Speechless - Thrown out of the game

Extractor

hiyde wrote: »

Last night, after being in a dungeon for about 5 minutes to collect the skyshard, get the achievement, get a hit in through the wall of bots to kill the boss, I was unceremoniously killed, booted from the game and locked from my character.

To be clear, I've never farmed dungeons, bought or sold gold or run any sort of script - in short, I've done absolutely NOTHING against the game's terms of service in the game.

When I put in a ticket on the matter, I was told to 'wait 15-20 minutes' and try logging in again.

I replied and said that did not work.

Their next action was to refund my purchase and (apparently) delete my account. I did not request a refund, deletion, threaten to quit or anything of the kind. My only communication was a) frustration and b) wanting my account unlocked.

I am a 10+ year MMO player and leader of a large multigame guild who's never received an infraction, boot, ban of any kind in any game.

UNBELIEVABLE. PLAYERS BEWARE.

If this is the case, I should use my last 5 days to go in and bot, get booted, get my money back and go jump for joy!

Tieberion

they need to fix the dungeons with code. One loot per boss per run. Or put each dungeon boss on a 12-24 hour timer.

Phinix1

Tieberion wrote: »

Why is everyone so omg you did it? There are people that get caught up in these sweeps- look at the big cluster that happened with the mass account ban. All you guys want to do is jump on a bandwagon of lets get him, when he's still going back and forth with ZOS and none of the entry lvl GM's has escalated his tickets, nor called him back. I can get over 4000 people from 8 different MMO's to vouch that he is Mr. by the books, and wont even let people who cheat/exploit in/boots them from any/all games we've been in over the years.

Sorry if someone saying they need EVIDENCE to assign blame bothers you man, but there it is. No one is trying to "get him," in fact I don't really care either way. It isn't going to stop them from cracking down on the script kiddies botting and exploiting this game and I am glad of it.

What I am trying to say if you calm down and read it rationally instead of playing Johnny Noble and coming to the hero's defense, is that it is EXTREMELY unlikely his account would have not only been bumped during a bot sweep, but then subsequently deleted upon review, unless there was compelling evidence.

Again, I have many guild mates that have been caught in these bot sweeps you are talking about, mostly for sitting there by the boss reporting bots one at a time. In every single case, their activities were reviewed by a support team and they were back in-game the same day.

Something more is going on here, and the louder people pretend to take offense at the rational skepticism in the absence of evidence, the more suspicious it looks.

But lets allow ZOS and the person in question sort it out. Trying to rally against the company on the public forums is another sign to me this is some sort of retaliation against a legitimate ban, and acomplishes nothing to help the OP.

Tieberion

No one's trying to rally, though we could. It's about getting a ticket escalated and looked at, IN THE FORUMS ONLY, rather than going public as others have done to get their tickets escalated, ie Reddit, Twitter, Facebook, etc.

RedTalon

Given there are a few other threads about people getting caught up in bot sweeps and being innocent, surprises me people are thinking the worse.

This isn't the dupe bug, just a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time it happens more often then you see threads and normally gets resolved.

Tieberion

That's what everyone is hoping. Just called him and asked to post/tell me his add on list. Seems ZOS is banning people w/o notice for some add ons, without first posting about them in game, load screens, etc:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/90583/why-arent-you-addressing-that-most-of-the-botting-is-occurring-due-to-game-scripting-for-addons#latest

hiyde

Here's a sample of me being

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

In your "irate" and "frustrated" response, just what did you say?

I could easily see them catching you up in a ban. Happened to a lot of people I'm sure when they're banning this many people.

The part that stretches credulity is the fact that they just told you to long in in 20 minutes, then went ahead and deleted your account. That part is where I have to wonder, uh... just what did he say in his communication with them?

Stuff like this:

When I read that you had GM's taking out botters in the dungeons I cheered. But if you're going to do that, you need to learn the difference between real players and gold farmers/botters.
Gold farmers typically do not lead guilds. Gold farmers have very recognizable account behaviors of which I exhibit NONE of.

In 10+ years of playing MMOs I have never gotten a ban, boot, or infraction of ANY kind.

SirAndy

My guess would be that a GM was cleaning that dungeon while you were in there and you didn't see their request to whisper them.

They ask for anyone who isn't a bot to respond within a certain time. If you missed that, you got booted with the rest of the bots ...
;-)

Auric_ESO

You might want to read that post a lot more carefully it's not about people getting banned for using addons. It's about a person thinking the addon API is being used by hackers/botters to bot. And scripting and addons are two way different things

Phinix1

You guys are still missing the point. This is a two step process.

1) Someone is caught in the bot sweep, and kicked out of the game with a temporary suspension. This HAS happened to a lot of people.

2) A temporary suspension is reviewed by support staff and evidence found that the reasons were legitimate, and the account is permanently banned.

It is extremely unlikely that a temporary suspension would be escalated to a permanent ban without compelling evidence. That is all I am saying. I could describe to you in great technical detail the software they use to play back a generated movie of your character's actions, which allows them to be absolutely certain of any exploits before taking action.

I would however be very interested to hear what add-ons you believe are getting people banned. A ZOS rep has already posted that the FOV addon was not considered an exploit, and I can't find anything related to botting on ESOUI.

My guess would be they are using a resource tracking addon like HarvestMap and the coordinates addon to pinpoint target information, but the software that actually does the botting is 100% 3rd party.

If you understand how coding works, the functions to exploit would have to be exposed to the LUA engine for them to make use of, which would be incredibly stupid and is simply not the case from what I've seen in the documentation of their implementation.

AlliN

You were sacrificed on the altar of hope. If you are the ~0.1%, and you got your refund - It's infuriating and it's reasonable you can be mad, but, well, your blood will fuel the fire that is ment to burn botters.

Also, it's a good tip, that if you cheat and bot in that game, you'll get your money back. This is not exactly a good thing.

Reymas

The thing that baffles me about this and makes no sense is the refund. If they are in fact refunding bot accounts they are just feeding the gold-farm machine and creating temporary set-backs and not losses for them.

If you violate TOS and get yourself permanently banned you should not be refunded.

They should NOT be refunding bot accounts or suspected bot accounts. Also probably not a good idea to outright delete them since the more bot accounts there are the more bot names are taken. Just lock them down and move on.

aragornis

It is sooo HARD to miss whisper request in this game where its harder to notice whisper then complete dungeon!!!

Auric_ESO

Thanks aliend. Your post said it better

ijRoberts

I'm also willing to bet that whoever was handling the "try again in 15 minutes" and the automatic program that was issuing the bans/refunds weren't on the same page.

The "try again" person was probably just issuing a blanket suggestion by speed reading your ticket and saw "can't log in".

GossiTheDog

There's already various forum posts about people being refunded in error - they didn't even ask for refunds, their account status just changed to refunded and the game has gone from their accounts.

Sakiri

Ur-Quan wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

I also doubt they are refunding cancelled botting/exploit accounts.

Actually I wouldn't be surprised if they are. Apparently in some countries (in Europe IIRC) even if the TOS explicitly says what behavior will result in you getting permabanned and result in forfeiture of the money you've spent on your account, it doesn't matter and the consumer protection laws still make you entitled to a refund. I wouldn't be surprised if ZOS doesn't want to risk lawsuits and is just refunding everyone they ban to stay out of any potential legal trouble.

That and a lot of bot accounts are paid for by stolen cards.

Moonraker

I can sympathise that some get caught up in bot bans in dungeons as it is done my human GM and mistakes can happen.

However, each time when someone posts on their ban or infraction, they post direct to the forum which usually ends in misunderstandings and accusations either way. Even when it's clearly against the Community Rules - Discussing Disciplinary Actions to do so. Then, quite often, the ones that shout loudest get a CM response which seems to defeat the point of having quite sensible rules on this.

Surely the best way is like @Daverios posted and use the channels available to those in this predicament.

AryaWythers

Auric_ESO wrote: »

You sure theres not a lot more to the story than that. It's not like a company, any company, to act like that. Maybe a gamemaster was there banning bots and you didn't hear or see the whisper about if you don't move you're gonna get marked as a bot? And the straight to refund and delete would be unusual. Possible but odd. Usually there is some kind of discussion involved.

Usually when I read a forum post like this it's because someone is mad and wants sympathy so leaves a lot of the story out. If I'm wrong this time I'm sorry. Probably aren't though

The game has already admitted to unreasonably banning people many times already, but I guess it is easier to just blame everyone with problems with the game instead of actually reading the companies own word...NICE!

WanderingNat

I know that you all think there must be more to the story. I can vouch 100% for Hiyde. In addition, one of our guildmates was hacked and everything taken from his account. ESO got back to him today after 3 weeks and said that because his password was compromised, they are doing nothing about it. He's out of luck too. The customer service here is atrocious.

Phinix1

AryaWythers wrote: »

The game has already admitted to unreasonably banning people many times already, but I guess it is easier to just blame everyone with problems with the game instead of actually reading the companies own word...NICE!

Link or it didn't happen.

"Those who draw conclusions without evidence have no case."

Sakiri

SirAndy wrote: »

My guess would be that a GM was cleaning that dungeon while you were in there and you didn't see their request to whisper them.

They ask for anyone who isn't a bot to respond within a certain time. If you missed that, you got booted with the rest of the bots ...
;-)

I often miss whispers when zone chat and guild chat really get active and whispers dont have a notification sound that Im aware of. In wow I use a chat addon that makes a distinct sound when I get whispers, as the default there is too quiet.

Due to the nature of combat, I often dont see chat when Im fighting either.

So ban me for being a bot I guess?

Tieberion

Yeah unfort do the game right now (# of tickets do to being a new mmo/reporting gold farmers) it's hard to get a ticket, especially one when something like this has happened, answered quickly. Did find other people posting in major outlets about similar things, being banned w/o in game notice, missing a whisper from a GM etc do to the chat function, and they have been re-instated even though they had also received refunds. Not sure on why that is, is the ZOS billing handled over seas with different laws?

Evergnar

GossiTheDog wrote: »

There's already various forum posts about people being refunded in error - they didn't even ask for refunds, their account status just changed to refunded and the game has gone from their accounts.

^^This. It's well documented in these forums.

Asava

Reymas wrote: »

The thing that baffles me about this and makes no sense is the refund. If they are in fact refunding bot accounts they are just feeding the gold-farm machine and creating temporary set-backs and not losses for them.

If you violate TOS and get yourself permanently banned you should not be refunded.

They should NOT be refunding bot accounts or suspected bot accounts. Also probably not a good idea to outright delete them since the more bot accounts there are the more bot names are taken. Just lock them down and move on.

It's because EU antitrust laws have no problem suing companies for multimillion dollar antitrust violations. Just ask Apple, Intel, and Microsoft.

Auric_ESO

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

AryaWythers wrote: »

The game has already admitted to unreasonably banning people many times already, but I guess it is easier to just blame everyone with problems with the game instead of actually reading the companies own word...NICE!

Link or it didn't happen.

"Those who draw conclusions without evidence have no case."

They did on the first round of bot smashing that some people were caught up in it inadvertently. Note I am replying to you and in no way replying to the person you are quoting.

AryaWythers

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

AryaWythers wrote: »

The game has already admitted to unreasonably banning people many times already, but I guess it is easier to just blame everyone with problems with the game instead of actually reading the companies own word...NICE!

Link or it didn't happen.

"Those who draw conclusions without evidence have no case."

There is just one of the posts...but wont do your homework for you in future (there are others out there also)
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/85974/state-of-the-game-address/p1

P.S. Looks like I'm not the one with no case...just those who accused this person with out any real facts. Keep up the good work trying to dis-credit any one with real issues though

Jadeviper1974

gamebouncerb16_ESO wrote: »

ummm .. wow! At least now we know what they are doing to bot accounts (not saying you are). Sounds like you just experienced how they are handling things, but got caught in the crossfire. I'm sure they can get you re-instated, but I can also imagine how peeved you are as well

I hope this isn't how they are combating botters, because they refunded the money for the game, which means they have the money to purchase another game and start botting again.

GossiTheDog

I actually have a tab called 'quiet' which turns off all chat, as a lot of the chat is stupid vampire vs werewolf twilight stuff.

And the head of ZOS came on these forums and apologised to all the people banned in error last week, as did the Community Manager. I believe there's been 3 rounds of invalid banning and now character locks from GMs, and the mis-refund issue which has started.

Sakiri

WanderingNat wrote: »

I know that you all think there must be more to the story. I can vouch 100% for Hiyde. In addition, one of our guildmates was hacked and everything taken from his account. ESO got back to him today after 3 weeks and said that because his password was compromised, they are doing nothing about it. He's out of luck too. The customer service here is atrocious.

The crap?