Could a 5th stage of vampirism "solve" the vampire problem?

Neferath

Well before i begin let me state out clearly that i am a vampire, always was (Morrowind, Oblivion,Skyrim) and will be.

But i never liked the Bethesda concept of getting stronger the longer i don't feed, actually the opposite should be the case. Also i think one of the reasons for seeing that many vampires out there (despite the obvious like bugged mist form or people unwilling/unable to use warriors guild skills in order to hunt down vampires during pvp) is that beeing at vampirism stage 4, literally beeing totally out of blood and starving, doesn't have an impact that really forces us to feed again. Actually we are able to compensate the lowered health reg if not to say "negate" it.

Therefore i think a 5th stage of vampirism could help to get along with the current problem of every second pvp player, playing as a vampire.

Introducing a 5th stage of vampirism could look like this:

Vampirism Stage 5
- Duration: 24 hours
- 100 % health regeneration, cost of vampire abilities are reduced by 60%
- if you dont feed during these 24 hours, your armor and magical resistance will be reduced by 95 %, health, magica and stamina will be set to 100 each.

Making us vampires to literally 1 hit kills if we don't feed during these last 24 hours, forcing us to return to our starter regions and hope that nothing hits us till we feed, would make the original intended drawback of beeing out of blood really to a drawback. It would give blood and the feeding in general a lot or meaning. It would also solve the problem that currently no vampire at all cares about feeding since they can be stronger if they go without blood the whole time and last but not least, it would make people think twice about how desirable it is to become a vampire at all.

Thanks for participating,
Neferath

ChampionSheWolf

This is the greatest nonsense i've ever heard.

No what needs to be fixed are the obvious overpowered traits for PvP, the easy to spam bat swarm healing power along with mist form combo. This is why a bunch of people go vamp, it isn't because the penalties are lackluster, far from it. The penalties are practically negated because of how easy specific combinations are with vamps, where as werewolves always have a penalty, and any bonus they might receive, especially in PvP, would be short lived, at best, and over all makes you weaker if you even try to wolf out.

Vamps have quite a few lifelines, werewolves have none, sadly.

Tonturri

We should wait for bugs to be fixed before suggesting more stuff.

Ethromelb14_ESO

This could be a solution.

I like the idea. I too have always hated the stage effects set by Bethesda, and have many a times requested for its revamp (pun intended).

I think a more forgiving solution could also be for Zenimax to program a notification in the game the tells a vampire player that 'You start to feel the affects of not having eaten in over 4 days, and the sun is starting to burn are feeling weak'. The player would then start to notice their health being drained gradually.

I always loved the level of realism Oblivion incorporated to the lore when it had the sun burning effect. While it may have been annoying to some, they could not deny that they understood the hassle of being a vampire; and many opted out of having the disease because it was too hard to manage. I think playing as a vampire or werewolf should be somewhat difficult and for the more skilled players that can handle it.

By taking this approach, players playing as a vampire will not only feel like real vampires (role-play wise) by having to deal with the sun... eventually; but they will be forced to drink blood and take a break from their supernatural max potential. However, it should be noted that if a vamp player does use their drain ability often, it's only fair that it should delay the burning effect of the sun for a short time- helping them get to safety, but once stage 5 vampirism hits- it's full nova baby with continuous burn, no matter what they do or have because after all it's a supernatural weakness. It doesn't have to entirely make sense- it's magic.

Not to mention it would be cool to see someone (that pushed the limits accidentally) running for their lives doing their best impression of the Human Torch.

Once a player allows themselves to reach these stages of danger i.e.- the sun burning them and stage 5, it requires them to sleep in their coffin to heal and revert back to stage 1, good as new. Now that's being a vampire. And what vampire player doesn't want to have a reason to sleep in their coffin once in a while?

This would definitely decrease the vampire player populace, and increase it with players that are truly dedicated to the role. I might add, that it would contribute to the role-playing aspect because just like vampires are known for, players would be constantly trying to come up with ways to deal with our innate weaknesses.

Nox_Aeterna

This is the greatest nonsense i've ever heard.

Fun fact about oblivion that people seem to forget , while the devs did make the sun burn the player , even in the last stage , you could heal more than the sun could damage. Yeah , without even making a build for it , you could walk in the day and just heal youself, because oblivion never tried to stop the mana regen.

Skyrim made possible to the player to feel even less inconvenienced than oblivion. Being a vampire lord did solve many of the problems. Which ... you are in this game, you are clearly a vampire lord if you follow skyrim lore , you just dont get the cool transformation.

Honestly , i dont mind if they try to mess even more with the vampire , but by the end of it , i expect vampires to be totally OP if they are fighting at night and so on. Just adding issues will just get people pissed , not solve the problem.

Many players just want to be vampires , they use the perks that this gives , but would still be vampires even without them. On the other hand , if you just make being a vampire a hard thing , without offering anything in return , you will get people pissed.

Ethromelb14_ESO

This could be a solution.

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Fun fact about oblivion that people seem to forget , while the devs did make the sun burn the player , even in the last stage , you could heal more than the sun could damage. Yeah , without even making a build for it , you could walk in the day and just heal youself, because oblivion never tried to stop the mana regen.

Skyrim made possible to the player to feel even less inconvenienced than oblivion. Being a vampire lord did solve many of the problems. Which ... you are in this game, you are clearly a vampire lord if you follow skyrim lore , you just dont get the cool transformation.

Honestly , i dont mind if they try to mess even more with the vampire , but by the end of it , i expect vampires to be totally OP if they are fighting at night and so on. Just adding issues will just get people pissed , not solve the problem.

Many players just want to be vampires , they use the perks that this gives , but would still be vampires even without them. On the other hand , if you just make being a vampire a hard thing , without offering anything in return , you will get people pissed.

I agree. I believe a vampire player should be OP at night and lessened during the day. Now that's fair. For the longest I've wanted a truly authentic vampire experience, and I think that I can find it here in ESO.

Neferath

This could be a solution.

@‌ cbrown15_ESO

Well Mist Form is going to be fixed anyways, thats for sure and needed without any doubts. But regarding the Bat Swarm spamming, well actually this isnt a vampire problem but a sorcerer problem, since you can only spam it because of the sorcerers passive skills. So actaully a sorc can spam whatever ultimate he/she want's to and the only vamp related problem here again is - mist form wich is broken and will be fixed anyways.

@‌ Ethromelb14_ESO

Yes i would love to see that too But i fear that this would most likely would be a little bit too much since it's way more work to implement something like that into the game rather than just adding this 5th stage and therefore wouldn't be a "quick" solution. But well yes as i said, i would love to see this too.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

This is the greatest nonsense i've ever heard.

PEOPLE ARE VAMPIRES BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE OP.

There is a reason the most played campaign, Auriel's bow is a weapon from the Skyrim VAMPIRE DLC.... please stop asking for nerfs because you see a lot of vampires, because guess what 50% more to fire damage, and weak to fighters guild abilities and -75% hp regain is huge, yet you still saw people wanting to be vampires.

Anzaman

This is the greatest nonsense i've ever heard.

Neferath wrote: »

Introducing a 5th stage of vampirism could look like this:

Vampirism Stage 5
- Duration: 24 hours
- 100 % health regeneration, cost of vampire abilities are reduced by 60%
- if you dont feed during these 24 hours, your armor and magical resistance will be reduced by 95 %, health, magica and stamina will be set to 100 each.

Yeah.... no thanks.

Ethromelb14_ESO

This could be a solution.

@Neferath
Yeah, you're probably right. Well here's to wishful thinking and fingers crossed. The game is still young after all. Personally I'm waiting for it to come to console. I find it easier to play that way.

joshisanonymous

As far as people mentioning how the sun should hurt vampires, they've already built it into the lore that the vampires of this era are not hurt by the sun. There are books in the game that explain how there are different species of vampires.

Hodorius

This could be a solution.

This is so nonsens!
Forcing an Edward to drink blood in order to not become weak...
Where the hell did this idea come from?

Everyone knows that blood is poisonous for Edwards and if they avoid that they become stronger and stronger...

reagen_lionel

This could be a solution.

I agree. It doesnt really make much sense for a vampire to get stronger the longer it goes without feeding.

It kind of goes against the very concept of being a vampire.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

This is the greatest nonsense i've ever heard.

reagen_lionel wrote: »

I agree. It doesnt really make much sense for a vampire to get stronger the longer it goes without feeding.

It kind of goes against the very concept of being a vampire.

How exactly is -75% hp regain stronger.

Neferath

This could be a solution.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

reagen_lionel wrote: »

I agree. It doesnt really make much sense for a vampire to get stronger the longer it goes without feeding.

It kind of goes against the very concept of being a vampire.

How exactly is -75% hp regain stronger.

Well since we are able to counter / negate the - 75% health reg, especially at higher levels, all whats left is a 60% cost reduction for vampire abilites. Therefore, actually we are stronger at vamp stage 4.

AlexDougherty

This does nothing to solve the problem about imbalances, it just forces players to feed on NPCs once a day.

The problem is that Vampires get a load of bonuses and little or no drawbacks, Werewolves get a handful of advantages but these are limited in scope, and more disadvantages. Meanwhile those who choose to pursue neither line find themselves outpowered by both vamps and weres.

What they need to do is recode both Vampires and Werewolves, and rebalance them against the game.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

This is the greatest nonsense i've ever heard.

Neferath wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

reagen_lionel wrote: »

I agree. It doesnt really make much sense for a vampire to get stronger the longer it goes without feeding.

It kind of goes against the very concept of being a vampire.

How exactly is -75% hp regain stronger.

Well since we are able to counter / negate the - 75% health reg, especially at higher levels, all whats left is a 60% cost reduction for vampire abilites. Therefore, actually we are stronger at vamp stage 4.

" counter" so while you are building against it other players are building the same basically having more hp regain.

a11051605

This is the greatest nonsense i've ever heard.

Go back 2 twillight. Srsly bad idea... 5th stage of suck? GTFO. Horrible idea and I could care less about it making you weaker or stronger or w/e through ur stages i remain in stage 4 cause I dont care to take the time to feed and could care less about the "lore" behind it. Lame idea for lame RPers.

The_Sadist

This is the greatest nonsense i've ever heard.

.. Horrible idea.

Vampires are meant to get stronger as the blood lust takes over, not weaker.

reagen_lionel

This could be a solution.

The_Sadist wrote: »

.. Horrible idea.

Vampires are meant to get stronger as the blood lust takes over, not weaker.

That would make sense, IF a vampire feeds on a regular basis. A vampire that has not fed in months could still be as strong as a titan. Where a freshly fed vampire would be significantly weaker.

Its really all in reverse order.

Omniphonic

Hah! You folks and your 'ppl just want to be vamp, has nothing to do with power' don't really believe yourselves, do you? If ppl were becoming vamps en masse because of roleplaying reasons and not because of the added skill-set, than why have I seen exactly 0 players fishing for 'role-playing purposes'? Oh, maybe because fishing doesn't get you jack while being a vamp does? Maybe if catching enough fish granted the character the 'fish-form' ability that allowed them to rapidly swim up any stream while being invincible and instantly killing any other player that so much as looks at them for longer than 3 seconds at a time...

It's just a consequence of their not being enough alternative world/guild skill lines. Hopefully that gets expanded in time. If enough people are willing to forego a mallus to gain certain benefits, then obviously the mallus is not enough to counterbalance the benefit. I don't think the WW or Vamp systems are handled very elegantly in ESO, probably a consequence of the game being rushed. Hopefully in the future they become more of a signature of distinction and less another rung on the power ladder.

Neferath

This could be a solution.

a11051605 wrote: »

Go back 2 twillight. Srsly bad idea... 5th stage of suck? GTFO. Horrible idea and I could care less about it making you weaker or stronger or w/e through ur stages i remain in stage 4 cause I dont care to take the time to feed and could care less about the "lore" behind it. Lame idea for lame RPers.

And exactly this is the problem here. Beeing a vampire you shouldnt be allowed to "dont care to take the time to feed".

The Vampire stages are part of our weaknesses in this game and at the moment no one cares about that since you can easily negate it, therefore it isnt a weakness or drawback at all. As long as this isnt changing, i totally understand that non vamps see an unbalnce here since we actually end up with the benefits of beeing a vamp without any drawbacks. At least no drawbacks we would need to care about.

@‌ ArtsOfficialNipple

Um well ... i'am fishing, sometimes even for roleplaying reasons

The_Sadist

This is the greatest nonsense i've ever heard.

reagen_lionel wrote: »

The_Sadist wrote: »

.. Horrible idea.

Vampires are meant to get stronger as the blood lust takes over, not weaker.

That would make sense, IF a vampire feeds on a regular basis. A vampire that has not fed in months could still be as strong as a titan. Where a freshly fed vampire would be significantly weaker.

Its really all in reverse order.

And if the order was reversed the situation would be the same. In terms of the Elder Scrolls series the hungrier your vampire was the stronger it became, so it makes sense for ESO.

Actually reversing the order might be a good idea as it forces an individual to feed regularly (I'd change the time between stages though) which would mean actually engaging with your vampire and whatnot to keep it optimal. The less you feed the more strength you lose.
I can see something along the lines of stamina based bonuses for being well fed and healthy whereas your vampiric powers increase when you're starved but you're weaker (like currently with the health regeneration, seriously this has killed me once or twice).

Alexium

I don't care at all.

There are no reason for feeding now. Dialogues? No! Sun damage? No! Maybe we are need a fire weakness work as a health regen? If you starved, you gain more fire damage. Maybe. And I agree with an idea mightly-vampires at nights, and weakly at day.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

This is the greatest nonsense i've ever heard.

If your excuse is the bat spam then the solution is called nerf emperor trait nerf akaviri dragonguard gear set and nerf seducer... end of the problem!

And since we at it make sorce ult trait reduction work only for daedric magic stop putting the blame on something that work as intended vampirism doesn't need a nerf it needs a bug fix to stage 4!

WW needs a major buff the reason why people don't use it is not because its weaker then vamp alone its because its totally unreliable regardless of build.
A vamp ultimate costing 80 at stage 4 is totally acceptable stop telling out bad excuse to nerf something wich is actualy ok.

I agree however stage needs a balancing so I propose they give vampire fire weakness removal when on stage 1 and increment trought the stage while giving frost resistance as the stages advance (like in oblivion) + the current bonuses.
That way vamp have an incentive to feed other then the yet non present crime and justice system wich likely set the guards on us at stage 4.

Why am I gimping myself with fire weakness and nonexistant regeneration out of combat if im not by default stronguer then a normal character do please tell me.

You people have reason to be jealous but we vampire live with this sacrifice and don't deserve to pay up for it more then we do now, I would even call for adding new vampire power!

Also about RP any evil mastermind worth is salt will either be a vampire a lich or a werewolf on rampage. Regardless a evil mastermind will rarely let the weak body of a mortal hinder him

shinkicker444rwb17_ESO

I've never liked the vampire stages in TES games. To me, it should be the more you feed the stronger you get.

Something like;

Stage 1: Normal cost and damage.
Stage 2: -25% costs and -20% damage.
Stage 3: -50% costs and -35% damage.
Stage 4: -75% costs and -50% damage.

Can still spam the ultimate, but you'd hit like a wet noodle. Basically you're getting desperate for a feed, but not quite strong enough to be truly effective.

Hodorius

This could be a solution.

I gave this thing a thought...

It is complete okay if a vamp gets stronger when he gets hungry...
She/he is about to starve and it´s "realistic" to get stronger now.
Killing a bunch if noobs who refuse to use Silver Bolts is 100% fine.

But they should be forced by the game to feed.
Hungry vamps starve and die if they dont get any food...

Can we at least agree that a hungry and ferocious vamp who cant starve to "death" is against any lore out there?

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

This is the greatest nonsense i've ever heard.

Wouldnt this do nothing but make them MEGA op for 24 hours, then they would simply feed when the time is almost up? Want to fix vampires? Give them sun damage at all stages! Or even if they dont outright take damage at day time, make them much MUCH weaker during day. Like no regen of any kind at stage 4 and higher damage taken from all types. They are creatures of the night and that should mean something!

Also to combat vampires they could just buff fighters guild. Give all fg skills a new unresistable damage type like "sun damage" that is 50% stronger against deadra/undead. That way even if they put all fire resist on their gear they wont be able to counter vampire hunters and that is how it should be. Predator > prey not prey > predator. Make the vampires fear a fully decked out fg member!

ArgonianAssassin

This is the greatest nonsense i've ever heard.

No, make stages 1-3 worth feeding for, with their own bonuses and downsides instead of adding another stage that FORCES you to feed.

ArgonianAssassin

This is the greatest nonsense i've ever heard.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Wouldnt this do nothing but make them MEGA op for 24 hours, then they would simply feed when the time is almost up? Want to fix vampires? Give them sun damage at all stages! Or even if they dont outright take damage at day time, make them much MUCH weaker during day. Like no regen of any kind at stage 4 and higher damage taken from all types. They are creatures of the night and that should mean something!

Also to combat vampires they could just buff fighters guild. Give all fg skills a new unresistable damage type like "sun damage" that is 50% stronger against deadra/undead. That way even if they put all fire resist on their gear they wont be able to counter vampire hunters and that is how it should be. Predator > prey not prey > predator. Make the vampires fear a fully decked out fg member!

Okay, but then we need a way to pick out fighter's guild members, they have a way to pick us out of a crowd, why should they just blend in AND be super OP against us?

oldkye

This is the greatest nonsense i've ever heard.

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Wouldnt this do nothing but make them MEGA op for 24 hours, then they would simply feed when the time is almost up? Want to fix vampires? Give them sun damage at all stages! Or even if they dont outright take damage at day time, make them much MUCH weaker during day. Like no regen of any kind at stage 4 and higher damage taken from all types. They are creatures of the night and that should mean something!

Also to combat vampires they could just buff fighters guild. Give all fg skills a new unresistable damage type like "sun damage" that is 50% stronger against deadra/undead. That way even if they put all fire resist on their gear they wont be able to counter vampire hunters and that is how it should be. Predator > prey not prey > predator. Make the vampires fear a fully decked out fg member!

Okay, but then we need a way to pick out fighter's guild members, they have a way to pick us out of a crowd, why should they just blend in AND be super OP against us?

Since vampire hunters are technically just human(though in reality here you can be a vampire and a vampire hunter) they really shouldn't be distinguishable from a crowed however they can be seen the same way non-fighters guild players see vampires by their abilities.

Once they start throwing out silver bolts should be pretty clear they have that what could be fun is a ability to smell non-vampires by their blood giving them a red highlight or something and to expand letting werewolfs and vampires be able to smell each others too this would be a significant plus in PvP and also make for great roll playing and sense of brotherhood.