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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
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I cannot believe this

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cr17wb_ESO
cr17wb_ESO
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Had a guy scam me in the game. I report him. I then decide to let other people in the zone know who scammed me because he CONTINUED to spam for the same "sale" he was trying to make and I didn't want anyone else to have their gold stolen. I then get an email saying that "Name and shaming" is against ToS and that I could be banned. I get scammed so I am the one who should get in trouble. Really? This aggravates me beyond belief.
  • Csub
    Csub
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    Not sure how you got scammed but it is generally advised not to give money or item to anyone in advance, use COD function of the mail or face to face trading or even guild store.

    I know, this is not helping you now, but you should just report them and explain what happened, if you are lucky, he gets suspended/banned and you get your gold back but honestly,I doubt that. As I also doubt you can be banned if you write in zone chat that xy scammed you, be careful with that person.
    "The Divines gave you a nose for a reason, Tharn. So you can keep your mouth shut and still keep breathing. - Lyris Titanborn
  • cr17wb_ESO
    cr17wb_ESO
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    Official email from Zeni...It is against ToS to "Name and shame". Even the mods here on the forum posted it.
  • rager82b14_ESO
    rager82b14_ESO
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    I have mix feelings on this.

    Back in the old days, building a community was about calling people out who ninja looted, or screwed you over. Some times people was doing it to be jerks, but a lot of the times it was true. Building a name for yourself in a mmo was fun.


    Now..look at how things turned out.
  • Chirru
    Chirru
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    The good old times are over. Nowadays shaming the Cheaters is offensive. it hurts their feelings....
  • Applemoth
    Applemoth
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    Unfortunately it's too easy to make false accusations against someone as a form of griefing. If anyone actually believes the accusation, then the reputation of the accused is permanently damaged whether they deserve it or not. Sadly, this does make it easier for the scammers, unless they get banned very quickly after reporting.
  • Azzuria
    Azzuria
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    Can't make the 'special snowflakes' feel bad about being bad.
    Brunhilda Icehammer - Nord Dragonknight, 'Smith & Enchantress 'What is 'ranged? I need to hit something!!'
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  • rager82b14_ESO
    rager82b14_ESO
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    Applemoth wrote: »
    Unfortunately it's too easy to make false accusations against someone as a form of griefing. If anyone actually believes the accusation, then the reputation of the accused is permanently damaged whether they deserve it or not. Sadly, this does make it easier for the scammers, unless they get banned very quickly after reporting.

    That was the case in the past, but people was able to get passed it. Most of the time, people who get called out for no reason can easily overcome it by just not being a jerk.

  • Applemoth
    Applemoth
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    Azzuria wrote: »
    Can't make the 'special snowflakes' feel bad about being bad.

    I doubt the scammers have any shame though, so they won't feel bad even if they are called out - just mildly irritated that their scam might not work any more.
  • Delte
    Delte
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    I doubt scamming is against the ToS, I know in Eve Online if you get scammed its your own fault.
    Next time use COD if it is an item or go through the trade window. If you tried to buy a bite to become a werewolf or vampire then it is your own fault for being scammed.
    Live and learn.
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  • Applemoth
    Applemoth
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    rager82b14_ESO wrote: »
    That was the case in the past, but people was able to get passed it. Most of the time, people who get called out for no reason can easily overcome it by just not being a jerk.

    True, the damage is pretty minimal - the community is usually large enough that it won't reach most people, and those that do hear it will take it with a pinch of salt anyway. I still think that allowing it is an open invitation for griefers though, and can lead to ridiculous flamewars in the chat channels.
  • wrlifeboil
    wrlifeboil
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    cr17wb_ESO wrote: »
    Had a guy scam me in the game. I report him. I then decide to let other people in the zone know who scammed me because he CONTINUED to spam for the same "sale" he was trying to make and I didn't want anyone else to have their gold stolen. I then get an email saying that "Name and shaming" is against ToS and that I could be banned. I get scammed so I am the one who should get in trouble. Really? This aggravates me beyond belief.

    It is like a f2p game. Scammers win.
  • timebandit_b16_ESO
    timebandit_b16_ESO
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    cr17wb_ESO wrote: »
    Had a guy scam me in the game. I report him. I then decide to let other people in the zone know who scammed me because he CONTINUED to spam for the same "sale" he was trying to make and I didn't want anyone else to have their gold stolen. I then get an email saying that "Name and shaming" is against ToS and that I could be banned. I get scammed so I am the one who should get in trouble. Really? This aggravates me beyond belief.

    I really feel with you :(

    All I can say is...vote with your money.

    Right now this game is a turd.
  • Applemoth
    Applemoth
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    Delte wrote: »
    I doubt scamming is against the ToS, I know in Eve Online if you get scammed its your own fault.

    You're right - I can't find anything in the ToS or code of conduct that would cover it, except in an extremely general sense. So the only defence is not to lay yourself open to it in the first place.
  • wrlifeboil
    wrlifeboil
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    Applemoth wrote: »
    Delte wrote: »
    I doubt scamming is against the ToS, I know in Eve Online if you get scammed its your own fault.

    You're right - I can't find anything in the ToS or code of conduct that would cover it, except in an extremely general sense. So the only defence is not to lay yourself open to it in the first place.

    Guess WoW wins on this one. If you get scammed in WoW, even for small amounts like for an enchant, the scammer gets temporary bans until he/she climbs the ban volcano to permaban. This goes back all the way to vanilla.
  • Thete
    Thete
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    You have to bear in mind that you may be considered the bad guy by ZOS.

    There have been a lot of complaints on the forum about people selling bites and killing the mobs that can give players vampirism or lycanthropy to maintain the rarity of their 'product'. This is not what ZOS intended and is negatively impacting on many customers' gameplay. By trying to buy one of these bites, you are driving this practice.

    So, although you feel hard done by because you were scammed (and it is a pretty obvious cam btw), ZOS may have little sympathy for you because you are spoiling the game for others. It's a bit like someone buying illegal drugs and suffering health problems as a result. The authorities tend to have little sympathy for you.
    wrlifeboil wrote: »

    Guess WoW wins on this one. If you get scammed in WoW, even for small amounts like for an enchant, the scammer gets temporary bans until he/she climbs the ban volcano to permaban. This goes back all the way to vanilla.

    Wasn't always the case. Used to be the official line in WoW of buyer beware; maybe it is with ESO at the moment (especially for bites).
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  • Coggage
    Coggage
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    As Calvera said in "The Magnificent Seven"... If God didn't want them sheared, he would not have made them sheep.
  • Orizuru
    Orizuru
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    When you allow a community to shame other members of the community the end result is a sort of mob mentality where the community gangs up on individuals simply for being individuals. If you want to encourage fair play, you can't let players go around saying negative things about other players, even when it might be true.

    You can still shame them in guild chat, private whispers and in-game mail though. This way you can communicate the nature of a unscrupulous player to your friends and guild members and any other players you trust to take you seriously and not report you.

    Best thing to do when you know a player is scamming other players is to report it to ZOS and let them deal with it from there. Any attempt to call them out in the community for their behavior is only putting your own account at risk.
  • Vivec
    Vivec
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    If you get scammed, it's your fault, not the seller's fault.
  • Teroh
    Teroh
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    This is a stupid policy. If ZOS did something about scammers and griefers maybe it would make sense.
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  • Selstad
    Selstad
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    Even if you got scammed, it's generally bad conduct to hang out people as scammers on public channels. I've never been fond of that in MMOs anyway, especially since a lot use that to grief others that they - for some reason - don't like.

    I don't condone in scamming, but there are channels to report such behaviour and there are channels to discuss that with the game's creators. Use those channels, instead of publicly hanging people out as scammers.
  • fougerec99b16_ESO
    fougerec99b16_ESO
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    You can't con on honest man. That saying goes back a long way and is why Gold Sellers and Nigerian Mail schemes continue to work. Everyone wants something for nothing (or close to it). So, frankly, if you got scammed then it is entirely your fault for either trying to buy a bite or by absolutely failing to take any sort of precaution in a straight up trade.
  • Cry_Wolfe
    Cry_Wolfe
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    Coggage wrote: »
    As Calvera said in "The Magnificent Seven"... If God didn't want them sheared, he would not have made them sheep.

    because selective breeding is a lie...

    also regards EvE online: it is an outlier in the games industry.
  • dagnome
    dagnome
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    cr17wb_ESO wrote: »
    Had a guy scam me in the game. I report him. I then decide to let other people in the zone know who scammed me because he CONTINUED to spam for the same "sale" he was trying to make and I didn't want anyone else to have their gold stolen. I then get an email saying that "Name and shaming" is against ToS and that I could be banned. I get scammed so I am the one who should get in trouble. Really? This aggravates me beyond belief.

    1) Dont try and buy Vampire/Werewolf bites...
    2) Name and shame (IE specifically naming a player in chat or the forums in an attempt to soil their name/reputation) is considered across the board as name and shame, even if they are doing something bad.
    3) You sure you got scammed? Many people were utilizing the CoD trading system and not receiving their mail due to bugs and suddenly they were "Scammed". Be sure you were not the victim of a in game bug before you cry wolf. (I know because I was accused of scamming someone because they did not get the CoD response with the 1.5k gold i sent them)
    4) Don't feed the tolls, some people will intentionally scam you just so you name and shame and then they report you. They do this simply to disrupt your gaming experience because they didn't get enough attention as a child.
    5) Gold is replaceable, don't sweat the small amount you lost you'll get it baack. (And if you tell me you were paying 40k for a Deadric Motif then I feel no pitty at all for you)

    And that's all I have to say about that.
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  • pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO
    pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO
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    First of all, mate, creating discussions with a topic as vague as this one is generally considered... err... bad mannered... on most forums.

    Secondly, like in the real life the only ones who can authorize an action against a person is legal authorities, here it's Zenimax employees. If you report the scam it will probably end in the account being banned and thus there will be no need to spread the word :smile:

    And yes, you're in breach of Naming and Shaming policy which you can read in a sticker in 'Players helping players' forum.
    Edited by pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO on April 21, 2014 12:48PM
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  • Orizuru
    Orizuru
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    Teroh wrote: »
    This is a stupid policy. If ZOS did something about scammers and griefers maybe it would make sense.

    Think of it this way...

    Lets think hypothetically for a moment that you are trying to sell a very rare item and are asking 2000 gold for it in a public channel trade spam. I have the same item for sale and I've been asking 2200 gold and I have a possible buyer lined up that I'm negotiating with who then sees your offer and he backs out of the sale to try and get the item from you at a better price. I then open a public channel and accuse you of scamming me with a bait and switch scheme. The buyer then loses confidence in his deal with you because I've called you a scammer and then buys the item from me at a higher price.

    Wouldn't you want a rule that clearly states I should be punished for publicly calling you a scammer? This is the reason this policy exists. It's meant to protect the integrity of players by preventing other players from falsely accusing them of something like I described.

  • chriss23
    chriss23
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    This is the first time I've played an online game and I've had several emails offering me in-game gold and loads of experience points for money which I find irritating as well as disappointing but I've reported it each time. The thing is that nothing in this world or the online world is going to be perfect and there's always going to be people out to make money from wherever they can get it. I find it sad that people spoil games in this way but my own attitude is that I just want to play the game without cheating or getting the wrong sort of help and just enjoy it for what it is - a game.
  • Shimond
    Shimond
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    The only thing you could get scammed on is something that isn't a physical object in the game - i.e. werewolf/vampire bites

    We also don't know to what end you were badmouthing the guy. You might have been spamming the chat channels and using foul language for all we know.
  • UnknownXV
    UnknownXV
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    I don't scam, but I disagree with making scamming against the rules. If you get scammed, it grows your character and makes you smarter.
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