Necromancy Skill-Line

Humor

Hello all,

So, I've searched the forums and so forth, and found very few topics mentioning a Necromancy skill-line, and those that have are quite old.

I'd just like to start a simple discussion on others thoughts about a Necromancy skill-line. Many I'm sure (such as myself) have no doubt a Necromancy skill-line will open up during future updates, or at least we can only pray.

I personally would love to see a Necromancy skill-line, I've always loved dabbling into "Death Magic", and have always been one who's enjoyed summoning minions/creatures to my aid. I'd love to see different Necromancy summons, other than your generic skeleton mage/archer/warrior. It would be interesting to make many different used of Necromancy summons, such as meat shields that when they die, explode, draining players/enemies MP, rather than their HP. Something a bit more creative. Of course, I'd definitely like to see the generic skeletons, but having the ability to morph them into either a Skeletal Archer, and or Warrior, upon leveling up the skill. Same with something like a Flesh Atranoch, morphing into either a Fire, or Frost Atranoch, (can't really do lightning, since Sorc's have em already).

Anyways, just thought I'd create a "newer" discussion about Necromany, and what other players thoughts are on this.

rawne1980b16_ESO

As long as it sticks to lore.

If you take up necromancy you lose access to the Mages guild buildings.

I know they are going to completely screw up lore there and we'll have necromancers running all over though.

nerevarine1138

I love that you have no doubt a necromancy skill line will open up. Those of us who have paid attention to the lore have some serious doubts that it will make it in.

If it does, it needs to carry some serious penalties.

Humor

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I love that you have no doubt a necromancy skill line will open up. Those of us who have paid attention to the lore have some serious doubts that it will make it in.

If it does, it needs to carry some serious penalties.

Can't say I've paid attention to the lore too much in TES, I'm definitely not one of those guy's who is going to read every single book in the entire game just for some silly fanatic lore (my opinion of course), but I do keep up with the Main Storylines, and some of the side-lines as well. I guess I'm not well educated in the lore of Necromancy in TES, other than it's dark-forbidden magic.

I suppose I just find it odd, you're able to use all these summons in other TES games without no penalties, such as summoning skeletons, Atranochs, etc, etc. Definitely no penalty in Skyrim for doing so, unless I completely missed it. And I don't think there was in Oblivion either.

But, I wouldn't mind penalties I suppose, in fact, I welcome penalties, and different outcomes. I'm kind of wishing TESO would have had more "outcomes"/penalties than it already does.

I would just hope that for the sake of TES, they keep "Necromancy" away from a "Class", and make it available to everyone.

nerevarine1138

Humor wrote: »

Can't say I've paid attention to the lore too much in TES, I'm definitely not one of those guy's who is going to read every single book in the entire game just for some silly fanatic lore (my opinion of course), but I do keep up with the Main Storylines, and some of the side-lines as well. I guess I'm not well educated in the lore of Necromancy in TES, other than it's dark-forbidden magic.

I suppose I just find it odd, you're able to use all these summons in other TES games without no penalties, such as summoning skeletons, Atranochs, etc, etc. Definitely no penalty in Skyrim for doing so, unless I completely missed it. And I don't think there was in Oblivion either.

But, I wouldn't mind penalties I suppose, in fact, I welcome penalties, and different outcomes. I'm kind of wishing TESO would have had more "outcomes"/penalties than it already does.

I would just hope that for the sake of TES, they keep "Necromancy" away from a "Class", and make it available to everyone.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Necromancy

Read up.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

despite the ban on necromancy in the oblivion game, no one would say a thing if you summoned a skeleton in the imperial city, despite the ban in morrowind, same thing (those two games were barely 17 years apart canon wise) despite the distaste in skyrim, no penalty or law was exacted for raising the dead or summoning wrathmen.

each of the last 3 games have had the ability to summon dead despite the moral ramifications.

in fact there is a lich in grahtwood that split from mannimarco's cult, and uses necromancy for what little good it can do. the fact is, magic is not intrinsically good or evil, its the person behind it, the intention.

the dominion, the altmer, have a large distaste and xenophobic view on daedra, yet the sorcerer and its daedric summoning is barred from nothing.

the fact of the matter is, when you take all these facts into account, there is no way they will not add necromancy in the future. however what it will be added as, a class or worldskill, is not clear.

i say it needs to be a class in of itself, something of a hybrid of a healer and a sorcerer, being the healing tree called corruption, the summoning tree called necromancy, and the third tree called death magic. this will allow for a varity of character types, such as a death knight, necromancer, or just a evil healer.

if you make it a world skill or guild skill, then it gives to much power to us sorcerers, allowing us far far to many summons, and while i would personally like that, it would break the balance.

PBpsy

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

As long as it sticks to lore.

If you take up necromancy you lose access to the Mages guild buildings.

I know they are going to completely screw up lore there and we'll have necromancers running all over though.

I agree . But considering that one should have been banished from cities and fair game for pvp in any zone as a vampire/werewolf I don't think they care that much about lore.

soulclaw

Why is summoning demonic creatures acceptable but animating the dead not acceptable?

ValyrianStormborn

i say it needs to be a class in of itself, something of a hybrid of a healer and a sorcerer, being the healing tree called corruption, the summoning tree called necromancy, and the third tree called death magic. this will allow for a varity of character types, such as a death knight, necromancer, or just a evil healer.

LOVE IT!! Get on it People lol.

Noth

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

i say it needs to be a class in of itself, something of a hybrid of a healer and a sorcerer, being the healing tree called corruption, the summoning tree called necromancy, and the third tree called death magic. this will allow for a varity of character types, such as a death knight, necromancer, or just a evil healer.

if you make it a world skill or guild skill, then it gives to much power to us sorcerers, allowing us far far to many summons, and while i would personally like that, it would break the balance.

I don't see it making Sorcs any stronger since each summon would take up a skill slot and take more magicka away and probably be just as weak as the current summons.

Humor

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

despite the ban on necromancy in the oblivion game, no one would say a thing if you summoned a skeleton in the imperial city, despite the ban in morrowind, same thing (those two games were barely 17 years apart canon wise) despite the distaste in skyrim, no penalty or law was exacted for raising the dead or summoning wrathmen.

each of the last 3 games have had the ability to summon dead despite the moral ramifications.

in fact there is a lich in grahtwood that split from mannimarco's cult, and uses necromancy for what little good it can do. the fact is, magic is not intrinsically good or evil, its the person behind it, the intention.

the dominion, the altmer, have a large distaste and xenophobic view on daedra, yet the sorcerer and its daedric summoning is barred from nothing.

the fact of the matter is, when you take all these facts into account, there is no way they will not add necromancy in the future. however what it will be added as, a class or worldskill, is not clear.

i say it needs to be a class in of itself, something of a hybrid of a healer and a sorcerer, being the healing tree called corruption, the summoning tree called necromancy, and the third tree called death magic. this will allow for a varity of character types, such as a death knight, necromancer, or just a evil healer.

if you make it a world skill or guild skill, then it gives to much power to us sorcerers, allowing us far far to many summons, and while i would personally like that, it would break the balance.

I can see your point about the summoning with Sorcerers, however, from my perspective, Sorcerers summons are... And this is MY opinion... but, less than dirt. They serve no meaning if bosses target you, and your summons do absolutely no damage. Of course, I've not played a sorcerer to the extent of my Templar, but when I can take down every enemy I encounter in 2-3 skills, opposed to a Sorcerers summons doing nothing, well, the choice is clear as day.

Also, with a Necromancy skill-line, I imagine in my head anyways, the summons would be for a limited time only. You wouldn't be able to summon a Flesh/any other Atranoch for anymore than 30 seconds. That, or the summons could serve more as meat shields than anything else.

I'm not saying they wouldn't "Need" to balance a Necromany skill-line, they definitely would, but I can't imagine a bunch of "TES" fans, and just mmorpg players in general making an entirely new character just for the use of 5 new skills. Of course, Guild Wars 2 has shown otherwise, but also had more than 5 skills to show off in each of their classes. I believe the Necromancy skill-line should be "hidden", and ONLY found through books/lore. As I said before, I don't mind penalties, but if everyone and their dog had access to the skill-line at the start, it would be.... Well, overly used I'm sure. Not that through the power of the internet you can't find such hidden means of obtaining such skill-lines, but it would definitely be interesting to begin with.

Being not the biggest fan of TES, I still would disapprove of making a separate class for pretty much any skill-line. It's kind of bad as is, and has drawn quite a few players away from TESO.

Lord_Hev

There is nothing lore-breaking about necromancy.

Just because one dabbles in necromancy, does not inherently make them evil. It does not make them a member of the Worm Cult. There ARE Mages Guild members whom are given special permission to use it.[player fits this bill]


And, I stongly believe it should be a completely dedicated class.[combined with dedicated Daedric Summoning as well.] This accomplishes many things. First off, it prevents everyone from using it[you HAVE to make this your decision in character creation and then live with it.] This gives the actual skills dedicated attention in balancing. And you can have three "skills"

1.) Some kind of offensive magic tree.

2.) Necromancy

3.) Conjuration


Both necromancy and conjuration gives you the option to choose and invest into a variety of undead and daedra. BUT, you can only have two on your skill-bar max. So only two undead, or two daedra, or one undead and one daedra. Furthermore, they have a duration. So no toggle nonsense. Summons need to be tactical, expensive, and a threat to enemies. This can only be balanced if they are temporary, and you cannot just enter any battle with them up easy-peasy. They need to be like the previous TES games.

Lord_Hev

Humor wrote: »

I believe the Necromancy skill-line should be "hidden", and ONLY found through books/lore. As I said before, I don't mind penalties, but if everyone and their dog had access to the skill-line at the start, it would be.... Well, overly used I'm sure. Not that through the power of the internet you can't find such hidden means of obtaining such skill-lines, but it would definitely be interesting to begin with.

Hmmm... this could work too.

amm7sb14_ESO

I am in favor of Necromancy, Necromancy is my favorite thing to play in fantasy games, and one of my biggest disappointments in ESO is that I can only summon daedra.

Dimachaerus

Necromancers are usually evil people, and some societies like the imperials (I believe) frown upon necromancy, I don't think we'll see 1000's of players running around raising the dead.

Noth

Dimachaerus wrote: »

Necromancers are usually evil people, and some societies like the imperials (I believe) frown upon necromancy, I don't think we'll see 1000's of players running around raising the dead.

Dunmer have it banned, Mages Guild likley has it banned as Vanus Galerion who originally led the war against necromancy is still alive and in charge of the mages guild. Nords probably frown on it as well as it disturbes their ancestors. Infact in this game pretty much every single faction and race despises Necromancy. It is despised far more than anything else (hell there is a vampire councilor [known to everyone] in the DC)

Dimachaerus

Noth wrote: »

Dimachaerus wrote: »

Necromancers are usually evil people, and some societies like the imperials (I believe) frown upon necromancy, I don't think we'll see 1000's of players running around raising the dead.

Dunmer have it banned, Mages Guild likley has it banned as Vanus Galerion who originally led the war against necromancy is still alive and in charge of the mages guild. Nords probably frown on it as well as it disturbes their ancestors. Infact in this game pretty much every single faction and race despises Necromancy. It is despised far more than anything else (hell there is a vampire councilor [known to everyone] in the DC)

Well there you go, thanks for the info!

I just kinda knew this wouldn't be lore friendly, but I don't know all that much about the world / lore, yet.

Lord_Hev

Noth wrote: »

Dimachaerus wrote: »

Necromancers are usually evil people, and some societies like the imperials (I believe) frown upon necromancy, I don't think we'll see 1000's of players running around raising the dead.

Dunmer have it banned, Mages Guild likley has it banned as Vanus Galerion who originally led the war against necromancy is still alive and in charge of the mages guild. Nords probably frown on it as well as it disturbes their ancestors. Infact in this game pretty much every single faction and race despises Necromancy. It is despised far more than anything else (hell there is a vampire councilor [known to everyone] in the DC)

Dunmer's entire religion is based on necromancy. It's only frowned upon when used against the dead whom are unwilling, or when practiced by the "lesser" races[they whom are not Dunmer.]

Mages Guild permits certain wizards permission to study Necromancy, if they prove to be benevolent in their intentions

Ancient Nords were literally the paradigm of Necromantic rituals. The Dragon Cult used it to serve Alduin for eternity.



If necromancy is lore-breaking, than by that Black & White logic, Sorcerer should be removed from the game because the Altmer are the most antagonistic to any form of Daedric worship or utilization.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

trapping souls is, at its core, pure necromancy. just felt i should add that. Vanus even has a book ingame discussing the regulation and commonization of the practice.

Dimachaerus

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Noth wrote: »

Dimachaerus wrote: »

Necromancers are usually evil people, and some societies like the imperials (I believe) frown upon necromancy, I don't think we'll see 1000's of players running around raising the dead.

Dunmer have it banned, Mages Guild likley has it banned as Vanus Galerion who originally led the war against necromancy is still alive and in charge of the mages guild. Nords probably frown on it as well as it disturbes their ancestors. Infact in this game pretty much every single faction and race despises Necromancy. It is despised far more than anything else (hell there is a vampire councilor [known to everyone] in the DC)

Dunmer's entire religion is based on necromancy. It's only frowned upon when used against the dead whom are unwilling, or when practiced by the "lesser" races[they whom are not Dunmer.]

Mages Guild permits certain wizards permission to study Necromancy, if they prove to be benevolent in their intentions

Ancient Nords were literally the paradigm of Necromantic rituals. The Dragon Cult used it to serve Alduin for eternity.



If necromancy is lore-breaking, than by that Black & White logic, Sorcerer should be removed from the game because the Altmer are the most antagonistic to any form of Daedric worship or utilization.

Obviously necromancy in itself is not lore breaking, we know it exists.
But you don't see that many of them, so having 1000's of players run around raising the dead would that fit in?

That is the question

bloodenragedb14_ESO

yet there are 1000s of players running around with clanfear,scamps,winged twilights, and the main story of the game is a daedric invasion. there are alot of vampires running around in stage 4 starvation. there are alot of werewolves running around as well, changing form in public.

there are even quests that showcase good morality uses of necromancy, such as in teh alikr there is a man and dog who enchanted their bones to rise after death, so they could wonder the desert side by side for eternity. there is a lich in valenwood that serves Azura.
There are a coven of vampires in rivinspire that do not prey, they ask for blood. and high king emeric knows they are vampires, even calls the patriarch his friend and mentor.
There are probably many more that i havent found yet, or cant recall.

the game is supposed to be play your way, if you wanna use necromancy, you should be able to, like any of the previous installments, its not lore-breaking, its staying true to the series.

Lynx7386

For now I would try to go with the sorceror summoning and undaunted skill lines. Undaunted gives you things like blood altar, necrotic orb, and bone armor. The sorceror pets arent undead, but they're as close as you're likely to get.

rager82b14_ESO

I'm the type of person who says Lore can be changed, and made up as it goes if it adds fun game play elements. So ya, Necromancer>Lore. I mean they did just fine with vampires

Selstad

It would be very good if they actually made consequences of your decisions in this game. Such as per example taking hold on necromancy, you lose access to the Mages guild, but you get access to another guild (an underground sort of thing, like the Thieves guild). This way you'd have to choose carefully what company you wanted to tend to, be it necromancy or "regular" magie. And it wouldn't mess up the lore of the game either.

As we have a lot of different choices already in the game, it would just be another option and a good one as well. I like that there are ramifications in an MMO based on the actions you take. And you can change if you don't like what you have.

It is however a very young game still, and they will add, take away and change on numerous things. Lets hope they make the right decisions though

Dimachaerus

Selstad wrote: »

It would be very good if they actually made consequences of your decisions in this game. Such as per example taking hold on necromancy, you lose access to the Mages guild, but you get access to another guild (an underground sort of thing, like the Thieves guild). This way you'd have to choose carefully what company you wanted to tend to, be it necromancy or "regular" magie. And it wouldn't mess up the lore of the game either.

As we have a lot of different choices already in the game, it would just be another option and a good one as well. I like that there are ramifications in an MMO based on the actions you take. And you can change if you don't like what you have.

It is however a very young game still, and they will add, take away and change on numerous things. Lets hope they make the right decisions though

I like this.

Noth

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Noth wrote: »

Dimachaerus wrote: »

Necromancers are usually evil people, and some societies like the imperials (I believe) frown upon necromancy, I don't think we'll see 1000's of players running around raising the dead.

Dunmer have it banned, Mages Guild likley has it banned as Vanus Galerion who originally led the war against necromancy is still alive and in charge of the mages guild. Nords probably frown on it as well as it disturbes their ancestors. Infact in this game pretty much every single faction and race despises Necromancy. It is despised far more than anything else (hell there is a vampire councilor [known to everyone] in the DC)

Dunmer's entire religion is based on necromancy. It's only frowned upon when used against the dead whom are unwilling, or when practiced by the "lesser" races[they whom are not Dunmer.]

Mages Guild permits certain wizards permission to study Necromancy, if they prove to be benevolent in their intentions

Ancient Nords were literally the paradigm of Necromantic rituals. The Dragon Cult used it to serve Alduin for eternity.

If necromancy is lore-breaking, than by that Black & White logic, Sorcerer should be removed from the game because the Altmer are the most antagonistic to any form of Daedric worship or utilization.

No, dunmer's entire religion is based on Mysticism, not necromancy. The only group of Dunmer that actually use necromancy openly is the Telvanni and they are so reclusive and seclusive that most probably don't know they do.

You do know that Vanus hated necromancy so much and was so disgusted by it that he went to war with his best friend to wipe it off the planet. I doubt he'd let any one study it.

You are right ancient nords did use it a lot. There is a keyword there 'ancient.' These are not ancient Nords serving Alduin. They are very different and look down heavily on Necromancy.

The entire issue with necromancy is that it is a perversion of Mysticism and essentially enslaves ancestors. Oh it is also the tool of one of the biggest villains in TES history. Compared to deadra summoning, summoning a deadra isn't disturbing the dead and messing with ancestors.

You seem to be stuck on one idea of lore and ignore some simple things (Such as Vanus still being around, the fact that nords are no longer ancient Nords, and that this doesn't take place during teh time of the other elder scrolls.)

Lord_Hev

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

yet there are 1000s of players running around with clanfear,scamps,winged twilights, and the main story of the game is a daedric invasion. there are alot of vampires running around in stage 4 starvation. there are alot of werewolves running around as well, changing form in public.

there are even quests that showcase good morality uses of necromancy, such as in teh alikr there is a man and dog who enchanted their bones to rise after death, so they could wonder the desert side by side for eternity. there is a lich in valenwood that serves Azura.
There are a coven of vampires in rivinspire that do not prey, they ask for blood. and high king emeric knows they are vampires, even calls the patriarch his friend and mentor.
There are probably many more that i havent found yet, or cant recall.

the game is supposed to be play your way, if you wanna use necromancy, you should be able to, like any of the previous installments, its not lore-breaking, its staying true to the series.

Do you remember where that Lich whom serves Azura is? I'm on AD, and I fear I may have missed it. I'm already in Malabal tor.

Oh and, well said, well said! This and 1000x more!

Noth wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Noth wrote: »

Dimachaerus wrote: »

Necromancers are usually evil people, and some societies like the imperials (I believe) frown upon necromancy, I don't think we'll see 1000's of players running around raising the dead.

Dunmer have it banned, Mages Guild likley has it banned as Vanus Galerion who originally led the war against necromancy is still alive and in charge of the mages guild. Nords probably frown on it as well as it disturbes their ancestors. Infact in this game pretty much every single faction and race despises Necromancy. It is despised far more than anything else (hell there is a vampire councilor [known to everyone] in the DC)

Dunmer's entire religion is based on necromancy. It's only frowned upon when used against the dead whom are unwilling, or when practiced by the "lesser" races[they whom are not Dunmer.]

Mages Guild permits certain wizards permission to study Necromancy, if they prove to be benevolent in their intentions

Ancient Nords were literally the paradigm of Necromantic rituals. The Dragon Cult used it to serve Alduin for eternity.

If necromancy is lore-breaking, than by that Black & White logic, Sorcerer should be removed from the game because the Altmer are the most antagonistic to any form of Daedric worship or utilization.

No, dunmer's entire religion is based on Mysticism, not necromancy. The only group of Dunmer that actually use necromancy openly is the Telvanni and they are so reclusive and seclusive that most probably don't know they do.

You do know that Vanus hated necromancy so much and was so disgusted by it that he went to war with his best friend to wipe it off the planet. I doubt he'd let any one study it.

You are right ancient nords did use it a lot. There is a keyword there 'ancient.' These are not ancient Nords serving Alduin. They are very different and look down heavily on Necromancy.

The entire issue with necromancy is that it is a perversion of Mysticism and essentially enslaves ancestors. Oh it is also the tool of one of the biggest villains in TES history. Compared to deadra summoning, summoning a deadra isn't disturbing the dead and messing with ancestors.

You seem to be stuck on one idea of lore and ignore some simple things (Such as Vanus still being around, the fact that nords are no longer ancient Nords, and that this doesn't take place during teh time of the other elder scrolls.)

They're entire religion is focused around their ancestors willingly bounding themselves in spirit and even skin and bones, to protect their relatives. That is necromancy no matter how you cut it.

The schools are pedantic to start with, created by none other than White-Knight Galerion. Mysticism and Necromancy are so intertwined, they can easily be the same. Conjuration also falls into this.


I'm not ignoring simple things. It's people coming up with little pedantic black & white fallacious reasoning that Necromancy should not be a choice in a game about choice.

Noth

Lord_Hev wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

yet there are 1000s of players running around with clanfear,scamps,winged twilights, and the main story of the game is a daedric invasion. there are alot of vampires running around in stage 4 starvation. there are alot of werewolves running around as well, changing form in public.

there are even quests that showcase good morality uses of necromancy, such as in teh alikr there is a man and dog who enchanted their bones to rise after death, so they could wonder the desert side by side for eternity. there is a lich in valenwood that serves Azura.
There are a coven of vampires in rivinspire that do not prey, they ask for blood. and high king emeric knows they are vampires, even calls the patriarch his friend and mentor.
There are probably many more that i havent found yet, or cant recall.

the game is supposed to be play your way, if you wanna use necromancy, you should be able to, like any of the previous installments, its not lore-breaking, its staying true to the series.

Do you remember where that Lich whom serves Azura is? I'm on AD, and I fear I may have missed it. I'm already in Malabal tor.

Oh and, well said, well said! This and 1000x more!

Noth wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Noth wrote: »

Dimachaerus wrote: »

Necromancers are usually evil people, and some societies like the imperials (I believe) frown upon necromancy, I don't think we'll see 1000's of players running around raising the dead.

Dunmer have it banned, Mages Guild likley has it banned as Vanus Galerion who originally led the war against necromancy is still alive and in charge of the mages guild. Nords probably frown on it as well as it disturbes their ancestors. Infact in this game pretty much every single faction and race despises Necromancy. It is despised far more than anything else (hell there is a vampire councilor [known to everyone] in the DC)

Dunmer's entire religion is based on necromancy. It's only frowned upon when used against the dead whom are unwilling, or when practiced by the "lesser" races[they whom are not Dunmer.]

Mages Guild permits certain wizards permission to study Necromancy, if they prove to be benevolent in their intentions

Ancient Nords were literally the paradigm of Necromantic rituals. The Dragon Cult used it to serve Alduin for eternity.

If necromancy is lore-breaking, than by that Black & White logic, Sorcerer should be removed from the game because the Altmer are the most antagonistic to any form of Daedric worship or utilization.

No, dunmer's entire religion is based on Mysticism, not necromancy. The only group of Dunmer that actually use necromancy openly is the Telvanni and they are so reclusive and seclusive that most probably don't know they do.

You do know that Vanus hated necromancy so much and was so disgusted by it that he went to war with his best friend to wipe it off the planet. I doubt he'd let any one study it.

You are right ancient nords did use it a lot. There is a keyword there 'ancient.' These are not ancient Nords serving Alduin. They are very different and look down heavily on Necromancy.

The entire issue with necromancy is that it is a perversion of Mysticism and essentially enslaves ancestors. Oh it is also the tool of one of the biggest villains in TES history. Compared to deadra summoning, summoning a deadra isn't disturbing the dead and messing with ancestors.

You seem to be stuck on one idea of lore and ignore some simple things (Such as Vanus still being around, the fact that nords are no longer ancient Nords, and that this doesn't take place during teh time of the other elder scrolls.)

They're entire religion is focused around their ancestors willingly bounding themselves in spirit and even skin and bones, to protect their relatives. That is necromancy no matter how you cut it.

The schools are pedantic to start with, created by none other than White-Knight Galerion. Mysticism and Necromancy are so intertwined, they can easily be the same. Conjuration also falls into this.


I'm not ignoring simple things. It's people coming up with little pedantic black & white fallacious reasoning that Necromancy should not be a choice in a game about choice.

There is a huge difference in the spirit willingly binding itself through ancestor worship and it being forced to. It doesn't matter what you think. It matters what the lore says. Necromancy is a perversion of Mysticism. Is outlawed by the Dunmer, banned by the mages guild, despised by the Altmer, actually despised by pretty much all races. This is all seen in game.

There are always exceptions to the rule of course, but it makes the lore absolutely pointless if everyone can be the exception.

Lord_Hev

Noth wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

yet there are 1000s of players running around with clanfear,scamps,winged twilights, and the main story of the game is a daedric invasion. there are alot of vampires running around in stage 4 starvation. there are alot of werewolves running around as well, changing form in public.

there are even quests that showcase good morality uses of necromancy, such as in teh alikr there is a man and dog who enchanted their bones to rise after death, so they could wonder the desert side by side for eternity. there is a lich in valenwood that serves Azura.
There are a coven of vampires in rivinspire that do not prey, they ask for blood. and high king emeric knows they are vampires, even calls the patriarch his friend and mentor.
There are probably many more that i havent found yet, or cant recall.

the game is supposed to be play your way, if you wanna use necromancy, you should be able to, like any of the previous installments, its not lore-breaking, its staying true to the series.

Do you remember where that Lich whom serves Azura is? I'm on AD, and I fear I may have missed it. I'm already in Malabal tor.

Oh and, well said, well said! This and 1000x more!

Noth wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Noth wrote: »

Dimachaerus wrote: »

Necromancers are usually evil people, and some societies like the imperials (I believe) frown upon necromancy, I don't think we'll see 1000's of players running around raising the dead.

Dunmer have it banned, Mages Guild likley has it banned as Vanus Galerion who originally led the war against necromancy is still alive and in charge of the mages guild. Nords probably frown on it as well as it disturbes their ancestors. Infact in this game pretty much every single faction and race despises Necromancy. It is despised far more than anything else (hell there is a vampire councilor [known to everyone] in the DC)

Dunmer's entire religion is based on necromancy. It's only frowned upon when used against the dead whom are unwilling, or when practiced by the "lesser" races[they whom are not Dunmer.]

Mages Guild permits certain wizards permission to study Necromancy, if they prove to be benevolent in their intentions

Ancient Nords were literally the paradigm of Necromantic rituals. The Dragon Cult used it to serve Alduin for eternity.

If necromancy is lore-breaking, than by that Black & White logic, Sorcerer should be removed from the game because the Altmer are the most antagonistic to any form of Daedric worship or utilization.

No, dunmer's entire religion is based on Mysticism, not necromancy. The only group of Dunmer that actually use necromancy openly is the Telvanni and they are so reclusive and seclusive that most probably don't know they do.

You do know that Vanus hated necromancy so much and was so disgusted by it that he went to war with his best friend to wipe it off the planet. I doubt he'd let any one study it.

You are right ancient nords did use it a lot. There is a keyword there 'ancient.' These are not ancient Nords serving Alduin. They are very different and look down heavily on Necromancy.

The entire issue with necromancy is that it is a perversion of Mysticism and essentially enslaves ancestors. Oh it is also the tool of one of the biggest villains in TES history. Compared to deadra summoning, summoning a deadra isn't disturbing the dead and messing with ancestors.

You seem to be stuck on one idea of lore and ignore some simple things (Such as Vanus still being around, the fact that nords are no longer ancient Nords, and that this doesn't take place during teh time of the other elder scrolls.)

They're entire religion is focused around their ancestors willingly bounding themselves in spirit and even skin and bones, to protect their relatives. That is necromancy no matter how you cut it.

The schools are pedantic to start with, created by none other than White-Knight Galerion. Mysticism and Necromancy are so intertwined, they can easily be the same. Conjuration also falls into this.


I'm not ignoring simple things. It's people coming up with little pedantic black & white fallacious reasoning that Necromancy should not be a choice in a game about choice.

There is a huge difference in the spirit willingly binding itself through ancestor worship and it being forced to. It doesn't matter what you think. It matters what the lore says. Necromancy is a perversion of Mysticism. Is outlawed by the Dunmer, banned by the mages guild, despised by the Altmer, actually despised by pretty much all races. This is all seen in game.

There are always exceptions to the rule of course, but it makes the lore absolutely pointless if everyone can be the exception.

Necromancy is necromancy. Intention means nothing. It is the art of invoking the powers of the undead and the communication with the dead. The Dunmer religion is necromantic. Necromancy is not inherently evil. Just because necromancy is an abhoration, does not make it evil.


Stop with the lore cry here, seriously. There are things already in-game that actually need attention. *ahem* "Dragonknights?" Seriously? Or Aldmeri Dominion members all summoning daedra in cities.

Stop the Lore cry. It is a fallacy.

Coggage

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I love that you have no doubt a necromancy skill line will open up. Those of us who have paid attention to the lore have some serious doubts that it will make it in.

If it does, it needs to carry some serious penalties.

I couldn't care less about lore, but I'm good with any penalties they might impose for taking up a Necromancy skill line.

Humor

I didn't think this thread would turn into a Lore Argument, but hey, at least I'm learning through entertaining means now.