I would pay to have more skills on the skill hotbar....but I already do *sigh*

rofflemywafflez

This is more of a rant than an actual post, but I would like to say I really would love to use more skills on the skill hotbar. Anyone else feel this way?

I'm a lvl 26 nightblade and I really, really love the ability to use "shadow cloak" in the middle of combat, stun and backstab for great damage with "veiled strike", and then finish them with "rapid strikes".

Consequently, that basic setup right there, as fun as it is, takes 3 of my skill slots. Pretty soon I'll be getting "siphoning strikes", but I'm not quite sure where I'll put it. I'm using "teleport strike" and "drain essence" (vampire ability) as my other 2 skills, and both are very fun to use.

Perhaps I'm missing the point and the ergonomics in the game and I'm supposed to be switching to the second skill hotbar in the middle of combat and that's what the dev's intended, but I would prefer to have more skills at hand.

See, I'm sure I could conjure up some incredibly awesome build using some of the "best skills" and stick with that all game.... but where's the fun in that? That's the point. I want to have fun playing the game in MY style of play (which is why I chose a rogue-ish character anyway), and have extra options too.

"Summon Shade", "Haste", and "Mark Target" interest me too.... but I doubt I'll ever use them just because I don't have room for them

I would go as far as to say that because of these limitations I'm actually losing interest in the game. ESO piqued my interest because of the skill-system, and I think it's the only thing sustaining my interest at this point. The weapons and armor are not all that unique from one another (except item set bonuses). I feel like I'm learning a limited skillset can make things boring. I imagine if things stick this way, by the time I'm 50+ I'll already have moved on to bigger and better things.

I love this game, I just want more options :P After coming from Dragon Age: Origins into this.... I know for sure I've been spoiled lol

cleric670b14_ESO

Use your second action bar, have one bar for the setup/burst, then swap to the second bar for sustain/rest of the fight.

kelebra

Second bar can either be additional skills or different weapon.

Spiderg1rl

I can see what they were trying to do, and more so that they were trying to make us think more about what you have in your quick bar. I think the idea is sound but it might be worth having 7 or 8 instead and then the ultimate. There are just too many abilities overall to limit us to just 5 + the ultimate.

Laura

no. it wouldn't work in this game because people could do all roles all the time

Censorious

The whole point of limiting your skill slots is to prevent you having total access to all possible skills all the time. Remember, there are no cooldowns in this game.

Personally, I prefer it this way. I don't have to wait for things to come off CD. I have 5 skills right under my 5 fingers so I can hit them by 'twitch'. The whole thing just feels so much faster and more fluid. If I run out of stamina (or majicka or whatever), it just feels natural - same as in RL if you keep doing something, you get tired. Then I switch to a different form of attack until I've recovered.
- It just feel so right.

NombreDeLaBeast

Laura wrote: »

no. it wouldn't work in this game because people could do all roles all the time

that is still not true. Even if they expanded the bars by 2 or 3 buttons but limited the player to the 1 - 2 weapon combo, there would still be no way (except for maybe a few templar abilities) that would allow someone to fill the three (4 if you count CC patrol one.) at the same time. There Have been many times that I have had to pause and think and realized that if I just had 1 or 2 buttons then it would have been so much easier (sorc med armor lightning blademaster with arrow backup, it is fun but at times super frustrating.)

The only reason that I can think of that would eliminate any possibility of additional ability slots are those situations that I have been in. Maybe they do want us to think on our feet and make meaningful decisions about how we enter combat.

But what do I know.

rofflemywafflez

Spiderg1rl wrote: »

I can see what they were trying to do, and more so that they were trying to make us think more about what you have in your quick bar. I think the idea is sound but it might be worth having 7 or 8 instead and then the ultimate. There are just too many abilities overall to limit us to just 5 + the ultimate.

I think this best summarizes what I feel. 7 or 8 + the ultimate would be....perfect. I also understand that the 5 skills + ultimate system encourages teamwork within a group who has different abilities (one can drop stuns, other AoE's, other pure DPS, healer, etc.) I have 400+ hours in DoTA2, so I understand this perfectly.

Still though, a highly-coordinated group seems to be rare. Combat is more sporadic than anything, and when I see "hit X for Impale" I tap that sucker right away so just so I can get in on all the madness no matter what's going on, but that's as far as the "teamwork abilities" goes for me, compared to a game like DoTA where you setup multitudes of combo's between your teammates.

rofflemywafflez

NombreDeLaBeast wrote: »

Laura wrote: »

no. it wouldn't work in this game because people could do all roles all the time

Maybe they do want us to think on our feet and make meaningful decisions about how we enter combat.

But what do I know.

But see, why do I need Zenimax trying to think for me? I want to have freedom to choose how "I" want to play the game! But with balance too

Maverick827

I think they should give you a "use my main weapon set for my alternate set" checkbox on the equipment page. When checked, when you hit the swap button, only the bar changes. This would give people access to 10 buttons and 2 ultimates, but you lose the advantage of having a second, different weapon set.

This is already fairly possible to accomplish by just having an identical weapon in your other load out, so there's not any balance issues to worry about; it's more so just a quality of life thing.

malais

Horse is dead.

The skill bar as it is now forces intelligent play. Meaning you don't have access to all your skills you must build a deck of 2 hot bars that's it. Not 50 or more skills you get 2 bars that's it.

As it stands I use a cc bar and a pure heal bar. In pvp one uses stamina abilities alone and the other my heals all magika. I would love to drop my vamp abilities on the bar as well as my healing ultimate and my tanking ultimate.

But then what would be the point of making choices?

rofflemywafflez

malais wrote: »

Horse is dead.

The skill bar as it is now forces intelligent play...

.....I would love to drop my vamp abilities on the bar as well as my healing ultimate and my tanking ultimate.

....But then what would be the point of making choices?

But you see, I think the magicka restriction forces a lot of these choices, and that requires intelligent play too. None of the skills have a cooldown, so I can understand why having everything available can be a problem. Even still, if all the skills WERE available, you'd still mana/stamina issues.

I'm not saying we need EVERY skill on the hotbar, I think that could pose it's own problems too. All I would ask is for more skills to choose from. Like 7 or 8 + ult. The current system feels very inflexible, and subsequently boring when you use the same build over and over with 5 skills + an ultimate.

Seriously, what I'm saying is in the best interest of Zenimax because the gameplay as it stands IS fun, but redundant. This is why I usually shy away from most MMO's, because of the limitations when creating a game on such a large scale. They usually get boring for me by mid-game.

If there were more skills to choose from, I GUARANTEE it would attract more players, because player freedom in and of itself IS attractive. Think about what I'm saying and compare it to some of the most popular games of our day, and how they have turned out. DoTA 2 (the most popular PC game in the world) may have 4 skills per hero, but it has 80+ heroes to choose from creating a huge variety and unique synergy between each and every group of heroes. It is overwhelming at first, and takes time to learn, but once you get it, it's great. Why can't an MMO be equally as amazing? I see this potential in ESO because it is unique from other MMO's. Even if it makes the metagame more complex, that's fine. The game is rated for Mature audiences right? Let it play it like, dangit. The noobs will learn or get owned :P

I played Diablo 3 and got two of my heroes to level 60. By the time you hit the level cap, and had all the awesome loot, what you were left with was your abilities. I remember it came down to creating the "perfect build" with a limited skillset. On the hardest difficulity, it all came down to spamming, 1, 2 and 3 repeatedly. Thirty minutes to an hour into that, I was bored out of my mind, even though my build was very effective and op as can be. I later quit playing... and a lot of other D3 players did too. I don't want this to happen to ESO.

I just want more flexibility and freedom to play as I choose.

malais

You are free to play within the confines of ESO. Don't like it you are free to leave.

There are far more that are satisfied with the current setup or at least willing to see the challenge and art of creating a build using 10 skills. If you need more you are thinking old school MMO not with the way the genre is heading.

So head back to those old school games and let the genre evolve. Not turn into a previous version.

I do like how people complained in the beginning ESO was a wow clone and now people complain it isn't wow enough.

Over generalization but this argument is getting so old even he flies have left the horse. Why don't you?

Garetth

rofflemywafflez wrote: »

This is more of a rant than an actual post, but I would like to say I really would love to use more skills on the skill hotbar. Anyone else feel this way?

I'm a lvl 26 nightblade and I really, really love the ability to use "shadow cloak" in the middle of combat, stun and backstab for great damage with "veiled strike", and then finish them with "rapid strikes".

Consequently, that basic setup right there, as fun as it is, takes 3 of my skill slots. Pretty soon I'll be getting "siphoning strikes", but I'm not quite sure where I'll put it. I'm using "teleport strike" and "drain essence" (vampire ability) as my other 2 skills, and both are very fun to use.

Perhaps I'm missing the point and the ergonomics in the game and I'm supposed to be switching to the second skill hotbar in the middle of combat and that's what the dev's intended, but I would prefer to have more skills at hand.

See, I'm sure I could conjure up some incredibly awesome build using some of the "best skills" and stick with that all game.... but where's the fun in that? That's the point. I want to have fun playing the game in MY style of play (which is why I chose a rogue-ish character anyway), and have extra options too.

"Summon Shade", "Haste", and "Mark Target" interest me too.... but I doubt I'll ever use them just because I don't have room for them

I would go as far as to say that because of these limitations I'm actually losing interest in the game. ESO piqued my interest because of the skill-system, and I think it's the only thing sustaining my interest at this point. The weapons and armor are not all that unique from one another (except item set bonuses). I feel like I'm learning a limited skillset can make things boring. I imagine if things stick this way, by the time I'm 50+ I'll already have moved on to bigger and better things.

I love this game, I just want more options :P After coming from Dragon Age: Origins into this.... I know for sure I've been spoiled lol

NO! Not now! Not ever. Play with what you have and enjoy it. This is coming from a Templar who would seriously enjoy a few extra slots.

Garetth

rofflemywafflez wrote: »

malais wrote: »

Horse is dead.

The skill bar as it is now forces intelligent play...

.....I would love to drop my vamp abilities on the bar as well as my healing ultimate and my tanking ultimate.

....But then what would be the point of making choices?

But you see, I think the magicka restriction forces a lot of these choices, and that requires intelligent play too. None of the skills have a cooldown, so I can understand why having everything available can be a problem. Even still, if all the skills WERE available, you'd still mana/stamina issues.

I'm not saying we need EVERY skill on the hotbar, I think that could pose it's own problems too. All I would ask is for more skills to choose from. Like 7 or 8 + ult. The current system feels very inflexible, and subsequently boring when you use the same build over and over with 5 skills + an ultimate.

Seriously, what I'm saying is in the best interest of Zenimax because the gameplay as it stands IS fun, but redundant. This is why I usually shy away from most MMO's, because of the limitations when creating a game on such a large scale. They usually get boring for me by mid-game.

If there were more skills to choose from, I GUARANTEE it would attract more players, because player freedom in and of itself IS attractive. Think about what I'm saying and compare it to some of the most popular games of our day, and how they have turned out. DoTA 2 (the most popular PC game in the world) may have 4 skills per hero, but it has 80+ heroes to choose from creating a huge variety and unique synergy between each and every group of heroes. It is overwhelming at first, and takes time to learn, but once you get it, it's great. Why can't an MMO be equally as amazing? I see this potential in ESO because it is unique from other MMO's. Even if it makes the metagame more complex, that's fine. The game is rated for Mature audiences right? Let it play it like, dangit. The noobs will learn or get owned :P

I played Diablo 3 and got two of my heroes to level 60. By the time you hit the level cap, and had all the awesome loot, what you were left with was your abilities. I remember it came down to creating the "perfect build" with a limited skillset. On the hardest difficulity, it all came down to spamming, 1, 2 and 3 repeatedly. Thirty minutes to an hour into that, I was bored out of my mind, even though my build was very effective and op as can be. I later quit playing... and a lot of other D3 players did too. I don't want this to happen to ESO.

I just want more flexibility and freedom to play as I choose.

IMHO you aren't playing the game the way it should be played. I don't keep the same skills on my bar all the time.

When I move to a new area I see what works and what doesn't and I'm constantly modifying/reconfiguring my skill bar to adjust. THIS is exactly what I love about this game...you have to think and adjust to be at the top of your game.

Two mages and one melee? three mages? three melee? one heavy hitter and two or three weaklings? All with the same skill bar? I think not, especially at higher levels. After dying a couple times during the Mannimarco quest I re-thought my skill setup and defeated him the very next battle.

The skills are there but how do you present them to the enemy in order to get the maximum return..that is the question and I love it!

Stautmeister

Garetth wrote: »

rofflemywafflez wrote: »

malais wrote: »

Horse is dead.

The skill bar as it is now forces intelligent play...

.....I would love to drop my vamp abilities on the bar as well as my healing ultimate and my tanking ultimate.

....But then what would be the point of making choices?

But you see, I think the magicka restriction forces a lot of these choices, and that requires intelligent play too. None of the skills have a cooldown, so I can understand why having everything available can be a problem. Even still, if all the skills WERE available, you'd still mana/stamina issues.

I'm not saying we need EVERY skill on the hotbar, I think that could pose it's own problems too. All I would ask is for more skills to choose from. Like 7 or 8 + ult. The current system feels very inflexible, and subsequently boring when you use the same build over and over with 5 skills + an ultimate.

Seriously, what I'm saying is in the best interest of Zenimax because the gameplay as it stands IS fun, but redundant. This is why I usually shy away from most MMO's, because of the limitations when creating a game on such a large scale. They usually get boring for me by mid-game.

If there were more skills to choose from, I GUARANTEE it would attract more players, because player freedom in and of itself IS attractive. Think about what I'm saying and compare it to some of the most popular games of our day, and how they have turned out. DoTA 2 (the most popular PC game in the world) may have 4 skills per hero, but it has 80+ heroes to choose from creating a huge variety and unique synergy between each and every group of heroes. It is overwhelming at first, and takes time to learn, but once you get it, it's great. Why can't an MMO be equally as amazing? I see this potential in ESO because it is unique from other MMO's. Even if it makes the metagame more complex, that's fine. The game is rated for Mature audiences right? Let it play it like, dangit. The noobs will learn or get owned :P

I played Diablo 3 and got two of my heroes to level 60. By the time you hit the level cap, and had all the awesome loot, what you were left with was your abilities. I remember it came down to creating the "perfect build" with a limited skillset. On the hardest difficulity, it all came down to spamming, 1, 2 and 3 repeatedly. Thirty minutes to an hour into that, I was bored out of my mind, even though my build was very effective and op as can be. I later quit playing... and a lot of other D3 players did too. I don't want this to happen to ESO.

I just want more flexibility and freedom to play as I choose.

IMHO you aren't playing the game the way it should be played. I don't keep the same skills on my bar all the time.

When I move to a new area I see what works and what doesn't and I'm constantly modifying/reconfiguring my skill bar to adjust. THIS is exactly what I love about this game...you have to think and adjust to be at the top of your game.

Two mages and one melee? three mages? three melee? one heavy hitter and two or three weaklings? All with the same skill bar? I think not, especially at higher levels. After dying a couple times during the Mannimarco quest I re-thought my skill setup and defeated him the very next battle.

The skills are there but how do you present them to the enemy in order to get the maximum return..that is the question and I love it!

100% this.
Harder fights take planning and the smaller amount of skillsets increases the difficulty level for some of them.
Aoe vs single target, sustained vs burst, cc vs burn.
If you would have even 2 skills extra a lot of encounters would drop drastically in difficulty and woul require a complete reblance of skills.
Imagine in group play where people where using 5 skills for doing their job and than the other 2 for group buffs. (increase dmg, more regen, etc)

rofflemywafflez

.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

Always prepare ahead of fights switching one or two skill (I have a setup for aoe and I got a setup for bosses) can change the difficulty a lot.

Vaerth

rofflemywafflez wrote: »

This is more of a rant than an actual post, but I would like to say I really would love to use more skills on the skill hotbar. Anyone else feel this way?

I'm a lvl 26 nightblade and I really, really love the ability to use "shadow cloak" in the middle of combat, stun and backstab for great damage with "veiled strike", and then finish them with "rapid strikes".

Consequently, that basic setup right there, as fun as it is, takes 3 of my skill slots. Pretty soon I'll be getting "siphoning strikes", but I'm not quite sure where I'll put it. I'm using "teleport strike" and "drain essence" (vampire ability) as my other 2 skills, and both are very fun to use.

Perhaps I'm missing the point and the ergonomics in the game and I'm supposed to be switching to the second skill hotbar in the middle of combat and that's what the dev's intended, but I would prefer to have more skills at hand.

See, I'm sure I could conjure up some incredibly awesome build using some of the "best skills" and stick with that all game.... but where's the fun in that? That's the point. I want to have fun playing the game in MY style of play (which is why I chose a rogue-ish character anyway), and have extra options too.

"Summon Shade", "Haste", and "Mark Target" interest me too.... but I doubt I'll ever use them just because I don't have room for them

I would go as far as to say that because of these limitations I'm actually losing interest in the game. ESO piqued my interest because of the skill-system, and I think it's the only thing sustaining my interest at this point. The weapons and armor are not all that unique from one another (except item set bonuses). I feel like I'm learning a limited skillset can make things boring. I imagine if things stick this way, by the time I'm 50+ I'll already have moved on to bigger and better things.

I love this game, I just want more options :P After coming from Dragon Age: Origins into this.... I know for sure I've been spoiled lol

Go back to Dragon Age or deal with it, I think it is fine the way they made it.

Orizuru

I'm still of the mind that adding even one additional button to the action bar would result in a flood of QQ about resource management.

williams226

malais wrote: »

The skill bar as it is now forces intelligent play. Meaning you don't have access to all your skills you must build a deck of 2 hot bars that's it. Not 50 or more skills you get 2 bars that's it.

quote]

I so often see people running round ( usually Templars with their ice spear ) spamming the same button over and over and over. I guess you could argue to reduce the hotbar to 1 plus ultimate, it would suit the needs of many intelligent players.

Aoifesan

Sorry Zenimax got their consoles in your PC play. There is no other legitimate reason to have such a limited bar.

Niffo

Aoifesan wrote: »

Sorry Zenimax got their consoles in your PC play. There is no other legitimate reason to have such a limited bar.

There is if you want people to actually have to think about what to bring, instead of just bringing everything.

Tarwin

I'd be happy with another bar that is even restricted to the short term buff's you can get. It doesnt have to be attack "moves"

ArRashid

Censorious wrote: »

The whole point of limiting your skill slots is to prevent you having total access to all possible skills all the time. Remember, there are no cooldowns in this game.

Personally, I prefer it this way. I don't have to wait for things to come off CD. I have 5 skills right under my 5 fingers so I can hit them by 'twitch'. The whole thing just feels so much faster and more fluid. If I run out of stamina (or majicka or whatever), it just feels natural - same as in RL if you keep doing something, you get tired. Then I switch to a different form of attack until I've recovered.
- It just feel so right.

and that's how it should feel.
However, I believe having TOGGLE (= NOT FUN, not active, but really really necessary) skills like Siphoning Strikes, Inferno, Bound Armor, Inner Light and much more just waste a skill slot, while there is no real need for them to be "toggle" in the first place, and ppl would be much more satisfied if they were passives so they wouldn't waste one or more of your precious few slots.

I myself find myself in a tough situation, because I have no place for any utility skills on my bars (Reflective Scale, Molten Weapons, Igneous Shield, Dragon Blood....) because all my skills are AoEs or DoTs and I have no real "high damage, low cost" spell to spam in between.. since DoTs refresh instead of stacking. So I have Inner Light in my 5th slot, having Pulsar, Burning Talons, Blockade of Fire and Fire Clench in the other 4...
Switching Fire Clench to Elemental Drain on boss fights in dungs (when they don't pull boss till I manage to do that) but that's about it.... it would be so much better (and safer) to roll without wasting a slot for Inner Light at least (not to mention it's FUGLY effect)... but 20% spell crit is too much NOT to take..

I'm not sure how sad will I be when I get:
- Flames of Oblivion (might be nasty with magicka cost reducing enchants - almost free AoE)
- Molten Whip (aka the ONLY worthy single-target spell you have, but it has micro range )
- Deep Breath (heard it's a really good skill)
- Cinder Storm (damage, utility, long duration, sounds really nice)
and realize I can't use half skills at any given time.. although almost all of them are DoTs and there is no use in casting them again for the duration.. yet, no choice - you have to, since you can't use more than 4 abilities at once as a caster. 8 if you choose not to get any offspec and rather try to get 2 of the same weapons.

koregen

I don't know when MMO's became 5 button twitch fests or solo quest grind fests for that matter. Combat should be a combination strategic ability use and quick reaction. You can't exactly have much strategy with only 5 buttons + ultimate.

Weapon swap is a dumb mechanic, I completely blame console players. Half the time weapon swap doesn't even work properly in the fast paced pvp, you hit weapon swap followed up by an ability only to realize you didn't weapon swap and just spammed the wrong ability. How is this competitive???? How the heck can you justify a lag ridden modifier and claim it's for competitive twitch play.

My favourite is the dual weapon swap, you hit it once it doesn't work so you hit it again only to have it swap weapons twice back to where you started. At this point you think am I really going to attempt to swap again because I've basically just stood there doing absolutely nothing for 2 seconds.

So many abilities in game are situational but due to only having 5 hotkey slots you can't ever justify actually slotting them.

I hate having to manually swap abilities between pulls in a dungeon, which is what you should be doing if you want to maximize your output.

I really want to love this game so badly due to the DAOC pvp potential, but some of the design elements are so poor that it makes you question whether this game will ever get to where it needs to be to be considered the next big MMO.

This is NOT League of Legends, having only a few buttons is a must in that game because of its design of having over 100 champions with unique abilities. To adopt that system in an MMO is a complete failure and a lack of design talent and vision.

I don't need 50 hotkeys but give me enough where I actually have to make some decisions on which ability to use next based on the situation.

Crescent

The worse part is that some skills are summons that require the skill on both bars, reducing the synergy in play.


To give you an example, as a sorcerer 2 of your 10 slots are gone sustaining Magelight.

So you start with 8. 1 has to go to mana recovery, so either equilibrium or dark conversion. Down to 7.

Your single target nuke is Crystal Shards. Down to 6.

Your AoE is Impulse. Down to 5.

Surge is a mandatory upkeep buff. Down to 4.

Storm form (whatever morph) or Immovable is your mandatory survival tool. Down to 3.

Want an effective instant cast heal? Regen/Essence Drain. Down to 2.

With weapon's swap delay, storm form usually occupies both weaponslots as you don't want to get killed in a few seconds because your weaponswitch failed/took too long.

So you actually have 1 spare skill mostly. That can either be Encase or Mage's Wrath.


So look at the amount of variety you have for doing things. Basically a single spell with no variation for each task.

Want to do single target? Spam crystal Shards. Want AoE? Spam Impulse.

Of all the spells I listed, only 2 are real combat spells, maybe Encase can be considered an active combat skill as well. But let's be generous and consider Dark Conversion/Equilibrium and Regen combat spells (though I consider regen more of a buff in function).

So 3-4 out of 10 spells are combat spells. The other 6-7 are a bunch of upkeep buffs to function optimally in combat or stay alive.

Do you see the problem? It creates for very bland combat.

They need to prune the amount of upkeep buffs and replace it with interactive offensive/reactive defense spells. Spells that work in interesting combos.

koregen

malais wrote: »

Horse is dead.

The skill bar as it is now forces intelligent play. Meaning you don't have access to all your skills you must build a deck of 2 hot bars that's it. Not 50 or more skills you get 2 bars that's it.

How does this force intelligent gameplay? I can agree with this only as far as picking specific abilities before the fight starts. But once the fight actually starts only having 5 buttons is the exact opposite of intelligent play. There are no decisions to make you just keep spamming the same buttons over and over again. The situation changes and you can't do anything about it cause you are stuck with your loadout. Even worse is having to constantly change abilities between pulls, it's tedious and annoying.

Having 8 hotkeys would open up gameplay up so much. It would open up way more viable builds. There would be room for situational abilities which currently don't get used at all.

The 5 button system is very repetitive and boring.

Rev Rielle

I think five (ten with weapon swap) buttons is good. It makes us think a little.

koregen

Rev Rielle wrote: »

I think five (ten with weapon swap) buttons is good. It makes us think a little.

lol what exactly are you thinking about?