REQUEST : Vampire balancing

ThyIronFist

DitsyGirl wrote: »

If anything its dragon knight reflective scales ability that needs nerfed. Not Vampire.

uwot

nickackub17_ESO

bugulu wrote: »

DitsyGirl wrote: »

If anything its dragon knight reflective scales ability that needs nerfed. Not Vampire.

Finally.

I don't want to see vampires nerfed, I am a vampire myself and feel that the skill tree is balanced.
What I do want to see balanced is the spell reduction stacking on ultimates.

Without DK/Sorcerers able to spam the ultimate, that dude would have just been a major meatshield that can still dish out damage (but that damage you would be able to heal through).

A softcap on spell reduction costs on ultimates would be a fine thing to add.

Ya a soft cap on spell reduction would be fine but it would be nice if vamps could keep there 60% passive just make it so you cant add on top of that like you can atm and i really seen no need to nerf scales it only last 4 seconds besides we need somthing to reflect Silverbolts

Daverios

The allure to be a Vamp is too great. Needs higher penalties.

Seriously feels lile Twilight in ESO.

Make it niche or fun to do every once in awhile like WW

Morbus2

Artemys_Knight wrote: »

I've 2shotted many vampires in PvP 1v1 with the Fighter's Guild skill line. When i PvP, I equip abilities from there to counter the vamp bandwagon, and they don't see it coming.

Imagine that. Someone who knows how to take down a vampire.

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO

I'd rather see them nerf the lag.

So that you can actually use your abilities. To fight things. Like vampires.

Desdemonte

FFS this is starting to *** me off. It ISN'T the Vamp skills that are OP. It is the combination of DK and Vamp! I wish people would edumacate themselves before spouting off misinformation. A vamp cannot heal in Mistform, so they can't stay there. It is a combo of Talons, Standard, Dragonblood and the Vamp Ult that is OP. IF you were to look, you'd see that DKs don't go into Mistform when they are pulling off this move!

Vamps dont need to be nerffed. DKs do, but the most important thing that needs fixing is to not be able to generate Ultimate points while you are channeling an Ultimate, and when an Ultimate is used, it should reset your Ult points to zero. Simple and logical fix. Plus the fact that tumble radius in 8 meters and Talons radius is 8 meters means you cannot tumble away to save yourself. This needs to be fixed as well.

Also important is for people to not all sit on top of them damn selves in a zerg.

nickroc

ya but we have to relog every 30 seconds if we actually want to get our passives

Xael

Artemys_Knight wrote: »

I've 2shotted many vampires in PvP 1v1 with the Fighter's Guild skill line. When i PvP, I equip abilities from there to counter the vamp bandwagon, and they don't see it coming.

@Artemys_Knight‌ You have to realize you are trying to reason with complete idiots. They whine and complain nonstop about this skill or that skill when they have not a f'king clue how to play this game. I have seen nonstop posts of supposed "op" videos and just about all the footage captured showed noobs being noobs. Most of these idiots have 0 map awareness and little concept on how certain skills work. Instead of learning how to play, they cry foul and ask for nerfs. I hate these idiots as much as china farmers, they are like a cancer in mmos and usually the catalyst for the dumbing down of video games because "gaem too haRd"

Zolyok

They must find a solution to balance this issue.

RaZaddha

Daverios wrote: »

The allure to be a Vamp is too great. Needs higher penalties.

Seriously feels lile Twilight in ESO.

Make it niche or fun to do every once in awhile like WW

What? This isn't The Wolderful World of Twilight? I thought it was when I saw everyone hitting these vampires with the wet Silver Noodles that made them gigle we were having fun!
It's not our job to theorycraft a solution to this, it's ZOS job to make sure our experience doesn't get ruined by immortal vampires jumping every zerg.

bugulu

Xael wrote: »

Artemys_Knight wrote: »

I've 2shotted many vampires in PvP 1v1 with the Fighter's Guild skill line. When i PvP, I equip abilities from there to counter the vamp bandwagon, and they don't see it coming.

@Artemys_Knight‌ You have to realize you are trying to reason with complete idiots. They whine and complain nonstop about this skill or that skill when they have not a f'king clue how to play this game. I have seen nonstop posts of supposed "op" videos and just about all the footage captured showed noobs being noobs. Most of these idiots have 0 map awareness and little concept on how certain skills work. Instead of learning how to play, they cry foul and ask for nerfs. I hate these idiots as much as china farmers, they are like a cancer in mmos and usually the catalyst for the dumbing down of video games because "gaem too haRd"

I find it funny that you call other people for idiots when you display the same lack of intellect.
You can't two shot vampires. Artemys probably fought off some level 40 vampire thinking that's how it works on everyone. Silver Shards don't work on a Vampire already obliterating a zerg.

Want a hint? Reflective Scales, Retreating Maneuver, Elusive Mist, Defensive Stance and Battle Roar.
Put them together. It shouldn't be too hard to see the combination then.
That combination gives the DK the survival it needs to wait for Burning Talons and Devouring Swarm to finish the enemies off.

I don't think vampires are the issue here. Remove the ultimate spell cost stacking and the issue would be resolved. An ultimate is after all an ultimate and not a simple spell.

htoncic

The fact that it's an ultimate simply means that it uses ultimate points and not stamina or magicka, not that it shouldn't be spammable. And let's not mess with cost reduction because that's the whole point of the vamp passive and the gear sets. Bat Swarm would be a terrible ult if you could only cast it for it's normal cost. Like many have pointed out, it's not any single ability that makes this build effective, it's a combination of a lot of things. Slight tweaking across all of them is the correct way to approach this.

Loxy37

Crowtac wrote: »

Greatly increase the cost of bat swarm and increase the cost of using mist form, make vamps take even more damage from fire based attacks should solve the problem.

Do not punish pve players because the PvP crowd start crying. Simply disable vamps in PvP, problem solved. If they nerf because of PvP then a lot will leave.

Kenny_McCormick

Loxy37 wrote: »

Crowtac wrote: »

Greatly increase the cost of bat swarm and increase the cost of using mist form, make vamps take even more damage from fire based attacks should solve the problem.

Do not punish pve players because the PvP crowd start crying. Simply disable vamps in PvP, problem solved. If they nerf because of PvP then a lot will leave.

if they disable vamps...they misewell disable werewolves in PVP aswell.....i mean if u cant have ONE unnatural form then u cant have both right?

shazam0527

Yeah if this doesn't get fixed, it's gonna be a PVP killer.. People will leave in droves over this ***.

SilverWF wrote: »

They just need to completely remove vampire Ultimate from PVP. For PVE it's OK, but not for PVP!
Also, I'll leave this here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxBlMayv12M

Holycannoli

htoncic wrote: »

The fact that it's an ultimate simply means that it uses ultimate points and not stamina or magicka, not that it shouldn't be spammable. And let's not mess with cost reduction because that's the whole point of the vamp passive and the gear sets. Bat Swarm would be a terrible ult if you could only cast it for it's normal cost. Like many have pointed out, it's not any single ability that makes this build effective, it's a combination of a lot of things. Slight tweaking across all of them is the correct way to approach this.

But it shouldn't be spammable. No ultimate should be. I can guarantee you it was not intended for bat swarm to be spammable.

Either a cap on ultimate reduction or a cooldown between ultimate activations is needed, and then mist form needs to be fixed so no heals whatsoever work with it.

AlliN

I don't want to see vampires nerfed, I am a vampire myself and feel that the skill tree is balanced.

Thank You for a good laugh. "Your Honour, although I gained possesion of the formentioned item by entering at night time to this presented property, I, myself would not consider this a theft - I would name that as a simple movement of objets in space, that I was, incidentally, just a close witness."

Thevenin

I don't even understand how such bad design made it past alpha, let alone beta.

I really thinks it proves the game designers don't play their own game and don't give a rat's ass about player feedback, this is a bad omen.
The issues with all these skills : mist form, bats, standard of might, broken talon, reflective scales, bolt escape, bash, impulse, ult reduction stacking, bash damage stacking, etc. were reported countless times during closed beta.
And they fine-tuned some small stuff like the ramping up of some abilities through ranks I to IV, while leaving half a dozen game-breaking skills that must already have driven tens of thousands of players from the game. If I hadn't come here with a guild from another game and had simply tried it on my own to see what it was worth, I'd have already canceled my subscribtion after a 60-minute run through Cyrodiil.

Noobie

Artemys_Knight wrote: »

I've 2shotted many vampires in PvP 1v1 with the Fighter's Guild skill line. When i PvP, I equip abilities from there to counter the vamp bandwagon, and they don't see it coming.

what were they level 10? No way silver bolts 1 shots any 40+ vamp player

Artemys_Knight

bugulu wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Artemys_Knight wrote: »

I've 2shotted many vampires in PvP 1v1 with the Fighter's Guild skill line. When i PvP, I equip abilities from there to counter the vamp bandwagon, and they don't see it coming.

@Artemys_Knight‌ You have to realize you are trying to reason with complete idiots. They whine and complain nonstop about this skill or that skill when they have not a f'king clue how to play this game. I have seen nonstop posts of supposed "op" videos and just about all the footage captured showed noobs being noobs. Most of these idiots have 0 map awareness and little concept on how certain skills work. Instead of learning how to play, they cry foul and ask for nerfs. I hate these idiots as much as china farmers, they are like a cancer in mmos and usually the catalyst for the dumbing down of video games because "gaem too haRd"

I find it funny that you call other people for idiots when you display the same lack of intellect.
You can't two shot vampires. Artemys probably fought off some level 40 vampire thinking that's how it works on everyone. Silver Shards don't work on a Vampire already obliterating a zerg.

Want a hint? Reflective Scales, Retreating Maneuver, Elusive Mist, Defensive Stance and Battle Roar.
Put them together. It shouldn't be too hard to see the combination then.
That combination gives the DK the survival it needs to wait for Burning Talons and Devouring Swarm to finish the enemies off.

I don't think vampires are the issue here. Remove the ultimate spell cost stacking and the issue would be resolved. An ultimate is after all an ultimate and not a simple spell.

Very similar to what I do, and you *can* 2 shot vampires, it's just not common, I'll admit I exaggerated a bit but I have had instances back to back where it procs twice in a row effectively 2-shotting them (That's 4040 damage). Reflective Scales and Absorc Magic in my 1h skill line is killer when I face them. The vampires I've fought range from 40-Vet10, highest I've bursted down is a Vet 5 though. Some vampires know they're builds well others think they're invincible and drop so fast.

Vizjun

Okay, I've read so many misleading informations about this ultimate.

VR10 Vampire Sorc here, 103% ultimate cost reduction. I've read so many bulls**t about this build, you just don't understand at all what's happening, so let me explain.

NO, we can't heal during Mist Form. We just can't, PERIOD. If you see a player spamming Bat Swarm and you can't target this player, it's normal. The morph is called "Clouding Swarm", it makes you invisible 1sec EVERY time you hit an enemy player. Mage Light can't detect the player and you won't be able to target this player (unless you spam AoEs).
Mist Form isn't involved in this combo, most of us uses the spell Critical Surge which heals us for 65% of the critical damage we do. And trust me, it is really easy to achieve 50%+ spell critical chance.

As for me, I'm mainly using Devouring Swarm, which heals m for 100% of the damage I do with Devouring Swarm, add Critical Surge in here you go.

BUT. Despite all of that, it is BALANCED. Shh, don't cry right now and keep reading, I'll explain everything now.

WE CAN'T use Mist Form, it would just ruin the whole purpose of this build. In fact, we can't really cast anything else while we are in Bat Swarm. Why? It's simple.
As for me the cost is 0UP (thanks to the -5% from Former Emperor), but you can achieve 4UP on sorc, 26UP on templar and 34UP on NB/DK.

Now, what makes it unbalanced? We can actually stack the Swarms. If I cast my ultimate 10 times, I will have 10 swarms around me. Here is a screen of my DPS: with only 2 targets around me (I had ~20 swarms active at the same time): http://puu.sh/8tkmb.jpg

As you can see my DPS is higher than 10K and my HPS is around 8K-9K.


So what do we need? Softcapping the ultimate cost reduction? No, that won't do anything, trust me.

All we need is Bat Swarm to act like Inhale from Dragon Knights, you can't cast multiple instances of Inhale. If Bat Swarm was just resetting its duration every time you cast it, it would be perfectly fine. But it's not the case, you can just stack multiple instances of Bat Swarm. That's what makes it broken.

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO

Artemys_Knight wrote: »

I've 2shotted many vampires in PvP 1v1 with the Fighter's Guild skill line. When i PvP, I equip abilities from there to counter the vamp bandwagon, and they don't see it coming.

Well I hit a vampire with the morphed silver bolts yesterday, except that he ended up on his ass it didn't even do a scratch to him.
All my other mages spells didn't harm him... only effect was at best having him knocked over. Restraining Prison and Rune Prison did not work on that vampire either. Simply no effect.

There was no healer around and he didn't really have any sorts of shield on him that enhanced his HP. At least I didn't see, like on others, the purplish twitching edges at the outer sides of the HP Bars.

He then turned intoa mist... ran off, popped up somewhere and then he cast something on me that I could not free myself from and that reduced/drained my HP instantly (I am VR1 with 2,5 K HP). And nope, pressing my 1 & 2 mousebuttons didn't free me from this, like it would from restraining prison or other stunning/snaring spells.

I do not expect to stand a chance solo against a VR10 Vampire, but I would still expect that my maxed out spells (also maxed out passives for dmg) do scratch him and not just knock him over.

knaveofengland

some holy water , stake , garlic job done

steven_shidiwenb16_ESO

All they need to do, is set a Ultimate cost reduction Cap. There is a soft cap for every other stat. Why should ultimate cost reduction be any different?

AlliN

another one...

BUT. Despite all of that, it is BALANCED. Shh, don't cry right now and keep reading, I'll explain everything now.

and then he says

But it's not the case, you can just stack multiple instances of Bat Swarm. That's what makes it broken.

yeah.

Let me picture that logic for you - If a chair has one leg broken, and 3 perfectly good legs - using above reasoning, it's a perfectly good and balanced chair.

steven_shidiwenb16_ESO

All of the people in here saying "use silver bolt" or "fire" clearly don't PvP much, we arne't talking about the *** vampire players we are talking about the elite ones with Emperor that have a 0 cost ultimate.

Nacario

People call stuff OP when they dont know the mechanics. Just move out from the bat swarm and problem fixed. Problem is, among those 20 people theres a majority that dont pay attention nor know the mechanic.

Valmond

steven_shidiwenb16_ESO wrote: »

All of the people in here saying "use silver bolt" or "fire" clearly don't PvP much, we arne't talking about the *** vampire players we are talking about the elite ones with Emperor that have a 0 cost ultimate.

Sounds like we might want to nerf emperor then.
Because clearly vampire itself is not OP.

Let's just fix the bugs, and then see how it works out.
Possibly cap ultimate cost reduction at most (either cap maximum reduction, or make different reduction sources not stack) for now.

patrikblb16_ESO

You guys just dont know how to play then.
Silver bolts have a chance to do 1600dmg, use it maybe?

I've killed tons of vampires with it.

flow.currypoteb17_ESO

FIX BROKEN VAMPIRE