Dungeon boss bots - some suggestions

bwilson.homeb16_ESO

If you can't (or won't) remove the problem, remove some of the reasons.

I got to thinking about WHY bots flock to dungeon bosses. I know players farm them for specific drops or lots of whites for deconstruction, but once their bags are full, they leave. Bots don't. It's not effective for them to leave and return and it's much more difficult to automate so they can run unsupervised. Here are some of the reasons I think they're there, and easily implemented solutions to make it less worthwhile.

1) Exp
Fast fixed-spot respawn and (I think) larger than usual exp per kill, making it the obvious spot to bot level raises
SOLUTION: Make dungeon bosses give zero exp for kill, and raise the 'first kill/dungeon complete' bonus to compensate

2) Cash
They don't drop much gold, but they do drop soulstones. These sell for a comparatively large amount and stack to 100, meaning it's a steady cashflow income without having to worry about running low on space. 4 bots, 15g per ~30s, over 7k per hour, 170k for running a set of bots in one dungeon for 24h
SOLUTION: Soulstones sell for 0g, like so much other stuff in the game. Players can still farm them for use (rez/charge) but they aren't a disproportionately large ticket cash item

Both of these solutions are trivially easy to implement, look to have no obvious problems with conflicts in a complex system, and have negligible effect on the legitimate player base.

I know it won't solve the problem, but I believe it would go some way to moving them on from the industrial-scale automation they're currently engaged in.

Savinder

The solution is "simple"*: after you kill a boss once, you can no longer do any damage to it for a while.
That way, bots that are camping the boss will just get killed by it once it respawns and legitimate players will not only be able to get the requisite hit in to complete the dungeon, but also deal enough damage to be rewarded with a loot drop.
It will also prevent players from purposefully farming the boss (an activity that I personally do not mind), but I think that it would be a small price to pay for normal players to be able to get a proper fight and be properly rewarded for it, while preventing bot-farming.

While I understand the reasoning behind your suggestions, I don't think bots will stop farming if those are implemented.

*Disclaimer: "simple" to come up with the idea. It might not be simple to implement.

bwilson.homeb16_ESO

Yeah, I was trying to come up solutions which required the minimal effort to implement, just changing a couple of data values.

Savinder

bwilson.homeb16_ESO wrote: »

Yeah, I was trying to come up solutions which required the minimal effort to implement, just changing a couple of data values.

Yeah, altering a few values would certainly be easier, quicker and have less of an impact than changing how one or more game mechanics work.
I didn't think of the ease of implementation for a temporary but immediate solution to the current issue.

Orain

One not so simple but logical fix would be to force a player to exit the instance after killing the boss then coming back in. That would allow for no changes to the loot tables, removing of the bots for a period of time, and a window for a spawn or 2 while they run out and reset themselves.

crowfl56

easy fix once you kill the boss for the quest it no longer drops items or gains exp.

Liquorice

Maybe more of a graduated scale? Each time the boss is killed it gives less and less xp and loot, so after 5-10 times it gives very little.

Anoteros

Over complicating things.
Simply make the delves instanced ie: scale for solo play or based on how many people are in the group) and add a limit to how many you can do in an hour or so.
Simple.

Darzil

The Bots (unless banned) will farm wherever there is the best gold return per hour. They are far more scientific about it than most players.

The only cure is to make it uneconomic for them to operate. This is a tricky balance. You basically need to make playing 'normally' to be close to the best way to make an income, for players to have something to save for, but something that is within reach so they don't feel they want to buy gold, and to take enough gold out of the game that there isn't rampant inflation.

Anoteros

Dear ZOS,

Go see how WoW and other MMORPG's deal and have dealt with gold spam and botting.
Thanks.

tripiseanb14_ESO

As a player that farms end dungeon bosses for crafting mats, I take exception to the idea of changing the loot table.
I actually don't notice botting being a huge problem down there, I'm usually chatting it up with the other people in the bottom of the dungeon. That said, i don't doubt it happens, I just don't think its as prevalent as everyone thinks. For example, maybe I look like I'm botting, but, really I'm just watching a movie and tapping the 1 button repeatedly.

I get that it may be frustrating for other people, but, look at it from my point of view, so is leveling blacksmithing.

Regardless. Wouldn't the solution just be to ban the bots?

Darzil

tripiseanb14_ESO wrote: »

I get that it may be frustrating for other people, but, look at it from my point of view, so is leveling blacksmithing.

Interesting. I don't do this, am level 16 in blacksmithing, but am only level 22, so can make stuff way in advance of my level. If you are farming a low level dungeon for drops you aren't high enough in level to need to spend a single point in blacksmithing in order to make equipment. Blacksmithing and other trades go up faster than your level if you deconstruct things rather than selling them.

I do accept, though, that this is far and away the best way to obtain equipment to break down. Personally I think when one method is much better than any other there is a balance issue that should be addressed.

bwilson.homeb16_ESO

tripiseanb14_ESO wrote: »

I get that it may be frustrating for other people, but, look at it from my point of view, so is leveling blacksmithing.

Regardless. Wouldn't the solution just be to ban the bots?

My idea was no change to the loot tables except zeroing the cash cow that is soul gems. You can still farm mats, because you have to keep leaving once your inventory is filled. You aren't leaving automated account sitting there for hours on end. I don't want to hurt people farming if that's what they choose to do, just the attractiveness of bots harvesting soul gems to vendor.

Sure, banning the bots is a solution, albeit a temporary one because they'll always come back. It's considerably more difficult and time intensive to do than my suggestions though. I picked those two specifically because they were simple database changes, rather than anything involving complex coding or lots of man hours.

Divayith

I think the botting is really only prevalent in the first and maybe second zone dungeons, Ive noticed the higher level I get the fewer people I see around bosses. But those low level dungeons have quite a few people without the achievement spawning the bosses which makes them more lucrative for bots. In the VR dungeons I have seen ZERO bots, and I'll farm the bosses three to five times before I leave.

LeadFaith

Anoteros wrote: »

Over complicating things.
Simply make the delves instanced ie: scale for solo play or based on how many people are in the group) and add a limit to how many you can do in an hour or so.
Simple.

I would really, really like to see this change. I don't think players deserve to be rewarded with boss drops for swinging in the same place for hours while watching a movie.

Not only is this rewarding undeserving players, but it prevents my completion of the dungeon because the boss dies as soon as it spawns, I have to wait for several spawns before I get enough hits in so I can leave.

The way things are now also degrades the whole point of the dungeon, a "boss" should be a challenge and offer a suitable reward for completing it, not get farmed for items that should have only been gotten through a good fight.

NeKryXe

i've been unable to get most of the drops from dungeon bosses, i wasn't understanding how was this possible until a few minutes ago that someone told me that those stupid guys at the end of the dungeons are bots. this is really weird for a paid game, i wasn't really expecting this, so, i decided to quit ESO at the end of my first month and try again later in another time when all the bots are banned. this thing is unacceptable.

NeKryXe

will it help for bans to report the cheaters? i've been watching those stupid guys at the end of the dungeons and i noticed that it's quite easy to identify the bot cheaters by attracting other menaces next to them, that makes all the bots to kill that thing and return very fast for the same point where all the cheaters wait together.

at least those fraudulent player could configure their bots with times that would let honest players to kill the boss one time. they are too fast.

tripiseanb14_ESO

Darzil wrote: »

tripiseanb14_ESO wrote: »

I get that it may be frustrating for other people, but, look at it from my point of view, so is leveling blacksmithing.

Interesting. I don't do this, am level 16 in blacksmithing, but am only level 22, so can make stuff way in advance of my level. If you are farming a low level dungeon for drops you aren't high enough in level to need to spend a single point in blacksmithing in order to make equipment. Blacksmithing and other trades go up faster than your level if you deconstruct things rather than selling them.

I do accept, though, that this is far and away the best way to obtain equipment to break down. Personally I think when one method is much better than any other there is a balance issue that should be addressed.

I guess its not so much the blacksmithing exp as it is getting the Dwarven Oil to make blues. But, I am level 39, the exp slows down higher up. I am not sticking to low level dungeons, I am moving up in dungeons as I level.