imac 27" 2013 - Stutters during gameplay.

garfsbastian

Hello there first of all il just put my spec here

Imac 27" 2013 ( new ones )
Processor 2,9 GHz Intel Core i5
Memory 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
Graphics NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M 512 MB
Software OS X 10.9.2 (13C64) Mavericks

I already tried bunch of stuff in the config, tried to tweak it around, tried to disable addons etc. but it seems that i have to play in low/med quality and in 19xx14 resolution..and i just get a mere 20-40 fps not more and in dungeons or cyrodill my god wont even talk the shutters/hips i get...cant seem to find the problem here

Any help would be really appreciated :c thank you!

KhajitFurTrader

20-40 fps, especially at 2560x1440, is pretty normal. The graphics engine seems mostly CPU-limited. Which isn't really a surprise, since the scenery that gets displayed has to be synchronized with information that comes over the network, and GPUs don't do that.

About those stutters...are you on Wi-Fi? The first thing you could try is to get off of Wi-Fi, and use a network cable to directly connect to your router. This will eliminate a whole lot of potential network issues.

You didn't write whether your Mac has a normal HDD, a Fusion Drive, or a SSD. The video memory (VRAM) of the 660M is a tad small for today's video games' demands, so the mass storage might get taxed more I/O wise, compared to video cards with 1 GB and more. In addition to the framebuffer, textures, meshes, shaders, etc. are loaded on demand from the game files to the VRAM, and the smaller that is, the more I/O operations per time unit will have to be performed. So if you're still on a rotating disk with magnetic bits, you might want to try playing the game from an external Thunderbolt-SSD. It's not so much about transfer speed (bandwidth), but about I/O operations per second (IOPS), and regarding these, even the slowest SSD leaves the fastest HDD in the dust.

Finally, I wouldn't worry too much about "tweaking" the game via its config file. First, no one is sure if any of those settings get evaluated in the same way on the Mac (OpenGL) as they get on the PC (DX11). Second, regardless of the video settings, the game client seems to do a lot on its own, depending on surroundings. For instance, in very crowded scenes the LOD (level of detail) gets cranked way down, and you see only low-res armor textures even at close distances. If you're worried about performance, view distance and shadows usually have a huge impact, so tuning them down should make a noticeable difference.

Edit: just to clarify, some of the phenomenons people are experiencing lately may as well be due to ESO picking up a ton of new users after launch. There is a thread at reddit implying as much. You simply can't fix server side "lag" on the client side.

Moonraker

garfsbastian wrote: »

Hello there first of all il just put my spec here

Imac 27" 2013 ( new ones )
Processor 2,9 GHz Intel Core i5
Memory 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
Graphics NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M 512 MB
Software OS X 10.9.2 (13C64) Mavericks

I already tried bunch of stuff in the config, tried to tweak it around, tried to disable addons etc. but it seems that i have to play in low/med quality and in 19xx14 resolution..and i just get a mere 20-40 fps not more and in dungeons or cyrodill my god wont even talk the shutters/hips i get...cant seem to find the problem here

Any help would be really appreciated :c thank you!

Unfortunately you are restricted by the graphics card (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M 512 MB) in that iMac especially when it trying to drive a 27 inch screen at 2560x1440 resolution screen.

512MB is basically the minimum specification;

WHAT ARE THE MINIMUM SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS FOR THE ELDER SCROLLS ONLINE ON PC AND MAC?
Updated 04/01/2014 08:14 AM Published 01/23/2014 04:39 PM
[ The minimum system requirements for the game on PC are: ]

— Operating System: Windows XP 32-bit
— Processor: Dual Core 2.0GHz or equivalent processor
— Memory: 2GB System RAM
— Hard Disk Space: 60GB free HDD space
— Video Card: DirectX 9.0 compliant video card with 512MB of RAM (NVIDIA® GeForce® 8800 / ATI Radeon™ 2600 or better)
— Sound: DirectX compatible sound card.
[ On Mac, the minimum system requirements are: ]

— Operating System: Mac OS X 10.7.0 or later,
— Processor: Intel® Core™ 2 Duo,
— Video Card: Intel® HD Graphics 4000, NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 330M or ATI Radeon™ HD 6490M or better,
— Memory: 4GB RAM,
— Storage: 60GB,
— Media: DVD-ROM,
— Resolution: 1024 X 768 minimum display resolution.
** Players will also need a persistent internet connection in order to play. System requirements are subject to change over time.

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4720

That is for normal PVE questing. For Cyrodiil big battles any Mac system (and most PC) would have to reduce settings which is common in most PvP where performance is more important than visuals. That card will struggle to even with Lowest settings in PvP. It is just weak for any 3D gaming which makes demands on the card.

In dungeons I find the opposite where my FPS maxes out and I set things higher again.

Generally setting Shadow Quality to Medium (probably Off for you) will make the biggest difference for FPS. Also View Distance. Then tweak other settings. Vsync should always be off as it is double buffering and will cap FPS and use up more memory anyhow which is not good for the Mac client at the moment.

Bottom line that graphics card is not really up to demanding 3D gaming. The next upgrade up makes a big difference and the top one works really great (I have that). Check out this MacRumors thread on gaming with the GTX 660M.

garfsbastian

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

20-40 fps, especially at 2560x1440, is pretty normal. The graphics engine seems mostly CPU-limited. Which isn't really a surprise, since the scenery that gets displayed has to be synchronized with information that comes over the network, and GPUs don't do that.

About those stutters...are you on Wi-Fi? The first thing you could try is to get off of Wi-Fi, and use a network cable to directly connect to your router. This will eliminate a whole lot of potential network issues.

You didn't write whether your Mac has a normal HDD, a Fusion Drive, or a SSD. The video memory (VRAM) of the 660M is a tad small for today's video games' demands, so the mass storage might get taxed more I/O wise, compared to video cards with 1 GB and more. In addition to the framebuffer, textures, meshes, shaders, etc. are loaded on demand from the game files to the VRAM, and the smaller that is, the more I/O operations per time unit will have to be performed. So if you're still on a rotating disk with magnetic bits, you might want to try playing the game from an external Thunderbolt-SSD. It's not so much about transfer speed (bandwidth), but about I/O operations per second (IOPS), and regarding these, even the slowest SSD leaves the fastest HDD in the dust.

-Yes im running with a resolution of 19xx14 or if i get rly mad with the little stutters that are constant i put it to 16xx12, too bad that when i get the resolution down the stuff tend to get really blurry.
.Im gonna try and get rid of the wi-fi to see if it gets better
.Im on a Fusion drive atm

-Any further solution? geting down the resolution / get rid of wi-fi / "change the graphic card ahah" / quality set at low.medium / ?

-vsync and AA like the other stuff are off tried everything at off but theres still some little stutters allways around..thats why its strange

thansk for the help so far guys!

RastSekyd

You should also check your temperatures. Intel's processors(and GPUs, but I'm positive you're using the real card over that) tend to throttle and lower the clock speed to maintain a predetermined "safe" operating temperature. This generally caps around 60c for desktops and 80c for laptops.

When I run on my laptop(which uses a paltry i3 processor and HD4000), it tends to heat up to around 80 and I notice stuttering as well. Using a cooling pad reduces this to around 70 with a heavy load(less if I lower the graphics a bit) and resulted in a more consistent stutter-free FPS.

Also, your internet could be causing this. It's entirely possible to have a consistent 60+ FPS but still see stuttering if you have latency spikes, as the game will be struggling to load up certain elements of the world. If this is the case, lowering the view distance will help a lot.

One last option would be to lower your resolution quite a bit(say, to 1600x900, or even a bit lower) while raising some of the other settings to keep the game looking nice. If you lower the resolution below 14x10 or so, you'll want subsampling at HIGH or it'll be really blurry.

garfsbastian

RastSekyd wrote: »

You should also check your temperatures. Intel's processors(and GPUs, but I'm positive you're using the real card over that) tend to throttle and lower the clock speed to maintain a predetermined "safe" operating temperature. This generally caps around 60c for desktops and 80c for laptops.

When I run on my laptop(which uses a paltry i3 processor and HD4000), it tends to heat up to around 80 and I notice stuttering as well. Using a cooling pad reduces this to around 70 with a heavy load(less if I lower the graphics a bit) and resulted in a more consistent stutter-free FPS.

Also, your internet could be causing this. It's entirely possible to have a consistent 60+ FPS but still see stuttering if you have latency spikes, as the game will be struggling to load up certain elements of the world. If this is the case, lowering the view distance will help a lot.

One last option would be to lower your resolution quite a bit(say, to 1600x900, or even a bit lower) while raising some of the other settings to keep the game looking nice. If you lower the resolution below 14x10 or so, you'll want subsampling at HIGH or it'll be really blurry.

I dont think its the temperature, pretty sure since the stutters are there since the second i come in

Yeh il the wi-fi problem, i have a router just next to me connected with the cable, maybe they are interfering? dont know.

Yeh i have the resolution at 1600x1200 - with the subsampling at high ( if i put low, it looks like im playing a 90's game ahah ), when i lower the resolution it seems to flow better, the stutters are still around but the game seems to run better. and the view distance is set to 30.

But even if i put my resolution at 800x 600 ( a mess, just a test! ) i can feel the mini stutters around so..that must say something

PS: sorry for the English, hope i made myself clear.

Yshaar

Sounds like a Memory Problem. are you running 4gb ram? Tried to check the activity window while running the game? End all apps running, especially Dropbox.

garfsbastian

Yshaar wrote: »

Sounds like a Memory Problem. are you running 4gb ram? Tried to check the activity window while running the game? End all apps running, especially Dropbox.

I ended up dropbox, it was on i must say, but dindt see a difference i guess.

In the activity monitor Eso shows up with a usage of 1.11GB
and kernel_task 1.21GB

Im running the game throw steam, should i be concerned by that?
Somehow in the activity monitor it shows that gameoverlayui is not responding but it works..hm strange.

Yshaar

Shut down everything not needed, maybe even the launcher. So you are running on 4gb of ram? Upgrade. Now. It is cheap. This is your fix.

Moonraker

garfsbastian wrote: »

Yshaar wrote: »

Sounds like a Memory Problem. are you running 4gb ram? Tried to check the activity window while running the game? End all apps running, especially Dropbox.

I ended up dropbox, it was on i must say, but dindt see a difference i guess.

In the activity monitor Eso shows up with a usage of 1.11GB
and kernel_task 1.21GB

Im running the game throw steam, should i be concerned by that?
Somehow in the activity monitor it shows that gameoverlayui is not responding but it works..hm strange.

As @Yshaar said 4GB is minimum and will cause issue though not sure it will make the micro stutter.

I would definitely not run it via Steam as the overlay may well mess things up. At least to no use and try without it.

Yshaar

That Kernel_task seems too high in memory to me. You should consider some googling and maybe reinstalling Mavericks on a clean install

garfsbastian

Ok i runned the game in another 2 pcs ( macbook pro and a windows laptop )
and they runned without stutterings or what so ever. ( medium quality and lows just like im running in the Imac )

Specs:

Macbook pro-
Processor 2 GHz Intel Core i7
4 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
AMD Radeon HD 6490M 256 MB
Software OS X 10.9.2 (13C64)

When monitoring on this
Kernel_task at 1.44gb
And the Eso was only at 250mb..
So in my Imac was at 1gb+..could say something??

Laptop-
Windows 8 64bit
4060 MB
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T9600 @ 2.80GHz
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4650


I wil assume it cant be about the hardware by this test i did.
I did a test where i zoomed in the view of the character ( V by default ) and the stuttering guess went gone?..dont know if its relevant, since i dont play with the first person view.
I play wow and when i installed mavericks i had a sudden drop on fps, could be the mavericks? but the macbook pro has mavericks aswell and was running ok hm..

Could be the Nvidia?..when i go to the site i cant upgrade the drives, they say its not supported for mac

What a really strange thing aha!
any further inputs?
and thanks for the help so far

KhajitFurTrader

On a more general note, no, you can't update graphics drivers directly in OS X, they get updated with the OS. Apple does take drivers from ATI and nVidia to build them in, but they're usually several versions behind of what's current at the time of building.

The next update to Mavericks, 10.9.3, is around the corner. It will have improved 4k support, so we can hope that things will improve performance-wise.

Moonraker

Yshaar wrote: »

That Kernel_task seems too high in memory to me. You should consider some googling and maybe reinstalling Mavericks on a clean install

Mines at 1.25GB after some hours open on similar iMac so it's probably at a normal level.

garfsbastian

Moonraker wrote: »

Yshaar wrote: »

That Kernel_task seems too high in memory to me. You should consider some googling and maybe reinstalling Mavericks on a clean install

Mines at 1.25GB after some hours open on similar iMac so it's probably at a normal level.

yeh i think its normal at 1gb - not normal at 4gb or upper.
my imac and macbookpro show the same value, but eso showed another, at my imac- 1.44gb and in the macbookpro just a mere 450mb..dont know if its relevant?

Moonraker

garfsbastian wrote: »

Macbook pro-
Processor 2 GHz Intel Core i7
4 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
AMD Radeon HD 6490M 256 MB
Software OS X 10.9.2 (13C64)

When monitoring on this
Kernel_task at 1.44gb
And the Eso was only at 250mb..
So in my Imac was at 1gb+..could say something??

The graphics card memory really is minimal at 256MB. Difference one is driving a 15 inch display, the other a 27 inch display.

ESO as 250MB will be just when launched. Mine is 210MB. At character screen it's 1.2GB. Launching character to the game it increases to 1.7GB.

Incidentally this is at Ultra-High (Shadow Quality Medium) at 2560 x 1440 and you can see that it is only leaving around 1GB of real memory left to limit.

The higher the resolution & settings the more memory is preloaded by the Mac client.

Setting set to Medium = 1.49GB

Setting to Minimum = 1.21GB

On Macs with smaller screens/ resolution and settings this can be a lot smaller.

garfsbastian

Moonraker wrote: »

garfsbastian wrote: »

Macbook pro-
Processor 2 GHz Intel Core i7
4 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
AMD Radeon HD 6490M 256 MB
Software OS X 10.9.2 (13C64)

When monitoring on this
Kernel_task at 1.44gb
And the Eso was only at 250mb..
So in my Imac was at 1gb+..could say something??

The graphics card memory really is minimal at 256MB. Difference one is driving a 15 inch display, the other a 27 inch display.

ESO as 250MB will be just when launched. Mine is 210MB. At character screen it's 1.2GB. Launching character to the game it increases to 1.7GB.

Incidentally this is at Ultra-High (Shadow Quality Medium) at 2560 x 1440 and you can see that it is only leaving around 1GB of real memory left to limit.

The higher the resolution & settings the more memory is preloaded by the Mac client.

Setting set to Medium = 1.49GB

Setting to Minimum = 1.21GB

On Macs with smaller screens/ resolution and settings this can be a lot smaller.

So my problem should be the 27" screen that is causing me my stuttering? curious

Moonraker

garfsbastian wrote: »

Moonraker wrote: »

garfsbastian wrote: »

Macbook pro-
Processor 2 GHz Intel Core i7
4 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
AMD Radeon HD 6490M 256 MB
Software OS X 10.9.2 (13C64)

When monitoring on this
Kernel_task at 1.44gb
And the Eso was only at 250mb..
So in my Imac was at 1gb+..could say something??

The graphics card memory really is minimal at 256MB. Difference one is driving a 15 inch display, the other a 27 inch display.

ESO as 250MB will be just when launched. Mine is 210MB. At character screen it's 1.2GB. Launching character to the game it increases to 1.7GB.

Incidentally this is at Ultra-High (Shadow Quality Medium) at 2560 x 1440 and you can see that it is only leaving around 1GB of real memory left to limit.

The higher the resolution & settings the more memory is preloaded by the Mac client.

Setting set to Medium = 1.49GB

Setting to Minimum = 1.21GB

On Macs with smaller screens/ resolution and settings this can be a lot smaller.

So my problem should be the 27" screen that is causing me my stuttering? curious

Not so much the screen but the size of it and the graphics card having to draw the pixels to it in higher resolution i.e. more work for the GPU.

You iMac is a one version older than mine your being the Apple iMac 27in (Late 2012) base model. Even the base late 2013 model still has a comparatively poor graphics card.

But either with the upgraded graphics card just make a lot of difference for 3D gaming performance. As an example my Late 2013 iMac 27 inch has a reasonable general spec bump but with the top end graphics card it can handle Ultra-High settings with no issue (outside highly populated situations or PvP). The higher end graphics cards are really worth paying the extra especially as you can't (easily) upgrade these Macs.

System: iMac 27-inch, Late 2013/ 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5/ 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3/ NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M 4096 MB/ OS X 10.9.2

Having said all that there may be some other issue why you get the micro stutters as others have suggested. But even without them the performance will be limited.

garfsbastian

hm well i see i would say its another problem not related to hardware still..
since this 2 laptops im in are lower in specs..so its something else :P damn it!

i can admit my Imac is "weak to handle eso" but what makes me sad is this situation where 2 laptops run "clean" with no shuttering and a 1year old mac does that, ah well..maybe i must live with it, or il try to reinstall it, and still need to try with the cable internet.

Moonraker

garfsbastian wrote: »

hm well i see i would say its another problem not related to hardware still..
since this 2 laptops im in are lower in specs..so its something else :P damn it!

i can admit my Imac is "weak to handle eso" but what makes me sad is this situation where 2 laptops run "clean" with no shuttering and a 1year old mac does that, ah well..maybe i must live with it, or il try to reinstall it, and still need to try with the cable internet.

Worth trying to other connect and just aim to eliminate all the potential causes from the things to try.

Yshaar

I would do a clean Mavericks install on your imac.

garfsbastian

Yshaar wrote: »

I would do a clean Mavericks install on your imac.

hm i could try, i had a problem with bootcamp a month ago so i unistalled windows here, it could have ruined maverick somehow ( the problem was Maverick coulnt turn on and stayed on the grey screen with loading thing forever - removed bootcamp - fixed )
if you mean by the kernel_task i dont think it could be that, my guess.
Why you suggest to do a clean maverick install? just to know ( btw you do that throw the appstore correct? )

thannk you!

Moonraker

garfsbastian wrote: »

Yshaar wrote: »

I would do a clean Mavericks install on your imac.

hm i could try, i had a problem with bootcamp a month ago so i unistalled windows here, it could have ruined maverick somehow ( the problem was Maverick coulnt turn on and stayed on the grey screen with loading thing forever - removed bootcamp - fixed )
if you mean by the kernel_task i dont think it could be that, my guess.
Why you suggest to do a clean maverick install? just to know ( btw you do that throw the appstore correct? )

thannk you!

A fresh install of OS X will ensure that any issues related to some corruption or other factor will be resolved as it will install everything new and updated. It's why if a someone is having continued issues that do not get fixed with general troubleshooting efforts, it is the next step.

Yes, it is via the App Store >Purchases. It was a free update.

Instructions for doing a Fresh Install can be found here.

garfsbastian

Moonraker wrote: »

garfsbastian wrote: »

Yshaar wrote: »

I would do a clean Mavericks install on your imac.

hm i could try, i had a problem with bootcamp a month ago so i unistalled windows here, it could have ruined maverick somehow ( the problem was Maverick coulnt turn on and stayed on the grey screen with loading thing forever - removed bootcamp - fixed )
if you mean by the kernel_task i dont think it could be that, my guess.
Why you suggest to do a clean maverick install? just to know ( btw you do that throw the appstore correct? )

thannk you!

A fresh install of OS X will ensure that any issues related to some corruption or other factor will be resolved as it will install everything new and updated. It's why if a someone is having continued issues that do not get fixed with general troubleshooting efforts, it is the next step.

Yes, it is via the App Store >Purchases. It was a free update.

Instructions for doing a Fresh Install can be found here.

Il give it a shot! thanks for you time mate really appreciated, il let you know with further news when i get all the tests done!

Moonraker

garfsbastian wrote: »

Moonraker wrote: »

garfsbastian wrote: »

Yshaar wrote: »

I would do a clean Mavericks install on your imac.

hm i could try, i had a problem with bootcamp a month ago so i unistalled windows here, it could have ruined maverick somehow ( the problem was Maverick coulnt turn on and stayed on the grey screen with loading thing forever - removed bootcamp - fixed )
if you mean by the kernel_task i dont think it could be that, my guess.
Why you suggest to do a clean maverick install? just to know ( btw you do that throw the appstore correct? )

thannk you!

A fresh install of OS X will ensure that any issues related to some corruption or other factor will be resolved as it will install everything new and updated. It's why if a someone is having continued issues that do not get fixed with general troubleshooting efforts, it is the next step.

Yes, it is via the App Store >Purchases. It was a free update.

Instructions for doing a Fresh Install can be found here.

Il give it a shot! thanks for you time mate really appreciated, il let you know with further news when i get all the tests done!

Good luck with it!

Yshaar

Thanks Moonraker, as always more elaborate than me. Exactly what he said

Good luck, let us know.

garfsbastian

So here are my results:

Installed again eso - nothing really changed
installed clean maverick - really nothing changed
Net by cable - Nothing that is relevant

So this is what I tried and it seems to smooth the stuttering/breaks -
putting the game in window mode and reducing the size of the window to an actual size of 14xx12 around that (laptop size..since the graphic i have are designed to a laptop..:c) its really disappointing that i have to play in such a tiny window and not taking advantage of the full screen, should be this my resolution? Noticed an increase of FPS aswell 50-70.
Would really like an input if further updates or something would let me play in fullscreen again

Thank you guys!

Moonraker

garfsbastian wrote: »

So here are my results:

Installed again eso - nothing really changed
installed clean maverick - really nothing changed
Net by cable - Nothing that is relevant

So this is what I tried and it seems to smooth the stuttering/breaks -
putting the game in window mode and reducing the size of the window to an actual size of 14xx12 around that (laptop size..since the graphic i have are designed to a laptop..:c) its really disappointing that i have to play in such a tiny window and not taking advantage of the full screen, should be this my resolution? Noticed an increase of FPS aswell 50-70.
Would really like an input if further updates or something would let me play in fullscreen again

Thank you guys!

If you have done those updates then it looks like it is simply the limit of the graphics card for the game. There's nothing else to change that will help for this I think.

Reducing the window size is dynamic and will reduce graphic card load as it's drawing pixels to a smaller area and why it improves.

Really there is no need to have 50-60 FPS. Mostly it looks fine at 30-40 FPS so just get the balance of size, graphics quality and performance you want to go with that.

garfsbastian

Moonraker wrote: »

garfsbastian wrote: »

So here are my results:

Installed again eso - nothing really changed
installed clean maverick - really nothing changed
Net by cable - Nothing that is relevant

So this is what I tried and it seems to smooth the stuttering/breaks -
putting the game in window mode and reducing the size of the window to an actual size of 14xx12 around that (laptop size..since the graphic i have are designed to a laptop..:c) its really disappointing that i have to play in such a tiny window and not taking advantage of the full screen, should be this my resolution? Noticed an increase of FPS aswell 50-70.
Would really like an input if further updates or something would let me play in fullscreen again

Thank you guys!

If you have done those updates then it looks like it is simply the limit of the graphics card for the game. There's nothing else to change that will help for this I think.

Reducing the window size is dynamic and will reduce graphic card load as it's drawing pixels to a smaller area and why it improves.

Really there is no need to have 50-60 FPS. Mostly it looks fine at 30-40 FPS so just get the balance of size, graphics quality and performance you want to go with that.

Guess il just have to live with this small window ahah, if there is nothing left, since upgrading this kind of Imacs are nearly impossible

Yshaar

well you could upgrade your ram to 8 GB or play on bootcamp.

garfsbastian

Yshaar wrote: »

well you could upgrade your ram to 8 GB or play on bootcamp.

What difference would it make if i play on bootcamp?

I have 16gb of ram i guess its that right?
Memory 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3