Beware the forums...

d0e1ow

Hi, ESO forums!

I'm from another game, a game called "Diablo 3". You see, I've played Diablo 3 since the day it launched, and let me tell you, I've heard it all. I've heard the tinfoil hat conspiracy theories, I've heard the Youtube reviewer guy who bashes the game, I've read the rage quits, I've read the developers make false promises, I've read the predictions about the game failing and becoming a "ghost town".

I've even been mocked for admitting that I play Diablo 3. Yep.

You know, over the course of what's almost 2 years now of D3 forum-going, I've learned a few things. Maybe the most important is this:

There is no singular thing within a game's little ecosystem that will convince you that you hate the game, hate your life, and hate everyone around you faster than the game's official forums will.

For some reason, company run forums for games seem to attract the worst of the worst of the worst people. Even I have been guilty of declaring the end-times on the Blizzard forums. I've been guilty of all the crimes known to posters, but in the end, I reformed myself and realized how negative the forums were making me.

So, as this game comes out, and sees a big polarity in reactions (people seem to either love it or hate it), keep my advice in mind. If you enjoy this game in any capacity, leave the forums because all you'll find here is general woe and angst and drama.

If you dislike the game, then leave the forums as well and do something else with your time. All you will do here is sow discord in other people, upset yourself further, and waste your time disliking something that will, probably , never change in any substantial way.

You can get all upset with me and say "BUT IF WE DUN KUMPLAIN NUTTIN WIL CHAYNGEEEE"

Newsflash: angry posts and youtube review rants never changed anything.

Your few constructive posters will reach through to Zenimax, but ultimately the devs are going to do what they want when, they want, and how they want. Don't like it?

Leave. Cus all your tears ain't gonna change a thing, and most of you will never post in a manner deemed constructive enough to be considered noteworthy by the devs. Hard truth.

Signed,

A Diablo 3 Forum Veteran

Jake71887

You obviously haven't played many MMOs.... Mass tears can move mountains :P

Sarenia

d0e1ow wrote: »

Hi, ESO forums!
[...]
Newsflash: angry posts and youtube review rants never changed anything.

d0e1ow wrote: »

Leave. Cus all your tears ain't gonna change a thing[...]

Irony.

d0e1ow

Jake71887 wrote: »

You obviously haven't played many MMOs.... Mass tears can move mountains :P

If you say so. The "mass tears" regarding the very fundamentals of the game i.e.: the game's quest design, the game's world construction, the game's phasing aren't going to affect anything in any noticeable amount of time.

You're better of speaking with your wallet and walking away if you really hate it so much. They aren't going to re-envision anything in this game in any drastic manner until -at least- the first expansion.

Jake71887

d0e1ow wrote: »

If you say so. The "mass tears" regarding the very fundamentals of the game i.e.: the game's quest design, the game's world construction, the game's phasing aren't going to affect anything in any noticeable amount of time.

You're better of speaking with your wallet and walking away if you really hate it so much. They aren't going to re-envision anything in this game in any drastic manner until -at least- the first expansion.

I'm confused... First you say we can't get them to change the game in the ways we want cause "ultimately the devs are going to do what they want when, they want, and how they want".

And then you advocate protest by speaking with our wallet?

d0e1ow

Jake71887 wrote: »

d0e1ow wrote: »

If you say so. The "mass tears" regarding the very fundamentals of the game i.e.: the game's quest design, the game's world construction, the game's phasing aren't going to affect anything in any noticeable amount of time.

You're better of speaking with your wallet and walking away if you really hate it so much. They aren't going to re-envision anything in this game in any drastic manner until -at least- the first expansion.

I'm confused... First you say we can't get them to change the game in the ways we want cause "ultimately the devs are going to do what they want when, they want, and how they want".

And then you advocate protest by speaking with our wallet?

I'm not going to answer you if you're going to resort to being obtuse and misrepresenting what I've so obviously and clearly said.

Sarenia

d0e1ow wrote: »

[...]

d0e1ow wrote: »

[...]
Newsflash: angry posts and youtube review rants never changed anything.

Heeding your own advice I see.

Jake71887

d0e1ow wrote: »

I'm not going to answer you if you're going to resort to being obtuse and misrepresenting what I've so obviously and clearly said.

So instead, you flat-out refuse to engage in civil discussion, and then add insults...

REAL mature.

d0e1ow

Sarenia wrote: »

d0e1ow wrote: »

[...]

d0e1ow wrote: »

[...]
Newsflash: angry posts and youtube review rants never changed anything.

Heeding your own advice I see.

I'm not crying over the game, so yeah, I am. I'm under no false impression that my rabble rousing on the Zenimax forums (which are terribly designed btw) will change the game in any noticeable fashion.

d0e1ow

Jake71887 wrote: »

d0e1ow wrote: »

I'm not going to answer you if you're going to resort to being obtuse and misrepresenting what I've so obviously and clearly said.

So instead, you flat-out refuse to engage in civil discussion, and then add insults...

REAL mature.

I never claimed to be mature. I claimed to understand that rabble rousing on the forums doesn't really do anything.

Leovolao

oh god you still play D3?



=D

d0e1ow

leonardo.contrerasviub17_ESO wrote: »

oh god you still play D3?



=D

Lol... yeah... geez, I can't even believe it sometimes. I picked this up after reading on the MMO-Champ forums that people were having fun. I hated on this game hard during it's development.

Still think their CE Imperial race was a scum move, but overall the game seems pretty swell.

Guess how surprised I was when I came on these forums and realized they were as big a ***-storm as any Blizzard forum.

Jake71887

d0e1ow wrote: »

I never claimed to be mature. I claimed to understand that rabble rousing on the forums doesn't really do anything.

Based on your experience in one game's forums? If you've played more than just Diablo 3, and visited the forums for those games... You'd see that Devs frequently make changes based on player's feedback(Quite frequently to the detriment of the game).

d0e1ow

Jake71887 wrote: »

d0e1ow wrote: »

I never claimed to be mature. I claimed to understand that rabble rousing on the forums doesn't really do anything.

Based on your experience in one game's forums? If you've played more than just Diablo 3, and visited the forums for those games... You'd see that Devs frequently make changes based on player's feedback(Quite frequently to the detriment of the game).

And I acknowledged that your little community will undoubtedly have the few (I'm talking maybe 3 tops) posters that actually do their homework, take data, crunch numbers, etc.

These people will write stellar posts every now and then that change the face of the forums for a minute and the devs read it and everyone feels good. Those people get noticed.

The majority of posts are people wondering if the game is going F2P, how many people will unsubscribe, "it's not Skyrim enough", "the grafix", "BUT ANGRY JOE!"... That's the majority. It always has been, it always will be.

You don't have to take it personally unless you want to. Obviously I've really upset you.

The fact is, most posts on this forum, including this one, serve as roadblocks to your enjoyment of the game and/or life. They aren't constructive, they aren't insightful, they aren't helpful. They certainly don't offer any kinds of good ideas. Posting about your "feels" isn't posting good feedback. It's being vague, subjective, and at best, appealing to some kind of nebulous sentiment that other forum goers will have some kind of solace in.

At the end of the day it's all worth nothing.

Leovolao

d0e1ow wrote: »

leonardo.contrerasviub17_ESO wrote: »

oh god you still play D3?



=D

Lol... yeah... geez, I can't even believe it sometimes. I picked this up after reading on the MMO-Champ forums that people were having fun. I hated on this game hard during it's development.

Still think their CE Imperial race was a scum move, but overall the game seems pretty swell.

Guess how surprised I was when I came on these forums and realized they were as big a ***-storm as any Blizzard forum.

Haven't played D3 since the reflect damage mobs cry from all the DHs and mages... did they finally implement pvp or are they still with the brawling ***?

And don't be surprise man, the internet is the only place in the world where everybody acts like they are 80 feet tall and can get the job done better than anyone else.

Jake71887

d0e1ow wrote: »

And I acknowledged that your little community will undoubtedly have the few (I'm talking maybe 3 tops) posters that actually do their homework, take data, crunch numbers, etc.

These people will write stellar posts every now and then that change the face of the forums for a minute and the devs read it and everyone feels good. Those people get noticed.

The majority of posts are people wondering if the game is going F2P, how many people will unsubscribe, "it's not Skyrim enough", "the grafix", "BUT ANGRY JOE!"... That's the majority. It always has been, it always will be.

You don't have to take it personally unless you want to. Obviously I've really upset you.

The fact is, most posts on this forum, including this one, serve as roadblocks to your enjoyment of the game and/or life. They aren't constructive, they aren't insightful, they aren't helpful. They certainly don't offer any kinds of good ideas. Posting about your "feels" isn't posting good feedback. It's being vague, subjective, and at best, appealing to some kind of nebulous sentiment that other forum goers will have some kind of solace in.

At the end of the day it's all worth nothing.

Clearly you don't understand my point, or how games work... It doesn't matter if there's constructive posts, if they're helpful, or go beyond people expressing how they feel... In most subscription games, when you have a large portion of the playerbase complaining about something, the devs will make changes to try and quell that outrage.

Game companies aren't quite the deaf ears you portray them to be, and you certainly don't need to try and make statements by cancelling. Cancel your sub if you're not having fun, not to make a point, that's just childish.

d0e1ow

leonardo.contrerasviub17_ESO wrote: »

d0e1ow wrote: »

leonardo.contrerasviub17_ESO wrote: »

oh god you still play D3?



=D

Lol... yeah... geez, I can't even believe it sometimes. I picked this up after reading on the MMO-Champ forums that people were having fun. I hated on this game hard during it's development.

Still think their CE Imperial race was a scum move, but overall the game seems pretty swell.

Guess how surprised I was when I came on these forums and realized they were as big a ***-storm as any Blizzard forum.

Haven't played D3 since the reflect damage mobs cry from all the DHs and mages... did they finally implement pvp or are they still with the brawling ***?

And don't be surprise man, the internet is the only place in the world where everybody acts like they are 80 feet tall and can get the job done better than anyone else.

Still with the pathetic brawling. No one does it. It sucks. They are putting out ladders in a few months with some kind of weird game mode built in... like challenge dungeons I think.

The expansion made the game a lot better unless you were a big fat cat trader and lived on D2JSP. Wutevs. lol

d0e1ow

Jake71887 wrote: »

d0e1ow wrote: »

And I acknowledged that your little community will undoubtedly have the few (I'm talking maybe 3 tops) posters that actually do their homework, take data, crunch numbers, etc.

These people will write stellar posts every now and then that change the face of the forums for a minute and the devs read it and everyone feels good. Those people get noticed.

The majority of posts are people wondering if the game is going F2P, how many people will unsubscribe, "it's not Skyrim enough", "the grafix", "BUT ANGRY JOE!"... That's the majority. It always has been, it always will be.

You don't have to take it personally unless you want to. Obviously I've really upset you.

The fact is, most posts on this forum, including this one, serve as roadblocks to your enjoyment of the game and/or life. They aren't constructive, they aren't insightful, they aren't helpful. They certainly don't offer any kinds of good ideas. Posting about your "feels" isn't posting good feedback. It's being vague, subjective, and at best, appealing to some kind of nebulous sentiment that other forum goers will have some kind of solace in.

At the end of the day it's all worth a shiny fuckle.

Clearly you don't understand my point, or how games work... It doesn't matter if there's constructive posts, if they're helpful, or go beyond people expressing how they feel... In most subscription games, when you have a large portion of the playerbase complaining about something, the devs will make changes to try and quell that outrage.

Game companies aren't quite the deaf ears you portray them to be, and you certainly don't need to try and make statements by cancelling. Cancel your sub if you're not having fun, not to make a point, that's just childish.

I understand your point. I just don't agree with your point. Even you admitted that these changes are often to a game's detriment. Why? Because most people do not know what they want, post nonconstructive, post their "Feels", and offer no real ideas. They are just whiners.

It's like asking someone what they want for dinner and they say "I don't know. I just know that I'm hungry." So you just fix them a dish then they say "THIS SUXXXX!"

That's video game forums in a nutshell. People whining, but they have no solutions. They are unable to offer the developers real tools or things to work off of. Just nebulous feels. Just "I'm hungry" posts.

Like the people who are whining that the game is "single player". Alright, any propositions to how we can remedy that? Of course not. Mostly just rose-tinted nostalgia about the "GOOD OLE DAYS".

If the developers took their posts at face value, with their poverty of ideas, and said "You know what? They want multiplayer? We'll give 'em multiplayer!"

These same people would be OUTRAGED that the game now had forced grouping. Search in your heart, Luke. You know this to be true.

To go back to my forum experience: Diablo 3. People cried and moaned about the Auction House and how it ruined the game. They offered no real ideas. Just "THIS SUXXX HATE THE AUCTION HAUS". So what happened? Blizzard took it away and made all the legendary gear bound so that you could "play the game for yourself."

Guess what happens next? The floodgates erupt from the same people "I CAN'T FIND ANY GOOD GEAR OMG BLIZZ WTTFFFF"

Jake71887

d0e1ow wrote: »

To go back to my forum experience: Diablo 3. People cried and moaned about the Auction House and how it ruined the game. They offered no real ideas. Just "THIS SUXXX HATE THE AUCTION HAUS". So what happened? Blizzard took it away and made all the legendary gear bound so that you could "play the game for yourself."

Guess what happens next? The floodgates erupt from the same people "I CAN'T FIND ANY GOOD GEAR OMG BLIZZ WTTFFFF"

You're contradicting yourself, you said whining doesn't change anything.... But here you are giving an example of how whining changed the game you base your forum experience on.

You say whining does nothing, I say it does all the time... You say you just disagree with me, then give evidence to back up my point. You are very weird.

Greydog

To be fair, @d0e1ow is correct. Not because his view of others opinions is valid ..but because dev's know that forum posters are the vocal minority in any game. Sometimes an issue will bring on a flood of players out of the game and into the forum. But the greater amount of threads are noted and set aside.

If you really want them to know your opinions you need to use the in-game /feedback tools ..and then yes, speak with your wallet when the time comes.

Jake71887

Greydog wrote: »

To be fair, @d0e1ow is correct. Not because his view of others opinions is valid ..but because dev's know that forum posters are the vocal minority in any game. Sometimes an issue will bring on a flood of players out of the game and into the forum. But the greater amount of threads are noted and set aside.

If you really want them to know your opinions you need to use the in-game /feedback tools ..and then yes, speak with your wallet when the time comes.

In nearly all MMOs I have played, the vocal minority are the ones who are frequently listened to... The overwhelming complaints on forums about certain issues, are always some of the first things to be changed in game.

Greydog

Jake71887 wrote: »

Greydog wrote: »

To be fair, @d0e1ow is correct. Not because his view of others opinions is valid ..but because dev's know that forum posters are the vocal minority in any game. Sometimes an issue will bring on a flood of players out of the game and into the forum. But the greater amount of threads are noted and set aside.

If you really want them to know your opinions you need to use the in-game /feedback tools ..and then yes, speak with your wallet when the time comes.

In nearly all MMOs I have played, the vocal minority are the ones who are frequently listened to... The overwhelming complaints on forums about certain issues, are always some of the first things to be changed in game.

I have also played many MMO's. It has been my observation that changes don't start coming till the company starts losing money. Then they grab ideas from wherever they can find them ..ie, focus groups, forums, feedback etc.

Jake71887

Greydog wrote: »

I have also played many MMO's. It has been my observation that changes don't start coming till the company starts losing money. Then they grab ideas from wherever they can find them ..ie, focus groups, forums, feedback etc.

It really depends on the scope of the changes... Quests, rewards, and UI seem to be always the first to start getting tweaked in my experience. And there's almost always a bunch of posts on the forums about them beforehand. Larger things may take desperate measures to get going, but to say that none of your feedback on the forums is being listened to is ludicrous.

Greydog

Jake71887 wrote: »

Greydog wrote: »

I have also played many MMO's. It has been my observation that changes don't start coming till the company starts losing money. Then they grab ideas from wherever they can find them ..ie, focus groups, forums, feedback etc.

It really depends on the scope of the changes... Quests, rewards, and UI seem to be always the first to start getting tweaked in my experience. And there's almost always a bunch of posts on the forums about them beforehand. Larger things may take desperate measures to get going, but to say that none of your feedback on the forums is being listened to is ludicrous.

I never said they weren't listening. I said they were noted and set aside ...put on a list if you will. In the areas where the in-game feedback coincides with the forum feedback you may see quicker action. In the area's where it doesn't you may not.

The problem with many developers is that from concept thru to launch they have a certain vision of their "baby" and are loathe to deviate from it. In those cases it takes the bottom line for them to remove the blinders.

Jake71887

Greydog wrote: »

I never said they weren't listening. I said they were noted and set aside ...put on a list if you will. In the areas where the in-game feedback coincides with the forum feedback you may see quicker action. In the area's where it doesn't you may not.

The problem with many developers is that from concept thru to launch they have a certain vision of their "baby" and are loathe to deviate from it. In those cases it takes the bottom line for them to remove the blinders.

You said d0e1ow was correct, his point was that none of our feedback, or whining does anything.....
And there's probably just as much "I hate this" in the /feedback, as there is on the forums, the difference is they tend to get not as much traction. Which is why the vocal minority are often listened to, because /feedbacks aren't public... If you aren't addressing the issues that are publicly being criticized, then it makes it seem like you aren't addressing people's concerns.

Greydog

Jake71887 wrote: »

Greydog wrote: »

I never said they weren't listening. I said they were noted and set aside ...put on a list if you will. In the areas where the in-game feedback coincides with the forum feedback you may see quicker action. In the area's where it doesn't you may not.

The problem with many developers is that from concept thru to launch they have a certain vision of their "baby" and are loathe to deviate from it. In those cases it takes the bottom line for them to remove the blinders.

You said d0e1ow was correct, his point was that none of our feedback, or whining does anything.....
And there's probably just as much "I hate this" in the /feedback, as there is on the forums, the difference is they tend to get not as much traction. Which is why the vocal minority are often listened to, because /feedbacks aren't public... If you aren't addressing the issues that are publicly being criticized, then it makes it seem like you aren't addressing people's concerns.

Read my post again. I didn't say he was correct because I agreed with him. I said ..but because ...then went on to my point

My point was that in-game feedback normally constitutes the players who are enjoying themselves enough to actually still be "in game" and I imagine their numbers far exceed ours.

I can honestly say there have been days (like today) where I didn't feel like logging in because I was having more fun in here debating.

Jake71887

Greydog wrote: »

Read my post again. I didn't say he was correct because I agreed with him. I said ..but because ...then went on to my point

My point was that in-game feedback normally constitutes the players who are enjoying themselves enough to actually still be "in game" and I imagine their numbers far exceed ours.

I can honestly say there have been days (like today) where I didn't feel like logging in because I was having more fun in here debating.

You entire first post came off as: "I don't agree with his views on other's opinions, but I do agree with his opinions on the vocal minority. If you want to be listened to, provide /feedback" You used a lot of periods

And I think the fact that we're both having more fun on the forums than in game is saying something >.<

Greydog

^ aint that the truth!

Chryos

@ "A Diablo 3 Forum Veteran"

Have a cookie. Sounds like you do a lot more than pat yourself on the back. Hypocritical.

Audigy

The biggest issue at online forums is that everyone can post, no matter how silly the actual reply will be.

I was insulted a lot at the D3 forums because I liked the game and felt Blizzard made the right choices. The term fanboy or wow player is probably one of the most abused words over there.

Now with ROS Blizzard made design choices that I dislike and I point these out, now however I am a hater obviously

Same with the WoW forums, people put you in boxes so that they can attack your opinions or at best for them, dismiss them as junk so that they can disguise their own lack of argumentation.

Many people have issue´s with accepting someone else´s opinion, just turn on the TV in regards of the conflict in the Ukraine, you will automatically be labeled as Putin friend, if you disagree with what the western world does.

d0e1ow

Chryos wrote: »

@ "A Diablo 3 Forum Veteran"

Have a cookie. Sounds like you do a lot more than pat yourself on the back. Hypocritical.

I got under your skin so much that you had to bump this?

I'm honored.