Mini PvP Games - PvP Arenas

Xen91

PVP OPTIONS! I like it. Introduce arenas! 2v2, 3v3, 5v5, 10v10! I support this idea 110%. Not that I don't enjoy the massive PvP we currently have. It's just that not everybody has computers capable of running that kind of battle once things pick up. More options will give more players opportunity to enjoy the pvp aspect of the game. Or, implement World PvP! Something that everybody can enjoy, lower end PCs or not.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

Xen91 wrote: »

PVP OPTIONS! I like it. Introduce arenas! 2v2, 3v3, 5v5, 10v10! I support this idea 110%.

WoW has all that. So do all the wow clones that have failed. Why, why, do you want ESO to be another failed WoW clone. There are a hundred mmo's that have that. We don't need ESO to be changed for the worse.

Xen91

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Xen91 wrote: »

PVP OPTIONS! I like it. Introduce arenas! 2v2, 3v3, 5v5, 10v10! I support this idea 110%.

WoW has all that. So do all the wow clones that have failed. Why, why, do you want ESO to be another failed WoW clone. There are a hundred mmo's that have that. We don't need ESO to be changed for the worse.

My friend, how wrong you are. Variety isn't a bad thing. For the closed minded people of the world, it's terrifying I'm sure. But for the rest of us who enjoy variety, it's a blessing. Options keep people from getting bored. Also, WoW PvP and ESO PvP are completely different. If ESO implemented an arena type PvP similar to the one WoW has, how would that change the game for the worst? It adds more competition to the game. Does too much competition kill the game? So long as one form of PvP does not offer better rewards than the other, then it really shouldn't matter. In fact, small arena based PvP could probably offer no rewards other than a ladder and most people may be satisfied. Variety doesn't kill games, lack of variety kills games. If everybody thought like you, the game would rarely change, which as a result would make the game repetitive and vapid.

Be more open minded. Don't compare ESO to other more established games. Let it be unique. Stop with the comparisons. ESO is ESO. WoW is WoW. Similar types of PvP content (CTF, KoH, etc.) will not change that.

MercyKilling

Xen91 wrote: »

My friend, how wrong you are. Variety isn't a bad thing. For the closed minded people of the world, it's terrifying I'm sure. But for the rest of us who enjoy variety, it's a blessing. Options keep people from getting bored. Also, WoW PvP and ESO PvP are completely different. If ESO implemented an arena type PvP similar to the one WoW has, how would that change the game for the worst? It adds more competition to the game. Does too much competition kill the game? So long as one form of PvP does not offer better rewards than the other, then it really shouldn't matter. In fact, small arena based PvP could probably offer no rewards other than a ladder and most people may be satisfied. Variety doesn't kill games, lack of variety kills games. If everybody thought like you, the game would rarely change, which as a result would make the game repetitive and vapid.

Be more open minded. Don't compare ESO to other more established games. Let it be unique. Stop with the comparisons. ESO is ESO. WoW is WoW. Similar types of PvP content (CTF, KoH, etc.) will not change that.

Quite ironic that you're espousing variety by propitiating a feature that EVERY OTHER GAME HAS.
This one is different and unique by not having arena based PvP..and you say "let it be unique"? IT ALREADY IS.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

MercyKilling wrote: »

Xen91 wrote: »

My friend, how wrong you are. Variety isn't a bad thing. For the closed minded people of the world, it's terrifying I'm sure. But for the rest of us who enjoy variety, it's a blessing. Options keep people from getting bored. Also, WoW PvP and ESO PvP are completely different. If ESO implemented an arena type PvP similar to the one WoW has, how would that change the game for the worst? It adds more competition to the game. Does too much competition kill the game? So long as one form of PvP does not offer better rewards than the other, then it really shouldn't matter. In fact, small arena based PvP could probably offer no rewards other than a ladder and most people may be satisfied. Variety doesn't kill games, lack of variety kills games. If everybody thought like you, the game would rarely change, which as a result would make the game repetitive and vapid.

Be more open minded. Don't compare ESO to other more established games. Let it be unique. Stop with the comparisons. ESO is ESO. WoW is WoW. Similar types of PvP content (CTF, KoH, etc.) will not change that.

Quite ironic that you're espousing variety by propitiating a feature that EVERY OTHER GAME HAS.
This one is different and unique by not having arena based PvP..and you say "let it be unique"? IT ALREADY IS.

+1 Awesome brother.

MercyKilling

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

MercyKilling wrote: »

Xen91 wrote: »

My friend, how wrong you are. Variety isn't a bad thing. For the closed minded people of the world, it's terrifying I'm sure. But for the rest of us who enjoy variety, it's a blessing. Options keep people from getting bored. Also, WoW PvP and ESO PvP are completely different. If ESO implemented an arena type PvP similar to the one WoW has, how would that change the game for the worst? It adds more competition to the game. Does too much competition kill the game? So long as one form of PvP does not offer better rewards than the other, then it really shouldn't matter. In fact, small arena based PvP could probably offer no rewards other than a ladder and most people may be satisfied. Variety doesn't kill games, lack of variety kills games. If everybody thought like you, the game would rarely change, which as a result would make the game repetitive and vapid.

Be more open minded. Don't compare ESO to other more established games. Let it be unique. Stop with the comparisons. ESO is ESO. WoW is WoW. Similar types of PvP content (CTF, KoH, etc.) will not change that.

Quite ironic that you're espousing variety by propitiating a feature that EVERY OTHER GAME HAS.
This one is different and unique by not having arena based PvP..and you say "let it be unique"? IT ALREADY IS.

+1 Awesome brother.

Why thank you.
The real irony of the whole thing?

I loathe PvP in any form, yet during the latter stages of beta testing, I actually gave it a try....and had fun. Something I'd not experienced in MMO PvP in close to a decade.
This doesn't mean I'm going to participate in this game's mass PvP, however. It's still distasteful to me, but at least it's not a blind, knee-jerk reaction any more. It's more I don't like the behavior it promotes or the attitude of what seems to be a majority of people that participate in it, which to me...is the far more valid reason.

Moobs

No arenas please! Pvp will be ruined when they start balancing classes around small scale pvp.

Xen91

MercyKilling wrote: »

Xen91 wrote: »

My friend, how wrong you are. Variety isn't a bad thing. For the closed minded people of the world, it's terrifying I'm sure. But for the rest of us who enjoy variety, it's a blessing. Options keep people from getting bored. Also, WoW PvP and ESO PvP are completely different. If ESO implemented an arena type PvP similar to the one WoW has, how would that change the game for the worst? It adds more competition to the game. Does too much competition kill the game? So long as one form of PvP does not offer better rewards than the other, then it really shouldn't matter. In fact, small arena based PvP could probably offer no rewards other than a ladder and most people may be satisfied. Variety doesn't kill games, lack of variety kills games. If everybody thought like you, the game would rarely change, which as a result would make the game repetitive and vapid.

Be more open minded. Don't compare ESO to other more established games. Let it be unique. Stop with the comparisons. ESO is ESO. WoW is WoW. Similar types of PvP content (CTF, KoH, etc.) will not change that.

Quite ironic that you're espousing variety by propitiating a feature that EVERY OTHER GAME HAS.
This one is different and unique by not having arena based PvP..and you say "let it be unique"? IT ALREADY IS.

My friend, my point has completely eluded you. My point in more direct terms is that ESO will always be unique. It is and always will be it's own game. By implementing arena based PvP, all they'd be doing is enriching and expanding the PvP experience available to players. I never once said that they had to be exactly like WoW's arena. A 2v2 team DM. I'm sure they're creative enough to make a twist here and there (Not that it'd be necessary. I still stand by my earlier post that having Arenas similar to WoW's is not a bad thing). Small team objectives etc. will not damage this game in any way. As it stands, people who do not have $600+ computers struggle to enjoy the full PvP experience. THAT in itself is an issue that must be corrected lest this game lose the subscribers who are in that boat.

Your argument to leave the game's PvP alone is not only selfish but foolish. Instead of jumping on the "Don't be like WoW" bandwagon, try thinking for yourself and putting yourself in the shoe's of those who are not fortunate enough to have a PC capable of experiencing the game the way you and I do.

With that being said, your argument is invalid.
:disagree:

MercyKilling

At what point did I say "don't be like WoW"?
None, that's what. I merely pointed out that literally every other MMO out there has some variation of arena style PvP in them.
The truly unique one is right here....and in order for it to STAY unique...it should remain as it is.
I reiterate: I'm not saying don't be like WoW....I'm saying "Don't be like every other game out there."

Also, if someone has problems with framerates in mass scale PvP(which I ran into during beta) there is an easy solution.

Turn graphical settings down. Works like a charm, and every time.
However, that is a sentence designed to distract and obfuscate.

My statement(it's not an argument) remains valid. The game already is unique, and arena-style PvP is not necessary. Furthermore, it's a waste of developer time and resource.

Xen91

Ah, you make a good point. You never specified WoW.
But at the same time you're incorrect in saying that it's a statement not an argument. The second you decided to disagree with my post SPECIFICALLY, you turned this into a debate. Making your post an argument. I can pull specific definitions for you if you'd like.
Back on topic:
Regardless, if you take a minute and search "FPS", you'll see that your 'easy fix' doesn't always work. The number of posts relating to FPS drops in PvP battles alone testifies to that. I simply fail to see how adding variety and accommodating players who do not have PCs capable of running at a decent FPS during large scale pvp battles could possibly be viewed as a bad thing.

Also, I fail to see how expanding the game and satisfying players is a "Waste of developer time and resource". Keeping the community happy by appealing to their needs is vital. Not wants, needs!

These players need a resolution to this problem outside of spending $

Sorry almost forgot!!

Starnes

I'm pretty sure there'll be some form of pvp arena. This is Elder Scrolls, arenas are definitely a part of the genre and there are arena npc's already set in the game.

The developers have also hinted at being open to the idea if there's a demand for it and we have seen a constant demand for it.

Personally I just want to see some party vs party pvp.

Xen91

Starnes wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there'll be some form of pvp arena. This is Elder Scrolls, arenas are definitely a part of the genre and there are arena npc's already set in the game.

The developers have also hinted at being open to the idea if there's a demand for it and we have seen a constant demand for it.

Personally I just want to see some party vs party pvp.

And I agree! As do many other open minded people.

gokhanuzmez

Starnes wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there'll be some form of pvp arena. This is Elder Scrolls, arenas are definitely a part of the genre and there are arena npc's already set in the game.

The developers have also hinted at being open to the idea if there's a demand for it and we have seen a constant demand for it.

Personally I just want to see some party vs party pvp.

I do not see any upcoming note from directors or anything?

Are there anything official towards these kind of player versus player battles?

knightblaster

Instanced small group PvP depopulates world PvP almost overnight because almost all PvPers prefer it due to the importance of the individual skill cap in that context. Happened in Warhammer. Happened in WoW. It just happens. PvPers, if they have a choice, vastly prefer small group instanced PvP. That's why it's not surprising to see them asking for it. The trouble is that if it comes along, it kills world PvP.

Some will say "well that's fine, if that's what people prefer, why not?" The reason is that the game is centered around Cyrodiil PvP. Introducing a gameplay element that would kill that, simply because too many PvP oriented players would prefer it almost exclusively, is a bad idea -- it totally reorients the game away from its intended design.

And that leaves aside all the balancing brouhaha that is inevitable once small group instanced PvP becomes common -- something that impacts the gameplay of everyone to satisfy the afficionados of small group instanced PvP.

No thanks.

MercyKilling

Xen91 wrote: »

Keeping the community happy by appealing to their needs is vital. Not wants, needs!

I agree with this statement.
However, I do not agree that arena style PvP is a need. It's a want. A desire. The game and it's players do not NEED an arena to play the game.

You are confusing a want with a need.

gokhanuzmez

knightblaster wrote: »

Instanced small group PvP depopulates world PvP almost overnight because almost all PvPers prefer it due to the importance of the individual skill cap in that context. Happened in Warhammer. Happened in WoW. It just happens. PvPers, if they have a choice, vastly prefer small group instanced PvP. That's why it's not surprising to see them asking for it. The trouble is that if it comes along, it kills world PvP.

Some will say "well that's fine, if that's what people prefer, why not?" The reason is that the game is centered around Cyrodiil PvP. Introducing a gameplay element that would kill that, simply because too many PvP oriented players would prefer it almost exclusively, is a bad idea -- it totally reorients the game away from its intended design.

And that leaves aside all the balancing brouhaha that is inevitable once small group instanced PvP becomes common -- something that impacts the gameplay of everyone to satisfy the afficionados of small group instanced PvP.

No thanks.

I will have to disagree on this one because if you provide different tiers of loots and awards for participants in these different pvp areas, than people will go.

Like you would only get certain amount of cyrodiil points from a set battle ground match, or only green-blue item vendors.

You can provide all goodies in Cyrodiil and that gives OPTIONS to player, its a mega server, there is no issue with people attending.

The issue is PEOPLE ARE ATTENDING, and creates 100 + ppl combat that just freezes most of the computers and plus your talent of pvp is not there, you just follow the crowd.

It is good but should not stop developers giving more options.
The day they stop working on variety, players will find something else to play which happens all to MMOs. ( doesnt happen to wow, yea I dont get that LOL )

Xen91

MercyKilling wrote: »

Xen91 wrote: »

Keeping the community happy by appealing to their needs is vital. Not wants, needs!

I agree with this statement.
However, I do not agree that arena style PvP is a need. It's a want. A desire. The game and it's players do not NEED an arena to play the game.

You are confusing a want with a need.

Again, you're wrong.

" I simply fail to see how adding variety and accommodating players who do not have PCs capable of running at a decent FPS during large scale pvp battles could possibly be viewed as a bad thing."

The problem with the current PvP style is that not everybody can enjoy it. Not everybody is CAPABLE of participating in it. Those not fortunate enough to have a PC powerful enough to enjoy Cyrodiil PvP are left with only the PvE aspect of the game. Which opens ESO up to the risk of losing those subscribers to a game such as WoW where they CAN enjoy PvP. That's why I said that there's a need for variety. Whether that be small scale arena based PvP, or small teams, OR EVEN actual Wold PvP (Which is the least likely to happen for what should be obvious).

I don't see how I can make myself anymore clear without sounding like a broken record. I don't side with the people who WANT arenas, I can care less either way about anybody's wants. It's about being practical.

politesir

MercyKilling wrote: »

I do not fear competition...I detest it. It's brought out the worst in people...and for no good reason.
One person sitting on top is nowhere near as good as two or more people putting out their best efforts to accomplish a goal. Cooperation is king, regardless of how you want to think.

This is simply pathetic. So just because you can't handle a little competition (by the way you do realize this is an MMO right..?), you are actually telling others that their ideas are invalid and that "devs" said no small scale PvP. I'm not sure what you read, but I think the devs are willing to add all sorts of new content to the game. Apparantly you can't handle some adult competition, so you want to stick wtih cyrodiil. Why don't you go back to runescape? there's no competition you just click on trees all day and everyone is happy?

politesir

knightblaster wrote: »

Instanced small group PvP depopulates world PvP almost overnight because almost all PvPers prefer it due to the importance of the individual skill cap in that context. Happened in Warhammer. Happened in WoW. It just happens. PvPers, if they have a choice, vastly prefer small group instanced PvP. That's why it's not surprising to see them asking for it. The trouble is that if it comes along, it kills world PvP.

Some will say "well that's fine, if that's what people prefer, why not?" The reason is that the game is centered around Cyrodiil PvP. Introducing a gameplay element that would kill that, simply because too many PvP oriented players would prefer it almost exclusively, is a bad idea -- it totally reorients the game away from its intended design.

And that leaves aside all the balancing brouhaha that is inevitable once small group instanced PvP becomes common -- something that impacts the gameplay of everyone to satisfy the afficionados of small group instanced PvP.

No thanks.

so you're forcing people to play boring cyrodiil because you're afraid if they release small scale PvP everyone will prefer it and you'll be alone with your horse? When did the ESO community start to get this stupid?

Forcing cyrodiil to be the only form of PvP is NOT the intended design. Where are you getting your information?