Deadly Bash extremely OP.

Jeremy_gelber_ESO

what you people dont get is sword and board isnt supposed to be dps. its support, its not supposed to outdamage bows or 2handers or dual wield. if your rolling sword and board and want dps. thats what class skills are for.

asking for dps with 1h/shield is like asking for resto staff to gibb things.

Jeremy_gelber_ESO

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Just looking at the mechanics of it, I dont think it's that big a deal, primarily because you're giving up the major damage bonuses you'd get with 2h or dual wield.
1h/shield doesnt do nearly as much damage as either of those with it's attacks, it doesnt get passive splash damage, it doesnt get auto crits, it doesnt get the passive boosts to weapon type either. Both 2h and dual wield give you effects like increased critical chance, increased damage, armor penetration, or bleed effects based on the type of weapon you're using through passives. I'd be willing to bet that the extra damage any of those adds up to is probably more than the bonus damage you get from deadly bash.

no it gives 40% armor and spell penetration far more than blunt for dual wield or 2hander
snares,
damage debuffs,
mutliple stuns
more armor,
and better blocking. its designed to be defensive and should be the lowest dps of all the weapons choices. sadly thats not the case

Morne30b16_ESO

Andy22 wrote: »

Morne30b16_ESO wrote: »

There is no way you can counter that, even if you use unmovable all you can do is run, you wont be able to do as much damage to them (because they are blocking constantly) as they will do to you.

I'm not a PvP expert at all, but how do the basher gets "immune" to vulcanic rune? If i ever try 1 vs 1 pvp, i would ofc slot Immovable + vulcanic rune.

problem is immovable only last for 8 seconds and is taxing on your stamina, shield charge may not knock you down but the bashers is were he needs to be. At this point you have two options, attack or run/escape. If you attack you have to try and reduce his stamina before you can do any significant damage, you will likely die before that happens

Cant really comment on volcanic rune i don't use it and ave not seen a blocking basher walk into one but you can see the rune on the ground. If you cast volcanic rune at the location were the enemy is does it work? or does the enemy have to walk into it? I know manifestation of terror (its similar but causes fear instead, night blade ability) only works if the enemy walks into it, if you cast it when hes standing next to you it doesn't work.

either way, bashing is still op

Drachenfier

Morne30b16_ESO wrote: »

Calgrissom wrote: »

What kills me about these post is most of this crying 99.9% is about PVP. A viable tank for PVE needs shield bash in most of the top VR dungeons as we have next to no slots to place damage abilities.

1h/ shield skills are supposed to be for tanking not dps.

Says who? That's kind of like saying Nightblades are only supposed to be assassins, or Templars are only supposed to be healers.

Morne30b16_ESO

Drachenfier wrote: »

Morne30b16_ESO wrote: »

Calgrissom wrote: »

What kills me about these post is most of this crying 99.9% is about PVP. A viable tank for PVE needs shield bash in most of the top VR dungeons as we have next to no slots to place damage abilities.

1h/ shield skills are supposed to be for tanking not dps.

Says who? That's kind of like saying Nightblades are only supposed to be assassins, or Templars are only supposed to be healers.

well its pretty obvious lol, that's what the skills lean towards, defensive posture deflects spells and buffs blocking, low slash reduces opponents weapon damage, ransack grants you extra armor, shielded assault grants you a damage shield.....not to mention the passives, extra armor rating, extra armor enchantment.....excluding shield bashing, what would you think its best use is for?

dont get me wrong, theres nothing wrong with a non tank using a shield and sword, just means that they can defend themselves better, its perfectly viable, but it shouldn't do more damage than two handed or dual wield because they sacrifice defense for power. 1 handed and shield can put out dps (without bashing) if you use them with class skills. 1 handed skills on there own wont.

tell me this, whats is the primary function of a shield?
What is the primary function of a sword?

you can use a screw driver to hammer nails into a wall but a hammer is always gonna do it better, the comparison you made with the classes is not the same at all.

why should a shield deliver more damage than the sword? dont you see whats wrong with that? its ridiculous the damage bashing does and the protection it provides. Someone who decides to puts an extra weapon in there off hand should see more of a benefit in doing so, instead of equipping a shield in their off hand which its primary function is for defense (or should be). No other weapon can deal that amount of damage (and so quickly) and provide that level of protection - its not balanced at all, its op

You can't have your cake and eat it

Maverick827

Morne30b16_ESO wrote: »

well its pretty obvious lol

The only thing that is obvious is that Zenimax was lying when they sold us on the idea that "you can play the way you like."

Drachenfier

Morne30b16_ESO wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Morne30b16_ESO wrote: »

Calgrissom wrote: »

What kills me about these post is most of this crying 99.9% is about PVP. A viable tank for PVE needs shield bash in most of the top VR dungeons as we have next to no slots to place damage abilities.

1h/ shield skills are supposed to be for tanking not dps.

Says who? That's kind of like saying Nightblades are only supposed to be assassins, or Templars are only supposed to be healers.

why should a shield deliver more damage than the sword? dont you see whats wrong with that? its ridiculous the damage bashing does and the protection it provides. Someone who decides to puts an extra weapon in there off hand should see more of a benefit in doing so, instead of equipping a shield in their off hand which its primary function is for defense (or should be). No other weapon can deal that amount of damage (and so quickly) and provide that level of protection - its not balanced at all, its op

You can't have your cake and eat it

Shield is an "extra weapon". someone who decides to put an extra sword in their offhand should not see more of a benefit, they should see equal benefit. 1h/s line is absolutely friggin terrible. The only single thing it has going for it is bash damage. I personally like it purely for aesthetics, otherwise I wouldn't touch it. It's pretty much awful.

Drachenfier

noobish double post

Jeremy_gelber_ESO

Drachenfier wrote: »

Morne30b16_ESO wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Morne30b16_ESO wrote: »

Calgrissom wrote: »

What kills me about these post is most of this crying 99.9% is about PVP. A viable tank for PVE needs shield bash in most of the top VR dungeons as we have next to no slots to place damage abilities.

1h/ shield skills are supposed to be for tanking not dps.

Says who? That's kind of like saying Nightblades are only supposed to be assassins, or Templars are only supposed to be healers.

why should a shield deliver more damage than the sword? dont you see whats wrong with that? its ridiculous the damage bashing does and the protection it provides. Someone who decides to puts an extra weapon in there off hand should see more of a benefit in doing so, instead of equipping a shield in their off hand which its primary function is for defense (or should be). No other weapon can deal that amount of damage (and so quickly) and provide that level of protection - its not balanced at all, its op

You can't have your cake and eat it

Shield is an "extra weapon". someone who decides to put an extra sword in their offhand should not see more of a benefit, they should see equal benefit. 1h/s line is absolutely friggin terrible. The only single thing it has going for it is bash damage. I personally like it purely for aesthetics, otherwise I wouldn't touch it. It's pretty much awful.

the fact that puncture adds a whopping 8 damage at lvl 39 is the problem. bashing for 800 is not the solution.

Morne30b16_ESO

Maverick827 wrote: »

Shield is an "extra weapon". someone who decides to put an extra sword in their offhand should not see more of a benefit, they should see equal benefit. 1h/s line is absolutely friggin terrible. The only single thing it has going for it is bash damage. I personally like it purely for aesthetics, otherwise I wouldn't touch it. It's pretty much awful.

lol it has an armor value, that's the benefit you get over other melee weapons, it cant have the same damage or it will be unfair and unbalanced. Its good to have a choice of weapons with different pros and cons. 1 hand/shield skill line has alot going for it, debuffs, spell deflection and one of the best charge to enemy attacks in the game. They are far from being terrible, you just need to use them right

previous tes games shields was classed as armor and 1hand/ shields were not as powerful and other melee weapons. Shields (historically) were used to protect you from weapons, they were not designed as weapons.

btw doesn't shield bashing all the time get boring for you? there's very little variation or skill involved, its all knockdown n bash bash bash bash - next target charge bash bash bash bash lol well at least your happy with the aesthetics

Maverick827

Morne30b16_ESO wrote: »

1 hand/shield skill line has alot going for it, debuffs, spell deflection and one of the best charge to enemy attacks in the game. They are far from being terrible, you just need to use them right

No, you're wrong. It's terrible without bash.

btw doesn't shield bashing all the time get boring for you? there's very little variation or skill involved, its all knockdown n bash bash bash bash - next target charge bash bash bash bash lol well at least your happy with the aesthetics

Holding my right mouse button and pressing my left mouse button 5 times per enemy is a lot more fun than pressing my left mouse button 20 times per enemy.

Morne30b16_ESO

Drachenfier wrote: »

Morne30b16_ESO wrote: »

Shield is an "extra weapon". someone who decides to put an extra sword in their offhand should not see more of a benefit, they should see equal benefit. 1h/s line is absolutely friggin terrible. The only single thing it has going for it is bash damage. I personally like it purely for aesthetics, otherwise I wouldn't touch it. It's pretty much awful.

o look, here's a quote from you from another thread

"You don't need weapon skills on your bar to level a weapon, you just need to have that weapon equipped. I don't even put a point into any 1h/s active skills until i get to level 20 and can get shield charge. "

i really don't think your in a position to say "1h/s line is absolutely friggin terrible."

you went for that build because you know fine its op i really doubt you "personally like it purely for aesthetics" lol

Maverick827 wrote: »

Morne30b16_ESO wrote: »

1 hand/shield skill line has alot going for it, debuffs, spell deflection and one of the best charge to enemy attacks in the game. They are far from being terrible, you just need to use them right

No, you're wrong. It's terrible without bash.

btw doesn't shield bashing all the time get boring for you? there's very little variation or skill involved, its all knockdown n bash bash bash bash - next target charge bash bash bash bash lol well at least your happy with the aesthetics

Holding my right mouse button and pressing my left mouse button 5 times per enemy is a lot more fun than pressing my left mouse button 20 times per enemy.

yea i bet you did the same, that why you have to press the mouse button 20 time, its because you don't have any skills from the 1h/s skill line lol

Drachenfier

Morne30b16_ESO wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

Shield is an "extra weapon". someone who decides to put an extra sword in their offhand should not see more of a benefit, they should see equal benefit. 1h/s line is absolutely friggin terrible. The only single thing it has going for it is bash damage. I personally like it purely for aesthetics, otherwise I wouldn't touch it. It's pretty much awful.

lol it has an armor value, that's the benefit you get over other melee weapons, it cant have the same damage or it will be unfair and unbalanced. Its good to have a choice of weapons with different pros and cons. 1 hand/shield skill line has alot going for it, debuffs, spell deflection and one of the best charge to enemy attacks in the game. They are far from being terrible, you just need to use them right

previous tes games shields was classed as armor and 1hand/ shields were not as powerful and other melee weapons. Shields (historically) were used to protect you from weapons, they were not designed as weapons.

btw doesn't shield bashing all the time get boring for you? there's very little variation or skill involved, its all knockdown n bash bash bash bash - next target charge bash bash bash bash lol well at least your happy with the aesthetics

I don't spam shield bash, not sure why you would assume I would. On my DK, i weave heavy, light, bash between abilities, on my Templar I almost never use it, don't need it.

Drachenfier

Morne30b16_ESO wrote: »

o look, here's a quote from you from another thread

"You don't need weapon skills on your bar to level a weapon, you just need to have that weapon equipped. I don't even put a point into any 1h/s active skills until i get to level 20 and can get shield charge. "

i really don't think your in a position to say "1h/s line is absolutely friggin terrible."

you went for that build because you know fine its op i really doubt you "personally like it purely for aesthetics" lol

Yea, what's your point? I don't buy any of the abilities because they suck, obviously I've used them all and been disappointed. That's not too hard to figure out, not sure why I need to spell it out for you.

Cogo

I am a pure tank. NONE damage skills, only tank and craft related.

The shield bash is just plain silly. I'd say its the next most overpowered thing, only beaten by the vampire bug, Both of these bugs they are fixing.

Look at patch 1.1. Shield bash goes back to what it suppose to do. Protect and as I understand it interupt. A LITTLE damage is ok. like 1/3 of what 1 normal slash with a weapon would be.

Since I choose pure tank and nothing damaging (I have a bow, with no skills), soloing for me is HARD to say the least. Mobs my level and above.....I'll die long before they do.

But but....if I am a tank and I can solo great now with the OVERPOWERED shield bash, why would I want to change it? Its great! Can kill anything!

I don't WANT to win anything just because I use something overpowered. I am wierd and want victories based on skill, teamwork, cooperation and sometimes pure luck, heh.

You may flame me for my last comment here, but shield bash isnt fixed yet. But I am not using it, other then to stun. Even if that ment I would level and kill muuuuch faster.

Thats me, I am weird that way that Id like to win on my own merits. Not because of an addon or overpowered skills. Then I am not the winner....the addons/overpower skill is.

Maverick827

If Shield Bash wasn't meant to do damage, there wouldn't be a passive whose sole purpose is to increase its damage.

How much damage it should do is one thing, but don't act like it was never intended to do a noticeable amount of damage.

Crescent

Calgrissom wrote: »

What kills me about these post is most of this crying 99.9% is about PVP. A viable tank for PVE needs shield bash in most of the top VR dungeons as we have next to no slots to place damage abilities.

Shield bash is just as OP in PvE.

Pretty much the two builds in PvE are either impulse spam destro staff or shield bash spamming.

So don't act like this is only a PvP concern.

Thechemicals

Blocking while Shield Attacking is very strong, but noone in that video was blocking to defend against it and all of them were clothe geared..... they didnt even CC this guy. They deserve to die.

Drachenfier

Crescent wrote: »

Calgrissom wrote: »

What kills me about these post is most of this crying 99.9% is about PVP. A viable tank for PVE needs shield bash in most of the top VR dungeons as we have next to no slots to place damage abilities.

Shield bash is just as OP in PvE.

Pretty much the two builds in PvE are either impulse spam destro staff or shield bash spamming.

So don't act like this is only a PvP concern.

Yea, its so OP i never use it on my templar, because I can spam Biting Jabs and wipe out packs of mobs in 1/10th of the time it will take you to do the same with shield bash, with the added bonus of interrupting my primary target, just like you.

Cogo

Maverick827 wrote: »

If Shield Bash wasn't meant to do damage, there wouldn't be a passive whose sole purpose is to increase its damage.

How much damage it should do is one thing, but don't act like it was never intended to do a noticeable amount of damage.

The damage I can do comes in:
- Weapon melee (not skill)
- Weapon taunt ability. Some damage but high stamina cost and its a taunt. Taunt do not stack. As a tank I need to keep the taunt ready.
- My damage shield

On my second set I use a bow. Mostly for pulling mobs, but the bow does A LOT more damage then a sword swing, unless I stun the enemy and do a big slash.

To give you some perspective (And yes, I could have chosen to pick damage skills. I didnt. I am going for full fatarsed orc tank.) the Doisha fight (Pre nerf) took me 8-10 mins and I was level 12. It's a level 8 quest.

I have a hard time solo, but dont whine about that, since its what I built.

YES, there are skills for increased damage when using a shield bash. But right now ONE shieldbash almost take half the mobs HP away. 1 sword slash takes maybe 5%, if that....

Anyway, it gets fixed in Patch 1.1

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

Cogo wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

If Shield Bash wasn't meant to do damage, there wouldn't be a passive whose sole purpose is to increase its damage.

How much damage it should do is one thing, but don't act like it was never intended to do a noticeable amount of damage.

The damage I can do comes in:
- Weapon melee (not skill)
- Weapon taunt ability. Some damage but high stamina cost and its a taunt. Taunt do not stack. As a tank I need to keep the taunt ready.
- My damage shield

On my second set I use a bow. Mostly for pulling mobs, but the bow does A LOT more damage then a sword swing, unless I stun the enemy and do a big slash.

To give you some perspective (And yes, I could have chosen to pick damage skills. I didnt. I am going for full fatarsed orc tank.) the Doisha fight (Pre nerf) took me 8-10 mins and I was level 12. It's a level 8 quest.

I have a hard time solo, but dont whine about that, since its what I built.

YES, there are skills for increased damage when using a shield bash. But right now ONE shieldbash almost take half the mobs HP away. 1 sword slash takes maybe 5%, if that....

Anyway, it gets fixed in Patch 1.1

I am agreed with you but I think shield bash isn't fixed in 1.1. :-(

bokki92neb18_ESO

Nerf or Delete shield+passiv...

coolest thing is its called 1h + shield but no one uses the 1hsword it should be called Shield abilitys. PvP is broken cuz of that

Drachenfier

bokki92neb18_ESO wrote: »

Nerf or Delete shield+passiv...

coolest thing is its called 1h + shield but no one uses the 1hsword it should be called Shield abilitys. PvP is broken cuz of that

Only against noobs and bad players. Lot of those here, it seems.

Baraz

Someone did that to me yesterday (the super fast shield bash) and I died before I ever got up. Think he hit me 4 times in all (my toon was a glass canon [700 armor, level 40], but still). To add insult to injury, it wasn't 4 normal shield bashes, but the kind where the animation seems much faster than normal.

I always felt like some DPS balance was positive to make all styles more viable, but here what is supposed to be my DPS offensive character (Nightblade) is petty in comparison to anyone using shield bash spam.

Maverick827

Baraz wrote: »

To add insult to injury, it wasn't 4 normal shield bashes, but the kind where the animation seems much faster than normal.

That's being fixed in 1.1.

Also, if he was VR1+ and you were level 40, you didn't stand a chance regardless of which ability he used. He would have auto attacked you to death, probably.