Alchemy is a bit deceiptive

grizzbi

As a low level alchemist (18), I really love to gather herbs, test them and craft pots.

I've tried to use the guild store to sell potions. But most of them are not bought even at the lowest price. So I get more and more of them and have to sell most of them to npcs which is quite sad.

I've also discovered that depending on your character specialization, one or two potion type overshadow the others. All pots seem to be very situational and even then still subpar compared to health/ stamina / mana pots. Those offer by far a better return on investment/use.

I won't talk about the inventory management which can be daunting.

You can also notice that there are a lot less people practicing alchemy in towns..So I suppose I'm not the only one to think that Alchemy is not very rewarding compared to other crafts.

I don't really mind practicing a craft with lower return on investment. But even if I try hard to find some use to alchemy, the game won't stop trying to discourage me. Here is the last example:

I've gathered enough mats to make a bunch of invisible pots. I was in a higher public dungeon, hidden alone, with two mobs packs on each side. No way I could fight and survive one of those. Then I thought: I WILL USE THE INVISIBLE POT to break the aggro from mobs after I pass the difficult passage, and get hidden again. No need to say it didn't work: mobs saw me through invisibilty... So I tried to use the pot differently: I used it before I ran and tried to pass the mobs pack: but as the pot lasts 3 sec it was not long enough to do so. Another fail.

I will continue to try hard, but as far as I can tell, Alchemy doesn't seem to be very rewarding.

I don't see any change coming soon, so I wanted to have others feedback:
Do you have better results than I do?

Censorious

True.
I gave up on the 'invisibility' potions. Plus you get enough of the Stamina, Health, Magicka potions from dungeons to last you a lifetime anyway.

Seems pointless. I've just stopped gathering anything. The other crafts look no better really.

Nazon_Katts

Alchemy seems to be suffering from a couple of bugs and could use some loving in the potency department. But the market is currently underdeveloped, since there's just not that much of demand for specialized pots. You can easily go by without them at all or just use the pots you can get from drops.

I expect this to change as soon as more people reach end game and the edge player made potions can give you actually counts. And it would probably help a lot, if multiple and different potions were easier to use in combat, the quickslot wheel is holding a lot of people back from using more than one item.

blahgameblahb14_ESO

I would say that even at level 40 (alchemy) I don't think I've every used one of my own pots given the number of heal, stamina and Magika that drop. I'll get it up to 50 on the assumption (hope) that they will be needed post VR rank.

On the good side, after investing the point into the passive that allows you to mix 3 ingredients you do make 'nicer' items. A normal HP pot that drops gives (guessing since servers are down) 280 HP immediate and another 280 over 14 seconds. A nice 'ravage health' pot that I craft with 3 ingredients gives 320 now, 320 over time and boosts magika by 210 (or something thereabouts) for 10(ish) seconds.

Coggage

Crafting seems a waste of time. You've already covered Alchemy, and I agree it's pretty much useless too. Provisioning, Blacksmithing, Woodworking and the rest are made pointless by the number of loot you get via drops and quests.

It's just not worth playing Tetris with the myriad of different resources cluttering up your bank and inventory when loot drops are so plentiful.

grizzbi

Censorious wrote: »

True.
I gave up on the 'invisibility' potions. Plus you get enough of the Stamina, Health, Magicka potions from dungeons to last you a lifetime anyway.

Seems pointless. I've just stopped gathering anything. The other crafts look no better really.

Well I wouldn't call all the crafts useless. Being able to craft your own legendaries ( weapons and armor) is nice.

Alchemy can become maybe a little bit more interesting when you can upgrade it to mix 3 ingredients to have pots with multiple effects (I already produce pots with both max magika and max health increased).

Anyway I'm a little bit concerned if those side effects are not really noticeable or useful.

holygraell

Crafting is a bit broken. I am finding that as time goes on, I'm having more trouble finding anyone in my trade guilds (I have four of them) who want to trade items to break down into materials with me. I am one of those players who finds enjoyment in a game by exploring everywhere (I've managed to find all my Sky shards and Lore books so far without any help from addons etc lol I'm that obsessive with it) and who HATES rushing to max level just to do end game stuff only and be all uber. That's cool for those who like that stuff, but it seems like the overwhelming majority of players are that way in ESO. I've not run into this before. So they're all lots of levels ahead of me in crafting etc. Not trying to whine, but now I've started leveling crafts twice over on alts just to have a character to trade stuff with. Just seems foolish to do things this way. It makes me kind of sad that as crafters we're stuck with 1) Stuff that may (probably) not be worth anything on market, 2) Takes up waaaaay too much bank room, even with horse/bag/bank upgrades, 3) That we get very little benefit from making, instead having to get max benefit from trading everything away for another to destroy.
I didn't mind the set up so much in other ES games, but here it just seems more broken than workable in the long run. I really don't see where crafting holds much benefit for players in the future, and it's a shame since (apart from the trading it all away thing) it's discouraging and really not a bad set up at heart. It's more interesting than most games make it for sure, but.... Ah well. First world problems and all that. But I love all aspects of games and to find that I spend too much time gathering/crafting/breaking/dealing with inventory nightmares all for little benefit/profit is kind of a bummer. I feel as though my self sufficiency has been destroyed and that's something I always am in game, self sufficient. My play times rather demand it of me in MMOs, since I tend to play at times when server loads are lower. It makes me feel like maybe this game is meant for rushing through, not bothering to craft and not subscribing to for a long term fun thing to do. Heavens know that I keep seeing others in forums telling those of us who like to experience everything in games, to do just that -- quit all the stuff we usually find fun and just go hardcore endgame. All that said, I'm still having a blast. For now... And I'm hopeful that things will be tweaked a bit later in an update and that we'll all be able to stop whinging about our annoyances with crafting (and the inventory drag it creates).

Falmer

I too loved alchemy in the single-player games and thought I would here too. However, it became clear after a very short time that crafted potions are pretty pointless.

I am not an 'end-game' player, If I get to level 50 and have completed all the quests for my character I can do, I would start over with a new character in a new alliance. Therefore, if potions are only useful for end-game or pvp, then alchemy is just one of the skills I will just have to skip this game.

zhevon

The real problem with potions is its near impossible to swap them while in combat; sorry it just is. So I get to use one potion type (usually health).

One thing that has been stated is that alchemy and provisioning get more important during the end game content. Don't know myself I am only at level 14.

Lazarus_Long

I find it rewarding for my play style. I took two Medicinal Use perks and now I get 20% longer potions. I also figured out how to make a potion that restores health, magicka, and stamina all at once. My other toon is an enchanter and it feeds my main glyphs that lower the cool down time of potions. So I hope to be able to keep up regen potions almost as long as I want in the future.

Censorious

Lazarus_Long wrote: »

I find it rewarding for my play style. I took two Medicinal Use perks and now I get 20% longer potions. I also figured out how to make a potion that restores health, magicka, and stamina all at once. My other toon is an enchanter and it feeds my main glyphs that lower the cool down time of potions. So I hope to be able to keep up regen potions almost as long as I want in the future.

Well, that sounds promising - but I can't help feeling those glyphs might be put to better use elsewhere.

grizzbi

You're all awesome: thanks for your quick answers. I see that we are all in the same boat: crafting because we love it but not getting any real benefit from it as it is.

It looks like crafting has not been really balanced with the rest of the game.

They want all the people to be self sufficient. Without craft. It makes most of us feel that crafting is most a timesink than anything.

I wouldn't play a game without exploring, crafting etc.. But there's no strategy here beside the tedious inventory management.

I just do it to feel like I'm in a living world.

It's a shame because, TES is THE game who should not ONLY reward people who rush the endgame.

SirPuppingtonVonHat

Alchemy in ESO isn't that good until you're able to add a third ingrediant. Once you can do that, you can easily make potions that restore all three resources for your tank, jitter juice to super-charge your casters (magicka, spell power & spell crit), and crit-a-cola for your melee guys (health, stamina, weapon crit). I've seen good use of my potions single-handedly save a group, so stick with it, its worth it.

Cry_Wolfe

I think there are two options as far as crafting in ESO goes:
firstly, due to concern over balance in PvP and PvE, enchanting and alchemy were limited to their current woeful state. Many options with these two crafts are included merely for their nod value as regards the Elder Scrolls franchise even while they are either largely useless or so limited as to be edge factors only for various character builds.

secondly, due to concerns over balance in PvP and PvE, enchanting and alchemy were limited to their current woeful states with the view that they could later be adjusted when more data is available as regards to balancing glyph-item slot combinations and potion duration and poison effects on the PvP meta and PvE balance (as regards risk vs reward structures).

oh wait we don't even have poisons do we?.. just potions that oddly do things that mean they will never be used by players....

grizzbi

Censorious wrote: »

Lazarus_Long wrote: »

I find it rewarding for my play style. I took two Medicinal Use perks and now I get 20% longer potions. I also figured out how to make a potion that restores health, magicka, and stamina all at once. My other toon is an enchanter and it feeds my main glyphs that lower the cool down time of potions. So I hope to be able to keep up regen potions almost as long as I want in the future.

Well, that sounds promising - but I can't help feeling those glyphs might be put to better use elsewhere.

That's one of the problem: even if it looks good on paper, it still prevent you from doing far better choices.

I choosed to be an argonian for the pot racial trait. But as it looks it won't help me as much as a multiple permanent boost to health , magika etc..

grizzbi

HarryWolfe wrote: »

I think there are two options as far as crafting in ESO goes:
firstly, due to concern over balance in PvP and PvE, enchanting and alchemy were limited to their current woeful state. Many options with these two crafts are included merely for their nod value as regards the Elder Scrolls franchise even while they are either largely useless or so limited as to be edge factors only for various character builds.

secondly, due to concerns over balance in PvP and PvE, enchanting and alchemy were limited to their current woeful states with the view that they could later be adjusted when more data is available as regards to balancing glyph-item slot combinations and potion duration and poison effects on the PvP meta and PvE balance (as regards risk vs reward structures).

oh wait we don't even have poisons do we?.. just potions that oddly do things that mean they will never be used by players....

That's interessant. I think you're close to the truth. And sadly I would opt for the first reason.. Since the game is supposed to be quite complete, I would be surprised to see hidden plans or major improvements in the future.

I hate to say that but you're probably right.

Cry_Wolfe

grizzbi wrote: »

That's interessant. I think you're close to the truth. And sadly I would opt for the first reason.. Since the game is supposed to be quite complete, I would be surprised to see hidden plans or major improvements in the future.

I hate to say that but you're probably right.

i suspect it is the first as well, but as far as i still want to play ESO i hope it is the second.

Shimond

SirPuppingtonVonHat wrote: »

Alchemy in ESO isn't that good until you're able to add a third ingrediant. Once you can do that, you can easily make potions that restore all three resources for your tank, jitter juice to super-charge your casters (magicka, spell power & spell crit), and crit-a-cola for your melee guys (health, stamina, weapon crit). I've seen good use of my potions single-handedly save a group, so stick with it, its worth it.

Yea the stuff you can make blows the dropped stuff out of the water, really. This is true with any of the crafts, it just takes a bit of work.

grizzbi

SirPuppingtonVonHat wrote: »

Alchemy in ESO isn't that good until you're able to add a third ingrediant. Once you can do that, you can easily make potions that restore all three resources for your tank, jitter juice to super-charge your casters (magicka, spell power & spell crit), and crit-a-cola for your melee guys (health, stamina, weapon crit). I've seen good use of my potions single-handedly save a group, so stick with it, its worth it.

Good to know but even then, it's "quite poor" from my point of view.

2 pots could overshadow anything else. I would like to see more effects and each effect balanced so that - even in situational use - it as a real impact if used correctly.

But I don't want to be too pessimistic: maybe more options will be available later or as I discover them.

UnknownXV

The game makes it too easy to obtain health / stam / magicka potions without crafting. The game is also far too easy to necessitate using them to begin with.

Lausanna

I've found alchemy (and crafting in general) mostly unrewarding so far, but I keep chipping away at it in the hopes that it's value will be revealed at end game (and so I won't have to start from scratch when I get there!).

Coggage

zhevon wrote: »

The real problem with potions is its near impossible to swap them while in combat; sorry it just is. So I get to use one potion type (usually health).

Try the GreymindQuickSlotBar addon. It puts a mini-hotbar on the screen, and has assignable keys. (the hotbar is just a visual reminder, really) I use F1 to F8 for the slots so if I need a potion in slot 4 I just tap F4 and then tap Q to use it. Job done nice and quick.

trinta

grizzbi wrote: »

Since the game is supposed to be quite complete, I would be surprised to see hidden plans or major improvements in the future.

This is the only part I disagree with. MMOs are known for their fluidity; major changes can be and are implemented pretty regularly.

RustyBlades

I've had 0 helmet drops, 0 paldron drops, about 1% belt drops, the rest are fairly evenly spread between boots, gloves, pants, and boots. I find crafting very usefull to fill in the gap. Like battle axes seem to drop like camel turds in the desert but level daggers seem slightly rare.

The most worthless skill is staves. Those drop more than battle axes, and 90% of the time drop green.

As for alchemy.. yup.. I can't see the point until the dungeon drop rates go down and the vendor prices go up.

nerevarine1138

I'm surprised that people "don't see the point" of alchemy because of dungeon drops. You do realize that I make potions which restore health magicka and stamina all at once, right? So I use 1/3 of the inventory space to make a potion that restores more of each of those stats than any drop I get in a dungeon.

Not to mention the speed/detection/crit/power potions. Those can come in very handy in a number of situations.

Thechemicals

Not sure i understand what most of you and the op are saying. How is alchemy pointless? I have made some insane potions like 200 crit bonus pots and ravagers.

Shimond

Thechemicals wrote: »

Not sure i understand what most of you and the op are saying. How is alchemy pointless? I have made some insane potions like 200 crit bonus pots and ravagers.

I'm guessing they haven't been experimenting enough or unlocked the 3rd reagent. Even the 'basic' healing potions are far better for their level than drops.

Mix

I use alchemy constantly for myself, I don't try to sell potions because until the guild store has some sort of search function it will be under-used.

I make restore health, magicka, and stamina potions. All in one potion! This is for general leveling purposes:) (I see the poster above does the same thing! )

Also have some spell crit/spell dmg/restore magicka and spell crit/restore hp/restore magicka. Also made a few "super" restore health potions - if you have restore health on all 3 reagents it increases the amount healed, both immediately and over time.

Nazon_Katts

There are some pretty powerful potions. There just isn't that much demand for them, because they're currently not really needed for most.

Kyosji

I stopped bothering with Alchemy for the time being. I'm still eating everything to learn the traits, but I wont start it up again until poisons and tinctures are fully implemented. Once that happens, it's a whole new ball game.

TheAmu

It'll all be worth it when poisons are added.