges per gigabyte. I've already filed the claim. So it doesn't matter to me who thinks what on this forum. This is primarily for others' information.

just wanted to throw it in there: This is the part of the EULA you agreed to. You read this BEFORE you bought the game, right?

4. Limitations and Restrictions.
The Game is a Service offered by ZeniMax and is only playable online. A persistent Internet connection (which is not supplied by ZeniMax) is required to play the Game. The Game Client alone without a persistent Internet connection does not give you the right or ability to play the Game. You are responsible for all costs and expenses associated with acquiring any hardware, software (e.g., Internet browsers) or other products or services required to play the Game.

Varivox9

Uthgaard wrote: »

Perhaps I should clarify the "secret policy" for those of you with no experience interpreting contracts. Zenimax does claim to have a refund policy, which is known only to customer service, and is not posted anywhere, based upon some obscure formula of hours played or character level, which has still never been disclosed. That is the secret policy.

I'm not a legal expert and I normally just hit "accept" when I DL a game....but isn't that pretty much normal? Like with my Steam refund I received earlier, Steam denied my refund initially (several times) on the grounds that I played "too long". I "played" (Stress on the quotes btw) for 10(?) hours. Of those 10 hours, 9.5 were spent redoing the same broken tutorial mission, doing workarounds, etc etc etc. Their "formula" is probably "deny until they give up.". Much like Steam's refund policy....

Uthgaard

Whether you agree with this policy or not, does not change the fact that it is not posted anywhere.

My only question is whether you few are addicted to playing forum warrior all night, or are just neckbeard fanboys?

Varivox9

Uthgaard wrote: »

Whether you agree with this policy or not, does not change the fact that it is not posted anywhere.

My only question is whether you few are just addicted to arguing and need to play forum warrior all night, or are just that struck by fanboyism for the game?

I am all for hating this game (see pretty much every other post I've made), but I'm for doing it for honest reasons. This is, unfortunately, a standard practice in this industry and you did, correct me if I'm wrong, hit "accept" on their TOS agreement. Unless you can find an example of fraud or illintent, I'm afraid I have to side with ZO (as much as it pains me).

Uthgaard

You're mistaken on several points. You don't have any rights you don't know about. By all means, keep being sheep. You can't help those who don't want it.

Dodece

I wonder if the original poster appreciates that this supposed special policy is a universal policy. Every company on the face of the earth sets forth limits. This game is actually a consumable resource. Every second you play the game. You cost the developer money. They have to pay for the time you spent using their service. I know it may come as a shock, but electricity, bandwidth, and the staff required to run, maintain, and improve their services. Aren't in any way free.

What you are effectively arguing for is the right to abuse a privilege. Companies couldn't afford to continue doing business if they had to pay for every case of buyers remorse. Especially after the consumer has drastically depreciated the product that was sold to them. Do you think you can go into a restaurant. Eat most of what is on your plate, and demand a refund, because you didn't really like it.

I can't think of any company that would allow you to mangle a return policy like that. In this case you liked the product enough to keep eating. If it truly wasn't to your liking you should have stopped earlier. While it may be tempting to place all the blame on them. The reality is most of the blame lies with you. If you have to go to extraordinary lengths to use their service. You probably shouldn't have gone to them in the first place.

You made it work on your end, and they probably appreciate that, but it is not the case that they made you go that extra mile. You decided to do that all on your own. You gotta own the responsibility for that. Be honest would you offer anyone the generous terms you are expecting.

Were you to sell someone a car, and they came back three thousand miles later, and demanded a full refund. Would you lie down, and give them that full refund. I seriously doubt you would, and you would be right not to. There is such a thing as common sense. This is the same thing. You used enough of it that you don't have a real justification.

Oogaci

So, let's see the free 30 days is just about up and the OP is seeking a full refund?
LMAO, what hole do these people crawl out from... ?

Nothing to see here, just another person trying to get a free ride!

Singular

Oogaci wrote: »

So, let's see the free 30 days is just about up and the OP is seeking a full refund?
LMAO, what hole do these people crawl out from... ?

Nothing to see here, just another person trying to get a free ride!

Why is everyone calling the first 30 days 'free'?

Did you spend 60 or 80$ because you really just wanted a digital download and new icon on your computer? And, just for kicks, Zenmax tossed in 30 days playtime?

wrlifeboil

It's more like a video rental, now called video on demand. Just because you thought the movie sucked doesn't mean you are entitled to a refund.

But erring on the side of a more lenient refund policy, if you didn't quit by your first week of play, ZOS shouldn't give you a refund.

Uthgaard

Well, I got the refund. You all appear to have confused your opinions on when refunds should be issued, with when the law allows a refund. This is the difference between knowing your rights, and whatever you all are doing. My apologies to all of the forum warriors and trolls out there, who have just become... mad on the internet.

howardsmith43084b14_ESO

Sakiri wrote: »

Ok then.

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/eula

THIS GAME (DEFINED BELOW) AND RELATED SOFTWARE ARE LICENSED, NOT SOLD TO YOU. BY ACCESSING, USING, OR PLAYING THE GAME OR DOWNLOADING, INSTALLING, COPYING, OR USING ANY SUCH SOFTWARE, YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY ALL OF THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO ALL OF THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT, YOU ARE NOT PERMITTED TO INSTALL, COPY OR USE THE GAME OR ANY RELATED SOFTWARE.

FOR ANY DIGITAL VERSIONS OF THE GAME PURCHASED THROUGH A ZENIMAX WEBSITE: IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO ALL THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT WITHIN FIVE (5) DAYS AFTER YOU HAVE DIGITALLY DOWNLOADED THE GAME, YOU MAY CONTACT ZENIMAX CUSTOMER SERVICE TO REQUEST A FULL REFUND OF THE PURCHASE PRICE FROM ZENIMAX. THIS IS IN ADDITION TO YOUR OTHER CONSUMER RIGHTS IN RELATION TO THE GAME ITSELF.

FOR ANY BOXED VERSION OF THE GAME, OR ANY DIGITALLY DOWNLOADED PURCHASED VERSION OF THE GAME PURCHASED THROUGH A THIRD PARTY WEBSITE: IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO ALL THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AND HAVE NOT INSTALLED THE GAME, YOU SHOULD CONTACT THE THIRD PARTY FROM WHOM YOU OBTAINED THE GAME.

9. Limited Warranty.

If you purchase the boxed product of the Game Client, then ZeniMax warrants to you for 30 days following original retail purchase of the Game that the Software media containing the Game Client shall be free from defects in material and workmanship. In the event that such media proves to be defective during that time period, and upon presentation to ZeniMax of proof of purchase of the defective media, ZeniMax will at its option (a) correct any defect and redeliver the media and Game Client or other software, or (b) refund your money. In the event of such refund, this Agreement will terminate. THE FOREGOING IS YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR THE EXPRESS WARRANTY SET FORTH IN THIS PARAGRAPH UNLESS YOU ARE RESIDENT IN A TERRITORY WHERE ADDITIONAL STATUTORY OBLIGATIONS (AS DEFINED IN THE ZENIMAX TERMS OF SERVICE) APPLY.

I don't call this a "secret no refund policy". You sir, are incapable of reading the agreement you signed.

There's your refund policy.

All I gotta say is "learn to read".

The END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT (which is the first paragraph in caps)explains that you have five days after accepting the license agreement (by downloading and using the software) to break the agreement for a full refund. That refund only pertains to the license agreement. The limited warrenty section that follows basically claims refunds (after 5 days of accepting the EULA) are issued only for defects up to a maximum 30 days beyond your purchase date. Unless I'm reading them wrong? Anyhow, I found this insightful. Thanks,