Zenimax Dungeon chests need to when opened be rollled for by entire group need or greed like/MMO's

Glithanes

look as others have stated as it stands 1 player can troll loot all the chests in 1 dungeon and bosses may drop no loot, so the chests are the only form of loot.

See the troll thread and troll video for step by step explain of how bad the current system.
To solve this as soon chest is open it should have all the items be rolled for need or greed like other MMO's so 1 player cant open all the chests keep all the loot meanwhile rest group gets nothing as well as don't even see what items he gets from the chests.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLBHjwCw088#t=225


the Video Zenimax explains how screwed your system is please fix it, everyone should be to get there share of loot not just 1 player.

also the 2-3 exp points per mob kill needs to be fixed asap as well.

kongkim

Just no.. all in life don't need to be fair. Its fun to see if you ca nget it before others. Also it put i a little excitment if you get the chests.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

Still it would be common courtesy to share loot at least people are already perma ignoring or blacklisting players for chest hugging and i guess if i encountered that kind of player in my team id either kick it or blacklist it so i never heal him again

Ragnar_Lodbrok

Glithanes wrote: »

look as others have stated as it stands 1 player can troll loot all the chests in 1 dungeon and bosses may drop no loot, so the chests are the only form of loot.

See the troll thread and troll video for step by step explain of how bad the current system.
To solve this as soon chest is open it should have all the items be rolled for need or greed like other MMO's so 1 player cant open all the chests keep all the loot meanwhile rest group gets nothing as well as don't even see what items he gets from the chests.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLBHjwCw088#t=225


the Video Zenimax explains how screwed your system is please fix it, everyone should be to get there share of loot not just 1 player.

also the 2-3 exp points per mob kill needs to be fixed asap as well.

Thats what happens when you pug dungeons rather than use friends/guildies. Nothing is broken.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

Just blacklist them from your future dungeon runs... good luck for them finding healers or tank once they are on everyone list

Ahnuk

They could just remove the chests from the group dungeons and add the loot to the drop pool used by the system already in place.

l-wilson-1986b16_ESO

kongkim wrote: »

Just no.. all in life don't need to be fair. Its fun to see if you ca nget it before others. Also it put i a little excitment if you get the chests.

I don't play games to duplicate life, I use them as an escape from the tedium of a hard days work and a chance to relax and have fun. Time wasted dealing with selfish idiots is not relaxing and not fun. It also kills PVE because people end up with such a bad opinion of the loot system that they avoid entering dungeons.

The human condition is one of greed and conditions need to be set in place so that peoples ability to be selfish and greedy are limited.

I am an avid PvE player who has completed end game raiding in most MMO's over the last ten years so I am certainly far from inexperienced in end game content and whilst I find pve in this game to be greatly enjoyable I believe the looting structure requires a great deal of work.

Additionally when someone is abusive then the group should have the rights to remove this player from their instance, and stealing everything is a form of abuse.

The game is too young to have established guilds with alot of trust unless you are lucky enough to have come here with friends from another game. If you have that luxury then I am really happy for you but alot of us don't and putting people off a potentially outstanding aspect of the game so early isn't a great idea.

A simple rolling mechanism should be put in place rather than individual loot, I am tired of getting staves when someone may have got a shield I could use, and after trading items I dont need and getting nothing back in return I really don't see much options available for us guildless souls other than a restructuring of the system.

eNumbra

kongkim wrote: »

Just no.. all in life don't need to be fair.

Life's not fair.

That's why we play video games.
If you honestly think this behavior is fun, you don't belong in multiplayer gaming.

Ahnuk

I think they were trying to avoid the roll systems seen on other games of the genre for various reasons. One of the reasons being the power given to a player to be able to "ninja roll" the loot as i have seen happening so many times before.

I also think that the fatigue caused by not getting the right items for your class is more related to the poor economic system (ways to sell or trade the looted items) than with the loot system itself.

Glithanes

One of the reasons being the power given to a player to be able to "ninja roll" the loot as i have seen happening so many times before.

Ninja roll what are ya talking about?

I have been playing muds then after that MMO's for the last 14 years over 13 MMO's and 8 alpha tests never once seen or heard what ya talking about?

Sanspoof

Ahnuk wrote: »

They could just remove the chests from the group dungeons and add the loot to the drop pool used by the system already in place.

Yeah, chest hogging aside, it screws up the pace to have to wait for someone to open a chest in every turn. This mechanic really has no place inside a dungeon.

Ahnuk

The expression is commonly used when a player in a group usually blinded by greed, wins a dice roll on an BOP (bind on pickup) item and thus, gets an item that he or she can't even weild or wear when there were other players in the same roll that could and wanted the item.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

Chests in dungeons are precious especially end game coldharbor... I grind my exp from them. I'm fine with chest in dungeon but they should be lootable by every one not just the first person to loot them and by that i mean one guy can open the chest then unlike right now it close lock again and another can open it until all 4 have opened upon which it disappear.

Guild Wars 2 resource node system is a far better choice then this one because it prevent this very kind of problem as the resource are bound to your account alone which means 30 players can loot the same chest and it will still be there but once you've looted it you no longer see it. This is one of the reason why guild wars 2 still got one of the friendliest community... no ninja.

xshadowclawzz12

I absolutely HATE that you aren't guaranteed to get at least a green item from a boss... Seriously, I did a world boss 4 times and the only thing I got was maybe a white item, 2 gold and some kind of potion. Pretty normal loot. 2 of those times I just got 1 or 2 gold and that was it, nothing more. Had heard of someone even getting a blue item from that boss but it sucks that it's so rare.
I love that feeling after you've finally killed a big boss to click on it and see what cool items you've gotten in a dungeon (or just a world boss). But now I don't have that anymore because I know that most likely i'll just get the same *** I'd get from normal mobs. Take the good loot from the chests in dungeons and put them on monsters. Or at least make it so that everyone can loot chests in dungeons.

kongkim wrote: »

Just no.. all in life don't need to be fair. Its fun to see if you ca nget it before others. Also it put i a little excitment if you get the chests.

"life is unfair" that is an incredibly negative view of life. So you are saying that if something is unfair, and can be done something about, then let's not do it because life's unfair? "Oh look at the poor children in africa, but let's do nothing about it because life is unfair!", "Doctor, My leg is broken and I need treatment" "Well I could do something about it but... life's unfair so I won't". That was two extreme versions of your way of thinking but you get my point. You simply can't have that outlook on things such as game reviewing. I mean what if zenimax was like that? "Hmm, so you say people don't want another wow clone? Well, life's unfair so let's make one even though we don't need to and can make an awesome game !". "All in life don't need to be fair", No it doesn't need to be fair, but if I can do something to make it fair if I have the possebillity, I will. Just what are you thinking with?

reggielee

no to need/greed roll just make the chests rng per person, everyone gets to loot and take their chances. most fair way......................... need/greed/ ruin many a game out there

Tetujin

Yeah per person chests is an alternative, there are probably others I'm sure with a bit of imagination, doesn't have to be a roll--though I don't see the harm in a roll system. I don't like the idea that you have to actually work against each other in a scenario where you are meant to be working cooperatively.

If you could attack and kill each other when they start to open a chest to enforce the will of the majority, that would be one step better, which just shows that there is something wrong with it as is.

TheRedMage

I know this is going to sound arrogent/standoffish, and that isn't my intention.

Just because you didn't get a blue as loot, doesn't mean that no blue was dropped. It also doesn't mean that loot didn't drop, as i usually am swimming in filled soul gems on my level 15 characters from the drops.

On the chest part: Part of me feels that everyone should get loot from it (I know, stupid idea) or that dungeon chests should be individual, like how all other lootable items like sacks and such are.

Libertine

i didnt do a lot of dungeons so far because they all had the inevitable tendency to bug at some point but this does explain the lack of loot i got when the bosses actually worked.

i hate lockpicking...did so in all previous ES games and ESO is no different in that respect...

i dont get why zenimax would do this ... no guaranteed loot on the bosses..it boggles the mind...the chest thing just adds insult to injury if you ask me. leave the chests in there but make the actual bosses the main source of dungeon loot.

AlchemyDevil

reggielee wrote: »

no to need/greed roll just make the chests rng per person, everyone gets to loot and take their chances. most fair way......................... need/greed/ ruin many a game out there

I agree with this solution.

Libertine

AlchemyDevil wrote: »

reggielee wrote: »

no to need/greed roll just make the chests rng per person, everyone gets to loot and take their chances. most fair way......................... need/greed/ ruin many a game out there

I agree with this solution.

i think what we ALL can agree on is that the way it currently works needs to revised asap

Nox_Aeterna

I dont really like the idea of the roll , i think they should just make like GW2 , where everyone would be able to each get their on chests.

ofc , i mean inside the dungeon.

otherwise yeah , being the smart guy is actually the best position to be in , and dont kid yourself , ignoring one guy wont change anything , we play in megaservers , that guy will probably NEVER see those players ingame again even without your blocking him.

Nox_Aeterna

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

I dont really like the idea of the roll , i think they should just make like GW2 , where everyone would be able to each get their on chests.

ofc , i mean inside the dungeon.

otherwise yeah , being the smart guy is actually the best position to be in , and dont kid yourself , ignoring one guy wont change anything , we play in megaservers , that guy will probably NEVER see those players ingame again even without you blocking him.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

the world is smaller then youd like to think I ran several time in people I actualy ignored

Winterstrife

IMO, give more incentive to run dungeons, as it stands Public Dungeons (if it wasn't camped to hell with bots) turns out more loot/hr than a 4-man dungeon (bosses especially), so really isn't any reason to run dungeons (pre-veteran) besides for the quest completion & skill point. No guranteed loot (green minimum) for bosses is just bad.

As for the chest looting while everyone else is fighting the boss, make it so that chest become unlootable as soon as a boss is engaged in combat.

Cheatingdeath23

I'm confused, because I am level 13 and get great loot from Spindleclutch. From bosses and chests.

Although it is really difficult, I want to be able to open a chest and call over the person for it but that never works properly. Just yesterday I got a blue level necklace (4 magicka regen), blue iron gauntlets and blue something else in one dungeon run.

liquid_wolf

The chest loot system isn't fair.

But it is fun. Getting to the chest before other players, having the stress of finishing it before the next pull, and not failing it so someone else takes it from you.

When I see people darting for chests... I push on ahead and position myself next to one for the next fight.

Most players understand "This is mine!".

The few times someone has stolen a chest I clearly had claimed, they died the next 5 pulls. I hope that chest was worth their repair bill.

Oh... I'm a healer/tank. So most people let me have the chests I stand next to without much argument.

I don't take them all, but I do make sure I get a few.

Ciedoc

Ahnuk wrote: »

I think they were trying to avoid the roll systems seen on other games of the genre for various reasons. One of the reasons being the power given to a player to be able to "ninja roll" the loot as i have seen happening so many times before.

So you do a simple roll system...roll or pass. No need or greed since technically any player can use any armor / weapon / stat. Would give everyone a chance at any green or better item. Or better yet, add the chest loot table to boss / mini boss loot tables and get rid of the chests all together.

liquid_wolf

Oh... My thoughts on Roll/Need/Greed (RNG)...

I don't like it. People change with RNG, and the whole game starts to feel different.
"Run this many times, with these classes, and get this loot before the new content comes out. Complain about the RNG System Gods not giving you what you want."

Keeping the loot random, having the players cooperate, and behave or get booted/blacklisted FEELS better.

Knowing that players HAVE to think about whether they are getting seen as bad members seems to be changing the PUG.

I don't like the way RNG FEELS, despite how FAIR it might be. When you implement RNG, you take away from the players.

Now... with our crafting system. IF crafting is the way to get the best gear/weapons in the game, then I have no problem with chests being random and not given a roll to be "fair".

Honestly... if one person loots every single chest in a dungeon, and gets a purple in every single chest... then I don't really care because those purples are things I can craft anyway. Or have someone craft for me.

I want to avoid RNG, because I want to keep the items in chests the same as what can be crafted.

Doesn't mean we can't try a different system... phased individual chests maybe? But then you will reduce the overall number of chests in the dungeon since every player gets them.

At this point there appear to be 15-20ish chests per dungeon. that is 3-5 chests per person IF the whole group cooperates and discovers them all.

So group with people you can work with, and trust. Be social, and communicate. Make friends, and do more dungeons with them.

RNG and trying to make things "fair" completely removes those aspects from the game.

Ithug

TOTAL DISAGREE, sometime my party member dont ever loot chest or heavy bags. Like they are just blind (or dumb). And personnaly if I loot too many chest I try to let some for other party members.

Cheatingdeath23

Ithug wrote: »

TOTAL DISAGREE, sometime my party member dont ever loot chest or heavy bags. Like they are just blind (or dumb). And personnaly if I loot too many chest I try to let some for other party members.

Yeah, maybe we need a reminder of etiquette.

I was in a dungeon with my wife and 2 randoms yesterday, 3 of us were running around grabbing chests (and being as fair as we could about it) and the 4th kept complaining that we were taking too long. Maybe he didn't see the chests or didn't care, but I got better loot from the chests than from the boss.

When I try to call individual people over to get what I leave from the chest (blue level bow for an archer, blue level staff for a mage, etc.), it causes more hassle and delay and I've stopped doing it. The guy I'm intending to give it to never ends up with it, so why shouldn't I?

Maybe someone can draft up an etiquette guide and at the end of every dungeon, people can trade 1 for 1 for items. Doesn't stop the trolls, but would allow a nice group to share items (I've only been in groups with nice people so far).

Pahebe

Cmon, you don't care if you go premade with friends, you simply assign chests/bags. Need/greed is worst idea ever. I like it how it is now - and how loot is not bound.