Am I forced to be a Vampire for PVE?

ElliottXO

Advantages:
- Health, Stamina and Magicka recovery bonus
- Stealth bonus
- Undeath survivability bonus
- Additional skills

Disadvantages:
- 50% more fire damage
- (Fighter's guild abilities, no issue in PVE?)
- (feeding once every 30 minutes, seems to be no real issue?)

To me it seems that a Vampire character would be far stronger for PVE in any case. Even if there is fire damage to be expected you could simply swap an item for fire resist. A lot of people also already know the situations when a lot of fire damage is ahead (e.g. group dungeons after first run).

I am not a Vampire myself, and I see that a lot of the skills have been reported broken. But if they work as intented I just cannot see how I can keep up with this being a non Vampire.

Being Vampire should be a roleplay rare choice, but at level 42 I see them all over the place and it probably gets even more populated in the VR content.

How would you guys think about a flat 10% health and stamina reduction debuff during daytime? Really something that makes you a Vampire rather than one of those shining Twilight jokes. I've seen armor set bonuses during daytime, so the system is there to provide such a buff/debuff.

What do you guys think? Should half the world be Vampires for its advantages, especially in PVE? Or are you on my side, that it should be a rare choice with fairly stronger off-trades?

Thunder

Heh, nah, there's no compelling reason to be a vampire. Although, I guess I should say yes, everyone should become a vampire as soon as possible so that there won't be 50 people an hour trying to sell vamp bites in chat.

ElliottXO

Thunder wrote: »

Heh, nah, there's no compelling reason to be a vampire. Although, I guess I should say yes, everyone should become a vampire as soon as possible so that there won't be 50 people an hour trying to sell vamp bites in chat.

I listed the advantages. Yet you say there is no reason to be a vampire without any argument.

Thunder

I said there's no "compelling" reason in reply to your question as to whether or not you are forced to be a vampire. You asked a yes or no question, I felt no was a good enough response.

People have made it to VR 10 without being a vampire, therefore you are not forced to be one. I am not going to be one, I'll let you know if I don't make it, but I really don't see that being an issue.

Jadakin

The fire damage thing is pretty significant.

ElliottXO

Thunder wrote: »

I said there's no "compelling" reason in reply to your question as to whether or not you are forced to be a vampire. You asked a yes or no question, I felt no was a good enough response.

People have made it to VR 10 without being a vampire, therefore you are not forced to be one. I am not going to be one, I'll let you know if I don't make it, but I really don't see that being an issue.

Well I am obviously comparing builds. People can make it without a helmet too, that does not mean they have a logical choice of not wearing one.

nerevarine1138

ElliottXO wrote: »

Well I am obviously comparing builds. People can make it without a helmet too, that does not mean they have a logical choice of not wearing one.

As mentioned, the fire vulnerability is a pretty serious handicap, and you lose health regen in the later stages. And you're going to spend a lot of time in Stage 4 unless you enjoy wasting magicka on vampire abilities. By the way, when I say "serious handicap," I mean that if I face 2+ scamps, I get a little nervous.

Should there be stronger trade-offs? Yes. Except I mean social trade-offs. Not weakness in combat tradeoffs.

Thunder

ElliottXO wrote: »

Well I am obviously comparing builds. People can make it without a helmet too, that does not mean they have a logical choice of not wearing one.

If your real question is, "Are vampires so powerful that there's no logical reason not to be one?", then my answer is still no.

ESO is a game where extremely diverse builds are viable, yet of course some builds are going to be more powerful than others. When it comes right down to it, sorcerers are better than everyone else at everything, yet I don't think anyone would say you are forced to play as a sorcerer because of it.

Furthermore, there's no logic in playing a build you do not enjoy. If you enjoy plunging headlong into the fray, caving in skulls with your mighty maul, then it would be silly to try to play as a sneaky nightblade assassin just because in certain situations they might have more DPS.

ESO is an experience to be enjoyed, that's what a lot of people simply do not understand. This isn't WoW. This isn't a race to cap so you can start grinding gear in hopes of making it into a raiding guild. Someday it might become that, I sure hope not, but someday there might be LFMs up in chat looking for a DPS with a gearscore over 5000 who knows all the fights and link achievements and gear. Someday groups might reject you if you are this or that, or if you're not that or the other. Thankfully, today is not that day.

Play how you like, don't worry about what the next guy is doing. If you find the idea of being a vampire appealing, go for it! If find all the feeding rituals unappealing, then just be happy being who you are.

LadyInTheWater

@Thunder‌ makes some really good points.

The way you worded your question leaves open the possibility that people simply may not care if they have those bonuses or not.

I suppose, for the hardcore end-game min/max players, the question is a lot more difficult than for someone just playing casually and enjoying the game.

As a Templar, if I opt for a pure DPS skill point distribution, perhaps the points I spend in Restoring Light are "useless" and they're better off being spent elsewhere. Or if I'm intending on being a pure healer, perhaps the points I spent in Dawn's Wrath are useless.

But I'm not a min/max player.

If you're asking if Vampire is required, simply to eke out every last drop of available damage/health resources, then I suppose the answer could possibly be "yes", but I don't know enough information about endgame, nor vampire, to make an informed opinion.

Personally, I have no interest in becoming a Vampire. I'd like to be a werewolf, but that's purely for RP reasons (as geeky as it sounds).

Nox_Aeterna

By all means OP , become a vampire.

Then we will talk.

It is funny how people that did not had to deal with a 50% fire vun talk about this.

Let me tell you , it aint pretty.

ElliottXO

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

By all means OP , become a vampire.

Then we will talk.

It is funny how people that did not had to deal with a 50% fire vun talk about this.

Let me tell you , it aint pretty.

Keep in mind I'm talking about PVE.

If it's such a huge thing how comes in every of my last parties I had at least one vampire? All of them roleplaying I guess...

But I would be glad if somebody can tell me the approximate vampire population in VR content.

Thevenin

You aren't "forced", but at the moment yes, it is quite overpowered. It's surprising they didn't see it coming tbh.
You can deal with VR content fine by going 1h&shield.

jircris11

only reason i enjoy being a vamp is the extra HP steal and the added challenge to it..most PVE mobs that use magic use...FIRE! so yea mess up and you will see your HP drop like nothing.

Altheina

To OP, you clearly know the advantages and the disadvantages of being vampire and I guess you just need convincing to become one. The best way to do that is to experience it yourself by becoming vampire and see if you like it or not

jircris11

I have both a WW and a vamp, i enjoy the vamp challenge and the little perks for being one. sadly WW is MAJORLY under powered. you lose all sills and weapons.armor when you transform and the skills are quite..lackluster.

Sarenia

If you want to be a vampire, be a vampire.

If you don't, don't.

Either way, you can play the game successfully. By definition the ability to do so undermines any sense of "force".

ElliottXO

Sarenia wrote: »

If you want to be a vampire, be a vampire.

If you don't, don't.

Either way, you can play the game successfully. By definition the ability to do so undermines any sense of "force".

I am not interested in that 'play how you want' mantra. Maybe I should've chosen another topic (are vampires superior in pve?).

Sarenia

ElliottXO wrote: »

Sarenia wrote: »

If you want to be a vampire, be a vampire.

If you don't, don't.

Either way, you can play the game successfully. By definition the ability to do so undermines any sense of "force".

I am not interested in that 'play how you want' mantra. Maybe I should've chosen another topic (are vampires superior in pve?).

Pardon? It's not a mantra. It's a statement of fact.

If you want to be a vampire, be one. Otherwise don't. You can play the game just fine with or without vampirism.

What else are you hoping to hear? Sometimes people don't want a solution. They just want to argue about the question.

nerevarine1138

ElliottXO wrote: »

Sarenia wrote: »

If you want to be a vampire, be a vampire.

If you don't, don't.

Either way, you can play the game successfully. By definition the ability to do so undermines any sense of "force".

I am not interested in that 'play how you want' mantra. Maybe I should've chosen another topic (are vampires superior in pve?).

No. They are not superior, any more than a Sorcerer is superior.

Certain builds will be more effective for certain situations. I can tell you right off the bat that a vampire build is insanely stressful for any dungeons where the mobs even think about hitting you with fire, especially if those are boss mobs that won't do you the courtesy of letting you drain their precious life essence.

Repeat after me: there is no "best" build for PvE.

ElliottXO

@Sarenia‌ @nerevarine1138‌

The question is extremely easy to ask, but difficult to answer.

Example: if by being vampire with 1 fire resist enchant all my stats are the same but the vampire has more magicka regeneration, then the vampire is superior and as a min/maxer I'll be forced to be one.

Or if the advantages outweight the disadvantages. This is the question I am asking and the answer I an looking for.

If active vampires here keep talking about the huge disadvantages I am keen to find out why them and so many others still choose to be one. The population seems to be exploding.

I cannot imagine that all if them do it for RP reasons, but that being vampire provides them advantages overall.

Lalai

I don't see it as a necessity. Instead of wasting a bunch of enchants (well three I guess) on fire resist (cause one enchant alone isn't going to make up for the decreased resistance), I can instead enchant items to be soft capped for health/magicka/stamina regen stuff. You don't have to be a vampire to soft cap multiple stats. You do need to be good with picking gear/enchants/passives (racials also help).

You can gain damage mitigation through set bonuses as well. And the skills are no less required than having points in mage or fighter's guild stuff.

You don't have to be a vampire to be good at PvE. Whether it's "the best" for a min/maxer, I don't know. Those things aren't out yet, but I personally don't feel like it would be. Right now it's less about it being "the best" and more about whether it's a proper fit for how you play, and the skills you're looking for.

The population exploding thing.. well I see more people asking for WW bites personally. Everyone seems to think they need to pick one of the two, and since they can be cured, there's no real downside to trying it out. Of course the population for both is going to "explode" at the beginning of the game.

UnknownXV

Becoming a vampire or Werewolf should require immense dedication and intellect to find out how, with months of grinding to even have a chance at it (similar to how becoming a Jedi worked in SWG). That way it doesn't have to be exactly balanced. It can be a little OP simply because of the strife you had to go through to get it. That's the point, rarity and reward.

But no, we won't have that in modern titles. Everyone is a winner, everyone gets a golden star free of charge. No mystery and no challenge.

Ha oh man I am so bitter.

ElliottXO

Nevermind guys. I found the answer on Tamriel Foundry.

Topic: "When the entire server goes vamp…"

Sarenia

Give it a few months. You'll see far, far fewer permanent vampires.

ElliottXO

Sarenia wrote: »

Give it a few months. You'll see far, far fewer permanent vampires.

It's not an issue of time if you read the thread. Some unbalanced mechanics allow superior usage of skills/ultimate, making it spamable.

Top PVP and PVE players are choosing vampire, negating the fire weakness to 25% with one single enchant while keeping all advantages.

Csub

Only become a vampire/werewolf if you want to be one, luckily this game is about.numbers and statistics on the screen but about playing how you want (within reasonable boundaries of course). That is, unless you download a ton of addons for statistics

n.englishb14_ESO

Gonna put vampire skills on the stack of things zeni has to re-balance....right under phasing.

ElliottXO

Csub wrote: »

Only become a vampire/werewolf if you want to be one, luckily this game is about.numbers and statistics on the screen but about playing how you want (within reasonable boundaries of course). That is, unless you download a ton of addons for statistics

And that is the point. I want to play with maximum numbers. This is how I want to play.

If I have to go vampire for that, then I will do that. It still seems wrong that half the population goes vampire because it gives more pros than cons. I can't imagine that developers had this in mind.

Csub

ElliottXO wrote: »

Csub wrote: »

Only become a vampire/werewolf if you want to be one, luckily this game is about.numbers and statistics on the screen but about playing how you want (within reasonable boundaries of course). That is, unless you download a ton of addons for statistics

And that is the point. I want to play with maximum numbers. This is how I want to play.

If I have to go vampire for that, then I will do that. It still seems wrong that half the population goes vampire because it gives more pros than cons. I can't imagine that developers had this in mind.

Well then you still have to decide for yourself I guess. You see the pros and cons, but keep in mind they can be adjusted with any patch. It also depends on how you build your character : Tanky with lots of resistance? If yes and if you might not want to worry about increased fire damage. PvE or PvP? Probably most raids or dungeons will have some sort of fire damage, if you can dodge them or survive it is okay. If PvP, are you a glasscannon sort of player or you don't mind if you can survive a battle?

I guess only you can decide with the knowledge of pros and cons and your playstyle.

Lalai

ElliottXO wrote: »

Csub wrote: »

Only become a vampire/werewolf if you want to be one, luckily this game is about.numbers and statistics on the screen but about playing how you want (within reasonable boundaries of course). That is, unless you download a ton of addons for statistics

And that is the point. I want to play with maximum numbers. This is how I want to play.

If I have to go vampire for that, then I will do that. It still seems wrong that half the population goes vampire because it gives more pros than cons. I can't imagine that developers had this in mind.

That's kinda the thing.. with you lot (being the min/maxers) there's always going to be a "correct" build. Vamp or Werewolf or neither is -always- going to come out ahead. Anytime players are given many options, someone always calculates the best.. that thing that you "have" to be in order to output maximum damage and such. If that is literally all you're interested in, you're going to be forced into something at some point any way you try and slice it. Yeah, some things need to be balanced, but then there's just gonna be a new best, it might still even be vampire. That's just what min/maxers do. As long as that is your playstyle, you're probably going to be forced to play a certain way.

You are not, however, by any means forced to play a Vampire to do well in PvE, or PvP overall. As I said before, the stat caps and such can be hit without even touching Vampire if you're smart with other pieces.

Faolanhart

Solo player here, Argonian Nightblade that plays like a mage.
No racial passives to help with my build.
Also a werewolf which I chose to be because I like werewolves & it's fun.
Even though I had 40 magic & zero stamina when I became one.
I have done just fine, sure I have died but not very much.

So no, no reason to be a vampire unless you just like vampires, play PVP allot & like to use exploits or like having a 50% weakness to the most common element in the game.