Should the partner-to-powerlevel exploit be fixed?

7Montana7

Cooperating with others in an mmo? Must be an exploit!

It's a design choice, not an exploit.
Is it a little too effective? Maybe, but it favors those who interact with other players, so I'm 100% ok with it.

MasterSpatula

Not an exploit; working as intended.

Now, if you want to question the intent, then we can talk....

Catches_the_Sun

I think it's a pretty big stretch to call this an exploit. Isn't this the intended mechanic?

Imryll

Why would you want to discourage cooperative play? ZOS intentionally made your own products give less inspiration than studying someone else's work. How is taking advantage of this mechanic an exploit? It's like saying it's an exploit to press X because taking advantage of synergies is CHEATING, not intelligent gameplay.

jadeappleb16_ESO

I don't see how you could change this unless you take away the ability to deconstruct other characters stuff, as well as easy access to others crafted goods which can be stored and taken from a guild bank. In one of my guilds people regular stick both crafted and found stuff in our bank for others to break down. It's expected that each person adds if they take out. That whole mechanic would have to change. Three, four, five etc people could do this through a guild bank.

The trade partner thing being called an exploit is really just two people doing the same thing that could and is done through guild banks as well. Doubt this is an actual 'exploit' of the design mechanics.

andrantos

I don't see the need to do this. The only people who would be doing this are...

1) Misinformed players thinking they "have" to level their craft this way
2) Players near max who neglected to deconstruct loot and are trying to get their crafts up to snuff
3) Players who just want to max out craft immediately

If you deconstruct loot and toss in the occasional cheap buys on Guild Store, you should be able to keep your crafting ranks high enough to keep your crafting capability in-sync with your character level.

IE. Rank 10 enchanting allows you to make level 20-30ish enchants. Rank 15 enchanting allows you to make 30-40ish enchants. So those 5 ranks in enchant cover a span of almost 20 level!

That and the balance factor is that grinding out crafts like this costs money. You're literally throwing resources and gold out the window ( when you don't have to! )

doggie

Just remove it from white gear but keep it on green+

temjiu

I voted NO...but i have a Suggestion. the experience you gain from crafting solo needs to be boosted. it shouldn't be so much less then the partner option. partner option is about where it should be...solo crafting should really only be about half to 3/4 of the partner option.

Partner should give you enough of a bonus that its worth it...not so much so that its "THE" option for crafting. buff solo work, not reduce partner work.

Hakoke

FYI this is not an exploit. This is something by design. You get low insperation from things you craft to encourage you to interact with another human, even if very briefly.

Phaet

I don't think people are doing that. I asked around hoping to find someone I could trade crafted stuff but noone wanted.

Krym

I can already see it: tomorrow grouping with the 10% exp bonus is an "exploit"

Phaet wrote: »

I don't think people are doing that. I asked around hoping to find someone I could trade crafted stuff but noone wanted.

on the EU server I usually see people looking for a crafting buddy to exchange items. just announce what you wanna trade and someone will answer sooner or later. good idea is to ask in the zone of the level (no point looking for someone to exchange t5 stuff in a t1 zone)

lupusrex

I take issue with using the term "exploit" for this. An exploit is something that works, but not as intended. They clearly intended the higher inspiration for deconstructing drops or someone else's crafting.

The way I and many others see it is that reverse-engineering or taking apart something made by someone else will teach you more than if you sat there doing the same thing over and over, or taking apart your own creations. It only takes about 5-10 minutes to trade and deconstruct something of a particular tier and craft, so it's not really painful to do.

lichmeister

i voted no
it is simply the most efficient use of your materials. i've always felt that teamwork should should have a place in crafting as well as adventuring.
at the same time i think the xp ratios could be adjusted more in favour of crafting rather than deconstructing.
...and bonus inspiration for deconning an item that you havent researched yet

BloodLustedPeon

Not an "exploit" that's how it's meant to be.

jedensuscg

This has been how crafting as worked all through beta. Now granted, Zenimax has been HORRIBLE at fixing things that were found to be broken months ago in beta, but I don't think this was one of them. Crafting in general does not revolve around skill so much as it does ingredients. If player A power levels crafting in one day, and Player B does it in a week the results are the same. Both players A and B still need to get the right materials to make better quality items. Making 50 white daggers at a time will not get you an economic advantage over anyone else, as no one is buying white items.

As a general rule though, I think crafting, a few months after release, will be pretty crappy. You get enough skill points that you can max out several or all of the crafting as well as have several combat skill lines maxed out, so people will just be making their own stuff. The only trading that will be going in is the actual materials needed to make purple and legendary items. I think you will just make everything you need, but will have to find that 1k+ material to do it with.

Saute

This is far from being an exploit. If you watched any of the videos leading up to the game or followed the interviews, the devs wanted to reward crafters working together. The inspiration gains from teamwork should be viewed as the standard and the minimal increase by being solo and anti-social in a social game should be looked at as a minor penalty as opposed to it being the norm. I have actually made more online friends by trying to find craft buddies than I did in any mmo from quests and raids. I think the system works great as it is and again, as it was intended.

Kristov

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

And I really think it falls under the "exploit" category, because you're not meant to get huge inspiration gains from deconstructing crafted gear.

Because you said so?

I'm sorry, but I've never seen a developer ever, ever say that you're not supposed to get more inspiration from deconstructing gear than from crafting it. Never even seen them hint at that.

The fact that they every single piece of gear from 1-50 follows this trend flies in the face of your argument. I could see your argument if this was a single piece of gear, or even a single tier of gear but it's not.

Of course the system is working the way they intended it to. I would only believe this were an exploit if a developer came out and said so. It seems to be a design choice, and one that most of the crafters that responded to your poll are either in favor of or are indifferent about.

LadyInTheWater

It's silly to remove this.

I personally don't use it. I enjoy taking my time with things.

But, this system allows player to actually interact with one another. Here's a system that encourages two crafters to actually work together, for mutual benefit, and people want to remove it? And why?

I may not agree with it myself. I'm not a fan of powerleveling. In my opinion, the quicker I reach the cap on something, the quicker I'll get bored with it. So, I simply choose not to do it.

Everyone else can make that same choice; don't do it. Make your own stuff (like I do). Extract your own stuff (like I do). Occasionally purchase someone else's stuff and use it for training (like I do). But there's no reason to remove a system that encourages player interaction.

sly007

I wouldn't call it an exploit but i do think that the crafting experience needs to be reduced for deconstructing another person's crafted item. Think of it this way, a level 15 character trading with a Veteran Rank 10 character would be able to reach max level crafting in a few hours. The inspiration gained from deconstructing high level items are much more than lower levels.

Thus, you can power level someone's crafting by feeding them high level gear and items. Crafting should not be easy. Also, a few people were discussing how the mechanic seems realistic. I disagree. Crafting in real life is hard. Its not easy. For example, 200, 500, 1000 years ago, people didn't wake up blacksmiths. You had to become an apprentice for a few years before becoming good at the trade. I think crafting should take time. And i also think simply deconstructing gear you find as you level up should not put you crafting on par with your level. Crafting should require some sought of time dedicated to it.

I understand that it is annoying to have a crafting system which requires a more time to level but those are the best systems. It separates those that actually love to spend time to craft from those that love to grind to get their preferred items. With the current mechanic, everyone can just as easily max creating without spending little to no time actually crafting. Just break everything you find. I don't call that crafting.

Alephen

not that this thread matters. as soon as you call it an exploit, which it is not, you frame the discussion. the fact that even with this framing, the pole is against is telling.

if you want your pole to matter ask the question the right way, for example:

"do you think the inspiration gain for all crafted items should be the same as for self crafted items."

it asks the question without the inherent intellectual dishonesty of calling everyone that would disagree with you a cheater.

Shiva

I can live with it. I choose to work crafting solo as that to me is more realistic than chatting with a competitor and swapping made products to improve my competitor's abilities. I go for immersion and really could care less if others are wanting to power level crafting.

With that said, they need to increase the experience gain from working solo as it is HORRIBLY slow to level solo compared to the unrealistic partnering method.

Corithna

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

This is the exploit that allows crafters to get around the low inspiration and material gains they'd get from deconstructing their own items by trading back and forth with someone in order to powerlevel their craft.

The intention of building this into the game was to bring the die hard solo game player into a more social settings. Rewarding that is a pillar of this game as a whole. In fact when you look at this title overall this is a recurring theme. With over 20 million copies sold for skyrim, this is a worthwhile goal for this title to aspire toward. Secondly it has the intent of bringing the crafting folks who spend all day in town out into the big bad world to both gather their harvesting nodes and fight mobs for gear that they can then deconstruct in the same way as trading achieves.

So to put this more succinctly what you call an exploit, I call intended game play that is working as intended.

Jadeviper1974

I don't think it is an exploit, I think that is how it is designed to work.

Maverick827

I appreciate what Zenimax is trying to do, but I just don't think the functionality available in game supports this "trade to deconstruct" paradigm.

I'm trying to do it with a friend of mine, but even under the best scenarios (Mumble, text, etc.), it's still too tedious to coordinate. Not "difficult," not "challenging;" just "tedious."

Perhaps if they increased the amount of items you could trade at once, let more crafted items stack, or even introduced a new "joint crafting" interface that actually allows two crafters to work together in some way.

As it stands now, however, this is probably the biggest disappointment of the game for me. There's a grind, and then there's solo Enchanting.

Mori

instead of arguing if its a exploit or not, just send a ticket and ask if it is a exploit or not. i did that for the 3 hirelings on all 8 char - to get the mail and open them all on my main char for current tier materials. it is not a exploit, its clever use of game mechanics. and i got that in writing from zenimax.

KerinKor

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

My issue isn't the increased interaction, but I genuinely don't believe this is what the developers intended when they said crafters would benefit from working together. I think that comes into play more when we're talking about crafting set gear, etc.

As far as I can tell, deconstruction is meant to be done on items that you get in-game, and you aren't supposed to be huddling in a city trading back and forth just to powerlevel crafting.

I love how the term 'exploit' is often used when someone is complaining about something they can't do themselves.

'Interaction' takes place between two characters, it's asinine to try to differentiate between a 'friend' and a 'stranger' when it comes to determining the 'legitimacy' of an item when it comes to Inspiration from its deconstruction.

If it were only levelable by deconning items from world drops then the only people with level 50 crafts would be the boss botters!

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO

I voted yes, because this system is wrong. If I knew that deconstruction is the main Source for crafting leveling I would roll another alliance and power level to 50. Stack items I wanted to deconstruct in my bank for main character. I would save tons of time and gold for myself that way.

Deconstruction of self made items should give full crafting XP otherwise it is pointless to craft as solo player( in terms of crafting xp gains). If you do not have crafting buddy you are doomed... I see this as unneccessary and senseless punishment.

UnknownXV

I doubt it's what the developers intended. It's simply strange, and makes no sense.

Dragonheart013

Why is it strange? It encourages players to work together to improve the skill faster. It's all about fostering a more social environment, and plenty of people actually make new friends/crafting buddies through this. So I would say that it fits quite squarely in the concept of an MMO, which is all about the social side of gaming... If you didn't want to be social, you'd play a single player game.

Catches_the_Sun

UnknownXV wrote: »

I doubt it's what the developers intended. It's simply strange, and makes no sense.

/facepalm

Yes, it is the intended mechanic. Believe it or not, ESO has systems in place that encourage socialization, and this is one of them. You get even MORE experience breaking down the items that you find dropping from mobs? Would you call that an exploit too? It's a simple system for simple reasons. They want to reward the crafter that also adventures or socializes with the playerbase. I realize in other games, crafters could just hide in a corner with their stack of 1k leather & level up to max without ever speaking to anybody or doing anything useful for other players. Thankfully, ESO discourages that.