Nightblade - Pressure points, mark target, thief stone not working [NB bugs]

cvgb16_ESO

Bugs i found so far:

- Pressure points ( see below)
- Thief mundus stone: no crit change
- Vampire Drain Essence will not work on bosses and elites (unlike other skills where only the stun etc will not be applied but secondary effects still do)
- Mark target does not affect damage dealt, the healing part works and the armor reduction on me seems to work since i take more damage *not tested in pvp
- I have issues with attacks and lag: they set off, don't hit the target, lag and i can't use skills anymore and move very slowly.Fixed when i enter/exit a menu like inventory
- Death Stroke will activate but not deal any damage
- Ambush will not teleport properly sometimes

As of level 35, i feel like melee nightblade is too unpredictable and inconsistent on hard fights. The issue with lag, skills getting bugged and not working, having to go into a menu to get them unstuck etc. I die way to often because things that should happen don't or i get locked out of skills and can't move. Using a bow and ranged skills seems much more consistent and safe.. The damage is also pretty similar.

[EDIT] Added one of my comments into OP s.t. it's easier to find.

Skill issues are easy to fix, the idea that if the dps was on par during tests with these bugs, fixing them might make the class OP. Since the class was deemed balanced during beta i'm guessing they might be waiting on more numbers before making changes or fixing the skills. Or what we see might be the results of balancing and whoever was doing the tooltips forgot to update them properly.

Anyway, as far as the rating part goes. I can tell you this much, for pressure points, if it were to affect *some* rating tied to crit which is converted by a formula to raw based on lvl difference or some such, something is still off:

1) When i went from rank 1 -> rank 2. There was no change on my on-paper crit.

this can mean 2 things:

a) crit rating for rank 1 is 1.5% per skill, only applied on the BASE crit (ie: the 10% you get by default) and it should be applying on your overall crit. So the bonus would be hidden by rounding: 10.6% -> 11% rounded, 11.2% -> 11% rounded.

* this fact can be tested by using the medium armor trait and unequipping items, checking crit, then equipping items. The bonus added should be:

stated bonus * (1+ #assassination skills*0.03) That's not the case.

b) Instead of adding 3% raw crit per skill, it's adding 0.3 because of a typo/bug etc and it's also not working based off of slotted skills, which points to bug/tooltip issue.

Either way you look at it, it adds 1% for rank 2 and for rank 1 i believe (shown so due to rounding). So it doesn't only affect assassination skills (and as such, hidden from the character sheet), it does not seem to depend on skills equipped and it does not scale based on anything currently. There's cleary something wrong.

The mundus stone that adds crit is the thief stone. Upon picking it up, there is no on paper increase.

There's also the off chance that the info window is not showing crit properly which could be tested by doing about 10,000 attacks and parsing crit rate. This should give a decent idea.

cvgb16_ESO

After some testing, this is how it seems to work:

You have a base 10% chance to crit. For every skill you HAVE in the assassination tree, this adds 3% weight to the formula. It does not matter if you have it slotted or not. So with 4 skills in assassination, you would get a 12% bonus, but... it's not a direct increase, only a 12% bonus on your base chance.

So with 10% base crit, no gear and no skills and 4 assassination abilities with points in them, your character screen will show 11% crit chance (11.2 rounded down)

This is the only way i can explain how this works and why after getting this skill i went from 10% base crit to 11%. Slotting or unslotting assassination skills into the action bar does not change this rating.

The skill is clearly bugged, assuming it was meant to give a bonus as a percentage of what you have, it's only being applied to the 10% base rather than your actual rating. Even so, the passive states that the bonus depends on how many skills you slot into your action bar which it clearly does not.

killedbyping

So the mistery about % crit improves starting to wear off it seems.
You not the first who claims that all of those bonuses dont give actual bonus written on tooltip. They improve your natural bonus by some % which appear to give veeeeeeeeery small result.
However, having this bonus by simply spending a point into 4 skills ( i believe that morthing the skill wont affect that bonus) is somewhat nice. You can get alot of other nice passive bonuses from skill lanes you dont use by simply spending few points into them.

Is it realy work as intended ? And why are most of those tooltip are so missleading

kitsinni

killedbyping wrote: »

Is it realy work as intended ? And why are most of those tooltip are so missleading

I honestly really love this game but that is the most frustrating part about it. No one knows what was intended and reading up on the skill doesn't give any additional information.

Nightgard

Well that's not cool , low level you don't have many skill points (especially if you use a lot of them for crafting) so losing points because of a bad tooltip is just.... bad

cvgb16_ESO

killedbyping wrote: »

So the mistery about % crit improves starting to wear off it seems.
You not the first who claims that all of those bonuses dont give actual bonus written on tooltip. They improve your natural bonus by some % which appear to give veeeeeeeeery small result.
However, having this bonus by simply spending a point into 4 skills ( i believe that morthing the skill wont affect that bonus) is somewhat nice. You can get alot of other nice passive bonuses from skill lanes you dont use by simply spending few points into them.

Is it realy work as intended ? And why are most of those tooltip are so missleading

Well, considering how the medium armor bonus works, where it gives exactly what it states + whatever you have and the same with archery, you are led to believe that it should be the case here as well. Same amount of points, harder to reach the level (arguably) in the tree and yet it's a difference between like 30% and 1%. Or 5% (in bow) VS 1%.

It doesn't make any sense. I might be tempted to interpret the text as, it improved the critical rate of slotted assassin abilities by 3%. So it would not show on the character sheet, but those skills which are part of the assassination tree will get this bonus applied to their roll. The issue with that theory is the change from 10% base -> 11% base which i have no way of explaining with this idea..

I also found the that thief mundus stone does not increase crit either.
The vampire ability which makes up for the increased damage from fire and gimped regen does not work on most boss mobs where you would really need it and is limited to 1 use on normal mobs (which makes sense). I understand the crit should not work on mobs immune to crit, but for boss fights it should still give the regen.

Psychic_Kitty

ok want to point this out....I know this from another game.

Their are two types of critical values....rating and damage.

You might be mis-interpreting which critical value it effects.

Like if a power says critical it might be referring to either value or both...this might be an unintentional description error.

Nightgard

you have a mundus stone for critical damage and critical rating (chance ?)

The skill talks about critical rating.

Xaei

Is it just me or does half of NB skills either just don't work or we don't have a clue what they actually do?

Niebla

Xaei wrote: »

Is it just me or does half of NB skills either just don't work or we don't have a clue what they actually do?

Like Mark Target. I can`t see the difference from using it or not in terms of resistences debuff, only the healing part. I do nearly the same damage applying it or not.

Xaei

Sometimes I get a bit worried that this game won't flop because it isn't a good game, but because it's just so broken and the devs don't appear to do anything about it.

Much like one if the reasons AoC then TSW flopped. The game was just frustrating to play because there was so many bugs.

Driften

"cvgb16_ESO ✭
April 7 edited April 7
After some testing, this is how it seems to work:

You have a base 10% chance to crit. For every skill you HAVE in the assassination tree, this adds 3% weight to the formula. It does not matter if you have it slotted or not. So with 4 skills in assassination, you would get a 12% bonus, but... it's not a direct increase, only a 12% bonus on your base chance."


I have to agree with this and this is what I got from the tool tip in the first place. if you look at the tool tip compared to others that give a direct increase such as the medium armor % I think the key words in the description is "rating" compared to armor which is "critical strike chance".

I just recently put points into this skill and prior to this I was already (with medium armor perks" at 28% crit chance. If pressure point is maxed out and was based upon chance rather then ratio then with 6 skills slotted I would be at a whopping 40%, this is without shadow ability's increase. I think this would make this skill line very OP if it were based on chance.

On the bright side the passives are not a waste as you gain more crit chance if should grow stronger.

Anoteros

Niebla wrote: »

Xaei wrote: »

Is it just me or does half of NB skills either just don't work or we don't have a clue what they actually do?

Like Mark Target. I can`t see the difference from using it or not in terms of resistences debuff, only the healing part. I do nearly the same damage applying it or not.

Have to agree with both of you. Tooltips in ESO are counter intuitive.
Mark Target does jack all. Tried it with a bow and running Tactical Foundry combat text and was doing exactly the same amount of damage save for the heal when my target died.

Xaei wrote: »

Sometimes I get a bit worried that this game won't flop because it isn't a good game, but because it's just so broken and the devs don't appear to do anything about it.

Much like one if the reasons AoC then TSW flopped. The game was just frustrating to play because there was so many bugs.

Very true. ESO has great potential but an incapable development team.
Not only is combat bleh but the loot system in place for lower level mobs and for bosses/anchors/rifts is absolutely busted.
Seems all the effort went into their flashy 'cinematic trailers' instead of ironing out bugs, implementing standard mmorpg features and just polishing the overall game

Someone in zone chat said it best: "PC ESO is beta for the consoles."
So far I couldn't agree more.

Nightgard

Anoteros wrote: »

Xaei wrote: »

Sometimes I get a bit worried that this game won't flop because it isn't a good game, but because it's just so broken and the devs don't appear to do anything about it.

Much like one if the reasons AoC then TSW flopped. The game was just frustrating to play because there was so many bugs.

Very true. ESO has great potential but an incapable development team.
Not only is combat bleh but the loot system in place for lower level mobs and for bosses/anchors/rifts is absolutely busted.
Seems all the effort went into their flashy 'cinematic trailers' instead of ironing out bugs, implementing standard mmorpg features and just polishing the overall game

Someone in zone chat said it best: "PC ESO is beta for the consoles."
So far I couldn't agree more.

wow wow , calm down.
"Devs don't appear to do anything" just check every last patch note, they're listening to the community and I think they're not sleeping since pre-acess.

TSW didn't flopped because of bugs, didn't flop at all actually, it's a game for a very special kind of players. Funcom is very happy with the community they have right now.

loot system for lower level mobs ? what about that ? you're not happy that you can't farm bosses lvl 7 with your lvl 50 ? well i'm happy to be able to quest without high lvl players killing everything in my area actually.

I'de say that all the effort didn't go into their flashy cinematic trailer but more into all the amazing quests the game is giving us. Have you even realised that there is not a single "classic MMO quest type" ???
Swtor did a great job on quests but there's always the "go kill 15 foes".
lvl 30 now, haven't seen that in ESO so far. It's a lot of work to do so many quests like that.

Now about the tooltip, stats etc. I agree it sucks. really.
But lotro, Sto, swtor, aion, neverwinter, all these didn't have many stats to show.
They just improved it with some time.
We have already add-ons for life bar etc... like Funcom, zenimax want the community to be involve in the game. Mods and add-on are a huge part of the Elder scrolls games.

Now problems like pressure points or mark target (have to tried to see if it works maybe better in pvp for this one ? you know, where ppl have actually armor poitns), are issues yes but i don't think it's as bad as AoC/tSW's engine issues.

I mean, re-writting a tooltip is no big deal. No need to be so dramatic , talking about the end of the game etc..

Sorry for my english, auto correct doesn't work right now :S

Xaei

^ Funcom is not happy with TSW. They even admitted themselves in press releases that it was not as successful as they hoped it to be. And as far as I know, they havn't actually reaped back the cost of producing the game yet.

I don't see any dev presence on the forums, even in the dev discussion section. If you want to be seen as having presence and are out actively dealing with problems, this is now the time. What happens at launch has made a many a game and broken just as many.

I'm not claiming I know how to do a dev's job, but that's my two cents as a 12 year MMO gamer.

Anoteros

Nightgard wrote: »

Anoteros wrote: »

Xaei wrote: »

Sometimes I get a bit worried that this game won't flop because it isn't a good game, but because it's just so broken and the devs don't appear to do anything about it.

Much like one if the reasons AoC then TSW flopped. The game was just frustrating to play because there was so many bugs.

Very true. ESO has great potential but an incapable development team.
Not only is combat bleh but the loot system in place for lower level mobs and for bosses/anchors/rifts is absolutely busted.
Seems all the effort went into their flashy 'cinematic trailers' instead of ironing out bugs, implementing standard mmorpg features and just polishing the overall game

Someone in zone chat said it best: "PC ESO is beta for the consoles."
So far I couldn't agree more.

wow wow , calm down.
"Devs don't appear to do anything" just check every last patch note, they're listening to the community and I think they're not sleeping since pre-acess.

TSW didn't flopped because of bugs, didn't flop at all actually, it's a game for a very special kind of players. Funcom is very happy with the community they have right now.

loot system for lower level mobs ? what about that ? you're not happy that you can't farm bosses lvl 7 with your lvl 50 ? well i'm happy to be able to quest without high lvl players killing everything in my area actually.

I'de say that all the effort didn't go into their flashy cinematic trailer but more into all the amazing quests the game is giving us. Have you even realised that there is not a single "classic MMO quest type" ???
Swtor did a great job on quests but there's always the "go kill 15 foes".
lvl 30 now, haven't seen that in ESO so far. It's a lot of work to do so many quests like that.

Now about the tooltip, stats etc. I agree it sucks. really.
But lotro, Sto, swtor, aion, neverwinter, all these didn't have many stats to show.
They just improved it with some time.
We have already add-ons for life bar etc... like Funcom, zenimax want the community to be involve in the game. Mods and add-on are a huge part of the Elder scrolls games.

Now problems like pressure points or mark target (have to tried to see if it works maybe better in pvp for this one ? you know, where ppl have actually armor poitns), are issues yes but i don't think it's as bad as AoC/tSW's engine issues.

I mean, re-writting a tooltip is no big deal. No need to be so dramatic , talking about the end of the game etc..

Sorry for my english, auto correct doesn't work right now :S

Yes I went off on a tangent but the little things are really really pissing me off.

I have not seen one ZOS reply to any discussion apart from support.
Some kind of acknowledgement that there are flaws and issues that need fixing and that they 'might' take a look at them would be nice.

The loot from lower levels is an issue. Spending 2 hours in Halls of the Dead @ level 36 trying to kill that *** Reyneir only to have him drop NOTHING is ridiculous and just takes the wind out of my sails both progress and accomplishment wise...

Nightgard

Xaei wrote: »

^ Funcom is not happy with TSW. They even admitted themselves in press releases that it was not as successful as they hoped it to be. And as far as I know, they havn't actually reaped back the cost of producing the game yet.

quote from funcom's 4Q13 :
"The refinement of the business model in 1Q14, combined with continuous targeted marketing programs during 4Q13 and beyond has ledto an increase in activity in The Secret World. The team is currently working on a major upgrade pack ‘Issue 9’ to be released Q214"

It's not the huge game they wanted but it's not as bad as AoC pre-freemium.

Other than that, yes devs in the forum could be nice. but I don't see the end of ESO right now. To soon.

And Anoteros, ok they're not saying that issues need to be fixed etc , but they're actually fixing them (see last patch notes). As long as they do that I'm happy.

Xaei

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/119015-Funcom-Blames-MetaCritic-For-Share-Price-Drop

Led to an increased activity doesn't mean it's doing well. Funcom's shares halved after the launch if TSW, that's a pretty objective indicator that your game was a bit of a flop.

The problem is that some of these bugs are well known bugs that were present in beta. And the devs are being extremely elusive and not even acknowledging they are there.

Nightgard

My point was ,you can't compare the Dreamworld engine problems with ESo bugs.
When they fix a tooltip in AoC , raids are down for a week because new bugs appeared ...

Seriously with a phasing system like the one in ESo I'm surprised we don't have way more issues than that.
No devs were on the swtor forums , yet the game was a success at launch, and a second success when he went F2P. (Even if EA found the release not that good but again, it's EA).
Devs were and are still on TSW forums, twitter and even Facebook, yet it was not a big success.

if you have 12 years experience in MMO you should know by know that few players are actually reading the forums.
Some are just here to complain about a bug and doesn't even bother to read the answer and few are here to discuss about the game, to give feedback help etc.
But what happens here doesn't matter that much. sadly.

People want bugs to be fixed in the game. Not devs talking on the forum.
That's a negative point for Funcom right there. They ARE responding to players everywhere , but nothing seems to get fixed.

Facts are more important than promises .
And so far I see nice patch notes from ESo with lots of fixes for quests. Tooltip issues will be fix soon. It's not a game breaking issue like a quest stuck.

cvgb16_ESO

Skill issues are easy to fix, the idea that if the dps was on par during tests with these bugs, fixing them might make the class OP. Since the class was deemed balanced during beta i'm guessing they might be waiting on more numbers before making changes or fixing the skills. Or what we see might be the results of balancing and whoever was doing the tooltips forgot to update them properly.

Anyway, as far as the rating part goes. I can tell you this much, for pressure points, if it were to affect *some* rating tied to crit which is converted by a formula to raw based on lvl difference or some such, something is still off:

1) When i went from rank 1 -> rank 2. There was no change on my on-paper crit.

this can mean 2 things:

a) crit rating for rank 1 is 1.5% per skill, only applied on the BASE crit (ie: the 10% you get by default) and it should be applying on your overall crit. So the bonus would be hidden by rounding: 10.6% -> 11% rounded, 11.2% -> 11% rounded.

* this fact can be tested by using the medium armor trait and unequipping items, checking crit, then equipping items. The bonus added should be:

stated bonus * (1+ #assassination skills*0.03) That's not the case.

b) Instead of adding 3% raw crit per skill, it's adding 0.3 because of a typo/bug etc and it's also not working based off of slotted skills, which points to bug/tooltip issue.

Either way you look at it, it adds 1% for rank 2 and for rank 1 i believe (shown so due to rounding). So it doesn't only affect assassination skills (and as such, hidden from the character sheet), it does not seem to depend on skills equipped and it does not scale based on anything currently. There's cleary something wrong.

The mundus stone that adds crit is the thief stone. Upon picking it up, there is no on paper increase.

There's also the off chance that the info window is not showing crit properly which could be tested by doing about 10,000 attacks and parsing crit rate. This should give a decent idea.

Nightgard

So I was at 24% crit rating yesterday, 30% right now. but it still doesn't change if I unslot skills. Don't know if we can call it a fix...

Stncold

Haste doesn't work. Pressure points doesn't work. Mark Target doesn't work. Ambush has a random chance of whether or not it will actually teleport you to the target. Death Stroke will just randomly completely miss on NPC's standing completely still in front of you, forcing you to hit it again. Agony sometimes randomly breaks early even if the target takes no damage.

Been playing MMO's since UO and I'm seriously racking my head to find a class with more classbreaking bugs at launch.

Utterly pathetic Zenimax.

cvgb16_ESO

stncold223nub18_ESO wrote: »

Haste doesn't work. Pressure points doesn't work. Mark Target doesn't work. Ambush has a random chance of whether or not it will actually teleport you to the target. Death Stroke will just randomly completely miss on NPC's standing completely still in front of you, forcing you to hit it again. Agony sometimes randomly breaks early even if the target takes no damage.

Been playing MMO's since UO and I'm seriously racking my head to find a class with more classbreaking bugs at launch.

Utterly pathetic Zenimax.

Yeah.. melee nightblade is extremely buggy. While i like the concept and it can be fun at times, it's way too unreliable for me when things get tricky. Much safer using a bow and the damage is about the same..

flo_wb16_ESO

I also have to agree that the NB Class played as rogue style is currently broken. There are situations where it becomes really frustrating especially if you look on the other classes how the faceplam the content.
This is not a matter of wrong tooltips.
ZENIMAX FIX THE NB !!!

Anoteros

stncold223nub18_ESO wrote: »

Haste doesn't work. Pressure points doesn't work. Mark Target doesn't work. Ambush has a random chance of whether or not it will actually teleport you to the target. Death Stroke will just randomly completely miss on NPC's standing completely still in front of you, forcing you to hit it again. Agony sometimes randomly breaks early even if the target takes no damage.

Been playing MMO's since UO and I'm seriously racking my head to find a class with more classbreaking bugs at launch.

Utterly pathetic Zenimax.

Yes! Somebody else with the same problems i've been seeing with my NB!!!!
And here I thought I was going bat *** insane and imagining half of my abilities not working.

I am currently considering rerolling a DK or a sorcerer and putting this busted ass class behind me.

Somehow I think hit boxes for certain npc's are just too small or something...

Koinzell

haha, by now I even took death stroke out of my skill list, it is just pathetic that it sometimes does nothing, the siphoning ultimate is way stronger anyways...

drakuel1ub17_ESO

Nightblade class is broken.. Been screaming this on almost every NB post and feedback to the dev's. It is the only class I know of at the moment that has this many problems in their skill line.

It is frustrating to die just because your skills either do not work as described or just plain will not fire. There goes the whole strategy for most times my initial combat strategy is thrown out the window after these bugs, and I left in mid fight and low health scrambling to save the fight.. I am a yearly subscriber and it pisses me off that my MAIN is broken this bad..

I have heard nothing from support on this. Everyday I am sending support my complaint on the NB class, it should be high priority.. Any class with this many problems need fixing immediately!

Right now my strategy is using only two skills for the most part, just so I can have some stability in my combat. I am not going to spend tons of gold on respect when I do not even know what skills are good or not, because they are not working like they should..

Plagued00

When I periodically check my stat screen, my crit chance fluctuates for 0 reason. It actually appears that I lose my base crit chance randomly, because if I add up what my skills + gear says I should have, it seems spot on with the lower end of the fluctuation. However, this is about 7-10% lower than the high end. For example, I finally hit high enough in Assassination to get my second point in Pressure Points, and my crit chance went from 47% to 46%, but I'd bet money that at some point in the next couple days it will display properly, which should be around 54%.

GreasedLizard

Driften wrote: »

"cvgb16_ESO ✭
April 7 edited April 7
After some testing, this is how it seems to work:

You have a base 10% chance to crit. For every skill you HAVE in the assassination tree, this adds 3% weight to the formula. It does not matter if you have it slotted or not. So with 4 skills in assassination, you would get a 12% bonus, but... it's not a direct increase, only a 12% bonus on your base chance."


I have to agree with this and this is what I got from the tool tip in the first place. if you look at the tool tip compared to others that give a direct increase such as the medium armor % I think the key words in the description is "rating" compared to armor which is "critical strike chance".

I just recently put points into this skill and prior to this I was already (with medium armor perks" at 28% crit chance. If pressure point is maxed out and was based upon chance rather then ratio then with 6 skills slotted I would be at a whopping 40%, this is without shadow ability's increase. I think this would make this skill line very OP if it were based on chance.

On the bright side the passives are not a waste as you gain more crit chance if should grow stronger.

Officially borked then. Just as TF suspected all along.

Zeni, can you look at this code plz

Dominulf

Don't worry guys, it's only beta.

MoMoOG

I've found Mark Target to work for the most part while testing it on a bow. Damage of light attacks seems to go up 5-10%. Seems fairly underwhelming and I dont personally think this ability (like most nightblade abilities I'm finding) is worth having on a bar. I was expecting a lot more but it might be that most mobs just have very low armor/magic resistance to begin with?