Why there has to be a change in crafting and trading

LazerusKI

Im posting it in here because i dont think that there will be a developer reading it in the crafting-section.

Currently we have only the guild-intern shop system.
The idea was not bad, but very soon after release we will notice WHY we need a public market or an auctioneer.
I heard that there will be a forum for trades, maybe thats enough to create a marketplace.

But here are some reasons why we need some kind of market ingame, and why there has to be a change in crafting:

First of all...Guilds are limited to maximum 500 people.
From these people lets say 60% are active, so 300 players left.
from these 300 players there are 30% who use the guild-store.
90 players left.
from these 90 players there are 10% who use the shop on a daily basis.
9 players left.
The rest spams the chat.
Why? no fees, easier trade offering etc.
With the current "market" its very hard to sell your stuff, its easier to just sell them to the NPC instead. there are only a few people who want to spam the chat with "WTS Iron Ore x 500, send offer" and thats not because they all sell it in the market...i have rarely seen materials in 4 of the trade guilds i was in, i think most of them will just sell it to the npc instead, it has no worth.

Another reason why we need a public auctioneer is inflation and deflation.
For example: A Daedric Motif was traded for 80k yesterday.
In a few days when more and more people can farm these (its easy but takes time), the prices will drop, because there are more and more of these items.
BUT the amount of gold rises too. Currently the only way to take gold out of the game is repair. You dont need to pay fees for trading through the chat. It will not take that long that a stack of iron Ingots will cost several thousand gold, because players will gather more and more money. DDO was a good example for this, no one pays with copper, silver or even gold anymore, all trades are purley platinum, and they enhanced all quest rewards for it...you wont get a few copper for a level 1 mission, you start with platinum right from the beginning.
As soon as more and more players will reach veterancy, where you rarely change your equipment, they will gather gold and materials pretty fast, just because there is nothing to take away the money, and then it will end the same. a huge gap between newbies and veterans, with prices beyond good and evil.

But now for the crafting:

Regular Crafting Materials are nearly useless.
No one needs a huge amount of Iron Ore, because there is simply no use for it.
Instead of wasting time on collecting the "low tier stuff" to start a new crafting-profession, you can simply wait and destroy higher grade equipment. For example:
I started Woodworking at Veterancy 6. It does not take long to level it up, i skipped the first 4 Tiers by just dismantling my found T6 stuff, each of them gave me like 50%.
And thats not even hard as a lowlevel character, because it does not matter what level the weapon has, because the price wont raise. A V6 weapon has a value of around 60g, not higher than a lvl20 weapon, with the difference that it gives a lot more experience for crafting.
And even later on, you wont need regular materials. Maybe a few to create one set of armor + weapon per tier, but as soon as you reach V10...there is no need anymore.
UNLESS you become the outfitter of your guild and craft them on request, then you will still need materials.

So, will players trade crafted armor and weapons instead of materials?
No. Most of the times you can find better stuff on simple enemies. The difference to crafted materials? They come with magic attributes most of the time.
The only thing that you could sell are set-items made on request.

The best thing of all the crafting materials to sell?
Runes and Rare-Materials (Daedric Hearts, Argentum, Palladium, Copper)
I thought about the alchemist plants too...but it seems that this professions is rarely chosen.

There has to be a passive that makes your crafted stuff stronger than everything you can find from mobs! For example: 25 gives access to the first passive, increases ALL numbers of your armor by 10%, so armor-value, enhancements, magics...
at 50 you can unlock the second part to increase it by another 10%. Just as an example. This is what would be needed to make these items usefull compared to other items.
Also it could be usefull to research set-boni by analysing dropped set-items.

if nothing changes...the economy of this game is doomed...

Silowyi

crafting love, yes please!

Anoteros

Auction House.
Remove 5 guilds.
Create loyalty and community from one guild while at the same time creating a world economy and value for items and crafting.

awhecknum1ub17_ESO

Yes agreed. The crafting in this game is pretty broken. Beta gave tons of suggestions but none seemed to be implemented. I know there is a certain amount of inertia with any game - but sigh - this one is losing me fast.

LazerusKI

awhecknum1ub17_ESO wrote: »

Yes agreed. The crafting in this game is pretty broken. Beta gave tons of suggestions but none seemed to be implemented. I know there is a certain amount of inertia with any game - but sigh - this one is losing me fast.

exactly. i love the idea of different styles, i would love to wear a set of T10 Daedric Daggers in the future...but there needs to be a reason to do it. Jsut to make the item yellow? i could find a Purple item from a boss to start with...easier and way cheaper.

(also: why dont whe have dwemer and glass motifs? >_< xD)

Arsenic_Touch

Making crafted stronger than drops is a terrible idea. The best gear should always be found, and supplemented by crafting or through questing. That is how you make a fulfilling chase. If they were going to make crafting the strongest gear, they would need to make it so it needs rare drops that only appear in specific dungeons, otherwise there is no chase and crafting becomes the end game, which is a huge design flaw.

I've made quite a few set items that were far better than anything that was dropping, I've made a few non set items that I upgraded with crafting materials and there were better than anything dropping.

The guild limit needs to be amended and they need to add a search function to the guild stores, but an overall auction house is a bad idea because it would just saturate the market. Condensed auction houses limit the supply because inventory space is finite so excess items get vendor'd for a quick buck which keeps the supply in check.

Repairs are not the only gold sink.
Some people buy the vendor gear.
Some people buy the soulgems/lockpicks and potions.
You have waypoint costs.
You have horses and the feeding system.
You also have the guild stores (i haven't had any issue selling 100 stacks of crafting materials on the guild store, people need to search for items at a specific price range to find them easier (hint: look at the vendor price of a stack and then search for that, I bet you'll find your crafting materials easier)

They do need to tweak the leveling of crafting professions though. You shouldn't be able to just power level it with higher level gear break downs. I'm finding that woodworking and clothing are leveling close to my current level, maybe over leveled a little bit compared to my current level but still in the general area. However provisioning needs a complete overhaul because you can max it out with like 2 points in the skill tree. Haven't explored much of the other professions.

Fenbrae

When they amde ESO, they went in with the idea to make it stand out from the other games. That's why they invented the guild stores.
Sure, auction houses create a better economy and a single guild will create more loyalty but in the end it will change from ESO to Generic MMO #26.
I for one like that they took a new idea and ran with it. I wasn't paying to play yet another clone MMO. I paid for a game that feels like a breath of fresh air and i will keep paying just for that.

WhiteQueen

From what I've heard, the best stuff (which may be set drops) can only be upgraded to legendary by a crafter. Add to that the fact that two items, one crafted and one looted, of the same level and quality; the crafted item will have a bit more damage or armour on it. Currently, there are only two traits a crafter can't learn, they're both not useful for PVP or PVE.

So, I think your crafting job is safe (relatively.) The only problem for crafters I see is that, with the relative abundance of skill points, almost everyone can max out a crafting line making a lot of dedicated crafters redundant.

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO

Trading is horrible.

This harebrained idea that only guilds should have stores is absurd. They'll have to come up with something better than what they have. They need a marketplace for each province. Chat is being spammed with goods.

Let people set up booths in a marketplace. Have bulletin boards that there that you can look at that give you a list of everything for sale.

Beats this bunk system they have now.

Maxium

Yeah, I agree. Being able to deconstruct a Dwarven axe at Blacksmithing level 1 is really really stupid. I'm an apprentice blacksmith, yet I know how to smelt down some of the best items in the game and save materials from it? Really?

If only people in the beta test suggested something like that.... oh wait... we did.....

Sadae

We don't want a global auction house or the market will become badly saturated. What we do need are WAY better search abilities! ie: Search by name. Even the current options are broken. ie: Search for Materials and it shows all kinds of other stuff such as gear.

Selling stacks of items is also a problem, especially due to the poor search abilities. Items are listed by cheapest price by default (you don't even have the option to sort by name), so if you sell stuff in stacks it will be so many pages down the list that nobody will find it, because all the stacks of 1 come before it (as well as all the other crap that you didn't request to search for) and that's all people see before they tire of clicking the "Next" page button.

zeuseason

98.4% of all factually stated statistics are 114.8% made up with no supporting facts.

Sadae

Maxium wrote: »

Yeah, I agree. Being able to deconstruct a Dwarven axe at Blacksmithing level 1 is really really stupid. I'm an apprentice blacksmith, yet I know how to smelt down some of the best items in the game and save materials from it? Really?

Deconstructing gear should follow the same rules as Creating it, and you should need the required skill level for it to do it.

ijacksparrowed

but dat math doe

LazerusKI

zeuseason wrote: »

98.4% of all factually stated statistics are 114.8% made up with no supporting facts.

the numbes i psoted above are all fictional, i never said that they are real.
but as i said, i was in 4 trading guilds now, where not even 50% were online at any given time. mostly around 100 from the 500.
and the shop? was empty. msot of the times. maybe you could find one or two stacks of materials...but most of it was random green crap for level 5-10.

sure, as a crafter you can upgrade to yellow, and as far as i know its not possible to find them. thats fine. but only for that? as i said, why should i want to spend horrible amounts of materials to crate for example a daedric looking blade with + critical chance, upgrade it white->green->blue->purple->yellow, if i can skip all of them and just farm mobs? sooner or later a dagger with the wanted values AND magic enchantment will drop, and i will get experience and gold while doing it.
So...why should a player spend 24 points for a crafting profession?

cTreK421

I think there just needs to be trade guilds and pve/pvp guils. Allow trade guilds to have a thousand members. Keep pvp/pve guilds the exact same.

allow us to join the same amount of guilds. This is classic TES. Joining multiple guilds is how the game is meant to be played. If you want to be loyal to one guild no one is forcing you to be loyal to all guilds. Seperating trade guilds from others solves problem of players just looking for a market and not a friendly guild to play with.

drake1980

I think we all just need to keep at it and suggesting to get a public auction or a way to set up shop outside of guild stores, as well as there being some kinda needed requirements for breaking down gear to some extent.

Eventualy I feel with people keeping up with this feedback and as long as its in the masses we will see eventualy a change to this stuff.

One thing can say I have a issue with is how fast you can level up provision crafting, just making magicka regen wines you use at level 5 and up got me from 4 to 38 in provisoning, I mean given I had to loot pretty much every chest and create I came across in the game though.

epoling

I know it has been suggested before but I feel it would be a big help if Trade Guilds could have some sort of store front where anybody could browse their goods.

Darzil

Sadae wrote: »

Maxium wrote: »

Yeah, I agree. Being able to deconstruct a Dwarven axe at Blacksmithing level 1 is really really stupid. I'm an apprentice blacksmith, yet I know how to smelt down some of the best items in the game and save materials from it? Really?

Deconstructing gear should follow the same rules as Creating it, and you should need the required skill level for it to do it.

Currently you get no base materials from deconstructing stuff more than a handful of levels above your level. What you can craft doesn't affect it, it's based on your character's level.

I guess high level crafters will at least be in demand for sharpening weapons (and armour), hemming skirts and polishing wood. Though it's easy enough to get the skills for that, it's actually making things and knowing all the traits that is a challenge.