WTS WW Bite

MrJobangeles

I have been scammed, I was as cautious as you can be buying something which cannot be placed in a trade window, the Ware wolf bite. I understand I got scammed, and I should have played smarter and only allowed someone access to money if I trusted them more, but I chatted with this guy for a while, and after finally deciding he was legit, met him by the shrine while he was in WW form, and then he told me he didn't want to be scammed and so we came to the conclusion half now half later type payment. The price was cheap, 8,000. I gave him 4,000 gold, and he left the party and just stood there swiping at me. I began the whole "what happened man? Why did you leave?" It wasn't until I saw in the zone chat, "WTS WW Bite 8k" just as I had seen and replied to. This was followed by me telling the zone he was a scammer, and to my surprise about three or four others said they were scammed by the SAME GUY anywhere from a week ago! That means this player has been scamming for a week, ripping unsuspecting players off for their money, Please do something about it ZOS. I am amazed with all the tickets players said they have submitted on him in the past, along with the three or four that were submitted within the past hour.

Don't allow jerks like this to be the rich few in the game. Correct this action please. I do not want my 4,000 back, it is less than an hour of farming to get that money. I just dont want other poor players such as myself spending thier money on NOTHING.

Thank You, hopefully SOMETHING comes from this.

alterfenixeb17_ESO

Wrong forum. Not certain if it is Zenimax that should take action here.

MrJobangeles

Didn't think Zenimax would pay any attention to it on any other Forum, I just hope this player gets what he deserves, and yes...Zenimax would be the people to do that.

ijRoberts

Sorry, man. This isn't a customer service issue. This is a common sense one. You don't give money to strangers.

Also, having his name in the post is against the forum rules, and this post will either be closed or deleted because of it.

Heishi

This is why people shouldn't buy WW/Vamp bites. There are a number of guilds including one I'm getting up and running that advocate free bites. There are some who disagree with the idea for a variety of reasons, but it would stop the abuse of it. It would stop scams like this, it would stop the guilds who hunt the special WW and vamps so no one else can have it unless they pay an absurd amount. Seriously, it's not worth nearly what they charge (normally 20-40k).

I had a lv 12 character in ebon that I just walked into Riften, found the WW, got a bite, picked up the quest, then went about my way leveling.

VonMourn

This is a customer service issue. The developers have designed a system that results in players having to either spend hours camping spawn points for the chance to get access to part of the game they want to experience or pay another player to give them access. If ZMO didn't want to regulate the scammers who rip people off selling fake WW and vampire bites then they shouldn't have made it possible for players to bite each other or they should have allowed unlimited sharing so that there would be no market.

They created the market, it's their job to control it and punish scammers.

Ciedoc

Just increase the spawn rates and make it more often. Devalue the bites. Too many people getting scammed. Too many scammers spawn camping to kill spawns so they can keep charging and scamming. So take action and just make it nightly and multiple spawns even multiple zones. Kill the market and eliminate the problem.

It is foolish to pay for a bite anyway. Wait for a guildie, or there are even nice people that will bite for free. I got my vamp bite from a VR10 for free off a zone announcement. I just messaged them they grouped me and guided me to shrine and bite without any cost or conditions. There are nice people. But while there is a market there will be scammers. So Zenimax can kill the whole issue but either increasing the spawn rate and number of mobs /zones, or reduce the cool down to infect to daily or less.

ijRoberts

And people camping areas to kill things for a reward is different from any other place in the game? It isn't about the camping, it's about using your head by not giving money (and what seems to be an incredible amount of it) to a complete stranger on the internet.

As Ciedoc just said, there are other ways of getting what you're looking for for free. Why should customer support be responsible for your bad decision?

VonMourn

Per the Terms of Service:

"You agree not to use any Service to:

... Take any action, organize, transmit any content, effectuate or participate in any activity, group, or guild that is harmful, tortuous, abusive, hateful (including “hate speech”), racially, ethnically, religiously or otherwise offensive, obscene, threatening, bullying, vulgar, sexually explicit, defamatory, libelous, infringing, invasive of personal privacy or publicity rights, encourages conduct that would violate a law or is, in a reasonable person's view, objectionable and/or deemed to be in the sole discretion of ZeniMax inappropriate."

Now you can spin the buyer beware line and victim blaming all you want as you fervently attempt to blame the users for problems designed into the game by ZMO, but scamming other players is by definition harmful and tortuous actions that a reasonable person would find objectionable. Violations of the Terms of Service are a customer support issue. In addition, as you avoided addressing, this market has been created by ZMO's design decisions and they have a responsibility to their customers to regulate it.

Now maybe you are just bad at the game, but there has never been an area I have had to spend more than a few minutes in to complete objectives. Only WW/Vamp requires hours of camping due to rare spawns. Only WW/Vamp allow other players to directly block access to content for their fellow gamers. I have to assume you are, in fact, terrible at the game if you believe 4K is "an incredible amount" of money.

As Ciedoc noted, there are several ways that ZMO could adjust the Vamp/WW system to eliminate scamming and the market. It is on their heads, not on the customers to figure out a way around their poorly designed system. I already have a character with vamp and another with WW and I sell my bites weekly so I am arguing against my own interest here, but it's pretty obvious the system is bad for the average user experience.

MrJobangeles

I quote my first post here,

"The price was cheap, 8,000. I gave him 4,000 gold, and he left the party and just stood there swiping at me. "

and another quote from it,

"I do not want my 4,000 back, it is less than an hour of farming to get that money. I just dont want other poor players such as myself spending thier money on NOTHING."

I understand 4,000 is not a lot and getting the money is NOT the goal of this post.

Fenbrae

ZOS won't help you out, because you gave your money away voluntarily. He didn't steal it from you, you gave it to him.
People shouldn't be stupid enough to pay money for things that you cannot see in a trade window, no matter how trustworthy the person may seem.

I think it's really dumb people scam each other though.
I mean, you already earn gold like water and there are only a few gold sinks in the game (bag slots, bank slots and mounts).
I'm not even level 50 yet and i already have all bag + bank slots, the Imperial horse and 2 of the 3 expensive horses. Why would a scammer need to *** off others for money if it becomes useless later?

Dragos

Its ridiculous to claim that those who were scammed are somehow at fault. I too disagree with their choice to buy bites due to various reasons which have been stated again and again, but companies in the past have taken action against scammers and as someone pointed out (haven't read TOS so i cant verify personally), scamming is against the TOS.

This isnt the 90s. Enough MMOs have been put out by now that any company looking to release another one should know what scammers look for in a system. Its a huge oversight to have a stance against scammers then turn around and include a scammers paradise in the game. Actions > words. Doesnt matter what the TOS says, if they dont act against scammers, they are essentially giving them a greenlight.

Look at it this way. Imagine if someone tried to scam you like this in real life. Walmart is a common spot for people to peddle their wares (with their permission of course) such as girl scout cookies and what have you. Imagine you walk out and someone offers you a box of cookies for $3. You think ok i like cookies and i have $3 to spare. You give them your money and they turn around and start peddling to another customer without giving you the cookies. Would you think to yourself: "Oh, man, they really got me. Guess i should be more careful in the future on who i give my money to before receiving the goods."? No, you wouldnt. You would march straight to the walmarts manager and demand justice. Hell, you could get the police involved if you wanted.

There are established laws and practices to prevent this type of scamming from happening in the real world. In ESO, Zenimax makes the rules. Its up to them to create a system that allows fair and safe ways of exchanging goods, much like how the law regulates it irl. Failure to do so, along with failure to provide proper customer support to those who have been wronged, is nobodys fault but their own.

Cpt_Teemo

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info74-ZAMBuffDisplay.html ---> Anti Scam mod

This will show the player with a buff "Bit an Ally" with a timer on it, if he already has

MrJobangeles

Dragos wrote: »

Its ridiculous to claim that those who were scammed are somehow at fault. I too disagree with their choice to buy bites due to various reasons which have been stated again and again, but companies in the past have taken action against scammers and as someone pointed out (haven't read TOS so i cant verify personally), scamming is against the TOS.

This isnt the 90s. Enough MMOs have been put out by now that any company looking to release another one should know what scammers look for in a system. Its a huge oversight to have a stance against scammers then turn around and include a scammers paradise in the game. Actions > words. Doesnt matter what the TOS says, if they dont act against scammers, they are essentially giving them a greenlight.

Look at it this way. Imagine if someone tried to scam you like this in real life. Walmart is a common spot for people to peddle their wares (with their permission of course) such as girl scout cookies and what have you. Imagine you walk out and someone offers you a box of cookies for $3. You think ok i like cookies and i have $3 to spare. You give them your money and they turn around and start peddling to another customer without giving you the cookies. Would you think to yourself: "Oh, man, they really got me. Guess i should be more careful in the future on who i give my money to before receiving the goods."? No, you wouldnt. You would march straight to the walmarts manager and demand justice. Hell, you could get the police involved if you wanted.

There are established laws and practices to prevent this type of scamming from happening in the real world. In ESO, Zenimax makes the rules. Its up to them to create a system that allows fair and safe ways of exchanging goods, much like how the law regulates it irl. Failure to do so, along with failure to provide proper customer support to those who have been wronged, is nobodys fault but their own.

Thank you. ZOS ignored me, and green lit this scammer. I posted here because my two in-game tickets were ignored. I just want justice. *** if I should be more careful who I purchase from, ZOS should be more careful who they allow to sell. I again, don't want my money, dont care about the money, just want justice. This same player, when the name was put out in zone chat had scammed at least 10 people that were on at that time. How many you think he got overall? I bet hundreds.

I may start scamming for some money...ain't nothing like free gold huh? Especially if it is not being punished.

ACTIONS > WORDS

'nuff said.

Hodorius

My WW bite is rdy and for sale.
Feel free to contact me on the EU server.

As payment I want to hear a good joke.
No joke = no bite

JessieColt

First of all, this isn't real life, so comparing buying GS cookies to a virtual world game is a strawman argument.

Second of all, the ToS covers your interaction with the game, not your interaction with other players.

If you do something in game that is designed to specifically be harmful to other players, as in camping spawns to prevent other players from participating in the game itself (boss bot farming, killing ww and bloodfiends, etc.) then yes, Zen should get involved because the player is exploiting the system/game to interfere with another players ability to interact with the game.

If you trade with another player, Zen is not responsible for either your actions or another players actions with regards to the 2 of you conducting a business transaction in game.

You got scammed. I am very sorry that it happened. But you got scammed because you chose to accept the risks involved with a business transaction with another player, not because of something that Zenimax did wrong. Therefore Zenimax is not responsible for what happened to you.

You chose to engage in activity outside of the boundaries that are set in place to prevent scamming (the trade ability), by offering to pay for something that cannot be traded through the approved methods (COD mail, Trade Window, Guild Store).

So yes, ultimately YOU, the buyer, (any buyer of WW/Vamp Bites who are scammed) are responsible for what happened.

It really sucks that scammers exist in the game, because they easily destroy the confidence in the market that exists for those services. And it is precisely why I camped know spawn points for Vamps for more than a week (real life time) hoping for bloodfiends to show up.

You opted to go outside of the controls that Zenimax has in place to help prevent scamming (outlined above) and you got bit (figuratively), and lost your money.

Man up and take responsibility for your own actions and behavior instead of trying to blame others or expect others to dumb down the system to protect people from themselves.

Soloeus

Some people last night in Zone Chat were claiming the Terms of Service and EULA state "somewhere" that attempting to scam a player in this way will result in a ban, and now we see why misinformation is dangerous.

It encourages people to take bad risks thinking the system will cover them. But it won't. The whole EULA is an excuse for Zenimax to ban/delete your account without reason or notification.

However the implied "We can..." is different from the direct "We will..." and anyone who thinks a Scammer will be banned is insane. This would be the first MMO in history where a player can be banned for general griefing, or scamming other players.

Don't take risks, kids. Not like that. If you must buy a Vamp or WW bite, just calm down and ask in guilds. Hopefully being in guild with the "seller" can add a layer of accountability.