How do I access low level dungeons when I am a higher level than the grouping tool?

tedrogerstoneb16_ESO

I am level 22 and have only done the first level dungeon in my area. The grouping tool will not let me search for any groups in the first level of dungeons. Is there a way to access these dungeons and find a group to do them with? Thanks.

Shimond

Should be on your map (to go via wayshrine). If not there's a couple npcs that can reveal it for you.

WhiteQueen

The way I did it was to ask in my guild chat. Some people group up by talking in zone chat.

tedrogerstoneb16_ESO

Thanks I can get to them. I will try and get guild help.

Zerikin

You cannot use the LFG tool if you out level the dungeon. A very annoying gotcha.

nerevarine1138

Zerikin wrote: »

You cannot use the LFG tool if you out level the dungeon. A very annoying gotcha.

It's not a "gotcha". No game with a dungeon-finder tool will allow someone who completely outlevels a dungeon to use the finder. It's not meant to help you get a cheap clear of the content.

Melian

I grouped up with a lower level friend and had him use the LFG tool to find the other two.

ParkerHollb14_ESO

But the problem is it goes by zones, which do not necessarily mean you outlevel. For example you can go to the next zone when you are 4-5 levels higher than the dungeon. This makes it so the quest is still in green, but you have to wait 3-4 levels to be the lowest level for the next dungeon. At this point you are too low to do the next dungeon, but since you have left the zone you cannot do the dungeon that still falls within your appropriate level.

nerevarine1138

ParkerHollb14_ESO wrote: »

But the problem is it goes by zones, which do not necessarily mean you outlevel. For example you can go to the next zone when you are 4-5 levels higher than the dungeon. This makes it so the quest is still in green, but you have to wait 3-4 levels to be the lowest level for the next dungeon. At this point you are too low to do the next dungeon, but since you have left the zone you cannot do the dungeon that still falls within your appropriate level.

You can go to the next zone when you're 4-5 levels higher than the dungeon for that zone, but the only way to do that would be if you'd spent some serious leveling time in Cyrodiil.

Bazzakrak

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Zerikin wrote: »

You cannot use the LFG tool if you out level the dungeon. A very annoying gotcha.

It's not a "gotcha". No game with a dungeon-finder tool will allow someone who completely outlevels a dungeon to use the finder. It's not meant to help you get a cheap clear of the content.

That is not 100% true.
In Lord of the Rings Online, you can use the instance finder at lvl 95 to find groups for lower lvl instance/dungeons if it is what one desires

Lord_Hev

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

ParkerHollb14_ESO wrote: »

But the problem is it goes by zones, which do not necessarily mean you outlevel. For example you can go to the next zone when you are 4-5 levels higher than the dungeon. This makes it so the quest is still in green, but you have to wait 3-4 levels to be the lowest level for the next dungeon. At this point you are too low to do the next dungeon, but since you have left the zone you cannot do the dungeon that still falls within your appropriate level.

You can go to the next zone when you're 4-5 levels higher than the dungeon for that zone, but the only way to do that would be if you'd spent some serious leveling time in Cyrodiil.

I have not entered Cyrodiil, not even once. I have constantly outleveled my content to the point where I was level 45 and just finishing the third to final zone [for me Malabal Tor] Very annoying for me, because my ultimate for the most part was inaccessible due to ZOS' odd logic here, and I felt pretty much crippled.


I did all the quests and never strayed from picking every fight on said quests. I was consistently 4-5 levels above my "next" zone before even finishing the one I was currently in. How odd? Even more odd when I hear some people complaining about being under-leveled? Weird. I guess I just kill too many groups of enemies on my way to places? I notice everyone else around me just zooms past enemies to rush to the next quest. I actually challenge every creature on my path. Maybe that's why.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Zerikin wrote: »

You cannot use the LFG tool if you out level the dungeon. A very annoying gotcha.

It's not a "gotcha". No game with a dungeon-finder tool will allow someone who completely outlevels a dungeon to use the finder. It's not meant to help you get a cheap clear of the content.

You do not outlevel a dungeon until you are 20 levels higher. a level 15 dungeon with level 12 enemies, is actually filled with level 25 enemies disguised as level 12.


If said problem is the anticipation, then there should be a 20 level limit. But if you outlevel a 15 dungeon, and you are merely a few levels higher[like level 20-25ish] The option should still be there.


If you really outlevel it[you are now level 35 - 40] then maybe, I can understand the logic here. But at level 25, you will still fail the dungeon if your other 3 are just at the level limit of "12." Especially when the level 25 is crippled because he cannot charge his ultimate because he outlevels the lvl 12 enemies that are actually level 25 in disguise themselves.

Yes, I speak on actual experience. Took me awhile at level 23 to find a competent group that were levels 15, 17, 17 to help me. Spending an hour spamming zone chat for help...


The grouping tools need work... as do the "balancing mechanics" of "level disparity."

nudel

Lord_Hev wrote: »

You do not outlevel a dungeon until you are 20 levels higher. a level 15 dungeon with level 12 enemies, is actually filled with level 25 enemies disguised as level 12.


If said problem is the anticipation, then there should be a 20 level limit. But if you outlevel a 15 dungeon, and you are merely a few levels higher[like level 20-25ish] The option should still be there.

Whoa where are you getting that logic? I've done dungeons that I only moderately outleveled accidentally (lvl 12-15 as a lvl 21) with only 2 other players and they were pretty easy compared to how challenging they can be on level. I definitely do not agree that the enemies within are secretly 20 levels higher than their labels. I did Spindleclutch as a lvl 20 with a lvl 20, a lvl 25, and a lvl 10. It was nowhere near as challenging as it was when I did it at lvl 12 with 3 other lvl 12s. If it took awhile to find a 'competent group', it means just that. Not that the dungeon is secretly a lvl 35 dungeon, but rather that it's a new game and people have to adjust to the boss and dungeon mechanics.

I agree it can be annoying to accidentally get locked out of the LFG for a dungeon. This happened to me with the first round of dungeons simply because I saved them for last and I did all the content in the zone and I do mean all. This left me significantly overleveled. However, I have to agree with nerevarine that it does serve to offer onlevel players challenging dungeon runs. I would have been pretty annoyed as a lvl 12 using the LFG if some random lvl 20s joined my group and watered down the experience. It's one thing to knowingly invite them and quite another to have them thrust upon you by the group finder.

In any case, I'm not a huge fan of the LFG and I was easily able to find people to group with in zone chat.

Lord_Hev

I wasn't saying they were 20 levels higher, more like 10ish. The level 12 enemies in Banished Cells have comparable health to similar creatures you can find at level 20s. Now add in fighting a dozen of them at a time.


At the time, I was 23, my first two groups[all failure, could not get past the second boss] were 8, 12, 14.

If a level 20 truly "out-levels" BC according to ZOS' logic, then I should have been able to carry most of the weight. Instead, I was crippled[My ultimate NEVER charges because the level 20 enemies are in lvl 12 disguises] and my other partners get slaughtered.


Now compare to me doing this dungeon again at level 35.(I was helping a friend) with me at level 35, and my friend in late 25-27ish, we were able to duo it alone.


Now THAT is outleveling. Not "happening" to be only 10 levels higher.[level 20-25] and having my much needed ultimate disabled, and hoping that I find competent level 15-19 players in zone chat, because my grouping tools dictate that I can only do Elden Hollow now, period. No ifs, ands, or buts.

nerevarine1138

Lord_Hev wrote: »

I have not entered Cyrodiil, not even once. I have constantly outleveled my content to the point where I was level 45 and just finishing the third to final zone [for me Malabal Tor] Very annoying for me, because my ultimate for the most part was inaccessible due to ZOS' odd logic here, and I felt pretty much crippled.


I did all the quests and never strayed from picking every fight on said quests. I was consistently 4-5 levels above my "next" zone before even finishing the one I was currently in. How odd? Even more odd when I hear some people complaining about being under-leveled? Weird. I guess I just kill too many groups of enemies on my way to places? I notice everyone else around me just zooms past enemies to rush to the next quest. I actually challenge every creature on my path. Maybe that's why.
[snip]

I completely cleared every quest, every anchor, every world boss and every dungeon (including the other 2 factions) in every zone before moving on. You did some grinding somewhere along the way, because what you're describing is impossible, even if you killed everything on the way to each quest.

As to the rest of your post: wrong. Only bosses in dungeons are elite levels. The groups are all composed of regular level enemies, and you're not meant to do it alone. So they're not calculating levels based on whether or not a lone person could comfortably enter the dungeon, because... wait for the punchline... you aren't supposed to do it.

nudel

Having dungeon bosses and mobs actually have higher health than trash overworld mobs in the next zone...I don't really see how that's imbalanced. The 4-man instanced dungeons are supposed to be harder. Higher health bars is one form of increasing difficulty. Higher damage is another, equally shallow form. The large amount of mobs per pull and the unique attacks given to bosses are much better forms of difficulty. None of this can be equated to them being lvl 35. That's like saying, 'I can't faceroll this boss so it's clearly not on my level'. It's a boss. Of course, it should be challenging and likely require grouping.

The lack of Ult charge on lower lvl mobs is a necessary downside to killing mobs under your level, even bosses. This is one of the ways in which the game tries to nudge players more towards on-level content. However, if you're really truly overleveled (6+ levels over the enemies you're fighting), there's really no reason you should be so reliant on having Ult anyway.

If your group fails to get by the boss, it's not all because you didn't have Ult. There could be a great variety of reasons for it. Could be poor group composition. Could be poor communication. Could be that players weren't using defensive mechanics (block, interrupt, dodge) or CC appropriately, possibly because they were still new to the idea. Could be that they struggled with comprehending and countering boss mechanics (AOE, power attacks, etc.). Hell it could be something so trivial as forgetting to repair before entering the dungeon and thus having very little armor left. There are many reasons that a group can struggle with a dungeon. You not generating Ult is the least of your problems.

Lord_Hev

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

As to the rest of your post: wrong. Only bosses in dungeons are elite levels. The groups are all composed of regular level enemies, and you're not meant to do it alone. So they're not calculating levels based on whether or not a lone person could comfortably enter the dungeon, because... wait for the punchline... you aren't supposed to do it.

No. They. Are. Not.


The level 12 skeletons in BC, SIGNIFICANTLY out-damage/endure than the level 15 skeletons in the nearby quest in the area directly above BC's entrance.

The level 12 skeleton guardians[the tall armored ones] are more difficult than the named level 15 mini-bosses in the above public quest.


Those level 12 enemies have the stats of level 22.

Rosveen

You're right in that you can't carry a lower level group alone. It's a group dungeon, one person isn't supposed to be doing all the work. But you don't know how many overleveled players you'd be grouped with; if you get more than one, it will start to noticably impact the difficulty level. I ran Spindle and Fungal with a group of all 18-20 and it was a breeze. I didn't mind, I went there only for skillpoints, but I understand that some people want a challenge.

Anyway, I normally look for a group in zone chat or even simply in front of the dungeon. There's always someone looking for a tank. Nevermind that I suck because I put all my points into crafting. Erm. As long as we survive...

nudel

Lord_Hev wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

As to the rest of your post: wrong. Only bosses in dungeons are elite levels. The groups are all composed of regular level enemies, and you're not meant to do it alone. So they're not calculating levels based on whether or not a lone person could comfortably enter the dungeon, because... wait for the punchline... you aren't supposed to do it.

No. They. Are. Not.


The level 12 skeletons in BC, SIGNIFICANTLY out-damage/endure than the level 15 skeletons in the nearby quest in the area directly above BC's entrance.

The level 12 skeleton guardians[the tall armored ones] are more difficult than the named level 15 mini-bosses in the above public quest.


Those level 12 enemies have the stats of level 22.

Dude this argument is completely flawed. You're comparing the stats of a lvl 12 dungeon mob (which is by definition supposed to be harder) to the stats of a normal overworld lvl 22. Considering the overworld content has already been nerfed, your comparison becomes even more invalid. It's like comparing a paid professional athlete to a little leaguer. Which one do you think is going to be more challenging? Overworld content is balanced for solo play. Instanced group dungeons are... SURPRISE...balanced for groups. You'll have to outlevel it a lot to be able to solo it. But that does not mean that the mobs inside are lvl 35 because you have to be lvl 35 to solo it. Rather it means you're trying to take on content in a way that is not intended. You shouldn't be able to carry the team because that's boring for both the person carrying and the people being carried.

Lord_Hev

nudel wrote: »

Dude this argument is completely flawed. You're comparing the stats of a lvl 12 dungeon mob (which is by definition supposed to be harder) to the stats of a normal overworld lvl 22. Considering the overworld content has already been nerfed, your comparison becomes even more invalid. It's like comparing a paid professional athlete to a little leaguer. Which one do you think is going to be more challenging? Overworld content is balanced for solo play. Instanced group dungeons are... SURPRISE...balanced for groups. You'll have to outlevel it a lot to be able to solo it. But that does not mean that the mobs inside are lvl 35 because you have to be lvl 35 to solo it. Rather it means you're trying to take on content in a way that is not intended. You shouldn't be able to carry the team because that's boring for both the person carrying and the people being carried.

I have nothing wrong with that. But if this mechanic is going to cripple me, then I call shenanigans. My level 20 character should not be crippled by enemies that appear as level 12 to hidden game coding, while statistically having the stats of level 22 enemies.


I guess my real gripe is the arbitrary disablement of Ultimate charge against "lower than 5" leveled enemies.


I would have fared BETTER at level 18, which is barely any noticeable difference than me at level 20. Because at least at level 18, I would not have been crippled by some stupid arbitrary law that is inherently flawed.


Either remove the Ultimate cripple, or show their damn actual level. Group dungeon or not if they are going to paste a number on an enemy, then it should correlate with my level, since ZOS is using such a mechanic as of now.

nerevarine1138

Lord_Hev wrote: »

I have nothing wrong with that. But if this mechanic is going to cripple me, then I call shenanigans. My level 20 character should not be crippled by enemies that appear as level 12 to hidden game coding, while statistically having the stats of level 22 enemies.


I guess my real gripe is the arbitrary disablement of Ultimate charge against "lower than 5" leveled enemies.


I would have fared BETTER at level 18, which is barely any noticeable difference than me at level 20. Because at least at level 18, I would not have been crippled by some stupid arbitrary law that is inherently flawed.


Either remove the Ultimate cripple, or show their damn actual level. Group dungeon or not if they are going to paste a number on an enemy, then it should correlate with my level, since ZOS is using such a mechanic as of now.

Let's try this again:

You are in a group dungeon. You are not meant to be able to solo it at any level. It is never going to be balanced around solo play.

nudel

My point is if you're overleveled and using all the tools available to you effectively (skills, equipment, defensive abilities), there is no reason that not having Ult should cripple you. None. If your entire playstyle centers around dropping Ult repeatedly, you seriously need to go back to the drawing board.

And as nerevarine and I have both said now half a dozen times, this is a group dungeon. You and your Ult should not carry the team.

Lord_Hev

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Let's try this again:

You are in a group dungeon. You are not meant to be able to solo it at any level. It is never going to be balanced around solo play.

I am not asking it to be solo-balanced. I am asking that the level of the enemies correlate with their damn number next to their name, so that the leveled enemies I am facing, feel like the level I should be expecting. I should not be crippled at level 20, when I am at my apex at level 19 against level 14 enemies that have the stats of level 24 enemies. Thank you very much.

Lord_Hev

nudel wrote: »

My point is if you're overleveled and using all the tools available to you effectively (skills, equipment, defensive abilities), there is no reason that not having Ult should cripple you. None. If your entire playstyle centers around dropping Ult repeatedly, you seriously need to go back to the drawing board.

And as nerevarine and I have both said now half a dozen times, this is a group dungeon. You and your Ult should not carry the team.

Umm, yes it should. Because at the level range, I fill my ult fighting just one trash group. Yet SUDDENLY ONE level above the "balance" I am crippled. ONE LEVEL ABOVE. lolnope.


This is fake difficulty. This is unbalanced. This is cheap. This is logically flawed. This is misleading. This is stupid.

Gillysan

tedrogerstoneb16_ESO wrote: »

I am level 22 and have only done the first level dungeon in my area. The grouping tool will not let me search for any groups in the first level of dungeons. Is there a way to access these dungeons and find a group to do them with? Thanks.

This thread got side tracked by someone who doesn't understand how MMO's are designed. Trying to reel the convo back to the issue the OP was about. Also trying to avoid starting a new thread that will likely get side tracked as well. *groan*

The obvious answer here is that the grouping tool needs some upgrading. If people really have a problem with higher level people simply trying to finish the game, there should be a setting to only group with appropriate leveled players. However, since they went old school with this games design, old problems get revisited.

This is the bug report I filed. I consider it a bug and not feedback. Especially since there are ways to circumvent it...

Grouping Tool: I found that I easily outleveled Greenshade before I got around to finishing all the quests and doing the group dungeon City of Ash. I went to try to use the grouping tool to do the City of Ash but it does not allow me to select this dungeon. It automatically filters out this tier of dungeon and I can only select the next higher tier of dungeons even though I have yet to complete City of Ash.

I know there are ways around it but the grouping tool should not make it harder for me to group, it should make it easier. It is punishing me for being a completionist.

The problem here is that these dungeons advance your Undaunted rank. Unlike other people who claim to be completionists but actually fail to find quests and things to do in zones, I actually do find and explore the whole map. I do not grind. I do not farm public dungeons. I do not farm anchors.

The only thing I do that might be remotely close to farming is that I will run around harvesting nodes & chatting in zone trying to build my craft related clientele. I noticed I get xp from chests even though mobs are turning grey around me. Eventually the chests do turn grey however, but that is a topic for another bug report (clarifying: I think chest xp should be separated into it's own skill tree, tuned way down, or removed completely).

Morthur

.

Turial

I am locked out of content because I levelled? @nerevarine1138‌ that is a ridiculous system that breaks all kinds of logic. We can still enter lower level dungeons so yes we are supposed to do the content there, videogame morals say we should do it at our level but there are many out there who cannot find a group at their level, who cannot complete the dungeon at their level, there are many who are not interested in dungeons unless helping a guildie and if they are overlevelled it means they should not be allowed to experience it? Ridiculous!

nerevarine1138

Turial wrote: »

I am locked out of content because I levelled? @nerevarine1138‌ that is a ridiculous system that breaks all kinds of logic. We can still enter lower level dungeons so yes we are supposed to do the content there, videogame morals say we should do it at our level but there are many out there who cannot find a group at their level, who cannot complete the dungeon at their level, there are many who are not interested in dungeons unless helping a guildie and if they are overlevelled it means they should not be allowed to experience it? Ridiculous!

Reading is your friend.

You are not locked out of content. You simply can't use the group finder, which is the same system you find in almost every other MMO in the world. You are welcome to go back to the dungeon when you are a higher level, but you will need to manually form your group. That's all. Somehow, I think you'll survive.

Lalai

The group finder does need some refining. Personally I'd like to see the level limit extended so that you can do the dungeon up until a point where either you're nerfing the already low exp a dungeon gives (which I'd also like to see buffed a bit), or the bosses will no longer drop loot for you. I'd also like all the dungeons, with their level range, that I've discovered listed there.. so when someone is asking what dungeons are for their level, I can easily answer.. Realize that's a nit-picky quality of life deal, no rush to add it.

As far as the question for how to do the dungeon if you're overleved.. Couple things you can do.. if you're looking to go to it without any assistance from others, the quickest way to uncover the dungeons is by talking to the Undaunted. They can be found in the tavern of whatever major city is for the area you're in. For Glenumbra that's Daggerfall, Stormhaven it's Wayrest, Rivenspire has Shornhelm and so on. Talk to all of them and they'll mark out all three of the dungeons for the level range that fits that area. You can then teleport to them on your map, or by using a wayshrine.

If you're going with the assistance of other folks, you can look for shouts in zone and then whisper them. If I'm overleveled I'll usually confirm with the person looking for folks what level I am. Once in a group you can travel to another player that's already in the dungeon. I've found most people don't have an issue with higher level folks joining in on the run.

AVCN

Problem is not, I think so much related to the ways we can group. At least for me, the main problem is that I was forced to move away from certain maps due to the number of bugs and farming bots at quests and public dungeons. So, if I want the acomplishments, I have to go back say, to Stonefalls to run through Fungal Grotto. Solo it? Tried once. Killed the zergs of the first two bosses, killed the first boss. Hard fights, died a lot. Second boss? Ha. Lets just say spending money fixing my armor was my reward. Sure, its group, not solo, duh.
But when you about twice the average level of fhe folks waiting to form a group, its not easy to find mates.

Turial

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Turial wrote: »

I am locked out of content because I levelled? @nerevarine1138‌ that is a ridiculous system that breaks all kinds of logic. We can still enter lower level dungeons so yes we are supposed to do the content there, videogame morals say we should do it at our level but there are many out there who cannot find a group at their level, who cannot complete the dungeon at their level, there are many who are not interested in dungeons unless helping a guildie and if they are overlevelled it means they should not be allowed to experience it? Ridiculous!

Reading is your friend.

You are not locked out of content. You simply can't use the group finder, which is the same system you find in almost every other MMO in the world. You are welcome to go back to the dungeon when you are a higher level, but you will need to manually form your group. That's all. Somehow, I think you'll survive.

Reading is your friend.

You are locked out of content. You cannot use the group tool, while you can in other MMOs regardless of level. You can go back to the dungeon but you need to form your party before entering, which means spamming zone/guild chat for a group. You cannot, I repeat, cannot receive the dungeon quest if you are over the dungeons level. Ergo, locked out of content, locked out of a skill point and since you are over-levelled you are also locked out of loot. Somehow, I think the system is broken.

nerevarine1138

Turial wrote: »

Reading is your friend.

You are locked out of content. You cannot use the group tool, while you can in other MMOs regardless of level. You can go back to the dungeon but you need to form your party before entering, which means spamming zone/guild chat for a group. You cannot, I repeat, cannot receive the dungeon quest if you are over the dungeons level. Ergo, locked out of content, locked out of a skill point and since you are over-levelled you are also locked out of loot. Somehow, I think the system is broken.

You do not need to use the group finder to find party members for a dungeon. I've only used it once so far, but I've had no problem just getting a party together in zone chat. And no, you don't get to use group finders in most other MMOs after you outlevel a dungeon (WoW comes to mind). Hell, in other games, you don't always get a group finder.

I'm not aware of any issues receiving the quest for the dungeon when you are over-levelled (level has nothing to do with quest availability), but you should not be able to get loot for content that is >5 levels below you. That's not broken; that's to prevent you from getting rewarded for clearing overly easy content.