Pre-emptive "Don't nerf PVE" thread

South_of_Heaven

I love this game and it's difficulty (although at times I find it too easy). I really don't want to see ZOS following the same "carrot on a stick" tactics other companies follow. "Tactical" nerfing is a policy of almost every mmorpg out there and it's terrible.

Every time before a new patch hits or some time passes after a content update or release, companies tend to nerf the content undermining everything players did up until that point and making the content ridiculously easy.

The two most obvious examples are bosses/progress walls and leveling pace. Bosses are nerfed to the ground in order to be "accessible" by everyone. Leveling pace is made faster undermining both what the player did and the content itself.

Let us never see this kind of thing in this beautiful game.

Hodorius

Agreed!
At least wait until the average player hit lvl 50 before making it as hard as eating candy.

Greyhaven

I just don't see it happening because TESO isn't about end game or "winning" and honestly as a dirty casual I can attest the game is already accessible enough.

amysue23_ESO

Except that for an MMO, you should never be FORCED to solo any quest. Period.

Memnock

You still grinding about the solo stuff huh ?! this is a story driven MMO , part of the game is playing your own class story , you know... just like in the TESO games, which this game's lore and combat is based on... If you do not enjoy the solo stuff , no one is forcing you to do it , there are alternatives to getting to max level through zone quests , like going to Cyrodill and completing the dailies there and doing pvp I enjoy a little of both To be honest , i actually like the fact that there are areas where only my character is allowed to go , i mean have to been to public dungeons and delves lately ? there is always a horde of idi... players who are farming the crap out of the end boss , and you got to be lightning fast to get 1 hit in so you get the achievement , cuz if you are not , then the boss melts in under 8 seconds , seriously , it takes 8 -10 seconds tops to melt a dungeon boss , with an average group of 6-8 players circling the spawn point like a bunch of sharks.
So yeah... i would be extremely pissed off , if my personal quest would be filled with a bunch of dude running around and not allowing me to finish my class story.

@ the OP , sorry for ranting off toppic , but the solo questing thing just got my attention

Genev

Actually, if you want access to the VR area, you HAVE to do the main solo quest.

Zordrage

123145161% agree

DON'T NERF the PvE Content after a Few bigger content update......

South_of_Heaven

amysue23_ESO wrote: »

Except that for an MMO, you should never be FORCED to solo any quest. Period.

Err... how is that relevant to this thread again?

Cydramech

Exactly, OP.

It's time an MMO quits nerfing its PvE content. Let's start here. ('sides, if you're a casual player - your problem is with time constraints, not the difficulty.)

South_of_Heaven

Cydramech wrote: »

Exactly, OP.
It's time an MMO quits nerfing its PvE content. Let's start here. ('sides, if you're a casual player - your problem is with time constraints, not the difficulty.)

Greyhaven wrote: »

I just don't see it happening because TESO isn't about end game or "winning" and honestly as a dirty casual I can attest the game is already accessible enough.

Heh, now that people reached Molag Bal and Mannimarco, "omg nerf" threads keep popping up and I hope ZOS understands that most of these are "rage of the moment" kind of threads and that the majority appreciates the difficulty.

South_of_Heaven

edited

D00fD1ll4

I 100% agree with the OP.

Also, I don't even think that it is *this* difficult. Doable even for a casual like me, if played right.

What I love the most:

No Pay to Win!

Ysne58

Instead of nerfing -- allow grouping for the forced solo content... You won't be getting all these complaints about people (including me, I admit) who have extreme difficulty with some, but not all of the forced solo content.

I'd much prefer grouping instead of nerfing -- that way the people who can handle this solo, can do it solo --

Sakiri

Im just incredibly worried the friend of mine Im playing with(that already dies constantly) isnt going to be able to finish the storyline.

Not the most skilled player to begin with and having dialysis hookups in his left arm makes using his left hand a pain in the butt sometimes. Hes going to be pissed if he cant join me for VR content because theres no way to brute force by outleveling the last few quests.

Ysne58

It is possible to get into coldharbour by teleporting to another player there. Just have him/her follow you around until he/she is able to pick up the main quest. At least that is how I got there during the long term beta. It should still work.

Lysistrata

I agree, to a point. A few of the boss battles are a little too difficult (like Norion in Tanzelwil - I got stuck on him for whole weekends in the beta and only just defeated him for the first time today, felt damn good), but in the main, it's nothing unmanageable.

F1MBULW1NT3R

I'm one of the people seriously hoping for a PvE nerf, I'm currently stuck on the Valley of Blades quest as well as Songs of Sovngarde. I last tried Valley of Blades at level 36 and died 12+ times in the process with my armor wearing out from near full condition to completely broken. I killed the Titan without issue, but the skeletons gave me hell, after dying several times and only managing to kill the first 2 skeletons that spawn on their own, I decided to quit and wait till at least level 40, so I went back to eastmarch for some more quests, and eventually made it to the Songs of Sovngarde quest, where I wore out a freshly crafted set of level 38 armor, dying several times to Fildgor Orcthane, decided to look around on the internet for tricks to beat him, saw a youtube video of someone kiting him with a bow and decided to try that method. I didn't have a bow on my character so settled for a destruction staff which I had looted from some mobs earlier in the quest, the fight was going well, I got his health down to about 20%, then he killed me with an off-screen ranged melee attack from behind with no warning. I've decided to cancel my subscription for now, a real shame as I had thoroughly enjoyed the game up until this point. If the PvE gets a rebalance I'll renew my subcription, otherwise ESO is over for me once my included 30 days ends.

Darastix

IMO the easiest solution would be to allow players to get help from their friends, this is a Massive Multiplayer Game after all. Forcing players into a Solo experience, especially against elite level mobs is ridiculous. So far I've been lucky with killing those mobs myself, but its frustrating listening to some of my friends struggle repeatedly, and knowing that i cannot help them.

Zordrage

Darastix wrote: »

IMO the easiest solution would be to allow players to get help from their friends, this is a Massive Multiplayer Game after all. Forcing players into a Solo experience, especially against elite level mobs is ridiculous. So far I've been lucky with killing those mobs myself, but its frustrating listening to some of my friends struggle repeatedly, and knowing that i cannot help them.

Make and give them Better gear....
or help them level up in the open world a bit befor going for that quest.....

these bosses aren't realy that hard........

but i agree there should not be Solo ONLY content in a MMO game

there should be solo content but not solo only ones......

twisteddm

While I also enjoy the challenge (nothing beats the thrill of a close win against a boss) and I agree that the overall difficulty shouldn't be nerfed, I do feel that either A) Grouping in solo content or B ) an adjustable difficulty option is implemented (for the solo missions only) for those who aren't skilled enough or suffer some form of disability that makes playing the game hard enough already.

My girlfriend is one of these people, she lacks the reflexes and coordination necessary for some of the more challenging fights and she becomes easily frustrated by losing in (to her) an unfair manner. In all of the solo content missions so far, I have had to beat the final boss for her, something that is seriously dampening her enthusiasm for a game she has been hoping for since first setting eyes on Skyrim.

Being able to enter her instance to help out, or having her complete an easier version of the instance would in no way undermine the story, gameplay or indeed anyone else's achievements in the game.

kirnmalidus

I agree some of the bosses are challenging but that's how it should be. You don't feel any sense of accomplishment otherwise.

Last night I finally beat Pelidil (solo) after a week of trying. When I beat him I jumped out of my chair and fist pumped. My wife even cheered for me (she knew I had been struggling with him for a while).

That's how beating a zone boss should feel. Maybe this week I'll be able to take on the hound.

tinythinker

As some have pointed out this is an MMO, which means it has lots of players of different levels of interest, skill, free time, and experience. Saying that people who don't have lots of free time to theorycraft and practice using the best character builds -- yet who are paying for access -- should have to face harder challenges because experienced players might get bored isn't a viable business option. At the same time, telling players who want a greater challenge that they can't have it because the level of difficulty must be more accessible for all might lead to players who've gained enough experience to want more demanding content to stop playing. That's not good business either.

There seem to be a few boss fights in 1-50 content that are not geared consistently with other content of the same level, and those can be smoothed out. Yet difficulty should get progressively harder as content closes in on level 50 and beyond. Allowing more group play might help, maybe an option for grouping in some cases that grants less xp and poorer loot? But if it is going to remain solo content I keep thinking of the difficulty settings for single-player games as well as extra tips for those kinds of games when you keep failing enough times. Surely there is some way to help some of the more casual players get past jams and improve for future performance that still allows other more seasoned players to play hard. Definitely having friends to smith better gear and go leveling with is a good start.

Personally I've had a couple of boss battles so far that seemed rigged a little high, so I've had to improvise and alter my approach. It's really frustrating until you get the right tactic, but it does point out where my build or fighting style needs work.

Edit: I must have skipped over twisteddm's reply, which said a lot of the same things. So to add something constructive, I've been playing since late beta and apparently misunderstood some of the combat dynamics. I thought 1) you had to block a telegraphed melee power attack just before the wind-up ends, 2) that you could block attacks that have a red circle on the ground, and 3) that you should block a spell attack by hitting both left/right mouse at once. I made it through nearly 40 levels with those mistakes, and for some who are struggling brief videos like this might help them to improve versus tough opponents. Not saying it's a cure-all, but figuring just those three things out had a real impact on my combat effectiveness.

Sakiri

twisteddm wrote: »

While I also enjoy the challenge (nothing beats the thrill of a close win against a boss) and I agree that the overall difficulty shouldn't be nerfed, I do feel that either A) Grouping in solo content or B ) an adjustable difficulty option is implemented (for the solo missions only) for those who aren't skilled enough or suffer some form of disability that makes playing the game hard enough already.

My girlfriend is one of these people, she lacks the reflexes and coordination necessary for some of the more challenging fights and she becomes easily frustrated by losing in (to her) an unfair manner. In all of the solo content missions so far, I have had to beat the final boss for her, something that is seriously dampening her enthusiasm for a game she has been hoping for since first setting eyes on Skyrim.

Being able to enter her instance to help out, or having her complete an easier version of the instance would in no way undermine the story, gameplay or indeed anyone else's achievements in the game.

Really good friend of mine is like that and stupid difficulty will make him quit.

Ive been trying to get him to play another game with me for months. He wouldnt play wow even after offering to buy it. "I dont want to play an old game" he says.

And being in Sweden, its not like I can go over there and do it *for* him. I cant afford 1200 in airfare every time he gets stuck!

theerin

I agree with OP. There have been a few fights which I thought were really frustrating and tough, like the fight with Doshia for the fighters guild. But after trying & dying a few times, I got a handle on the fight mechanics and beat it easily.

My main is a lv 37 nightblade now and every tough boss fight so far has just been a matter if figuring out the fight mechanics and developing a strategy to counter it. And that's what I love about this game. It's tough, but challenging... And 100% solo-able as far as has been my personal experience.

rawne1980b16_ESO

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

amysue23_ESO wrote: »

Except that for an MMO, you should never be FORCED to solo any quest. Period.

Err... how is that relevant to this thread again?

I think he's complaining he's forced to solo some quests and struggles without someone holding his hand.

Sakiri

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

amysue23_ESO wrote: »

Except that for an MMO, you should never be FORCED to solo any quest. Period.

Err... how is that relevant to this thread again?

I think he's complaining he's forced to solo some quests and struggles without someone holding his hand.

Or has a playing companion that sucks at the game and he doesn't want them to quit because the main quest line is too hard for them.

fantom

Agreed, don't nerf PVE. I'm tired of games that don't hold strong and give in to the whiners. It's created a class of gamers that are so *** entitled they don't think they should have to improve themselves EVER. They think that if something is too hard for them, the game should change according to their whims.

MMOs are about having a carrot on a stick. You're not supposed to take the carrot off the stick and feed it to anyone that asks for it. That's bad game design and will destroy your player numbers.

amysue23_ESO

Not asking for anybody to nerf anything, only that there should be a CHOICE. Folks who love the challenge of solo fight, go for it! Good for you! Those who don't enjoy that kind of challenge, give them a choice to group up with friends, if they want. Many games are designed that way. Nobody is asking anybody to give up their playstyle. Just give us a choice.

Lanatireb17_ESO

Well. I hope you will enjoy playing the game with the 5 people left after 90% have left the game cause they are too casual to finish some of the main quest encounters. But then again, you wont enjoy it for long when the game closes down.

theerin

Lanatireb17_ESO wrote: »

Well. I hope you will enjoy playing the game with the 5 people left after 90% have left the game cause they are too casual to finish some of the main quest encounters. But then again, you wont enjoy it for long when the game closes down.

If any if you end up being one of the other remaining 5 players left: Don't panic! There will still be 500,000 goldsellers to keep us company.

Frail_Old_Man

PvE does not really need narfing, what it does need is for EU server to be moved to EU. Dat lag is fun yo.