Punishment for Players exploiting a certain Quick-Level Bug

stefanroeth123neb18_ESO

Dear customer support,

I would like to propose that you figure out some kind of punishment for those that have exploited the quick-level bug (you know which I mean, even fixed it in a hotfix this maintenance).

I am looking very keenly on this as it is an important statement from you to me: If nothing happens to those that have clearly abused it (some have gone from VR7 to VR 10 in a couple of hours), then I take that as your acceptance of this and I will do that next time, too. Potentially even promote it to give everyone the chance to use these means of getting ahead in the game.

Being of higher level earlier than others clearly has a value. Otherwise you would not have offered a 5-day early access. So the argument that in a couple of weeks this wont matter any more does not count for me. More time for farming gear, more time for setting up and training gameplay with groups etc. are just a couple of the advantages gained.

I personally would find a 3-5 day suspension adequate, but you are probably in a better position to judge what punishment would be adequate.

Tarwin

I can't see why it matters at all if someone logged in and *poofed* to level 50. The early access was a way to get people to start the money train rolling (and maybe even a smart way to distribute population)

LazerusKI

he, someone who could not grind there is now whining here, because its not possible anymore?
why should these players get a ban?

the first player reached rank 50 at the first day. through grinding. should he get banned, just because he was faster than you? because he had an "advantage"?

I ran the v10 open-dungeon solo. including the boss and some rare-bosses.
should i get a ban now, because i "exploited" stunlock and unlimited mana as a NB?

during the headstart i allready reached level 50, including my vamp bite.
wednesday i reached rank 9, after finishing all the zones, no black quest-zones left for me. some bosses and anchors are, but they wont give me a whole level.
Sure, after that i grinded up to 10. what else should i do?
And if there is a boss ingame that gives that much exp. why shouldnt we use him?

so, dont cry just because some players skipped a few levels, they wont have an advantage at all...its boring up here. nothing to do for now

Phyrdrin

Before anyone is punished for anything you deem a punishable offense, I believe you should write up a term paper with a thesis about why anyone here or in customer service should do more than bat their eyelashes at your "threats". I was at least hoping for some humor when I clicked on this thread. What a waste. At least the comments were amusing

stefanroeth123neb18_ESO

Very sad comments here indeed. And I am not whining because i didnt have the chance to do it. On the contrary, I actively left a group that was trying to do it.

And an official statement was that they "take consciously exploiting a bug in the game very seriously". All I am saying is that when they turn a blind eye to this, then apparently it is acceptable behaviour and I then don't have to leave a group like stated above next time any more.

To those who stated how great they are because they powerleveled through the game, all i can say is: If you used the abilities and skills that you have, then you did it legally and there is nothing wrong with that (except for your own disadvantage of missing out on a very good side of the game). But there is a difference between grinding public group dungeons (that barely give any exp anyways) and actively abusing an obviously broken game mechanic.

I'm just hoping that the community gets better once the free month is over, because currently this feels horribly like a kiddie-plagued (or worse: Intellectual kiddie-plagued) F2P game at the moment.

LazerusKI

stefanroeth123neb18_ESO wrote: »

Very sad comments here indeed. And I am not whining because i didnt have the chance to do it. On the contrary, I actively left a group that was trying to do it.

And an official statement was that they "take consciously exploiting a bug in the game very seriously". All I am saying is that when they turn a blind eye to this, then apparently it is acceptable behaviour and I then don't have to leave a group like stated above next time any more.

To those who stated how great they are because they powerleveled through the game, all i can say is: If you used the abilities and skills that you have, then you did it legally and there is nothing wrong with that (except for your own disadvantage of missing out on a very good side of the game). But there is a difference between grinding public group dungeons (that barely give any exp anyways) and actively abusing an obviously broken game mechanic.

I'm just hoping that the community gets better once the free month is over, because currently this feels horribly like a kiddie-plagued (or worse: Intellectual kiddie-plagued) F2P game at the moment.

the difference is, that you could get nothing "wrong" there.
No unlimited skillpoints, no unlimited items, no unlimited gold...nothing like that.
It was just a fast way to get exp. nothing more.

first you need to define what an "exploit" is.
Is it grinding at all? you can get more items and more exp in a faster time than everyone who is just questing.
Is it bossfarming, like the botters? You can get very good stuff in a very fast time and in large amounts.
Is it farming for materials by saving the spawn locations?
if you argue like the way you did...then everything is an exploit for some.

AlliN

I agree with OP, that explots should be bannable offense - but what disturbs me even more are posts of people here.

I've chosen ESO, becasue I thought it will target, older, more mature audience. All I see though, are some half-witted self-pleasuring idiotic comments, of elitists or just simple trolls wtih a stick shoved up their bums.

And other thing, I see people on the forums (not this thread, overall) condone botting, gold buying, exploiting on the "what do you care" basis.

Seriously, you will kill games for all of us, damn, stupid, misguided internet-generation, repeating their "everything goes unless caught" mantra.

Soloeus

gamebouncerb16_ESO wrote: »

I can't see why it matters at all if someone logged in and *poofed* to level 50. The early access was a way to get people to start the money train rolling (and maybe even a smart way to distribute population)

It matters because it is cheating, and it gives them an unfair advantage over me.

AlliN wrote: »

I agree with OP, that explots should be bannable offense - but what disturbs me even more are posts of people here.

I've chosen ESO, becasue I thought it will target, older, more mature audience. All I see though, are some half-witted self-pleasuring idiotic comments, of elitists or just simple trolls wtih a stick shoved up their bums.

And other thing, I see people on the forums (not this thread, overall) condone botting, gold buying, exploiting on the "what do you care" basis.

Seriously, you will kill games for all of us, damn, stupid, misguided internet-generation, repeating their "everything goes unless caught" mantra.

This is because trollkids can perform Hit-And-Runs and never be responsible or accountable for their actions. Lifting the veil of anonymity would be a good thing. I think we should mandate every player to connect their account to a credit card at all times, and if you remove your card, your account (and gametime) is suspended until a new card is applied to your account.

Then your @handle will be your real life name, and your city of residence can be connected to your profile to add a layer of personal responsibility. This is similar to facebook validation, except no facebook.

LazerusKI

Soloeus wrote: »

gamebouncerb16_ESO wrote: »

I can't see why it matters at all if someone logged in and *poofed* to level 50. The early access was a way to get people to start the money train rolling (and maybe even a smart way to distribute population)

It matters because it is cheating, and it gives them an unfair advantage over me.

the ability to dupe the mage-guild skillbook - THAT is cheating.
the ability to level faster than you? thats not cheating.
Resetting a boss? thats also not cheating. we did that a lot of times when something went wrong. when our healer died for example.
If you want to call it a bug that the adds will give exp, then they would have to rework most of the bosses.
So, what is exploiting? where is the border between exploiting and usage of ingame mechanics?

I leveled faster through questing than most grinders. the grinding spot there was limited to 6-10, where 6-8 was a waste of time. so, everyone who had rank 8 had allready a huge advantage.

stefanroeth123neb18_ESO

AlliN wrote: »

I agree with OP, that explots should be bannable offense - but what disturbs me even more are posts of people here.

I've chosen ESO, becasue I thought it will target, older, more mature audience. All I see though, are some half-witted self-pleasuring idiotic comments, of elitists or just simple trolls wtih a stick shoved up their bums.

And other thing, I see people on the forums (not this thread, overall) condone botting, gold buying, exploiting on the "what do you care" basis.

Seriously, you will kill games for all of us, damn, stupid, misguided internet-generation, repeating their "everything goes unless caught" mantra.

Thank you, you are saying exactly what I meant, but in better words. Still hoping as I said that this is a "free-month" effect and those people will locust swarm onwards to the next game they can ruin for others who WANT to play it and are willing to pay for it. Heck I would pay double the price per month if this would keep those locust kids (intellectually, independet of their real age) away.

LazerusKI

stefanroeth123neb18_ESO wrote: »

AlliN wrote: »

I agree with OP, that explots should be bannable offense - but what disturbs me even more are posts of people here.

I've chosen ESO, becasue I thought it will target, older, more mature audience. All I see though, are some half-witted self-pleasuring idiotic comments, of elitists or just simple trolls wtih a stick shoved up their bums.

And other thing, I see people on the forums (not this thread, overall) condone botting, gold buying, exploiting on the "what do you care" basis.

Seriously, you will kill games for all of us, damn, stupid, misguided internet-generation, repeating their "everything goes unless caught" mantra.

Thank you, you are saying exactly what I meant, but in better words. Still hoping as I said that this is a "free-month" effect and those people will locust swarm onwards to the next game they can ruin for others who WANT to play it and are willing to pay for it. Heck I would pay double the price per month if this would keep those locust kids (intellectually, independet of their real age) away.

ever thought that not everyone is like that?
The faster some players level, the faster they can report bugs and other broken things. And when you reach the endgame, there is hopefully a fix that wont interrupt you.
I reported so many bugs that i nearly got sick and quit this game.
For example the broken v10 zones or experience.
just a quote

Veteran Rank Updates
You can earn up to Veteran Rank 12 as you continue your adventures in Craglorn. Additionally, the veteran XP earned from killing enemies has more than doubled.

so, what do you think that means? that the current exp is working fine?
not to mention the broken gear drops, non-existent glyphs...sigh

so, is it still exploiting if the intended mechanic is broken?

stefanroeth123neb18_ESO

LazerusKI wrote: »

the difference is, that you could get nothing "wrong" there.
No unlimited skillpoints, no unlimited items, no unlimited gold...nothing like that.
It was just a fast way to get exp. nothing more.

first you need to define what an "exploit" is.
Is it grinding at all? you can get more items and more exp in a faster time than everyone who is just questing.
Is it bossfarming, like the botters? You can get very good stuff in a very fast time and in large amounts.
Is it farming for materials by saving the spawn locations?
if you argue like the way you did...then everything is an exploit for some.

It is pretty clearly defined what an exploit is: Using a mechanic in game for something that is was not intended to do. That answers all your questions automatically:
- Grinding is just killing mobs over and over again. Not abusing a game mechanic and therefore legal
- Bossfarming itself is actually also just killing a respawning mob. Also legal. However as soon as you automate your actions to a degree that does not require you to sit in front of your computer any more, it is abusing a game mechanic and therefore illegal (in the sense of in line with the rules of conduct)
- Farming materials by saving spawn locations is also in line with the rules of conduct. Essentially it is the same as killing mobs over and over again.

So: No, I'm not arguing that all this is an exploit. I am arguing that using a game mechanic that is obviously broken to gain an advantage through it (in this case Experience, and YES, unlimited experience).

There is no difference in a virtual game between skillpoints, items, gold or experience. All of them are a form of currency that allows you to become better at the game and gives you access to further advancing your character. Therefore, in my opinion it does not matter if you "dupe" experience or dupe gold. Both are against the code of conduct and therefore should be punished accordingly.

stefanroeth123neb18_ESO

LazerusKI wrote: »

stefanroeth123neb18_ESO wrote: »

Thank you, you are saying exactly what I meant, but in better words. Still hoping as I said that this is a "free-month" effect and those people will locust swarm onwards to the next game they can ruin for others who WANT to play it and are willing to pay for it. Heck I would pay double the price per month if this would keep those locust kids (intellectually, independet of their real age) away.

ever thought that not everyone is like that?
The faster some players level, the faster they can report bugs and other broken things. And when you reach the endgame, there is hopefully a fix that wont interrupt you.
For example the broken v10 zones or experience.
jsut a quote

Yeah sure. People power level in order to better be able to report VR10 bugs... Sorry, but this is yet the worst excuse I've heard

LazerusKI wrote: »

Veteran Rank Updates
You can earn up to Veteran Rank 12 as you continue your adventures in Craglorn. Additionally, the veteran XP earned from killing enemies has more than doubled.

so, what do you think that means? that the current exp is working fine?

I think it means that they want people to catch up quicker once they release their additional content so that more people can actually experience that same content. This is unfortunately probably more a reaction to all those people cheating their levels up so quickly in the first place. To me it shows that they will not take action against the exploiters of this bug, which in turn takes away quite a bit of my confidence that I had in this game.

Sakiri

Jaffar_AlKhazzir wrote: »

The EVE is strong in this one

Lol.

LazerusKI

stefanroeth123neb18_ESO wrote: »

LazerusKI wrote: »

the difference is, that you could get nothing "wrong" there.
No unlimited skillpoints, no unlimited items, no unlimited gold...nothing like that.
It was just a fast way to get exp. nothing more.

first you need to define what an "exploit" is.
Is it grinding at all? you can get more items and more exp in a faster time than everyone who is just questing.
Is it bossfarming, like the botters? You can get very good stuff in a very fast time and in large amounts.
Is it farming for materials by saving the spawn locations?
if you argue like the way you did...then everything is an exploit for some.

It is pretty clearly defined what an exploit is: Using a mechanic in game for something that is was not intended to do. That answers all your questions automatically:
- Grinding is just killing mobs over and over again. Not abusing a game mechanic and therefore legal
- Bossfarming itself is actually also just killing a respawning mob. Also legal. However as soon as you automate your actions to a degree that does not require you to sit in front of your computer any more, it is abusing a game mechanic and therefore illegal (in the sense of in line with the rules of conduct)
- Farming materials by saving spawn locations is also in line with the rules of conduct. Essentially it is the same as killing mobs over and over again.

So: No, I'm not arguing that all this is an exploit. I am arguing that using a game mechanic that is obviously broken to gain an advantage through it (in this case Experience, and YES, unlimited experience).

There is no difference in a virtual game between skillpoints, items, gold or experience. All of them are a form of currency that allows you to become better at the game and gives you access to further advancing your character. Therefore, in my opinion it does not matter if you "dupe" experience or dupe gold. Both are against the code of conduct and therefore should be punished accordingly.

let me quote myself:

LazerusKI wrote: »

Veteran Rank Updates
You can earn up to Veteran Rank 12 as you continue your adventures in Craglorn. Additionally, the veteran XP earned from killing enemies has more than doubled.

so, what do you think that means? that the current exp is working fine?
not to mention the broken gear drops, non-existent glyphs...sigh

so, is it still exploiting if the intended mechanic is broken?

exploiting would be, if you could have entered that dungeon before veteran 6 and still get full exp, pull lowlevel players through it (you can solo the boss-adds without problems). but as i said, 6-8 is a waste of time. you will get more exp from quests.

Malediktus

Hopefully they will be at least banned for a few weeks.

LazerusKI

stefanroeth123neb18_ESO wrote: »

Yeah sure. People power level in order to better be able to report VR10 bugs... Sorry, but this is yet the worst excuse I've heard

thats what i´m doing. i report everything i can find.
I was always one of the faster-players, so why shouldnt i report these problem before they become a problem for even more players?
as i said, i finished nearly all the quests and reported all the broken ones.
tried nearly all the NB and Vamp skills and reported the bugs.

And i also reported the problem with the experience-gain and loot in v10 zones.
And currently, its nearly impossible without grinding or boss-"exploiting".
would you have fun in grinding for hours, just to get through the 9-10 gap?
let me spoiler you this: its NOT fun.

i mean...IF there would be some kind of grind-prevention...sure, why not? in the lower zones its annoying for other players. but only IF there would be a working way to get experience.

but hey, im out of this topic.
have fun banning all the people

wrlifeboil

Many VR10s took advantage of those 'exploits' when they were legal exploits. So I doubt that ZOS will retroactively punish the quick levelers. It's the same thing as group leveling while nuking groups with aoe damage (which ZOS is nerfing very soon).

Valethar

stefanroeth123neb18_ESO wrote: »

Being of higher level earlier than others clearly has a value. Otherwise you would not have offered a 5-day early access.

Faster leveling really doesn't have a whole lot to do with it, and certainly isn't the reason developers offer an early access period. It's a benefit to pre-ordering, to encourage people not to wait until release day to buy the game, which means the developer gets a faster return on the investment. It also servers to mitigate some of the load on the servers and starter zones on release day by spreading people out.

LazerusKI

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Many VR10s took advantage of those 'exploits' when they were legal exploits. So I doubt that ZOS will retroactively punish the quick levelers. It's the same thing as group leveling while nuking groups with aoe damage (which ZOS is nerfing very soon).

thats what is going on in every single zone.
regular playing players should be glad, that these people found the dungeon-boss grind. its a little bit annoying to have a group running through the public-dungeons over and over again, killing everything inside of it. or killing all the enemies in your questing zone...so, this grind was the lesser evil, expect more grinders running through your questing zones soon again

khaza

You think it is better that when they "fixed" the bossencounter instead broke it entirely is better?
Killed the boss and his 2 adds 3 times now and can't progress further into the cavern since it is bugged instead.

Stravokov

exploiters gaining levels purely from exploiting is not going to merit a ban. if your doing it to make gold and sell gold for money... ya you will get a ban for that.

they are not going to ban paying customers who cheated to VR 10 and loose revenue. they may wave a finger at you in the form if a forum post. but that is just to scare ya from doing it.

7788b14_ESO

We all have an internal rule book we live by, suffering comes from expecting others to play by our personal set of rules.

steven_shidiwenb16_ESO

Ill take a 3-5 suspension that is nothing lol... hell my Research is going to take 6days anyway. Elder scrolls online is more of a Waiting game. Waiting for horse to be fed, Waiting for hirelings, waiting for research and waiting for Craglorn.

so.... yeaaaaaaa..........

Zarec

So by your thinking everyone that has taken advantage of the horse sprint bug should be punished as well. I mean both are benign and have no ill effect on other players or the game economy...but both are bugs that are being abused by the playerbase. So by your thinking no matter what kind if bug if it is in your opinion doesn't fit into your view of how the game should be those should be punished.

Sorry but if it is benign in nature...then it's not worth punishing. The duping, hacking, speed bugs affected other players and the economy. This however does not.

Daethz

Stop Asking for suspensions.
If anything they should remove the gains.
As a player I expect anything I do ingame to be working as intended, as an example; if a boss is dropping too much loot, or something, i expect he was meant to, and if I decided to farm said boss, why should I be banned for doing it?

stefanroeth123neb18_ESO

Absolutely fascinating. I am aware that the people on the forums are probably the more informed ones, hence also more inclined to abuse their knowledge of bugs. But the majority of people here seems to have used this exploit and is even defending it. I am shocked.

And those excuses....
I'm exploiting to be able to better report end-game bugs... lol
I'm exploiting because there is no other way to level... lol (I'm VR8 in the 2nd zone of the 3rd alliance, so yes, I will be VR10 when I'm done leveling). Been doing dungeons from time to time, but it takes time. Time they are not willing to spend.

Anywho. I have said my thing. I'm waiting what happens and will have a very keen eye on those that i know have used the exploit extensively. I will take my consequenses out of it and adapt to the practical interpretation of their code of conduct. Fine by me.

LazerusKI

stefanroeth123neb18_ESO wrote: »

And those excuses....
I'm exploiting to be able to better report end-game bugs... lol
I'm exploiting because there is no other way to level... lol (I'm VR8 in the 2nd zone of the 3rd alliance, so yes, I will be VR10 when I'm done leveling). Been doing dungeons from time to time, but it takes time. Time they are not willing to spend.

i think you mean me with that, sad to see that you cant read at all
i said, that i leveled up to rank 9 with quests, reported all the broken ones during that time, reported other bugs, broken zones etc etc. if you want to call it "exploited to report bugs" sorry to say that...but learn to read

stefanroeth123neb18_ESO wrote: »

Anywho. I have said my thing. I'm waiting what happens and will have a very keen eye on those that i know have used the exploit extensively.

Now you are a wannabe GM? haha^^

Phyrdrin

Daethzb14_ESO wrote: »

Stop Asking for suspensions.
If anything they should remove the gains.
As a player I expect anything I do ingame to be working as intended, as an example; if a boss is dropping too much loot, or something, i expect he was meant to, and if I decided to farm said boss, why should I be banned for doing it?

And there is a ray of hope for humanity after all. At last, logic makes its appearance in this thread

p.hurst1b16_ESO

The powerlevelers are a breed unto themselves...

AT FIRST.

Once they hit the top and have no friands to play with they usually start playing an alt and being more sociable because that rush to the end has been accomplished.

Tarwin

I dunno, maybe I just look at gaming differently. I still don't give a rats arse what level people are or how fast they got there. As long as it dosen't affect my gameplay I'm ok. There will always be someone higher level, geared better, and sexier than me