Your "bolster" system

Khyras

or whatever you call it is terrible.Every character i go in pvp with,no matter what armor or attribute distribution it has,has pretty much same stats when he enters Cyrodiil.It took lvl 49 NB about 2-3 seconds to kill my lvl 15 DK in full heavy armor and with max health attribute points.Skills that give increased armor for some reason dont work in pvp aswell.Either make better bolster system instead of this atrocity you have or put those players in separate tiers.And no,i dont want to grind pve to be able to compete in pvp on even footing,that is just bad game design.

Ganksalot

I belive your thinking is flawed. Why on earth would you think you should be able to go toe to toe with someone who is lvl49 when you are lvl15?

eiswar

i dont understand him 2 ......

Imperator_Clydus

My main issue with bolstering is really the same issue SWTOR had at launch with wzs lacking brackets. Veteran Rank players (50+) have a significant advantage over non-VR (10-49). A competent VR player can take on three or more players if they know what they are doing.

Since ZOS also butchered the bounty repeatable, progression in AvA is now extinct. PvPers are forced to PvE just to catch up in levels if they want to PvP. How does this make any sense at all? Progression in AvA must be repaired and the gap between lowbies and VR players should be lessened.

Otherwise, there really isn't a point to participate in AvA unless you are at least VR1, of which you have to PvE to achieve. I believe ZOS needs to heavily consider their recent changes to the game as they are contradicting their philosophy of letting players choose how they play the game.

There is no choice with this current setup.

Vhale

On the other hand, I had a VR1 player pop out and attack a level 16 I was randomly with in a dungeon going for a shard. I would guess they went for him because he was 16 and I was mid 30s. However, I was being healy at the time, the 16 was a good player, he blocked attacks and I repaired the damage. The VR tried switching targets but he had already blown his reserves and we killed him.

Random level 16 says: "What was that?"



"That my friend... was a lvl 51 enemy player. You'll see those out here."

To me, that is what bolstering is meant to do. It doesn't let you avoid pve, but it does help even the scales on what would have been a completely lopsided battle without it.

And let's not forget you had to add the word "competent" in there. The VR players that spent time in beta, scare me. The VR players that looked up AE grinding and blew to 50 without picking up any skill points? Not so much.

Kingslayer

If they made it even against Vr players pvp players just wouldnt bother levelling really, because what would be the point?.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Kingslayer wrote: »

If they made it even against Vr players pvp players just wouldnt bother levelling really, because what would be the point?.

I guess the point would be they could pvp and have a fighting chance while leveling at the snails pace pvp is now set up to level you at.

Kingslayer

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

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Kingslayer wrote: »

If they made it even against Vr players pvp players just wouldnt bother levelling really, because what would be the point?.

I guess the point would be they could pvp and have a fighting chance while leveling at the snails pace pvp is now set up to level you at.

It is designed fine, it is meant to give people levelling a fighting chance but its not going to let you beat a vr player 1 v 1. Thats just not right you can't expect to jump into cyrodiil at level 10 and beat a person whose spent a lot of time levelling right off the bat. It might need some adjusting slightly maybe but really this is the way it should be. AvA is large scale combat and a group of lower levelled players have no issues when they are grouped.

The battle levelling aka is also meant to give the low level players against each other an even chance everyone below 50 receives exactly the same stats. The way they have done this is perfect. Lets look at Another bolster in SWTOR i assume thats where the term bolster came from here. It bolsters based on item rating etc and you know how that worked out, it sucked different items were giving OP stats and still do, and it renders Pvp gear meaningless.

Alandauron

Khyras wrote: »

or whatever you call it is terrible.Every character i go in pvp with,no matter what armor or attribute distribution it has,has pretty much same stats when he enters Cyrodiil.It took lvl 49 NB about 2-3 seconds to kill my lvl 15 DK in full heavy armor and with max health attribute points.Skills that give increased armor for some reason dont work in pvp aswell.Either make better bolster system instead of this atrocity you have or put those players in separate tiers.And no,i dont want to grind pve to be able to compete in pvp on even footing,that is just bad game design.

There are issues with the scaling, but this isn't it. You should NOT be able to beat a VR player as a sub-level unless they are just terrible, and you are at least fairly competent.

I beat several VR players while sub-level in the PTS, but this was a low pop Cyrodil and a fight wouldn't automatically bring 20 other players. The nature of this beast is different and you shouldn't hope to survive against a VR.

The issue with scaling isn't that you can't compete against VR, it's that every sub-level in Cyrodil is exactly the same. You're not a magicka heavy sorc, you're not a stamina heavy NB, you're a grunt with the same armor, health, stamina, magicka as every other grunt. I would love to see actual scaling, but not see sub-levels be equal to VRs, that's just a silly concept.

nez

on other hand, why then i bothered to lvl at all? just take out lvl's and make attributes static, leave only Cyrodiil and thats what you get per ur wish, guy from first post. sounds kinda boring, and yes, lvl 49 taking out 15lvl 2-3 seems just OK to me.

RivenEsq

Additional armor skills work in Cyrodiil after you hit VR1 (50), by the way. Spell Resist adding abilities work all the way through the levels, however. Dunno if it is a bug or intended, but you do realize that anyone below vr1 has the EXACT SAME STATS meaning that NB was handicapped as much as you were. Level, armor, weapons, defense buffs, etc. do not matter until you are post 50. They killed you in 2-3 shots probably because you are an inexperienced player and they crit you from behind while in stealth (does massive damage). I don't know why people constantly feel like VR players are somehow OP and that they didn't earn their gear, skills, levels, etc. If you really want to kill pvp in this game, go right ahead and keep asking for VR players to be made weaker. That's totally a solution for you being garbage at pvp. The entitlement here knows no bounds.

Also, PvE isn't really a grind. That's there if you want it, but there are normal quests and dungeons and you don't have to repeat anything to hit 50. That's the very definition of not having to grind, which would be doing the same thing over and over to progress. I don't know a single game off the top of my head where leveling in PvP was ever "viable" in the sense that it was as efficient as PvE. The bolster system allows players to compete in PvP, it isn't going to hand you a free win. Sure, it could use a bit of work, but people who are stronger than you are that way because they earned it. Spend less time complaining and go learn how to play your class.

Khyras

Issue is not just vr vs notvr.I was in pvp last night and went 1vs1 against lvl14 player with my now lvl 29 dk.His damage was pathetic,he could not even get me to under 95% HP.When i go against lvl 40+ players tho i get killed almost instantly,they pretty much one shot me and im full heavy armor +snb.There is something basically wrong with that,their system simply is not working.feels like higher levels are doing extra high damage just for being higher level,like a monsters with crushing blow pve mechanic in some MMOs.My stats were pretty much same when i entered pvp for the first time at lvl 10,around 1700 hp,around 1000 spell resist,750 armor without shield, as they are now,that is just pathetic scaling system.MMORPG is about getting stronger as you level up,they appear to have fixed stat values that highly favor higher level players,which is BS.No one enjoys getting farmed.

Khyras

@ RivenVII he was not in stealth when i engaged,he did teleport strike+stun,i responded with CC break and i got killed while i was still in CC break animation.Literally,entire fight took about 2-3 sec between the time he did teleport strike and my death.This not my first MMORPG,far from it, and i know s..t when i see it.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Kingslayer wrote: »

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vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Kingslayer wrote: »

If they made it even against Vr players pvp players just wouldnt bother levelling really, because what would be the point?.

I guess the point would be they could pvp and have a fighting chance while leveling at the snails pace pvp is now set up to level you at.

It is designed fine, it is meant to give people levelling a fighting chance but its not going to let you beat a vr player 1 v 1. Thats just not right you can't expect to jump into cyrodiil at level 10 and beat a person whose spent a lot of time levelling right off the bat. It might need some adjusting slightly maybe but really this is the way it should be. AvA is large scale combat and a group of lower levelled players have no issues when they are grouped.

The battle levelling aka is also meant to give the low level players against each other an even chance everyone below 50 receives exactly the same stats. The way they have done this is perfect. Lets look at Another bolster in SWTOR i assume thats where the term bolster came from here. It bolsters based on item rating etc and you know how that worked out, it sucked different items were giving OP stats and still do, and it renders Pvp gear meaningless.

I can certainly agree with that. Perhaps i am just a little over senstative, it seems like so many of these post people are just happy to roll whoever. And while i do think the higher levels should have an easier time because of the time and effort, the lower levels shouldnt be loosing so fast they feel useless.

Where ever that middle ground is.

Alandauron

Levels 10-49 all have the same basic stats guys.

Only difference comes in with the abilities you have unlocked and the weapon damage. So yes you get tougher the higher your level is, as it should be. If you think someone that first learns how to fight should rival someone that has been fighting for years(which is essentially what the VR ranks represent) then you are out of your mind. Get to VR rank and show them how to PvP, or just whine because someone at a higher level that has invested more time into a game can beat you every time...the entitlement of people today is ridiculous.

Khyras

"the entitlement of people today is ridiculous." Entitlement? Its turkey shoot out there,completely unfair towards low level pvp players.Where is competition?
Some people would not say "sh.t" even if they had mouth full of it.Feels like going against lvl 90 player with level 20 in wow or other MMOs.Why do you think separate pvp tiers exist these games.No reason whatsoever? I hear,for example,that armor jumps from 700 to 1000 when you level up to VR 1? Why? 1/3 increase in survivability? Total BS imo and i dont like it one bit,i dont care what fanbois say.

Kingslayer

Guys your discussion points are moot anyway come the start of the next campaign we are guaranteed to see veteran only campaigns i for one will love this. Don't have to see any whining trolls who complain because they get beaten by a higher level. I've played in a lower level group my guilds before we capped. And we still kicked ass and made emperor against the odds i might add. And this was before any of us hit

And @Khyras You have been misinformed You armor doesn't just jump like that Before you hit 50, Say you are in a PVE zone coldharbour your armor rating providing its heavy will trump 700 easy yet when you arrive in Cryodiil it will be 700 and that is the price of not being 50, I.e battle levelled up,

Now tell me scooby, How is a person with 1300 health at level 50 and a level 48 at 1200 got much difference in stats?. ME when i hit 50 my health was 1948, But thats was through me building my attributes right etc.

Vr level players will always have the advantage and you low level players can't expect to be on even terms. It may need tweaking but minimal at most.

Thechemicals

I have killed many players in pvp with a level 25-28 sorcerer. There are some players i simply cannot beat at the moment.

yelloweyedemon

Vet players with nice gear > lvl 10 chars with 5 hours total playtime. Bolster just gives you a fighting chance (which it does perfectly). But if you expect to win 1v1 fights and stuff on a low lvl character, you must be new to MMO's.

NTclaymore

I think its fair that you would lose to someone that has put alot more hours into their char. It works fine if you ask me, you could boost the exp gained for being in there so you could PvP to VRank. But other than that i dont see the problem

Marstar

Khyras wrote: »

@ RivenVII he was not in stealth when i engaged,he did teleport strike+stun,i responded with CC break and i got killed while i was still in CC break animation.Literally,entire fight took about 2-3 sec between the time he did teleport strike and my death.This not my first MMORPG,far from it, and i know s..t when i see it.

In which MMO you previously play did a Burst DPS class not kill some1 35 levels below them within 2-3

p.s. @49 he had the same HP, Magika, Stam, Armor and Weapon Damage as you.

Mothanos

Calling it now, If Zenimax doesnt act fast they will face a HUGE dropoff within 2 / 4 weeks from now.
People who bought this game for the pvp part just leave in droves.
No idea how many subs ESO has, but if they want to become SWTOR #2 be my guest.
Plenty of mmo's to play these days that offer the same fun.

Sad tough as this could realy be a fun way to break the repetitive questing.
But i think alot of damage is already done, looking around from Reddit to Massivly to MMORPG there are tons of people disliking what Zenimax is doing.
Past 3 weeks were horrible.....

if they want to hold on to their subs they better get working on making more then 1 way to level in this game or it will be a brutal disaster for Zenimax in their freshly launched mmo.

Still love this game, but i refuse to pay to keep questing without any other means to level up and break that monotone level design....
Wake up Zenimax before its to late.

Zaxq

Mothanos wrote: »

Calling it now, If Zenimax doesnt act fast they will face a HUGE dropoff within 2 / 4 weeks from now.
People who bought this game for the pvp part just leave in droves.
No idea how many subs ESO has, but if they want to become SWTOR #2 be my guest.
Plenty of mmo's to play these days that offer the same fun.

Wake up Zenimax before its to late.

If they bought it for pvp they wont be leaving in droves, as they'll understand that theres no issue at all.

Youre a drama queen and should think before you post drivel.

SwampRaider

Ganksalot wrote: »

I belive your thinking is flawed. Why on earth would you think you should be able to go toe to toe with someone who is lvl49 when you are lvl15?

Because, theoretically due to PROPER SCALING, a level 15 SHOULD be able to kil la level 49. Or else there is NO POINT for a lowbie to be in cyrodiil

Kingslayer

It is indeed possible for a low level to defeat a high level.

Its just most of the low levels especially in cyrodiil tend to be astronomically numb, Tonight Dc were hitting Bleakers repeatedly 30-40 guys mostly under 50 were their yet 2 siege weapons. Me and a few others show up so we open up with more weapons we get the door down, And those 30 - 40 stood outside dodging Oil to scared to do a charge. In the end 6 of us tried to rally them we ran in and got cornered on the stairs inside we died in the end.

All the meanwhile 30 odd guys are stood their popping siege shields as though the siege is still going on. When all was said and done EP just repaired their door because they managed to waste all outside. Ridiculous how slow some peeps can be though. Taking Iceball and firepot trebs for the door attack.

@Mothanos‌ Dude if you had said PVE was the issue then i would agree theirs been a crap load of bugs. But Pvp? Thats the most solid part about this game. Get a grip.

Kingslayer

SwampRaider wrote: »

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Ganksalot wrote: »

I belive your thinking is flawed. Why on earth would you think you should be able to go toe to toe with someone who is lvl49 when you are lvl15?

Because, theoretically due to PROPER SCALING, a level 15 SHOULD be able to kil la level 49. Or else there is NO POINT for a lowbie to be in cyrodiil

Level 49? Well ya he could. Provided the level 15 is a good player he has a more then fair chance. The level 49 hasn't gone past the vr barrier as of yet.

Mothanos

Zaxq wrote: »

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Mothanos wrote: »

Calling it now, If Zenimax doesnt act fast they will face a HUGE dropoff within 2 / 4 weeks from now.
People who bought this game for the pvp part just leave in droves.
No idea how many subs ESO has, but if they want to become SWTOR #2 be my guest.
Plenty of mmo's to play these days that offer the same fun.

Wake up Zenimax before its to late.

If they bought it for pvp they wont be leaving in droves, as they'll understand that theres no issue at all.

Youre a drama queen and should think before you post drivel.

Yeah cause we should all be singing songs and praise the game on these forums without expresing our concerns and flaws that makes playing this mmo almost tedious and in a pay to play mmo no less.

Do i need to remind you that from the 50 mmo's that launched past decade only a handfull or less remaind sub based ?

Do you think that its fair that they took away the only means of leveling trough AvA 3 days after early acces ?

You think its fun that 8 V10 using their synergy's blow up 30/40 people who are around level 50 ?

You think its fun that if you make a raid group half of them crash due to the infamous crash group bug ?

We are nearing our 1st month post release, many people judge a sub based mmo and make up their mind fo remain subbed or move on within 1 to 3 months.
Most mmo's have a 30% dropoff these days.

But you can keep your head in the sand and say there is nothing wrong with the game m8.
Keep saying it often enough and it goes pay to enjoy before you know it.

People make valid post and concerns and Zenimax needs to be on the ball to make improvements before the free month is over so they can hold on to those subs instead of letting them walk away due to all the weird vieuws Zenimax has in this game.

Nijjion

The armor bug was reported back 3 betas before launch (Jan/Feb time)... I'm a bit disappointed that it never got fixed.

You have a straight armor of 700 (iirc) while being naked/wearing light/med/heavy... use a skill that gives 1000 armor... still stay on 700. Stupidly broken when magic resistance skills work so it is of course a bug.

RivenEsq

As a vr5, I have gotten straight up one shot in this game. You aren't a special snowflake and, surprise, an assassin class can do that.

There is nothing wrong with the bolster system if your crowning example is you getting killed by a nightblade who has better passives than you, or did you forget about that? There is a lot of hidden power outside of stats alone.

EDIT: Oh yeah, still entitlement.

Khyras

"EDIT: Oh yeah, still entitlement. " I dont know when entitlement became something bad,must have missed that memo.I am entitled to raise issues that bother me because i bought the game and expect best possible quality from publisher like this,especially with sub model payment.I will continue to do so and i dont care what people like you think about that and, in truth, i find people who think that entitlement is something bad to be laughable and pathetic conformists.
If you got one shot as SnB,full heavy armor,max health character,then i think we have balance issue not just poor bolster system issue.
Or maybe you just dont know how to play and prefer spending time on forums trying to put down players who are trying to help to make this game as good as it can be and,honestly, failing miserably even at that.

RivenEsq

You just seem so completely bitter because a guy outplayed you. You clearly didn't stun break fast enough, didn't block, didn't avoid his execute. All of these things are clear facts to me. The game is at the best it can be where a level 16 is less useful than a level 49, even with a bolster system. It's supposed to assist you in being able to play PvP, not make you an incredibly stat ridden beast that can juggernaut through anything. Their bolster system doesn't take your armor or anything else stat-wise into account other than your passives, which you had very few of and the NB had a whole lot of, with their main weapon and skill lines most likely being at or close to 50 at level 49. I told you earlier that passives are hidden power that you don't see on the character sheet, but you don't seem to understand that. You would rather have an entire system over hauled because you got "pwnd" by someone playing an ASSASSIN class. Big surprise there.

So yeah, it is entitlement, and not the good kind, when you demand that these sort of things be entirely reworked based off a singular occurrence with poor objectivity and evidence. However, I'd agree with you to an extent that the system could be changed and the level 49 nightblade should have been even stronger than you because of how close they are to the level cap. When I was level 49, I know that I had less stats when in Cyrodiil than I actually did on my character, both health and magicka.

The only thing I will concede to you is that armor buff abilities should work pre-VR and that the system needs to do a better job of displaying when you are stunned because that is difficult to tell. Given that, you probably didn't stunbreak immediately as you said, because then that would indicate user error and not a problem with the system and we can't have that if you, the OP, are to be "right". Since the entire course of this thread consists of you angrily insisting you're some godlike PvP player who couldn't have been killed by an assassin character (WHO IS A HIGHER LEVEL THAN YOU) with nothing, but anecdotal evidence, I'm inclined to think that you hold yourself in a little too high of a regard.

So yes, you demanding a change based off of one incident where you lost is definitely entitlement. It isn't a game breaking instance, it isn't something that is needed for quality of life, it is simply something that you demand because your ego is too fragile to handle getting killed when you've spent approximately 3 hours in the game face rolling around the starter zone and first zone of your faction. You haven't learned anything about your class at this point in the game because you have next to no passives, synergies, or abilities. No level 16 is "tanky", especially when upscaled in PvP because your level 16 armor and stats are literally meaningless against level 50s. You clearly don't understand all of the mechanics of the game and you were against an opponent who clearly is more proficient at his class than you are at the moment. That's called a learning curve and it is something that is crucial to PvP being challenging. Now, I suggest you check your ego at the door, go learn to play the game, and think long and hard before you make another complaint post on the forums.