Suggestion on how to deal with Bot farming in Public Dungs without reinventing the wheel.

Wreaken

The simple fix is to make the dungeon become phased as soon as you kill the boss. Due to how some boss spawn mechanics are at later levels, you can only kill the boss of a public dungeon once in later dungeons until someone who hasn't killed it runs in to the room and spawns it again, so unless there is people running in who are new to the instance, no boss spawns.

Therefor, simple fix is to phase out the people to a different instance who have killed the boss and then the boss never spawns again for the people in that phase. When ever they re-enter said dungeon, their character is silently flagged and the boss never spawns again.

Seeing as the game already uses a phase feature for dynamic content in regards to questing etc, this is a easy fix without reinventing the wheel.

Alternatively, just make it so bosses in public dungeons drop loot once only.

Anoteros

SIMPLE SOLUTION WHICH I'VE POSTED NUMEROUS TIMES.

1. Instance dungeons.
2. Option to scale based on solo or group play (doubt they'd have the ingenuity at ZOS to even attempt this)
3. Limit to how many dungeons can be cleared in an hour/30 minutes. Bosses will not respawn unless dungeon is reset.
4. ???
5. 5. PROFIT


THE END.

Wreaken

Anoteros, I already addressed your opinion in another thread:

Anoteros wrote: »

/sigh

This topic is just going round and round in circles.
SIMPLE SOLUTION WHICH I'VE POSTED NUMEROUS TIMES.

1. Instance dungeons.

No thanks, there is already Instanced dungeons in the game, there is no reason to effect these dungeons.

Anoteros wrote: »

2. Option to scale based on solo or group play (doubt they'd have the ingenuity at ZOS to even attempt this)

Again, no thanks, this feature already exists for instanced dungeons that are currently in game.

Anoteros wrote: »

3. Limit to how many dungeons can be cleared in an hour/30 minutes

No thanks, people are sick of playing the rat hole maze race with timers for such trivial content. These dungeons are designed to be fun and exciting with no consequences.

Anoteros wrote: »

4. ???

Hmm no idea what you meant here.

Anoteros wrote: »

5. PROFIT

How?


Your ideas reinvent the wheel, I am not interested in playing yet another cookie cutter instanced based MMORPG where I don't see anyone in these dungeons and before you say it again, phased and instanced = two completely different things.

The social aspect of these dungeons being open to the public are what make it fun. Take that away and it is just another flakey MMO.

Khala

Anoteros wrote: »

3. Limit to how many dungeons can be cleared in an hour/30 minutes. Bosses will not respawn unless dungeon is reset.

This. Absolutely. Make it 24 hours for the dungeon minibosses.

Khala

Wreaken wrote: »

>>4. ???
Hmm no idea what you meant here.

>>5. PROFIT
How?

You, sir, clearly need to go collect more underpants.

- K

MegaGame

outlevel them?

I hade to go back to a few public dungeons becouse I miss the boss, becouse there where not 5+ people standing around showing me where it was.

See it as a public service, they show you where the boss is and help you kill it.

Wreaken

Alternatively, just make it so bosses in public dungeons drop loot once only.

Dodece

Then again you could do something truly novel like I suggested in the previous thread, and add random mutations to the boss spawns. So that every so often the system generates a substantially more powerful version. That would have a severe advantage against players who are using bot programs. Remember the bots can't react. They just spam set attacks.

Give the bosses a lot of extra health, some immunities to certain attacks, and a positively lethal though slow area attack, and watch as they murder those bots off in short order. While real players who can deal with actual adversity get to enjoy a challenging fight. Who wouldn't find it enjoyable on occasion to run up against something really hard in a public dungeon.

The developers could even put a better loot table on them. To act as a reward for players that are actually playing the game. There is a lot of potential in this one idea. The problem after all isn't just that bots are camping the bosses, but the bosses themselves just aren't all that entertaining. It would be nice to face off against something that stands a good chance of killing you, or might require some real strategy to take on. You know rather then spamming the fastest of our attacks.

sinsor13b14a_ESO

Couple of problems I've seen in these threads.

First off, putting a timer in the boss is a terrible idea, reason being is this only effects people who care about time, IE a normal player. Bots will still be there killing the boss;

a) Because Bots don't care about time

b) the loot the boss drops is now more valuable then before (limited drop)

c) say you wait there for 2 hours for the boss to spawn, go pee real quick come back and see the 24 hour spawned named mob is now dead (Bots don't pee).

Another bad idea is putting timer on how many dungeons you can clear in a certain time frame. My time is valuable, when I do have time to play I make the most of it and run as many things as I can. I don't want to get a group together to blow through 4 dungeons in a speedy and efficient manner to be told your timer is not up for the next dungeon.

How about this and seems simple enough, have the boss spawn in a random spot towards the end of the dungeon. Almost every dungeon I've seen to this point has regular mobs spawning near, but far enough away from the boss that the Bots don't bother with them. Change to where the boss replaces one of the random mobs in the spawn rotation. Will this kill Bots, no, but it will damn sure make it harder for them, plus it will give people a chance to at least get a hit on the boss to get the kill credit.

Or ZOS can keep banning the gold sellers / buyers, Bots, and cheaters, because that is the only true way this is going to be fixed.

jackalpup83b14_ESO

it is impossible to ban all bots/spammers/farmers/cheaters....

i agree, i believe the best way to fix the problem is to make these phased. once you clear it, it is cleared forever. or at least for a set amount of time such as 24 hours.

if it gets reset every 24 hours, for example, then you can go back in it with your friends who maybe have not done it yet, thus keeping a good pool of people who can help new players years from now or what have you.

they already phase many areas, i don't think it takes from group/social play at all...if you want social, go in with a friend. if your friend just logged on an hour after you cleared it, tough ***. the things take less than a full minute to zoom through anyway. well, some take like 3 minutes. you are never alone in them. if it is a huge problem and you just REALLY want to do that area with your buddy, just wait until reset.

i think this would be easy for them to program and set up, since they already know how...and it would definitely clear out the bots.

Makkir

I would be okay with being ported out of the dungeon once the boss is killed...

Wreaken

Makkir wrote: »

I would be okay with being ported out of the dungeon once the boss is killed...

Problem with this is, what if you miss the skyshard or possibly lore book inside?

Just make it a one time only loot drop from the bosses, that way you can still go back and help friends, family and guildies.

Lovely

Make them drop the blue item they carry 100% and then not give xp nor items. Let's be serious now, these are low level dungeons, who cares if people get a blue that will easily be replaced in a couple of levels.

Sylveria_Relden

jackalpup83b14_ESO wrote: »

it is impossible to ban all bots/spammers/farmers/cheaters....

I disagree.

It's just highly time consuming- however, ultimately they will give up trying to make money in the game as soon as they're being banned at $60-80 a whack for each account.

Basically the bottom line here (no pun intended) is that once they're losing more money than they're making they'll eventually leave the game if the amount of accounts they're having to open in expense outweighs their income. No one has so much of a disposable income they can afford to keep getting accounts banned and having to re-purchase the game.

sinsor13b14a_ESO

Sylveria_Relden wrote: »

jackalpup83b14_ESO wrote: »

it is impossible to ban all bots/spammers/farmers/cheaters....

I disagree.

It's just highly time consuming- however, ultimately they will give up trying to make money in the game as soon as they're being banned at $60-80 a whack for each account.

Basically the bottom line here (no pun intended) is that once they're losing more money than they're making they'll eventually leave the game if the amount of accounts they're having to open in expense outweighs their income. No one has so much of a disposable income they can afford to keep getting accounts banned and having to re-purchase the game.

I agree, but, I don't think ZOS wants to ban these guys 100% and all at once. Bad business. Think about this, they do a once a month sweep and ban say 1000 accounts. Well gold sellers / botters, are making well above the cost to re-buy those 1k accounts. It's a replenishing cash cow.....

KerinKor

Anoteros wrote: »

1. Instance dungeons.
2. Option to scale based on solo or group play (doubt they'd have the ingenuity at ZOS to even attempt this)
3. Limit to how many dungeons can be cleared in an hour/30 minutes. Bosses will not respawn unless dungeon is reset.
4. ???
5. 5. PROFIT.

1. No, there are already quite enough of those, we don't need more.
2. No, level-scaling/capping is NOT required
3. Possible, some games like WOW and Rift have a throttle but it's not without its impact on legit players farming something specific.

Sylveria_Relden

sinsor13b14a_ESO wrote: »

Sylveria_Relden wrote: »

jackalpup83b14_ESO wrote: »

it is impossible to ban all bots/spammers/farmers/cheaters....

I disagree.

It's just highly time consuming- however, ultimately they will give up trying to make money in the game as soon as they're being banned at $60-80 a whack for each account.

Basically the bottom line here (no pun intended) is that once they're losing more money than they're making they'll eventually leave the game if the amount of accounts they're having to open in expense outweighs their income. No one has so much of a disposable income they can afford to keep getting accounts banned and having to re-purchase the game.

I agree, but, I don't think ZOS wants to ban these guys 100% and all at once. Bad business. Think about this, they do a once a month sweep and ban say 1000 accounts. Well gold sellers / botters, are making well above the cost to re-buy those 1k accounts. It's a replenishing cash cow.....

You've got a good point- and as distasteful as the practice of gold buying/selling in the games market may be- it's definitely bait on a hook for any MMO.

Here's the trick, though- if they get out of hand with their practice, such as interfering with the game's enjoyment so much that any company starts losing subscribers too quickly, they have to make a response quick enough so that their residual income doesn't suffer. Problem with today's MMO market is it's so fickle and fleeting, and many companies end up going F2P rather quickly soon after (if you can't keep the subs, you won't survive on monthlies alone... SWTOR is a good example of that) and time will soon tell.

Ultimately, and this is something that some of the "kiddos" (immature adults included) here have yet to understand, is that ZOS is a business; business has one purpose- to make money. How they make their money will determine whether their business succeeds or fails- presently "business ethics" (personally I see this as an oxymoron, but I am indeed aware of injustice presently) being the theme a business doesn't survive long when it's bleeding customers. Business is about making money- (we can, and so "we should.") and ethics is about "how" you make your money ("we can", but "should we?") just as there's a definitive difference between science and philosophy.

Now, not to get OT too much, but here's a little history lesson for the uninitiated in business- a lot of this cash grab trend started when the dot-coms started making millions overnight (a lot of the groundwork much earlier than that)- other businesses saw it and asked themselves why they're spending 10+ years investing to make a profit, and "reduce overhead, maximize profit" became the new mantra. Out the window went customer service, loyalty, and so forth- in came the record profits- but at the expense of employee salaries and off-shoring, reductions in benefits but yet prices and inflation continued to rise. The pendulum swung too far in the other direction. Now we've got an imbalance, and "social justice" becomes the Flavor of the Century- so businesses need to adapt or become candles burning at both ends in order to succeed. It's also led to the rising attitudes of self-entitlement, and customers are also much harder to satisfy as a result.

Now back on topic completely... it's definitely possible to get rid of the gold spammers/sellers, griefers, etc., but whether they do it or not, will depend on their gamble to success. Will they toss the dice to see how much short-term profit they can earn, or will they take the plunge and try to reap successful long-term profits by the customers they earn loyalty from? This question won't be resolved in an online forum- but in a corporate boardroom, and the answers will come evidently with the changing game. I believe the developers themselves, although employees of ZOS, really wanted this game to succeed. I see it in every detail, quest, story, artwork, etc. This game has its flaws, admittedly- but the reality is that they spent a lot of time and effort in order to truly make it memorable. That said, It's also highly reminiscent of SWTOR's launch in a lot of ways- although they covered the "what to do at end-game" a little better, having Cyrodil in place of "endless end-game content" to satisfy the min/max, leetist hardcores, etc. I'm an RPG player first and foremost, I've delved into PvP many times and found it quite boring (how many times can you "win" or "lose" before you're burned out with the whole process of competitive gameplay?) but also see the value of such gameplay- I've played many MMO's for years (including DAoC, which I love see a lot of the same elements in this game) and this one doesn't feel as "empty" as SWTOR tended to feel. It's rich with lore, ties into the original TES series almost seamlessly, and feels exciting. I'm also one of those players that loves the leveling process itself more than the end-game because it teaches you "how" to play on the way to max level. Every skill and attribute has a purpose- and the story provides a framework that leads you to the "destination".

IMO, the "journey" is more important than the "destination". Otherwise, they would have offered one-button max-level characters to play at the launch- so you could just hop right into the end-game content without "grinding" (another term that's distasteful to me) which is yet another symptomatic result of the cash-grab attitude. The problem with MMO's launching these days it's become a one-trick pony- and eventually customers will be hip to the attitude and businesses will find it harder to succeed. (fool me once, shame on you- fool me twice, shame on me)

Bethesda (Zenimax being the parent company) has a lot riding on this, too- because the other side of this yet to be determined story unfolding, is the Fallout franchise- and if they've done this right they may yet make money at unfolding it as an MMO in "similar style". (different theme, but yet similar release) If they fail horribly at this one, then they will have undoubtedly alienated themselves where such a release may not yield the numbers they hoped for. (take a good look at EA's numbers if you need reference here)

The "moral" of the story here- is it's OK to make money, but if you want to lie, cheat, steal and manipulate your way to the top- you may want to consider the consequences such actions have on your reputation at the "end-game". Are you building a "fizzle" business, or an "empire"? (To be..... or not to be.....)

scruffycavetroll

lol...public dungs

the image of comparing farmers to beetles crawling over *** is kinda funny.

Tarokor

So i have a lvl 19 DK tank, i am running dungeons to get achievements and shards and hopefully a little loot. I actually reported a dungeon this evening after i sat there for an hour swining non stop, just for a chance to hit the boss and get the achievement, and have not seen loot drop from a boss in a public dungeon since the 5 day early access.

So all of you people saying nothing is wrong, please tell me why chaning this system is not fair to the botters.

Or why i should consider this as being fun for me