Why the 5 Slot bar has nothing to do with console

zgrssd

I regulary read complaints about the 5 Slot+Consumable+Ultimate bar. Most of the times people asume this has to do with the game being also desinged for the Console.

I think that is wrong. There is a totally different culptript for the limit:
The Action Combat System

In you MMO with more then 7 Slots of Quickbar you always have tab targetting/non-action combat. The reason is simple: Every number after 4 or 5 is incredibly hard to reach with your left hand while also keeping it on WASD. Unlike tab targetting games, you cannot simply unbind* the mouse in combat (hence this was put on a far off key). You need the mouse to look around and target. So nothing past those numbers would be reachable in combat.
In fact every MMO or game with Action Combat System will have a limit somewhat around what ESO has.

*most of the times you have to actively bind the mouse to change the view


In action combat systems you cannot take the left hand from it's position or the right from the mouse. If you do, you won't be able to react in time. That means the only buttons easily reachable are:
Everything on the Mouse (one good reason to upgrade past the 4 Button, 2 Axis Mouse)
WASD (movement), Q,E,R (often autorun), Tab, 1-5 (with 5 being already hard to reach), whatever is left of 1 (varries by keyboard layout), Space (often tied to jump), Shift (usually used to Sprint), Ctrl (hard to reach).
For non-comabt stuff there is a much wider array of Keys availible (even Ctrl and 5 are already at the border of combat reachable).

Other examples of very limited quickbars are:
DC Unvierse Online:

They choose a 7 Slot + Consumeable (Ultimates can be placed at leisure). Did not noticed that this might have been too many until now.
There is also a whole combo-system on the mouse buttons/light & heavy attacks (at least on par with what ESO does with Block, light/heavy attacks and Interrupt).

Neverwinter Online:

Is an adaption of the D&D 4.0 and 4.5 System. Right and Left Mousebuttons are you free/at will actions.
Q+E your resource limited/activations per combat limited abilities.
Tab enables the alternate combat mode (there is no way to lock a target in NWO)
2 Passives without need for any keybinds
1+2 are the ultimates. 3-5 are consumeables. 6 Is horse (already non-comabt area)

Wildstar:
wildstar-online.com/uk/news/wildstar_ui_20_preview_less_is_more.php/
Often considerd most direct competetion for ESO. Because it also uses action combat and it came out about the same time. They choose a hefty 8 + pet actions. Not sure how well that works out, but then again Engineer is worst case scenario. But I guess aiming withthe mouse makes everything past 5 unuseable in combat.

Counter Strike:
You got Knife, Pistol, Main Weapon, Grenades, Toolkit
I know that a First Person Shooter might be a slight break from the sequence, but it follows the same limits ESO has to follow.

TurkeyBurgers

L2 Shift + 1

L2 CTRL + 1

Babbyyyys first MMO?

SilentThunder

TurkeyBurgers wrote: »

L2 Shift + 1

L2 CTRL + 1

Babbyyyys first MMO?

Try hitting shift or ctrl and a number at the same time you are using keys to position your self. In the second or 2 while your standing there motionless I wll move behind you preventing any action you do with the shift or ctrl +1 from affecting me. GL with that one

Paithan

SilentThunder wrote: »

TurkeyBurgers wrote: »

L2 Shift + 1

L2 CTRL + 1

Babbyyyys first MMO?

Try hitting shift or ctrl and a number at the same time you are using keys to position your self. In the second or 2 while your standing there motionless I wll move behind you preventing any action you do with the shift or ctrl +1 from affecting me. GL with that one

because you lack the skill does not mean others do as well

TurkeyBurgers

SilentThunder wrote: »

TurkeyBurgers wrote: »

L2 Shift + 1

L2 CTRL + 1

Babbyyyys first MMO?

Try hitting shift or ctrl and a number at the same time you are using keys to position your self. In the second or 2 while your standing there motionless I wll move behind you preventing any action you do with the shift or ctrl +1 from affecting me. GL with that one

If your left pinky is not resting on the shift key then you are doing it wrong.

I suggest moving off the arrow keys and onto WASD. It will help you out a lot. I can tell you are probably a back peddling clicker already.

Kemono

What a funny examples you bring @zgrssd (btw im sure i saw a nickname like that before -are you related to one of those bloody bots?)

DC Unvierse Online

Platform(s):
PlayStation 3,
PlayStation 4,
PC

Interface obviously wasnt planed for consoles


Neverwinter Online
No its not an adaption of the D&D 4.0 and 4.5 System
Are you even familiar with that systems? This MMO is a DISGRACE to D&D brand and is clearly targeted at casuals that get fever on a single though of D&D builds posibilty

You know how proper action oriented MMO -(and by that i mean more action oriented then any other MMO you ever saw -if you dont belive me -name some MMO with 3D dungeon maps) look like?
Like this:
Dungeon&Dragons Online



And if you seriously claim that ESO game systems are not designed for consoles (when they obviously are, with planed release on them)
Please explain whats going on with those silly ONE active slot for items ,and circle selection bar. (esp when potions have timers on them anyway)
Its not designed for easy use on gamepads, right? RIGHT?

zgrssd

TurkeyBurgers wrote: »

L2 Shift + 1

L2 CTRL + 1

I think it is my 6th MMO. I forget to keep track of such minor details.
And in order to hit those keys I have to cramp my hand worse then I have to do hit 5-6. Clearly nothing usefull for combat can be there.

I can guess from here that you put those things on the additional buttons of your Mouse. And requiring more then a 3 Button, 2 Axis mouse would be a hard sell.

Kemono wrote: »

Neverwinter Online
No its not an adaption of the D&D 4.0 and 4.5 System
Are you even familiar with that systems? This MMO is a DISGRACE to D&D brand and is clearly targeted at casuals that get fever on a single though of D&D builds posibilty

It's only one of a dozen P&P systems I played in. And the similiarities between NWO and D&D 4 are glaringly obvious to you if you had played in it.
Everybody who played it notices that D&D 4 is more like a try to bring MMO concepts to P&P then a continuation of 3.5.
As usual they had to amp the possibilities to recover damage and limited powers upwards for a computer game, but that is self explaining too.

And I don't see how "must pre-plan your character till level 1 or reroll" would be in any way a suiteable design for a MMO. Or really any Computer game. Ever.
Adapting D&D 4 for this game was the best they could do for any D&D computer game.

Kemono wrote: »

And if you seriously claim that ESO game systems are not designed for consoles (when they obviously are, with planed release on them)

Okay, I might have said that ambigiously. I wanted to say that the 5 Bar was not "just because it is for console".
It does help for that one too. But the main issue is that any more then the keys we have now would be impossible to serve with the keys accsible for left hand+3 mousebuttons (if you even count cliking the wheel as button) + Scroll Wheel.
At least while also controlling the movement and targetting for your character.

And that is the input configraution they have to asume is on the average gamer PC. As a programmer I can tell you that asuming anything else about PC input capabilities would have been plain stupid.

Kemono wrote: »

Please explain whats going on with those silly ONE active slot for items ,and circle selection bar. (esp when potions have timers on them anyway)
Its not designed for easy use on gamepads, right? RIGHT?

Cross = WASD
One Stick = Targetting (waht we do with mouse)
Other Stick = Changing Drink Slot selection (what we do with mouse when holding Q as modifier key).

That one is perhaps slightly easier to do on the console. But other stuff will be harder to do.

You might be unable to do things that you can do in Computer (like moving without exiting menu or chatting), but that is why consoles get an extra set of megaservers. PC have the slightly better input concept and it would be an unfair disadvantage.

I was able to write a Console/PC cross game 3 years ago. Once you get the classes for input detection down, it becomes boring adaption of the Graphics system.
And Zenimax put actuall manpower in that design. I got those ideas after 60 second of thinking what they produced over and I think it is solid.


FPS. Action Combat MMO. Same limits of easily accesible keys and input devices.
Any more quickslots would be very hard to actually use during combat.
Comparing 5 Slots to any game with tab targetting is comparing racehorses with refrigerators.

Alpha_Protocol

People still use keyboards in MMO's for more than chat?