Fantastic Game... But I feel alone.

Marmalade

Let me first begin by saying what an amazing job they have done with the game, the combat system is a breath of fresh air, the storyline is fantastic and the PvP is a lot of fun.

But having played MMOs for many many years I have never felt so alone in a game and such a lack of an in-game community.

1. Lack of Name Plates.
I understand the 'immersion' point. However this isnt a single player RPG they beauty of playing an MMO is social interaction and making friends through a community. I find this almost impossible without nameplates, I could have a great experience questing with someone, add them to friends, then they could be stood next to me the next day and not know its them. Its flawed and is ruining the experience for me. - I have only participated in PvP raids where it is an issue but a PvE raid is going to be impossible.

2. Guilds.
There are so many issues with the guilds its hard to fit them all into one topic really. Joining 5 guilds destroys the pride of being in a guild as you are constantly switching. The lack of nameplates means I couldnt name 1 guild from ESO that I am not part of as you never interact with them. I could see a great squad in PvP of players and wish to join their guild but would have no idea what its called. This along with account tags rather than name and cross faction guilds make them a joke.

I dont want to go on but there is more. I really love ESO and want it to succeed but these are major flaws that will destroy any type of in game community and I fear will stop people wanting to play. I for one am feeling ESO a pretty single player experience.

Gothlander

nameplates should be a toggable option in settings. and joining 5 guilds is stupid, atleast combine all 5 guild stores into one.

Marmalade

I also feel the cross-faction guilds take away any sort of rivalry. You are supposed to hate the other faction and wage war on each other, not happily chat and socialize. In all other MMOs I join a guild where I feel part of a team where as in ESO I join a guild and dont feel any different.

Teroh

1) Don't understand why you cant just target the person and hit f and add them as friends. Nameplates are pretty much pointless

2) Pick a better guild. I run an all Ebonheart guild and its fun , social, and engaging. The game is what you make of it.

Marmalade

What if I am in a crowd of people, what if they are over 5 meters away. what if they are moving. Ive spent so long just running after people trying to toggle the social menu. Its a ridiculous system. Its good to hear you run a working guild.. Id love to bump into your members online and then apply.. oh wait I have no way at all of seeing what guild people I meet are actually in.

Teroh

Marmalade wrote: »

What if I am in a crowd of people, what if they are over 5 meters away. what if they are moving. Ive spent so long just running after people trying to toggle the social menu. Its a ridiculous system. Its good to hear you run a working guild.. Id love to bump into your members online and then apply.. oh wait I have no way at all of seeing what guild people I meet are actually in.

Use zone chat, or /yell or /say when in local areas. I've met tons of people entering a dungeon and seeing someone there and asking if they want to team up. Or seeing someone low on hp and running up and healing them.

One of the biggest way's we recruit is by doing world bosses and public dungeons and sending out a zone message looking for more people to help.

Is it the best system? no but it works and is not as bad as you make it out to be.

Januk

1: As I said in another thread, ONLY ALLOW NAMEPLATES FOR GUILD N PARTY MEMBERS EXTENDING TO ALL FRIENDLIES IN PVP But no hostile nameplates.
Buuut no I don't feel alone,

2: Guilds... Not sure wth you're talking about GW2 got multi-guild functionality as well n people love it. The current problem lies with that you can't represent a single specific guild instead.

Darlgon

Marmalade wrote: »

What if I am in a crowd of people, what if they are over 5 meters away. what if they are moving. Ive spent so long just running after people trying to toggle the social menu. Its a ridiculous system. Its good to hear you run a working guild.. Id love to bump into your members online and then apply.. oh wait I have no way at all of seeing what guild people I meet are actually in.

If you were in a crowd of people, all their nameplates would merge together.
If they were over 5m away, depending on your LoS limits in the game, you may not see them, or their nameplates would be too small to see.
If they are moving, they probably have done nothing to make you want to Permafriend them. Most people would not make a friend from a single fight.
Best way to find out if a guild is good is to actually group with them, find out that their guild is not a gold spammer guild and then ask them. Like in every other MMO I have played.

KerinKor

Teroh wrote: »

1) Don't understand why you cant just target the person and hit f and add them as friends. Nameplates are pretty much pointless

2) Pick a better guild. I run an all Ebonheart guild and its fun , social, and engaging. The game is what you make of it.

1) the lack of nameplates makes the invisi-bot army almost immune to reporting, makes distinguishing PCs and NPCs impossible, means aspects such as guild association and titles pointless, etc.

2) LOL, 'leveling' guilds are hard to find in a game whose economy only exists inside guilds. Yes, traditional guilds are as you say, ESO destroyed the concept of those with this asinine AH-alternative.

Basically, on both topics ZOS pandered to the "ESO isn't a normal MMO" fans but failed totally see the huge negative effects their decisions have on those who put playability about 'immersion' (whatever that bizarre notion is).

Marmalade

I could live with the Multi-Guild system, but you need to be able to represent your guild in some way. There are supposed to be notorious guilds, guilds that are renound for being amazing at PvE or well organized at PvP. In the current system there isnt any way of distinguishing one guild from another or even knowing the names of any guilds.

I understand you recruit in /z but some guilds who only want to recruit a certain type of player or have strict acceptance policys cannot do this and people who would like to try to apply have no way of finding these guilds.

Some maybe happy with it, and good for you, all I am saying is that I have experienced many many mmos and dont feel in touch with or as if there is any sort of community at all in ESO.

Willow

Nope nope nope. I like it how it is. Options are good though. I would love to be able to click a option for name tag so i can report a bot. I would turn it right back of afterwards though. lol

Crazer

I couldn't agree with the OP more. I've raised this issue in every of the seven betas in which I participated, and it only gets worse with time. I have a tight-knit guild consisting solely of elite MMO PvP players. It makes coordinated PvP unnecessarily cumbersome, and at times completely impossible (even when we are all playing on TeamSpeak together!).

In a group of players, you can't tell who among them is in your own guild. Even in a guild-only group, you can't tell who is who. Where is the squad leader, the healers, the CC players, etc? It's just 12 people who all basically look the same with the same chevron over their head. ...And forget about calling shots on the enemies. Forget about trying to position your team in the heat of combat. Forget about recognizing great players on the enemy factions, or building a name for your guild on the battlefield. Forget about recognizing good players on your own faction to reach-out to in attempts to recruit them to your guild.

It's such a simple feature in all MMOs. Who would ever have thought a game that (all growing pains aside) is such a deep and amazing game in many ways would be so brutally handicapped by a feature so simple in design and implementation? I keep hearing the (misguided, selfish) argument over, and over, and over about "nameplates ruins my immersion", and I cannot for the life of me understand why those players are opposed to nameplates being an OPTION that can be toggled on or off.

I've seen arguments stating such nonsense as "nameplates gives an unfair advantage in PvP"... News Flash: If you are a single-player immersion kid playing in first-person, you have no chance when running into my guild on the battlefield anyway, nameplates or not. I see arguments saying "I don't want to see a bunch of neon crap floating all over my screen." That's fine. Turn them off and immerse yourself in fantasy land. I want to see if my friend is standing beside me. I want to see the name of a random person who helped me out of a jam while leveling. I want to see the name of a player who bested me in PvP, or one who was particularly hard to kill, I want to see my guild members in a sea of strangers and NPCs when I run back to town, I want to see my guild members amongst the herd in large PvP combat, I want to see specific guild members when coordinating intense, competitive PvP, I want to see other PvP guilds who play like we do, I want enemies to see my name when I best them; and my guild's name when we wipe a whole group of them and take their keep. If I didn't have a guild full of 30 people that were gathered in the months leading up to launch and who play together on TeamSpeak, I would feel just as isolated, alone, anonymous, and frustrated as the OP. It's a bigger issue than just seeing people's names on screen.

Immersion for me is a nice bonus, the result of a well-developed and well-designed game, but it would not even make my top 30 list of things I care about in an MMO (and I never would have thought I would have to put Nameplates on that list, for crying out loud!!!). For those players who want ESO to be Skyrim2 and try their damnedest to make it that way, I wish for them to have the ability to toggle on or off any of the UI functionality to allow them that experience. As much as I disagree with the way they play this game, I do not wish these unrelenting posterior discomforts on them at the other side of the nameplates spectrum.

For the love of Talos, PLEASE reintroduce the OPTIONAL ability for players to turn on name plates with guild tags. Or at the very least, open up the API enough for modders to create addons to supplement yet another feature that should have been in the base UI.

For the record, I've been playing MMOs since pre-WoW. I typically Hate addons. In all my years in WoW, I only used Recount to be able to refine my DPS output based on battle reports. As it stands, I currently use about 14 addons in ESO... and STILL do not have the basic functionality I expect from a quality MMO. I like the style of ESO's UI. It is just FAR too limited. I feel like I am being punished and forced to play with extreme handicaps for an experiment, a mean joke, or ridiculous challenge to pass the time. It should not be the base mechanic of such a great game. It should not be an on-going issue with thousands (millions?) of players wanting the OPTION to see with whom they are playing.

luckyjoemcb14_ESO

KerinKor wrote: »

Teroh wrote: »

1) Don't understand why you cant just target the person and hit f and add them as friends. Nameplates are pretty much pointless

2) Pick a better guild. I run an all Ebonheart guild and its fun , social, and engaging. The game is what you make of it.

1) the lack of nameplates makes the invisi-bot army almost immune to reporting, makes distinguishing PCs and NPCs impossible, means aspects such as guild association and titles pointless, etc.

2) LOL, 'leveling' guilds are hard to find in a game whose economy only exists inside guilds. Yes, traditional guilds are as you say, ESO destroyed the concept of those with this asinine AH-alternative.

Basically, on both topics ZOS pandered to the "ESO isn't a normal MMO" fans but failed totally see the huge negative effects their decisions have on those who put playability about 'immersion' (whatever that bizarre notion is).

I respect your opinion, however I disagree.

When thinking about how ESO might be able to "Make it" so to speak , my thought process ( and the thought process of a large number of my friends) Was that if ESO is to escape the eventual decline into F2P hell they would have to draw in the long time TES fans, and accept that they would loose the MMOers who tend to poison games ( Not trying to attack anyone here just saying the MMO community at large is toxic)

For a good deal of TES fans immersion, story, and perhaps even role playing is key. For MMO fans its something different be it Playing the markets in auction houses, power leveling, gear grinding, or what have you. Name plates , and faction spanning auction houses may be Key features for MMO fans, but TES fans ,I think and I may be wrong, Will appreciate it. Keep in mind that forums typically do not represent the players as a whole, but rather a small but very vocal percentage of them.

Just my 2 copper.

Zakua

I really like the idea to be able to toggle the nameplate feature.
I for sure do not want to see nameplate across every character.

It would be cool if you could toggle on nameplates in the settings menu and under the toggle it gave you several check boxes, allowing you to select what types of nameplates and so forth you want to view

Example....
Nameplates ON/OFF
Check box for:
Friends
Group members
Guild
All
Guild tags

This would be pretty cool IMO...

To address the guild tag issue our character UI would have a dropdown that allows you to select what GUILD you wish to display under your name...or something to that effect...

Marmalade

Crazer wrote: »

I couldn't agree with the OP more. I've raised this issue in every of the seven betas in which I participated, and it only gets worse with time. I have a tight-knit guild consisting solely of elite MMO PvP players. It makes coordinated PvP unnecessarily cumbersome, and at times completely impossible (even when we are all playing on TeamSpeak together!).

In a group of players, you can't tell who among them is in your own guild. Even in a guild-only group, you can't tell who is who. Where is the squad leader, the healers, the CC players, etc? It's just 12 people who all basically look the same with the same chevron over their head. ...And forget about calling shots on the enemies. Forget about trying to position your team in the heat of combat. Forget about recognizing great players on the enemy factions, or building a name for your guild on the battlefield. Forget about recognizing good players on your own faction to reach-out to in attempts to recruit them to your guild.

It's such a simple feature in all MMOs. Who would ever have thought a game that (all growing pains aside) is such a deep and amazing game in many ways would be so brutally handicapped by a feature so simple in design and implementation? I keep hearing the (misguided, selfish) argument over, and over, and over about "nameplates ruins my immersion", and I cannot for the life of me understand why those players are opposed to nameplates being an OPTION that can be toggled on or off.

I've seen arguments stating such nonsense as "nameplates gives an unfair advantage in PvP"... News Flash: If you are a single-player immersion kid playing in first-person, you have no chance when running into my guild on the battlefield anyway, nameplates or not. I see arguments saying "I don't want to see a bunch of neon crap floating all over my screen." That's fine. Turn them off and immerse yourself in fantasy land. I want to see if my friend is standing beside me. I want to see the name of a random person who helped me out of a jam while leveling. I want to see the name of a player who bested me in PvP, or one who was particularly hard to kill, I want to see my guild members in a sea of strangers and NPCs when I run back to town, I want to see my guild members amongst the herd in large PvP combat, I want to see specific guild members when coordinating intense, competitive PvP, I want to see other PvP guilds who play like we do, I want enemies to see my name when I best them; and my guild's name when we wipe a whole group of them and take their keep. If I didn't have a guild full of 30 people that were gathered in the months leading up to launch and who play together on TeamSpeak, I would feel just as isolated, alone, anonymous, and frustrated as the OP. It's a bigger issue than just seeing people's names on screen.

Immersion for me is a nice bonus, the result of a well-developed and well-designed game, but it would not even make my top 30 list of things I care about in an MMO (and I never would have thought I would have to put Nameplates on that list, for crying out loud!!!). For those players who want ESO to be Skyrim2 and try their damnedest to make it that way, I wish for them to have the ability to toggle on or off any of the UI functionality to allow them that experience. As much as I disagree with the way they play this game, I do not wish these unrelenting posterior discomforts on them at the other side of the nameplates spectrum.

For the love of Talos, PLEASE reintroduce the OPTIONAL ability for players to turn on name plates with guild tags. Or at the very least, open up the API enough for modders to create addons to supplement yet another feature that should have been in the base UI.

For the record, I've been playing MMOs since pre-WoW. I typically Hate addons. In all my years in WoW, I only used Recount to be able to refine my DPS output based on battle reports. As it stands, I currently use about 14 addons in ESO... and STILL do not have the basic functionality I expect from a quality MMO. I like the style of ESO's UI. It is just FAR too limited. I feel like I am being punished and forced to play with extreme handicaps for an experiment, a mean joke, or ridiculous challenge to pass the time. It should not be the base mechanic of such a great game. It should not be an on-going issue with thousands (millions?) of players wanting the OPTION to see with whom they are playing.

+1 for this man, you make a much better argument than me (possibly my poor english) but are spot on with all of the points. I fear they dont want to upset the die hard TES players by making the game too much like an MMO but doing so they have destroyed the MM aspect of the MMO. Its a shame and I hope it changes as I'd love to see this game become a great not just another FTP after a year.

Lalai

Nameplates I am not against as a toggle-able thing. IE, I don't have to see them, but if you want to then have at it.

Guilds I don't mind as is, but it would be nice to be able to pick a guild to represent somehow.

Marmalade

luckyjoemcb14_ESO wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

Teroh wrote: »

1) Don't understand why you cant just target the person and hit f and add them as friends. Nameplates are pretty much pointless

2) Pick a better guild. I run an all Ebonheart guild and its fun , social, and engaging. The game is what you make of it.

1) the lack of nameplates makes the invisi-bot army almost immune to reporting, makes distinguishing PCs and NPCs impossible, means aspects such as guild association and titles pointless, etc.

2) LOL, 'leveling' guilds are hard to find in a game whose economy only exists inside guilds. Yes, traditional guilds are as you say, ESO destroyed the concept of those with this asinine AH-alternative.

Basically, on both topics ZOS pandered to the "ESO isn't a normal MMO" fans but failed totally see the huge negative effects their decisions have on those who put playability about 'immersion' (whatever that bizarre notion is).

I respect your opinion, however I disagree.

When thinking about how ESO might be able to "Make it" so to speak , my thought process ( and the thought process of a large number of my friends) Was that if ESO is to escape the eventual decline into F2P hell they would have to draw in the long time TES fans, and accept that they would loose the MMOers who tend to poison games ( Not trying to attack anyone here just saying the MMO community at large is toxic)

For a good deal of TES fans immersion, story, and perhaps even role playing is key. For MMO fans its something different be it Playing the markets in auction houses, power leveling, gear grinding, or what have you. Name plates , and faction spanning auction houses may be Key features for MMO fans, but TES fans ,I think and I may be wrong, Will appreciate it. Keep in mind that forums typically do not represent the players as a whole, but rather a small but very vocal percentage of them.

Just my 2 copper.

I wonder how many of those 'die hard TES fans' log on and played a TES title for 3-4 hours every day for 1 or 2 years my guess is none.

You cannot parallel a single player RPG with an MMO they require completely different things to survive.

luckyjoemcb14_ESO

Marmalade wrote: »

luckyjoemcb14_ESO wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

Teroh wrote: »

1) Don't understand why you cant just target the person and hit f and add them as friends. Nameplates are pretty much pointless

2) Pick a better guild. I run an all Ebonheart guild and its fun , social, and engaging. The game is what you make of it.

1) the lack of nameplates makes the invisi-bot army almost immune to reporting, makes distinguishing PCs and NPCs impossible, means aspects such as guild association and titles pointless, etc.

2) LOL, 'leveling' guilds are hard to find in a game whose economy only exists inside guilds. Yes, traditional guilds are as you say, ESO destroyed the concept of those with this asinine AH-alternative.

Basically, on both topics ZOS pandered to the "ESO isn't a normal MMO" fans but failed totally see the huge negative effects their decisions have on those who put playability about 'immersion' (whatever that bizarre notion is).

I respect your opinion, however I disagree.

When thinking about how ESO might be able to "Make it" so to speak , my thought process ( and the thought process of a large number of my friends) Was that if ESO is to escape the eventual decline into F2P hell they would have to draw in the long time TES fans, and accept that they would loose the MMOers who tend to poison games ( Not trying to attack anyone here just saying the MMO community at large is toxic)

For a good deal of TES fans immersion, story, and perhaps even role playing is key. For MMO fans its something different be it Playing the markets in auction houses, power leveling, gear grinding, or what have you. Name plates , and faction spanning auction houses may be Key features for MMO fans, but TES fans ,I think and I may be wrong, Will appreciate it. Keep in mind that forums typically do not represent the players as a whole, but rather a small but very vocal percentage of them.

Just my 2 copper.

I wonder how many of those 'die hard TES fans' log on and played a TES title for 3-4 hours every day for 1 or 2 years my guess is none.

You cannot parallel a single player RPG with an MMO they require completely different things to survive.

Have you not seen posted times played for games like skyrim? Some of these people would put you to shame with how much time they invested into a single player game with half as much content as an MMO has.

Heck people still play Fall out New vegas and that game has been out for a while, they play it so much that there is a massively large modding community for it that spits out new mods daily. Not to mention Skyrim,Oblivion, and Morrowind. If there is one thing that TES has it is dedicated players.

Morthur

.

Marmalade

luckyjoemcb14_ESO wrote: »

Marmalade wrote: »

luckyjoemcb14_ESO wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

Teroh wrote: »

1) Don't understand why you cant just target the person and hit f and add them as friends. Nameplates are pretty much pointless

2) Pick a better guild. I run an all Ebonheart guild and its fun , social, and engaging. The game is what you make of it.

1) the lack of nameplates makes the invisi-bot army almost immune to reporting, makes distinguishing PCs and NPCs impossible, means aspects such as guild association and titles pointless, etc.

2) LOL, 'leveling' guilds are hard to find in a game whose economy only exists inside guilds. Yes, traditional guilds are as you say, ESO destroyed the concept of those with this asinine AH-alternative.

Basically, on both topics ZOS pandered to the "ESO isn't a normal MMO" fans but failed totally see the huge negative effects their decisions have on those who put playability about 'immersion' (whatever that bizarre notion is).

I respect your opinion, however I disagree.

When thinking about how ESO might be able to "Make it" so to speak , my thought process ( and the thought process of a large number of my friends) Was that if ESO is to escape the eventual decline into F2P hell they would have to draw in the long time TES fans, and accept that they would loose the MMOers who tend to poison games ( Not trying to attack anyone here just saying the MMO community at large is toxic)

For a good deal of TES fans immersion, story, and perhaps even role playing is key. For MMO fans its something different be it Playing the markets in auction houses, power leveling, gear grinding, or what have you. Name plates , and faction spanning auction houses may be Key features for MMO fans, but TES fans ,I think and I may be wrong, Will appreciate it. Keep in mind that forums typically do not represent the players as a whole, but rather a small but very vocal percentage of them.

Just my 2 copper.

I wonder how many of those 'die hard TES fans' log on and played a TES title for 3-4 hours every day for 1 or 2 years my guess is none.

You cannot parallel a single player RPG with an MMO they require completely different things to survive.

Have you not seen posted times played for games like skyrim? Some of these people would put you to shame with how much time they invested into a single player game with half as much content as an MMO has.

Heck people still play Fall out New vegas and that game has been out for a while, they play it so much that there is a massively large modding community for it that spits out new mods daily. Not to mention Skyrim,Oblivion, and Morrowind. If there is one thing that TES has it is dedicated players.

I have seen and I dont disagree that there are a number of players that have that sort of dedication to a single player game but these are not in the numbers that for example played WoW at its peak. That is whats needed to create a sustainable franchise. People may hate WoW here but you cannot ignore its success. It may have lost its way in the past few years but around TBC it was a fantastic game that had a enormous player base.

Eso could take a few points from other MMOs rather than trying to be different in every way.

Judge_Mental_One

I would like a nameplates option to be added as well.

luckyjoemcb14_ESO

Marmalade wrote: »

luckyjoemcb14_ESO wrote: »

Marmalade wrote: »

luckyjoemcb14_ESO wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

Teroh wrote: »

1) Don't understand why you cant just target the person and hit f and add them as friends. Nameplates are pretty much pointless

2) Pick a better guild. I run an all Ebonheart guild and its fun , social, and engaging. The game is what you make of it.

1) the lack of nameplates makes the invisi-bot army almost immune to reporting, makes distinguishing PCs and NPCs impossible, means aspects such as guild association and titles pointless, etc.

2) LOL, 'leveling' guilds are hard to find in a game whose economy only exists inside guilds. Yes, traditional guilds are as you say, ESO destroyed the concept of those with this asinine AH-alternative.

Basically, on both topics ZOS pandered to the "ESO isn't a normal MMO" fans but failed totally see the huge negative effects their decisions have on those who put playability about 'immersion' (whatever that bizarre notion is).

I respect your opinion, however I disagree.

When thinking about how ESO might be able to "Make it" so to speak , my thought process ( and the thought process of a large number of my friends) Was that if ESO is to escape the eventual decline into F2P hell they would have to draw in the long time TES fans, and accept that they would loose the MMOers who tend to poison games ( Not trying to attack anyone here just saying the MMO community at large is toxic)

For a good deal of TES fans immersion, story, and perhaps even role playing is key. For MMO fans its something different be it Playing the markets in auction houses, power leveling, gear grinding, or what have you. Name plates , and faction spanning auction houses may be Key features for MMO fans, but TES fans ,I think and I may be wrong, Will appreciate it. Keep in mind that forums typically do not represent the players as a whole, but rather a small but very vocal percentage of them.

Just my 2 copper.

I wonder how many of those 'die hard TES fans' log on and played a TES title for 3-4 hours every day for 1 or 2 years my guess is none.

You cannot parallel a single player RPG with an MMO they require completely different things to survive.

Have you not seen posted times played for games like skyrim? Some of these people would put you to shame with how much time they invested into a single player game with half as much content as an MMO has.

Heck people still play Fall out New vegas and that game has been out for a while, they play it so much that there is a massively large modding community for it that spits out new mods daily. Not to mention Skyrim,Oblivion, and Morrowind. If there is one thing that TES has it is dedicated players.

I have seen and I dont disagree that there are a number of players that have that sort of dedication to a single player game but these are not in the numbers that for example played WoW at its peak. That is whats needed to create a sustainable franchise. People may hate WoW here but you cannot ignore its success. It may have lost its way in the past few years but around TBC it was a fantastic game that had a enormous player base.

Eso could take a few points from other MMOs rather than trying to be different in every way.

I disagree. I think the best thing they can do ,especially since this game hits consoles in june, Is to stray as far from the MMO standard as possible. WoW was an outlier, and even if ESO only maintains half the numbers as WoW in its prime it will still be successful. WoW did alot of things right, it also did alot of things wrong and bred a new breed of vitriolic internet inhabitants that have ravaged the budding MMO landscape so much that it repercussions may never be undone. That is why people hate WoW.

WoW being a fantastic game is a subject for debate, I played it from release until recently, not because I liked it , but beacuse there was nothing else worth playing. One thing WoW has going for it is that everyone else copies it. Those that don't tend to do well for a short time until People start trying to change the game into WoW.

zaria

Rater than nameplates use character name in chat, the mix of character and account is confusing if name is different.

I like the 5 guild setup, it let you have various guilds for various reasons like RP, PvP and trade. it also let you try out new guilds without dropping the first, most an issue if you is in an decent guild but want to find a good one.
If you are in a bad guild you have nothing to loose.

Marmalade

luckyjoemcb14_ESO wrote: »

Marmalade wrote: »

luckyjoemcb14_ESO wrote: »

Marmalade wrote: »

luckyjoemcb14_ESO wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

Teroh wrote: »

1) Don't understand why you cant just target the person and hit f and add them as friends. Nameplates are pretty much pointless

2) Pick a better guild. I run an all Ebonheart guild and its fun , social, and engaging. The game is what you make of it.

1) the lack of nameplates makes the invisi-bot army almost immune to reporting, makes distinguishing PCs and NPCs impossible, means aspects such as guild association and titles pointless, etc.

2) LOL, 'leveling' guilds are hard to find in a game whose economy only exists inside guilds. Yes, traditional guilds are as you say, ESO destroyed the concept of those with this asinine AH-alternative.

Basically, on both topics ZOS pandered to the "ESO isn't a normal MMO" fans but failed totally see the huge negative effects their decisions have on those who put playability about 'immersion' (whatever that bizarre notion is).

I respect your opinion, however I disagree.

When thinking about how ESO might be able to "Make it" so to speak , my thought process ( and the thought process of a large number of my friends) Was that if ESO is to escape the eventual decline into F2P hell they would have to draw in the long time TES fans, and accept that they would loose the MMOers who tend to poison games ( Not trying to attack anyone here just saying the MMO community at large is toxic)

For a good deal of TES fans immersion, story, and perhaps even role playing is key. For MMO fans its something different be it Playing the markets in auction houses, power leveling, gear grinding, or what have you. Name plates , and faction spanning auction houses may be Key features for MMO fans, but TES fans ,I think and I may be wrong, Will appreciate it. Keep in mind that forums typically do not represent the players as a whole, but rather a small but very vocal percentage of them.

Just my 2 copper.

I wonder how many of those 'die hard TES fans' log on and played a TES title for 3-4 hours every day for 1 or 2 years my guess is none.

You cannot parallel a single player RPG with an MMO they require completely different things to survive.

Have you not seen posted times played for games like skyrim? Some of these people would put you to shame with how much time they invested into a single player game with half as much content as an MMO has.

Heck people still play Fall out New vegas and that game has been out for a while, they play it so much that there is a massively large modding community for it that spits out new mods daily. Not to mention Skyrim,Oblivion, and Morrowind. If there is one thing that TES has it is dedicated players.

I have seen and I dont disagree that there are a number of players that have that sort of dedication to a single player game but these are not in the numbers that for example played WoW at its peak. That is whats needed to create a sustainable franchise. People may hate WoW here but you cannot ignore its success. It may have lost its way in the past few years but around TBC it was a fantastic game that had a enormous player base.

Eso could take a few points from other MMOs rather than trying to be different in every way.

I disagree. I think the best thing they can do ,especially since this game hits consoles in june, Is to stray as far from the MMO standard as possible. WoW was an outlier, and even if ESO only maintains half the numbers as WoW in its prime it will still be successful. WoW did alot of things right, it also did alot of things wrong and bred a new breed of vitriolic internet inhabitants that have ravaged the budding MMO landscape so much that it repercussions may never be undone. That is why people hate WoW.

WoW being a fantastic game is a subject for debate, I played it from release until recently, not because I liked it , but beacuse there was nothing else worth playing. One thing WoW has going for it is that everyone else copies it. Those that don't tend to do well for a short time until People start trying to change the game into WoW.

This is the main issue that people have - as soon as WoW is mentioned all anyone thinks of is 14 year old trolls. WoW had some fantastic ideas and built a huge community of mature players that had years of fun. I am not saying copy wow at all. Im saying take note of how they built an in game community. Dont make the mistakes they made with server transfers and name changes and stick to the good parts.

scruffycavetroll

Gothlander wrote: »

nameplates should be a toggable option in settings. and joining 5 guilds is stupid, atleast combine all 5 guild stores into one.

ESOMART...FOR ALL YOUR ESO NEED..
.
MY IDEA, PATENT PENDING

gonna need store space somewhere in auridon.

luckyjoemcb14_ESO

Marmalade wrote: »

luckyjoemcb14_ESO wrote: »

Marmalade wrote: »

luckyjoemcb14_ESO wrote: »

Marmalade wrote: »

luckyjoemcb14_ESO wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

Teroh wrote: »

1) Don't understand why you cant just target the person and hit f and add them as friends. Nameplates are pretty much pointless

2) Pick a better guild. I run an all Ebonheart guild and its fun , social, and engaging. The game is what you make of it.

1) the lack of nameplates makes the invisi-bot army almost immune to reporting, makes distinguishing PCs and NPCs impossible, means aspects such as guild association and titles pointless, etc.

2) LOL, 'leveling' guilds are hard to find in a game whose economy only exists inside guilds. Yes, traditional guilds are as you say, ESO destroyed the concept of those with this asinine AH-alternative.

Basically, on both topics ZOS pandered to the "ESO isn't a normal MMO" fans but failed totally see the huge negative effects their decisions have on those who put playability about 'immersion' (whatever that bizarre notion is).

I respect your opinion, however I disagree.

When thinking about how ESO might be able to "Make it" so to speak , my thought process ( and the thought process of a large number of my friends) Was that if ESO is to escape the eventual decline into F2P hell they would have to draw in the long time TES fans, and accept that they would loose the MMOers who tend to poison games ( Not trying to attack anyone here just saying the MMO community at large is toxic)

For a good deal of TES fans immersion, story, and perhaps even role playing is key. For MMO fans its something different be it Playing the markets in auction houses, power leveling, gear grinding, or what have you. Name plates , and faction spanning auction houses may be Key features for MMO fans, but TES fans ,I think and I may be wrong, Will appreciate it. Keep in mind that forums typically do not represent the players as a whole, but rather a small but very vocal percentage of them.

Just my 2 copper.

I wonder how many of those 'die hard TES fans' log on and played a TES title for 3-4 hours every day for 1 or 2 years my guess is none.

You cannot parallel a single player RPG with an MMO they require completely different things to survive.

Have you not seen posted times played for games like skyrim? Some of these people would put you to shame with how much time they invested into a single player game with half as much content as an MMO has.

Heck people still play Fall out New vegas and that game has been out for a while, they play it so much that there is a massively large modding community for it that spits out new mods daily. Not to mention Skyrim,Oblivion, and Morrowind. If there is one thing that TES has it is dedicated players.

I have seen and I dont disagree that there are a number of players that have that sort of dedication to a single player game but these are not in the numbers that for example played WoW at its peak. That is whats needed to create a sustainable franchise. People may hate WoW here but you cannot ignore its success. It may have lost its way in the past few years but around TBC it was a fantastic game that had a enormous player base.

Eso could take a few points from other MMOs rather than trying to be different in every way.

I disagree. I think the best thing they can do ,especially since this game hits consoles in june, Is to stray as far from the MMO standard as possible. WoW was an outlier, and even if ESO only maintains half the numbers as WoW in its prime it will still be successful. WoW did alot of things right, it also did alot of things wrong and bred a new breed of vitriolic internet inhabitants that have ravaged the budding MMO landscape so much that it repercussions may never be undone. That is why people hate WoW.

WoW being a fantastic game is a subject for debate, I played it from release until recently, not because I liked it , but beacuse there was nothing else worth playing. One thing WoW has going for it is that everyone else copies it. Those that don't tend to do well for a short time until People start trying to change the game into WoW.

This is the main issue that people have - as soon as WoW is mentioned all anyone thinks of is 14 year old trolls. WoW had some fantastic ideas and built a huge community of mature players that had years of fun. I am not saying copy wow at all. Im saying take note of how they built an in game community. Dont make the mistakes they made with server transfers and name changes and stick to the good parts.

I have quite enjoyed my chance at discussion with you, and I appreciate the civility with which you have responded. I just wanted to take time out to tell you that, since I suspect that is fairly rare now.

While I would hate to have namplates or an AH, I would support more social tools, such as guild Heraldry (perhaps a guild crest that can be attached to armor , say the chest plate, or pauldrons) And a trade channel. I think perhaps instead of insisiting that ESO conform to MMO norms a more productive approach would be to come up with different ideas that would allow the best of both worlds.

Grayphilosophy

Nameplats?
Sigh, fine, an option that's unavailable in PvP if you absolutely must.
It's perfectly possible to distinguish players from NPC's though, also possible to distinguish between individual characters. I used to play WoW and disabled the nameplates back then, took some getting used to, but I'm now able to tell the difference between friend and foe in PvP without the use of giant colourful nameplates. Because I've adapted to notice character features instead. Whoa.

Guilds.
I see what you mean, I find the whole 5 guilds thing a Little confusing myself. As some others have suggested it'd be nice to be able to choose a "main" guild to represent, perhaps with the addition of guild banners/tabards/capes/crests/something for representin'

Marmalade

luckyjoemcb14_ESO wrote: »

Marmalade wrote: »

luckyjoemcb14_ESO wrote: »

Marmalade wrote: »

luckyjoemcb14_ESO wrote: »

Marmalade wrote: »

luckyjoemcb14_ESO wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

Teroh wrote: »

1) Don't understand why you cant just target the person and hit f and add them as friends. Nameplates are pretty much pointless

2) Pick a better guild. I run an all Ebonheart guild and its fun , social, and engaging. The game is what you make of it.

1) the lack of nameplates makes the invisi-bot army almost immune to reporting, makes distinguishing PCs and NPCs impossible, means aspects such as guild association and titles pointless, etc.

2) LOL, 'leveling' guilds are hard to find in a game whose economy only exists inside guilds. Yes, traditional guilds are as you say, ESO destroyed the concept of those with this asinine AH-alternative.

Basically, on both topics ZOS pandered to the "ESO isn't a normal MMO" fans but failed totally see the huge negative effects their decisions have on those who put playability about 'immersion' (whatever that bizarre notion is).

I respect your opinion, however I disagree.

When thinking about how ESO might be able to "Make it" so to speak , my thought process ( and the thought process of a large number of my friends) Was that if ESO is to escape the eventual decline into F2P hell they would have to draw in the long time TES fans, and accept that they would loose the MMOers who tend to poison games ( Not trying to attack anyone here just saying the MMO community at large is toxic)

For a good deal of TES fans immersion, story, and perhaps even role playing is key. For MMO fans its something different be it Playing the markets in auction houses, power leveling, gear grinding, or what have you. Name plates , and faction spanning auction houses may be Key features for MMO fans, but TES fans ,I think and I may be wrong, Will appreciate it. Keep in mind that forums typically do not represent the players as a whole, but rather a small but very vocal percentage of them.

Just my 2 copper.

I wonder how many of those 'die hard TES fans' log on and played a TES title for 3-4 hours every day for 1 or 2 years my guess is none.

You cannot parallel a single player RPG with an MMO they require completely different things to survive.

Have you not seen posted times played for games like skyrim? Some of these people would put you to shame with how much time they invested into a single player game with half as much content as an MMO has.

Heck people still play Fall out New vegas and that game has been out for a while, they play it so much that there is a massively large modding community for it that spits out new mods daily. Not to mention Skyrim,Oblivion, and Morrowind. If there is one thing that TES has it is dedicated players.

I have seen and I dont disagree that there are a number of players that have that sort of dedication to a single player game but these are not in the numbers that for example played WoW at its peak. That is whats needed to create a sustainable franchise. People may hate WoW here but you cannot ignore its success. It may have lost its way in the past few years but around TBC it was a fantastic game that had a enormous player base.

Eso could take a few points from other MMOs rather than trying to be different in every way.

I disagree. I think the best thing they can do ,especially since this game hits consoles in june, Is to stray as far from the MMO standard as possible. WoW was an outlier, and even if ESO only maintains half the numbers as WoW in its prime it will still be successful. WoW did alot of things right, it also did alot of things wrong and bred a new breed of vitriolic internet inhabitants that have ravaged the budding MMO landscape so much that it repercussions may never be undone. That is why people hate WoW.

WoW being a fantastic game is a subject for debate, I played it from release until recently, not because I liked it , but beacuse there was nothing else worth playing. One thing WoW has going for it is that everyone else copies it. Those that don't tend to do well for a short time until People start trying to change the game into WoW.

This is the main issue that people have - as soon as WoW is mentioned all anyone thinks of is 14 year old trolls. WoW had some fantastic ideas and built a huge community of mature players that had years of fun. I am not saying copy wow at all. Im saying take note of how they built an in game community. Dont make the mistakes they made with server transfers and name changes and stick to the good parts.

I have quite enjoyed my chance at discussion with you, and I appreciate the civility with which you have responded. I just wanted to take time out to tell you that, since I suspect that is fairly rare now.

While I would hate to have namplates or an AH, I would support more social tools, such as guild Heraldry (perhaps a guild crest that can be attached to armor , say the chest plate, or pauldrons) And a trade channel. I think perhaps instead of insisiting that ESO conform to MMO norms a more productive approach would be to come up with different ideas that would allow the best of both worlds.

The feeling is mutual.

Im totally open to ESO coming up with a new way of distinguishing players. I just feel that the careful decision on choosing an in game name. And the decision to join a guild have become totally irrelevant as I never see them on myself or other people. Even in guild chat its my account name...

A crest could work maybe like the faction markers in AvA..

Jeremy

Marmalade wrote: »

Let me first begin by saying what an amazing job they have done with the game, the combat system is a breath of fresh air, the storyline is fantastic and the PvP is a lot of fun.

But having played MMOs for many many years I have never felt so alone in a game and such a lack of an in-game community.

1. Lack of Name Plates.
I understand the 'immersion' point. However this isnt a single player RPG they beauty of playing an MMO is social interaction and making friends through a community. I find this almost impossible without nameplates, I could have a great experience questing with someone, add them to friends, then they could be stood next to me the next day and not know its them. Its flawed and is ruining the experience for me. - I have only participated in PvP raids where it is an issue but a PvE raid is going to be impossible.

2. Guilds.
There are so many issues with the guilds its hard to fit them all into one topic really. Joining 5 guilds destroys the pride of being in a guild as you are constantly switching. The lack of nameplates means I couldnt name 1 guild from ESO that I am not part of as you never interact with them. I could see a great squad in PvP of players and wish to join their guild but would have no idea what its called. This along with account tags rather than name and cross faction guilds make them a joke.

I dont want to go on but there is more. I really love ESO and want it to succeed but these are major flaws that will destroy any type of in game community and I fear will stop people wanting to play. I for one am feeling ESO a pretty single player experience.

Nameplates might be ok so long as they restrict them to other players. I would hate to see them encompass other interactions such as nodes, readable objects etc. Because I do think that would hurt the sense of realism and immersion this game's environment achieves.

luckyjoemcb14_ESO

Im wondering also if maybe part of the want for name plates , is beacuse of the placement of the bar when you look at someone? If the name plate only appeared right above the players head when you targeted them, instead of it appearing at the top of the screen would that maybe help? That way the server does not have to constantly load thousands of nameplates, but you can still see who is near you with just a casual glance around.

scruffycavetroll

there are certain things that this game just needs to do.

I totally get what they're trying to do in keep true to TES series, and i appreciate it, really i do.

HOWEVER, some things just need to be in this game, and the hardcore fans just need to suck it up and sacrifice some authenticity for better playability / economic features. The reality is THIS IS NOT A SINGLE PLAYER GAME. This game needs to push player interactions. Player names, whether as a toggle setting or static should be there. A public AH is needed to push the games economy forward, no player should be forced to guild just to buy items...it was an interesting thought in theory, but as a practice, is far from practical.

No one is suggesting turn this into another game, or strip the game of its TES roots, but, there are certain features that should be in an MMO. this game is turning features that need to be open to all players into a semi-private / restricted venue.

no on is saying a guild store can't be there, but if you know ANYTHING about selling an item, your whole thought process should be having that item reach as many people as possible...having 5 guild stores reaching a limited amount of people is FAR less efficient than 1 store reaching everybody. IF you're a crafter wanting to make gold, you should prefer the second option every single time because it's far more exposure.

the uber fan blinders need to come off, and compromises need to be made to make this game the success we ALL want it to be. there is no reason an trade house / public commerce center takes away from the game.

the game has merchants that can sell to everyone, players can't? makes 0 sense. adding a common feature among all MMO's to this, doesn't push it in one direction or the other, this game still has PLENTY OF ITS OWN IDENTITY to distinguish it.