Diminishing Returns on loot do not hurt bots, only legitimate players

OzzyNOR

It's so fun...say I want one, nay two of those blue 1-h sword I know the Boss in the Creepy Squirrels Dungeon drops for my new dual-wielding deathmachine. I go in and get my first kill, but I only get white drops, potions, and a soul gem. Ok, not too bad, better luck next time. Next kill; Nothing, then nothing, then nothing, then nothing, then nothing for 10 minutes. Alright 10 minutes gone by, I get the kill and... white drops, potions, and a soul gem. Ok, new tactic, change it up by killing other mobs in the dungeon for 10 min, awesome, I got some green drops that I don't need. After 10 minutes I'm back at the boss spawn ready to wreak some havoc, get the kill...and get white drops, potions, and a soul gem. Bye, bye...

Sure, a timer is fine. 10 minutes global timer however is just plain idiotic, especially when, the minor dungeon bosses are likely to spawn several times in that timeframe, which will lead to frustrated players just having to watch. Make the loot system of the bosses better, not remove the ability to get anything at all from them(no, I don't count the measly 5 coins as a reward)

I've played MMO's for about 14 years, and I've never said these words on a game-forum before; "Account cancelled". I might renew it again soon as I enjoy many aspects of this game, but this, and other actions, leads me to question if the developers actually know what they're doing. This latest "update" seemed rushed and not well thought through. Panic...
Game hasn't been out long, so I hope things get better.

Enundr

Ozzy , this was the first time ive ever made a post about it too , most mmos i just meh and leave ....i love this game i really do , but i dont see the point in paying to deal with not getting loot due to some stupid lockout timer.....Guild Wars 2 already screws with the players in regards to loot , atleast i dont have to pay money there to get screwed like this.....this game cannot survive doing this kind of crap.....not unless its ready to go to a free to play model.

Flashy_Senap

Theos_Demarca wrote: »

FYI for those of you who are complaining this doesn't help the bot problem is only hurts the farmer .... Well ever think that prehaps you are a problem too? Cause that's the way I see it.....

No. A player who sits in front of his character and actively farms these bosses are playing the game to their liking. They neither cheat, exploit or cause much fuss for other legitimate players.

For normal players I really dont see the issue in this... I have in the past farmed bosses while i waited on freinds to get on ( yes i do level with a group *Gasp*) and even then I realized how broken the system was ... MMOs are not designed so you can afk farm a single location every 2-3min for a ton of loot. Even games that revolved around camp killing for leveling or loot ( UO , EQ , DAOC , SB etc.... ) didn't give the loot per mob that a solo dungeon boss in this game gives.

There is no definition towards whats normal. I love farming, its my normal go to activity when all else bores me, keeps me engage and in the game. Especially when questing has become more of a boring chore than a fun activity.

I played Ultima Online and sure there was a fair amount of farming (i spent days farming when I played that game, still the best MMO ever!) It wasn't for mats in the same way as it is in this game. Here it's one of the main and almost only efficient methods to progress in crafting.

So you cry there is no easy way for you to get loot to dissemble... As is as 3 items per boss kill no .... But here is an idea go out quest , see a solo dungeon by your quest do it , then Precede to to the next quest area doing delves and anchors and overworld bosses along the way... I think you will be surprised how much stuff normal monsters give you over time.... Hell if you don't like questing that's fine , Go AOE farm normal mobs you will get the same result.

In my case I'm forced to a play style I'm bored with that holds no interest for me at all times. I've been questing gathered mats that way. it's perhaps a tenth of what I would earn if farming the way I wanted. And I still have issues progressing in my crafts, it's hard and now they make it even harder.

Now you Want gold? Run a group dungeon get a purple drop sell for the appropriate price.... 37 purples have been selling around 1.5k a pop the 43s around 2k each as long as you have a decent group the non vet dungeons are ez and profitable

But what about those who doesn't have a proper group?
What about those who just wanna do casual farming . It might be a silly play style for you, I agree it's silly but I see why people might enjoy it.
Why should we be forced to play in a certain way just because others don't wish to play it that way?

Lkory

Enundr wrote: »

Ozzy , this was the first time ive ever made a post about it too , most mmos i just meh and leave ....i love this game i really do , but i dont see the point in paying to deal with not getting loot due to some stupid lockout timer.....Guild Wars 2 already screws with the players in regards to loot , atleast i dont have to pay money there to get screwed like this.....this game cannot survive doing this kind of crap.....not unless its ready to go to a free to play model.

Loot timer is the first step to F2P....they can introduce a token, bought with real money, to shorten the loot timer now! :P

Enundr

Lkory wrote: »

Enundr wrote: »

Ozzy , this was the first time ive ever made a post about it too , most mmos i just meh and leave ....i love this game i really do , but i dont see the point in paying to deal with not getting loot due to some stupid lockout timer.....Guild Wars 2 already screws with the players in regards to loot , atleast i dont have to pay money there to get screwed like this.....this game cannot survive doing this kind of crap.....not unless its ready to go to a free to play model.

Loot timer is the first step to F2P....they can introduce a token, bought with real money, to shorten the loot timer now! :P

that one made me laugh so hard , but really they need to rethink the decision made here , the people that wanted this , are people expecting a single player ES game , not an mmo......this hurts the game as an mmo and the expectations of the ones that wanted this are more for single player / coop ES , which will NOT function here for too long , especially when some of these people get to veteran content and realize if your not playing oneo f the god mode (term used loosely ) specs , aka vamp DK , and then theres the templar build.....really hoping they reverse this , i will gladly resub if they do.

karstenb16_ESO7

Typical "solo" dungeon experience:

1. Enter
2. Immediately see at least 2 more players in the "solo" dungeon.
3. Run through half the dungeon. There are no mobs, they're all dead, killed by the people who zoned in 30-60 seconds before you.
4. Come to the place where the boss spawns. Noticable because there is always someone waiting for the boss, even after the loot mechanic change.
5. Boss spawns, kill in 5 seconds thanks to at least 4 people killing him.
6. Loot a soul gem.
7. Leave dungeon

Seriously, it's pointless the way it is.

Just close down those dungeons and go back to the drawing board. Come back when you have an idea how to make proper use of them. Currently they are just stupid and it boggles my mind seeing how all that graphics art and story telling that has been spent on those places is wasted. Each and every dungeon must have costed hundreds of developer and artist hours. And as a player you just run through in under a minute and never come back. And you don't even have a good time doing it, it leaves a sour taste in everyone's mouth, every single time.

Isn't that ridiculous?

Ulferus

karstenb16_ESO7 wrote: »

Typical "solo" dungeon experience:

1. Enter
2. Immediately see at least 2 more players in the "solo" dungeon.
3. Run through half the dungeon. There are no mobs, they're all dead, killed by the people who zoned in 30-60 seconds before you.
4. Come to the place where the boss spawns. Noticable because there is always someone waiting for the boss, even after the loot mechanic change.
5. Boss spawns, kill in 5 seconds thanks to at least 4 people killing him.
6. Loot a soul gem.
7. Leave dungeon

Seriously, it's pointless the way it is.

Just close down those dungeons and go back to the drawing board. Come back when you have an idea how to make proper use of them. Currently they are just stupid and it boggles my mind seeing how all that graphics art and story telling that has been spent on those places is wasted. Each and every dungeon must have costed hundreds of developer and artist hours. And as a player you just run through in under a minute and never come back. And you don't even have a good time doing it, it leaves a sour taste in everyone's mouth, every single time.

Isn't that ridiculous?

[snip] there is a few dungeons which are modified per map.
Same with maps when u finished it u wont come bac there simple but true. So ur sugestion and thoughts are incorrect.

Whole idea about time u can loot boss or AOE skills is wrong. U claimed that everybody can play whatever style he/she prefer. Now u are changing rules.

Very bad move - Cant make AOE - because u changed it to 5 targets.
Cant loot bosses for blue items because u made it 10 min to get loot again.
What will be next ? 1 Dungeon per 24h?

I will propably go from here with many players because stupid changes.

subecsanur

This reward issue gets worst in VR zones, they need to fix his fast it is getting old.

Turkeysammich

started a petition, no idea if it'll work though

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/93403/petition-to-remove-diminishing-returns-on-loot?new=1

Maotti

I wonder what's next up to get a nerf! One crafting node per 24 hours?

This is very bad for the game.

robdotcom2002pub19_ESO

This is game breaking for me. An mmo with no loots leaves nothing to do to pass the time.

ShedsHisTail

TalonVector wrote: »

Ok this is an mmo, and u all that don't understand that, let me let u in on what mmoers do..... They Farm. That's just 1 of the things that makes mmos fun, it takes time but can b enjoyable but DR screws that to the wall.

F the dang bots u will never get rid of them completely its just how it goes in mmos we DONT need some more GW2 B FREAKIN S in this game.

I have dealt with the irritating bugs, and the duplicating bs but... BUT! Not some DR crap put this in the game and peace no more sub from me.

P.S. No u cant have my stuff its getting deleted, and the only reason u would ask for my stuff is cause u cant farm your own cause of crapy DR.

You will be missed?

DogeRobert

Flashy_Senap wrote: »

No. A player who sits in front of his character and actively farms these bosses are playing the game to their liking. They neither cheat, exploit or cause much fuss for other legitimate players.

I'll agree that it's not a cheat and that it might not be an exploit (That's for the developer to decide not us)..

But when I make my way through a dungeon to the boss spawn and find 4+ (depending on solo or public) people camping that point, then it matters not the least whether any given camper is a bot or a live player.. It sure as hill causes fuss for me.. And judging from both chat and forum comments, I'm not alone in this..

Part of the fun of a dungeon (for me) is fighting the boss and I enjoy when it's a challenge.
So the very fact that there are campers present is detrimental to my enjoyment of the game..
Hence, it causes a fuss for me.

And no, I'm not saying I don't want other people present. I'm saying I don't want campers present.
There is a vast difference. I often, if not commonly, group up with others both in and outside of dungeons and it's a lot of fun..
That is an entirely different thing than getting to the boss and seeing four or more people repeatedly downing him..

(Though happily that happens much less after the change, which I wholeheartedly approve of, personally..)

But.. I agree completely that it's a matter of play-style and that while my personal opinion differs from yours, this does not disallow you from having said differing opinion..
Likewise, I do not claim that my way of playing is better than your way of playing or that you do not have the right to play your way. (Though I would like for your way to make less of an impact on mine)

Just please don't claim that camping / farming doesn't cause a fuss for others. It does.


On a note, that may be the only thing that makes 'my' way of playing slightly 'better' than 'your' way.
(I dislike calling it 'better' really. Maybe 'more friendly to others' is the right term)

Farming is seen as detrimental to the enjoyment of others by many players, who dislike meeting campers/farmers in dungeons or anywhere else for that matter, since it prevents them from experiencing the boss-fights in a challenging manner or derives from their immersion in the game.

I have yet to hear anyone claim that a player, who never farms but simply runs quests, dungeons, etc. in an 'ordinary' fashion. (e.g. doing the dungeon once and then moving on) is in some way detrimental to the enjoyment of a farming/camping player.

That said, I still don't claim to be somehow morally superior to you..

ChairGraveyard

DogeRobert wrote: »

Flashy_Senap wrote: »

No. A player who sits in front of his character and actively farms these bosses are playing the game to their liking. They neither cheat, exploit or cause much fuss for other legitimate players.

I'll agree that it's not a cheat and that it might not be an exploit (That's for the developer to decide not us)..

But when I make my way through a dungeon to the boss spawn and find 4+ (depending on solo or public) people camping that point, then it matters not the least whether any given camper is a bot or a live player.. It sure as hill causes fuss for me.. And judging from both chat and forum comments, I'm not alone in this..

Part of the fun of a dungeon (for me) is fighting the boss and I enjoy when it's a challenge.
So the very fact that there are campers present is detrimental to my enjoyment of the game..
Hence, it causes a fuss for me.

And no, I'm not saying I don't want other people present. I'm saying I don't want campers present.
There is a vast difference. I often, if not commonly, group up with others both in and outside of dungeons and it's a lot of fun..
That is an entirely different thing than getting to the boss and seeing four or more people repeatedly downing him..

(Though happily that happens much less after the change, which I wholeheartedly approve of, personally..)

But.. I agree completely that it's a matter of play-style and that while my personal opinion differs from yours, this does not disallow you from having said differing opinion..
Likewise, I do not claim that my way of playing is better than your way of playing or that you do not have the right to play your way. (Though I would like for your way to make less of an impact on mine)

Just please don't claim that camping / farming doesn't cause a fuss for others. It does.


On a note, that may be the only thing that makes 'my' way of playing slightly 'better' than 'your' way.
(I dislike calling it 'better' really. Maybe 'more friendly to others' is the right term)

Farming is seen as detrimental to the enjoyment of others by many players, who dislike meeting campers/farmers in dungeons or anywhere else for that matter, since it prevents them from experiencing the boss-fights in a challenging manner or derives from their immersion in the game.

I have yet to hear anyone claim that a player, who never farms but simply runs quests, dungeons, etc. in an 'ordinary' fashion. (e.g. doing the dungeon once and then moving on) is in some way detrimental to the enjoyment of a farming/camping player.

That said, I still don't claim to be somehow morally superior to you..

No one is arguing that people camping inconveniences others - it sure does. But that's because the bosses are static and designed to be fought by a small number of players.

If they scaled at all, to the point where it was still a decent fight for 4-8 or more people, the issue would go away because everyone would get hit credit, even with many players.

Boom, no issue.

As it is though, it's a global lockout timer, so if the dungeon has 3 bosses, you get loot from 1 unless you wait out the timer. That's stupid as hell. There are better fixes, and a global lockout timer, or any sort of timer, is not one of them.

DogeRobert

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

No one is arguing that people camping inconveniences others - it sure does. But that's because the bosses are static and designed to be fought by a small number of players.

If they scaled at all, to the point where it was still a decent fight for 4-8 or more people, the issue would go away because everyone would get hit credit, even with many players.

Boom, no issue.

As it is though, it's a global lockout timer, so if the dungeon has 3 bosses, you get loot from 1 unless you wait out the timer. That's stupid as hell. There are better fixes, and a global lockout timer, or any sort of timer, is not one of them.

Actually, the poster I quoted claimed that campers did not inconvenience others.. Which was what prompted me to reply in the first place.

Apart from that, I agree with everything you said, with one adjustment.

Scaling the difficulty would make all players able to participate in a boss-fight, I agree.
But it would not do anything for the break in immersion from entering the final hall and meeting the campers.
(Incidentally, scaling would not necessarily make them (or the bots) go away, unless the scaled fights became vastly more difficult than at present.)

So for the mechanics you're right.. But I'd like my boss fights (and my general experience) to be immersive. Something that campers (and botters) wreck on a regular basis. But that may just be me..