Beware the forums...

bugulu

While @d0e1ow put it blunty, he does have a key point.
For every constructive post you see in the forums, there are 99 posts that literally have no feedback except that X sucks, threatening to unsub the game and other gibberish talk.

Remember that there's a difference between whining and a constructive post. Whining will rarely change the developers mind, no matter how much you try to bend it to your favour.
Majority of those changes people are talking about that changed due to forum posts was not changed because of the mass postings about people posting +1, nodding in approval and nonsense posts, but had it backed up by a forum poster either taking the time to put the issue in such a way that it can't be ignored (For example, number crunching) and deserves the developers attention.
Just because there's no moderator post in a thread doesn't mean it haven't gone unread, I'm certain that most of the topics here are read by the moderators within 12 hours and all topics are read at the latest a day after the post.

We can take an example and you can see the difference between a constructive post and a whining post.

1. The ability X is not working properly. It's supposed to give x% increased movement speed and whilst it does apply to normal movement speed, you are not getting any increased movement speed while crouching.
2. X ability sucks. NO movement speed increase crouching, FIX it!


While both points show that there's something wrong with the ability, the first point will always be looked upon in favour compared to the second point.
I was kind now though, the second point was a somewhat constructive post (though the phrasing could have been better).
There's plenty of posts out there (just look at the vampire discussions) that doesn't have a single suggestion in there except that it's broken.

Sydänyö

d0e1ow wrote: »

A Diablo 3 Forum Veteran

Two years of forums a veteran makes you not.

I'm not saying you're wrong in all of your points, but most of us here have been using forums for two years, while some of us have been using different kinds of forums for as many as twenty years. The points you bring up are a just a tad obvious, and not all exactly correct, and as such they don't warrant the arrogant and condescending tone you posted this thread with.

Helping new players is one thing. Being condescending and insulting towards them is another.

The reason I'm posting this is simply to point out that the sooner you realize you've got a long way to go still to reach a "veteran" forum user status, the better off you'll be. Chill out, cool down, understand that you're not the authority or the person leading the way. People are going to come and go, they're going to post however they please, and it's the moderators who keep things balanced.

Other than that, keep posting. You'll reach that coveted "veteran" status one day.

KerinKor

d0e1ow wrote: »

Leave. Cus all your tears ain't gonna change a thing

Whilst you may want to believe that history contains examples of fundamental game changes made due to forum QQ in WOW, LOTRO and Rift that I can recall seeing first-hand, there's also plenty of anecdotal evidence of other games where forum QQ did achieve changes to what the developers had said would 'never' happen: even now Blizzard are preparing a u-turn on their original plan to eliminate flying in the next expansion 'forever', solely due to a massive outcry on the forums.

Obviously the devs are going to try to appear unmoved by 'unconstructive' complaints but words and actions are often widely at variance .. it's too early to tell if ZOS are going to fall in line with Blizzard, Trion and others.

nhisso

Zeni has responded to the forums several times. Fail troll is fail.

Crumpy

It's a video game forum what do you people expect, seriously? Why get so bothered about it? Who gives a ***? I just read for the fun comments, silly whines and pompous asses (no names mentioned).

Selstad

You're a "D3 forum veteran" yet you haven't experienced changes done to the game through the forums?

Diablo 3 has had a lot of changes done to it based on the feedback from the forums. The auction house and the way loot is handled are 2 examples of feedback that they have gotten through the forums and changed accordingly.

World of Warcraft also have changes done based on the feedback they've gotten from the forums. Many features we take for granted in WoW now, started as an addon, per example combat text and dungeon journal. They were added to the game by Blizzard in their own version, based on general demand from the forums and feedback there.

Runescape - though many laugh about the game - is another example of game company taking the forums into account when developing. Numerous changes have been made to the game based on feedback from people on the forum.

We already see that feedback made to Zenimax has changed a few things in the game. One example here is price on C.O.D mail which is now at an appropriate level. And the balance done to vampires, also based on feedback from the forums.

So saying that giving feedback on the forums doesn't do anything, is just plain wrong.

There are many threads made that aren't very constructive in terms of development, and general feedback about the game and changes that needs to be done. The sweet irony is that this thread is one of them.

Nox_Aeterna

Man , i just could not do it , i find D3 to be really , really boring now.

I mean , i played back when it first came out for 2/3 weeks , and i had fun , yes , there were many problems , but ok.

So even knowing about the issues the game got now , i decided to buy RoS , and ... i could not even get my crusader to 70.

I could barely stay awake while playing. And none of my friends even wanted to buy RoS , because of the whole BoP stuff.

ExiledKhallisi

Just came here to tell you Path of Exile is everything D3 was supposed to be And better.

Silkesh

The OP is right, but it is true for any forum on the internet, not only for games forums: the price to pay for staying anonymous on the internet.

But there is a famous quote that I will slightly adapt here saying that "all needed for trolls and forum haters to prevail is for positive people to post nothing".

I tend to think there needs to be some positive people to counteract the negativity of the haters, even if the impact of one hater is generally stronger than the impact of one positive player. Hopefully, many MMO players avoid official forums and are not impacted by all this negativity.

Coggage

d0e1ow wrote: »

There is no singular thing within a game's little ecosystem that will convince you that you hate the game, hate your life, and hate everyone around you faster than the game's official forums will.

When you've been around a bit longer you will come to understand that web forums never represent the actual state of the game OR the current player base. Forums should never be regarded as significant in any way. It has ever been thus since 1998.

Kililin

You should compare whines and nerfs in the past month, it looks like it works quite well.

Nox_Aeterna

Kililin wrote: »

You should compare whines and nerfs in the past month, it looks like it works quite well.

Mate , it usually does , bolt escape is going down.

So hey , enjoy the time left :P.

Well , to fair , i also think they could just give everyone a similar skill on another skill tree. That would be resonable.

zaria

Selstad wrote: »

You're a "D3 forum veteran" yet you haven't experienced changes done to the game through the forums?

Diablo 3 has had a lot of changes done to it based on the feedback from the forums. The auction house and the way loot is handled are 2 examples of feedback that they have gotten through the forums and changed accordingly.

World of Warcraft also have changes done based on the feedback they've gotten from the forums. Many features we take for granted in WoW now, started as an addon, per example combat text and dungeon journal. They were added to the game by Blizzard in their own version, based on general demand from the forums and feedback there.

Runescape - though many laugh about the game - is another example of game company taking the forums into account when developing. Numerous changes have been made to the game based on feedback from people on the forum.

We already see that feedback made to Zenimax has changed a few things in the game. One example here is price on C.O.D mail which is now at an appropriate level. And the balance done to vampires, also based on feedback from the forums.

So saying that giving feedback on the forums doesn't do anything, is just plain wrong.

There are many threads made that aren't very constructive in terms of development, and general feedback about the game and changes that needs to be done. The sweet irony is that this thread is one of them.

Obviously, the forums mostly help highlight problems, CoD mail and the vampire issues might pass beta testing but shows up in mass use. If lots of people complains it goes higher up in the todo queue.

Same with lots of other issues who is in the coming soon list.

Sarenia

Chryos wrote: »

@ "A Diablo 3 Forum Veteran"

Have a cookie. Sounds like you do a lot more than pat yourself on the back. Hypocritical.

Her thread is from last month and hasn't had a bump in weeks. How did you even find it? Did you search for "beware"? lol

BETAOPTICS

Well aren't you contradicting your own post there. Accusing others but you aren't any better than they are. You forgot that the forums always attracts entitled players from all sides and use toxic poison behavior to each other.

On the sidenote, you mentioned that if you dislike the game, then leave it, leave the forums. No, well not in a way. You know, there was a interview for quite a while ago where they interviewed game developers Zenimax employees included and the point of the interview was to find out what kind of players are the most useful players.

You know what they said? The ones that constructively criticize their games. Because in order for you to be able to know what to fix or improve, you need to know what to focus on at first and in order for that information to come forth, you need fans that care enough to criticize the game. Indeed though, the criticism has to be constructive, informative, justified and reasonable.

The worst players categorized were what people call " fanboys " because they provide nothing than adoration and while it is nice to get adoration from the fans, they don't help the game become any better and they even attack then useful posts and try to hide all the useful information from the players giving them to their developers.

So if you are planning on quitting and still care about the game. Create a feedback post for future hopes and goals for the developers to focus on and come back as a silent player to check where the game is now and then from time to times. Do not leave instantly, do not use insults or just state you are leaving. No one cares if you just say you will be leaving, you are not that special and you are not helping anyone by stating it. ZoS indeed sees if you are inactive.

Gohlar

d0e1ow wrote: »

Newsflash: angry posts and youtube review rants never changed anything.

They completely changed, and saved, Diablo 3. I don't want to argue because I like where you're coming from, but it's true. One of Blizzard's strengths is adapting to it's audience and they've said that feedback on forums has always been important.

fredarbonab14_ESO

Hmmm..another drama thread.

Khazaad

@d0e1ow‌ I hate to admit it but I genuinely believe the community had something to do with my cessation of D3. Gamers are some of the most cynical, insatiable, self-entitling people on the planet. The D3 player base were some of the worst. I mean... brats.

This community has some good momentum to become ranked. A little more thread management could help manage the pollution around here. In the mean time, I'll continue to render vigilante justice and troll whiners.

Moonscythe

So, I read the bumped discussion. I disliked Diablo III at first but am really enjoying the revised edition. I was, however, wise enough to stay away from that forum. ESO, is only my second MMO (I played Diablo privately). I did read the official forum on LOTRO and found it to be helpful and friendly do the OP's experience is not universal. LOTRO is however a mature (age wise) game and I came in after it was FtP in starter areas. (full disclosure - I have a Mac and that was the first opportunity for me to play at all). I expect there was some gnashing of teeth there when it went FtP and I didn't play long so my exposure to the forum was brief. My experience on the Xbox Skyrim forum has also been pleasant.

With that behind me my travels through this forum has been more akin to a lurid soap opera. It is amusing if one doesn't get too involved or take things personally. BTW, the OP said nothing about quitting the game or encouraging others to "vote with their wallet" and quit. The little fox said leave the forums and is as entitled to that opinion as the many who have been hating on him/her/it.

RazzPitazz

Different devs handle forums differently. I remember Bungie forums. Those were some of the most unmitigated, hateful posts I had ever read from trolls to elitists. Bungie never changed a thing based on those forums, they changed based on in-game data (like most devs). Then I moved to RIOT forums, where the same thing occurred but was met with about 30% constructive threads. Not all of those were well thought out but it was nice not to see hate everywhere. However RIOT took exceedingly great interest in those ideas, implimented quite a few that they felt would work or would have no detrimental effect on the game. We will see how ZoS will handle these foirums when we see major content shifts.

keylargo

Greydog wrote: »

To be fair, @d0e1ow is correct. Not because his view of others opinions is valid ..but because dev's know that forum posters are the vocal minority in any game. Sometimes an issue will bring on a flood of players out of the game and into the forum. But the greater amount of threads are noted and set aside.

If you really want them to know your opinions you need to use the in-game /feedback tools ..and then yes, speak with your wallet when the time comes.

QFE...I could not agree more.

Armitas

Moonscythe wrote: »

So, I read the bumped discussion. I disliked Diablo III at first but am really enjoying the revised edition. I was, however, wise enough to stay away from that forum. ESO, is only my second MMO (I played Diablo privately). I did read the official forum on LOTRO and found it to be helpful and friendly do the OP's experience is not universal. LOTRO is however a mature (age wise) game and I came in after it was FtP in starter areas. (full disclosure - I have a Mac and that was the first opportunity for me to play at all). I expect there was some gnashing of teeth there when it went FtP and I didn't play long so my exposure to the forum was brief. My experience on the Xbox Skyrim forum has also been pleasant.

With that behind me my travels through this forum has been more akin to a lurid soap opera. It is amusing if one doesn't get too involved or take things personally. BTW, the OP said nothing about quitting the game or encouraging others to "vote with their wallet" and quit. The little fox said leave the forums and is as entitled to that opinion as the many who have been hating on him/her/it.

I had the same experience as you. When D3 first came out it was more of a diablo spin off than D3. I'm sure Jay Wilson is a capable guy in his own sphere, but he was not the right guy for that job. He took everything that made D2 good and didn't put it into the game. But D3 is fantastic now, I only wish the expansion came out earlier so I could have played it while waiting for ESO.

Sapience has done an amazing job on the Lotro forums. The Lotro community has been rated number 1 several times now. Great bunch of people. I think Jessica has done equally well here. Even though there is a zeitgeist* of obsessing about any class but ones own that plays out quite dramatically it is a pretty clean forum. It stands out as mature against many other MMO forums in my mind. Might even give Lotro some competition for that award.

(*referring to the, at this point subjective, question of who is the real most powerful class for x. I am not referring to broken class skills up or down)

FrauPerchta

Unfortunately moaning, groaning and whining on company boards is often was too effective. What do you think brings about nerfs, re-balancing and far too often basic changes to the game itself that sporks the gaming experience so bad it falls into oblivion (no pun intended)

Morrawind

leonardo.contrerasviub17_ESO wrote: »

oh god you still play D3?



=D

I have actually ended my teso sub and bought reaper of souls
Will see in a couple of months if teso has improved.

Audigy

Morrawind wrote: »

leonardo.contrerasviub17_ESO wrote: »

oh god you still play D3?



=D

I have actually ended my teso sub and bought reaper of souls
Will see in a couple of months if teso has improved.

Have fun with D3, I decided to cancel ROS to play TESO as I am not happy with the way ROS is going to play out in the end with Ladders and Clan trading

If you liked D2 however, then ROS is your game

Khazaad

keylargo wrote: »

Greydog wrote: »

To be fair, @d0e1ow is correct. Not because his view of others opinions is valid ..but because dev's know that forum posters are the vocal minority in any game. Sometimes an issue will bring on a flood of players out of the game and into the forum. But the greater amount of threads are noted and set aside.

If you really want them to know your opinions you need to use the in-game /feedback tools ..and then yes, speak with your wallet when the time comes.

QFE...I could not agree more.

Vocal minority, eh? I suppose the President ignores the House of Representatives because by your definition, they're a vocal minority, right? Like there's a whole other mass of independent and unique issues being raised, considered, and resolved only through the in game submission medium. Puhleease.

I hope you're happy, you just made @keylargo‌ dumber.

SDZald

The forums are awful, don't read, don't post, and oh do as I say not as I do.

That about sums it up.

Khazaad

bugulu wrote: »

.. Whining will rarely change the developers mind, no matter how much you try to bend it to your favour..

Untrue. As annoying as it is if you're disinterested in whatever is on the table, massive volumes of whining are often the only way TO get something accomplished. What is a public protest if not a collective of dissatisfied voices?

The population of people who find botting to be intolerable is close to the total population itself. Get that sort of momentum regarding wearable cloaks, you'll get wearable cloaks.

RianaTheBosmer

Honestly, I don't agree with your post to a great extent. The devs, I believe, will do the right thing and not allow non subscribers to post. That will diminish many of the whining posts.

I also love the hell out of this game and think the devs did a good job on it except for 2 things. 1) They need to re-evaluate the in game costs. They are prohibitive. 2) The dungeons need an over haul. We ran a pub dungeon last night, the one with the ogres and it was a blast but they all need that kind of depth, that kind of challenge and that kind of fun. I also think they'll revisit them and give us more of a challenge.

I haven't seen vet content but I travel in a pack and we do the content together so we'll be there to have each others' backs but I have seen some good feedback posted on vet content along with the whining and I think eventually, the devs will fix those issues too.

I do think though that your criticism is harsh. One more thing, they could do better in making the forums but I don't think there is anyone who can't figure out what to post where.

Melian

Jake71887 wrote: »

I'm confused... First you say we can't get them to change the game in the ways we want cause "ultimately the devs are going to do what they want when, they want, and how they want".

And then you advocate protest by speaking with our wallet?

How about spending your money on things you like, not as a protest, but, you know, because you enjoy them? How about not worrying about the fact that games exist that you, personally, do not like?

I know, I know, it sounds crazy...