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i want to know why...
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Reignskream wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »Reignskream wrote: »One thing one considers a fail, another may consider a win...
MMOs one can easily measure success or failure with numbers, how many subscribers, growth vs loss, longevity, etc perspective means nothing when there are cold hard facts
Now your just being a baby, we arent talking cold hard facts here,I dont CARE whether hard facts are present or not. What i consider a win, is a win to me, if you want to spray hard facts in my face, ill say i still enjoy the game a ton, while everyone hates it.
Aion - my guild went into the game, left it immediately, that was considered a fail to them. I stayed because i loved it, that = a win for me.
Quit argueing bs nonsense. Cold hard facts mean jack when someone loves it regardless.
you may have liked it but overall it was a failed mmo, it was unable to retain a decent customer base. thats just how it works, you who speaks of ignoring facts. If i serve horse urine and call it lemonaid just because you like it while no one else does, does not make it a successful business venture.
Edited by michaelfomenkocub18_ESO on April 6, 2014 9:01PM1 -
chrisb16_ESO102Soul Shrivendarkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »Honestly? I don't really know. Maybe ask every other sub-based MMOs that did this. The only difference here is the temporary authorization. I don't remember any of the other sub MMOs I've played doing a temp auth, even for $1.
what other sub based mmo are you speaking of? WoW buy the game get the time included without buying more first
First of all, back when I bought WoW you absolutely had to input billing information first. This was back during BC. Sure, maybe they changed it at some point, but they definitely started out the same way.
As for other MMOs...SWTOR, Lineage 2, Aion, Rift, Vanguard, Everquest 2, Planetside 1. Obviously these are all F2P now (Vanguard is getting/has gotten shut down), but they all started out the same way.
i started in bc, never had to put in info, i bought the box set vanalia and bc from a store, came with 30 days, installed and created my account and started right up on my free 30 days. paid with time cards for the majority of my time on wow, it was mid cata before the first time i paid with a cc so for over 4 years i played wow without ever giving them my cc info... tell me again how 'everyone' does this lol
I bought WoW back before a box set of vanilla and BC even existed. I absolutely had to enter CC information before I could play.
Besides, even if what you say is true (I doubt it), that would only refute one of the MMOs I listed. So tell me again how "everyone" doesn't do this.
I started wow before BC as well and NEVER had to put CC info in before I could use included game time. Never had to do this with AION, AutoAssault,Tabula Rasa, Anarchy Online etc.
It's complete BS asking you to do it.
Edited by chrisb16_ESO102 on April 6, 2014 9:01PM0 -
Juicebox1988b14_ESOSoul ShrivenI JUST WANT TO PLAY!! Why couldn't they just like checked my account by taking a dollar!
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Reignskream✭✭✭✭michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »Reignskream wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »Reignskream wrote: »One thing one considers a fail, another may consider a win...
MMOs one can easily measure success or failure with numbers, how many subscribers, growth vs loss, longevity, etc perspective means nothing when there are cold hard facts
Now your just being a baby, we arent talking cold hard facts here,I dont CARE whether hard facts are present or not. What i consider a win, is a win to me, if you want to spray hard facts in my face, ill say i still enjoy the game a ton, while everyone hates it.
Aion - my guild went into the game, left it immediately, that was considered a fail to them. I stayed because i loved it, that = a win for me.
Quit argueing bs nonsense. Cold hard facts mean jack when someone loves it regardless.
you may have liked it but overall it was a failed mmo, it was unable to retain a decent customer base. thats just how it works, you who speaks of ignoring facts. If i serve horse *** and call it lemonaid just because you like it while no one else does, does not make it a successful business venture.
Its a failed MMO in your eyes, not in mine. Your definition of fail and my definition clearly are different. I dont base my wins and fails off of everybody elses opinions.
thats like hearing your friend say: that movie sucks!!! and then it automatically sucks to you, but then you go see it next week, and you love it.
Fail for him, Win for me.
Edited by Reignskream on April 6, 2014 9:02PM0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭simon24eb17_ESO wrote: »It keeps poor people out of the game, no bad thing imo
It also keeps people with funds out of game too.
Alienating a paying player-base isn't a good business move early on.
"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »Honestly? I don't really know. Maybe ask every other sub-based MMOs that did this. The only difference here is the temporary authorization. I don't remember any of the other sub MMOs I've played doing a temp auth, even for $1.
what other sub based mmo are you speaking of? WoW buy the game get the time included without buying more first
First of all, back when I bought WoW you absolutely had to input billing information first. This was back during BC. Sure, maybe they changed it at some point, but they definitely started out the same way.
As for other MMOs...SWTOR, Lineage 2, Aion, Rift, Vanguard, Everquest 2, Planetside 1. Obviously these are all F2P now (Vanguard is getting/has gotten shut down), but they all started out the same way.
i started in bc, never had to put in info, i bought the box set vanalia and bc from a store, came with 30 days, installed and created my account and started right up on my free 30 days. paid with time cards for the majority of my time on wow, it was mid cata before the first time i paid with a cc so for over 4 years i played wow without ever giving them my cc info... tell me again how 'everyone' does this lol
I bought WoW back before a box set of vanilla and BC even existed. I absolutely had to enter CC information before I could play.
Besides, even if what you say is true (I doubt it), that would only refute one of the MMOs I listed. So tell me again how "everyone" doesn't do this.
lets stick to successful ones none of which in memory have required this to get time already paid for
So you're the one that wanted examples of other MMOs that have done this, but now that I've provided examples you want to narrow the scope of this to only MMOs that you, personally, have deemed successful?
Care on sharing some of those examples? Oh and please don't mention FFXIV. You know, the MMO that failed so hard they decided to remake it.
For the record, I don't agree that this subscription requirement should happen. I just can't let people wrongly suggest that other MMOs haven't done this.
my bad i figured common sense would exclude failed and dead mmos from that list, my bad i assumed you had the cognitive power to understand that using a failure as an example is terrible logic.
Aaaaand you still don't provide your examples. But anyway, speaking of logic, since many of the MMOs I listed "failed" (which is opinion and not fact, by the way) long after their release, then it is impossible to logically contribute their failure to requiring a subscription in order to redeem their included 30 days. Therefore, their "failure" is irrelevant to this conversation. #logic
the fact that you use # while posting says a lot about you, none of it good. but moving on, one factor a failure does not make, true enough, however using failures as an example is in turn setting ones self up for failure.
If you show up to work drunk and when your boss confronts you and you tell him its all good the homeless guy on the corner used to do it all the time, its not really going to end well for you.
yay logic.1 -
simon24eb17_ESO wrote: »It keeps poor people out of the game, no bad thing imo
in this economy its no real shock for someone to only have so much on hand at a time, if you just paid $80 on a small budget to get a game odds are you dont have an extra $15 sitting around that you can afford to spare currently.
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Reignskream✭✭✭✭I see the OP managed to even get off the OP's subject, but on that turn, im used to paying before playing like every other MMO. Isnt an issue for me, but im one of the ones left out regardless due to i dont get my physical i.e till tomorrow evening.0
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Reignskream wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »Reignskream wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »Reignskream wrote: »One thing one considers a fail, another may consider a win...
MMOs one can easily measure success or failure with numbers, how many subscribers, growth vs loss, longevity, etc perspective means nothing when there are cold hard facts
Now your just being a baby, we arent talking cold hard facts here,I dont CARE whether hard facts are present or not. What i consider a win, is a win to me, if you want to spray hard facts in my face, ill say i still enjoy the game a ton, while everyone hates it.
Aion - my guild went into the game, left it immediately, that was considered a fail to them. I stayed because i loved it, that = a win for me.
Quit argueing bs nonsense. Cold hard facts mean jack when someone loves it regardless.
you may have liked it but overall it was a failed mmo, it was unable to retain a decent customer base. thats just how it works, you who speaks of ignoring facts. If i serve horse *** and call it lemonaid just because you like it while no one else does, does not make it a successful business venture.
Its a failed MMO in your eyes, not in mine. Your definition of fail and my definition clearly are different. I dont base my wins and fails off of everybody elses opinions.
thats like hearing your friend say: that movie sucks!!! and then it automatically sucks to you, but then you go see it next week, and you love it.
Fail for him, Win for me.
actually if a mmo is unable to sustain a customer base or better yet grow a customer base it is a failure. this is not opinion this is fact. just because you like it when most didnt does not make it a success.
now i understand you are misunderstanding the wording here, as a business venture it was a failure there is no disputing that it was plain and simple. as a game it could be fun, i dont know i havnt played it, however im not discussing this in terms of fun but in terms of business success. you can argue that you enjoy it all you want, but when it comes to business there is no opinion or perspective, everything is measurable numerical fact.0 -
darkkterror_ESO✭✭✭michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »Honestly? I don't really know. Maybe ask every other sub-based MMOs that did this. The only difference here is the temporary authorization. I don't remember any of the other sub MMOs I've played doing a temp auth, even for $1.
what other sub based mmo are you speaking of? WoW buy the game get the time included without buying more first
First of all, back when I bought WoW you absolutely had to input billing information first. This was back during BC. Sure, maybe they changed it at some point, but they definitely started out the same way.
As for other MMOs...SWTOR, Lineage 2, Aion, Rift, Vanguard, Everquest 2, Planetside 1. Obviously these are all F2P now (Vanguard is getting/has gotten shut down), but they all started out the same way.
i started in bc, never had to put in info, i bought the box set vanalia and bc from a store, came with 30 days, installed and created my account and started right up on my free 30 days. paid with time cards for the majority of my time on wow, it was mid cata before the first time i paid with a cc so for over 4 years i played wow without ever giving them my cc info... tell me again how 'everyone' does this lol
I bought WoW back before a box set of vanilla and BC even existed. I absolutely had to enter CC information before I could play.
Besides, even if what you say is true (I doubt it), that would only refute one of the MMOs I listed. So tell me again how "everyone" doesn't do this.
lets stick to successful ones none of which in memory have required this to get time already paid for
So you're the one that wanted examples of other MMOs that have done this, but now that I've provided examples you want to narrow the scope of this to only MMOs that you, personally, have deemed successful?
Care on sharing some of those examples? Oh and please don't mention FFXIV. You know, the MMO that failed so hard they decided to remake it.
For the record, I don't agree that this subscription requirement should happen. I just can't let people wrongly suggest that other MMOs haven't done this.
my bad i figured common sense would exclude failed and dead mmos from that list, my bad i assumed you had the cognitive power to understand that using a failure as an example is terrible logic.
Aaaaand you still don't provide your examples. But anyway, speaking of logic, since many of the MMOs I listed "failed" (which is opinion and not fact, by the way) long after their release, then it is impossible to logically contribute their failure to requiring a subscription in order to redeem their included 30 days. Therefore, their "failure" is irrelevant to this conversation. #logic
the fact that you use # while posting says a lot about you, none of it good. but moving on, one factor a failure does not make, true enough, however using failures as an example is in turn setting ones self up for failure.
If you show up to work drunk and when your boss confronts you and you tell him its all good the homeless guy on the corner used to do it all the time, its not really going to end well for you.
yay logic.
Logic. I don't think it means what you think it means. Logic is entirely absent from your post. The proof of this is the fact that you continue to insist that the MMOs I listed failed. You cannot, in any way, shape or form, prove this with actual fact. The exception is Vanguard, which I openly admitted has been shut down. You might also argue for Planetside 1, which sees no further development.
However, you cannot reasonably argue that Everquest 2, Lineage 2, Aion, Rift, or SWTOR have failed. The logical reason behind this is the fact that these games are still operating and still see active development. Tell me, what logical company would continue to host and develop a product that is losing them money? The only "failure" that matters to them is financial failure.
These MMOs would not still exist and see continued development if they did not make money. That is just about irrefutable. You can go on and on about how they failed in your eyes, but as long as they are not failures in the eyes of the company that creates it, it is not a failure.0 -
Reignskream wrote: »I see the OP managed to even get off the OP's subject, but on that turn, im used to paying before playing like every other MMO. Isnt an issue for me, but im one of the ones left out regardless due to i dont get my physical i.e till tomorrow evening.
still on topic as to why this was a bad idea, just a back and forth between those comparing failed games to this game to justify this and those justifications being torn down.0 -
Rev Rielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭You can tell this is their first foray into the world of MMO gaming, as they're making a lot of nonsensical little mistakes.
This being one of them.If you can be anything, be kind.2 -
Reignskream✭✭✭✭Yeah there isnt any sense debating that topic as I myself will determine what is a fail and a win for me, not the other way around.
OFfffff to a new topic! 0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't really care what other games have been or haven't been failures; I care about this game as it is the game I have decided to play.
As such, it is entirely discouraging that THIS company expects me to pay in advance of playing THIS game while game time cards are not available.
The company is asking for payment, and not providing means for payment to be established.
Regardless of how well or poorly any other game has turned out in the past, this current situation is not a good one."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
1 -
This whole argument of "prove to me which MMO's require payment info" is ludicrous.
The phrase that pays here is: Payment info, and subscription plan.
Many do...and have since the beginning. I started in WoW vanilla...it absolutely did...does it now...who gives a crap...doesn't matter. LoTRO did. SW:TOR did. Rift did. DCUO did. As have many others. I've played (and still play) a LOT of MMO's.... Were they all successful...irrelevant.
Most all of them held a "verification" amount (usually only 1$) for a short period, which was then released back to my account.
Please stop acting like this never happens...Google is your friend.
If you're that strapped for cash...playing a video game is the least of your problems...
Sometimes i think you guys don't even MMO...srsly...
-=*Peace*=-
Z0 -
Reignskream wrote: »Yeah there isnt any sense debating that topic as I myself will determine what is a fail and a win for me, not the other way around. OFfffff to a new topic!
the logic is weak in this one lol. move along, your inability to separate fact from opinion is of no use here.darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »Honestly? I don't really know. Maybe ask every other sub-based MMOs that did this. The only difference here is the temporary authorization. I don't remember any of the other sub MMOs I've played doing a temp auth, even for $1.
what other sub based mmo are you speaking of? WoW buy the game get the time included without buying more first
First of all, back when I bought WoW you absolutely had to input billing information first. This was back during BC. Sure, maybe they changed it at some point, but they definitely started out the same way.
As for other MMOs...SWTOR, Lineage 2, Aion, Rift, Vanguard, Everquest 2, Planetside 1. Obviously these are all F2P now (Vanguard is getting/has gotten shut down), but they all started out the same way.
i started in bc, never had to put in info, i bought the box set vanalia and bc from a store, came with 30 days, installed and created my account and started right up on my free 30 days. paid with time cards for the majority of my time on wow, it was mid cata before the first time i paid with a cc so for over 4 years i played wow without ever giving them my cc info... tell me again how 'everyone' does this lol
I bought WoW back before a box set of vanilla and BC even existed. I absolutely had to enter CC information before I could play.
Besides, even if what you say is true (I doubt it), that would only refute one of the MMOs I listed. So tell me again how "everyone" doesn't do this.
lets stick to successful ones none of which in memory have required this to get time already paid for
So you're the one that wanted examples of other MMOs that have done this, but now that I've provided examples you want to narrow the scope of this to only MMOs that you, personally, have deemed successful?
Care on sharing some of those examples? Oh and please don't mention FFXIV. You know, the MMO that failed so hard they decided to remake it.
For the record, I don't agree that this subscription requirement should happen. I just can't let people wrongly suggest that other MMOs haven't done this.
my bad i figured common sense would exclude failed and dead mmos from that list, my bad i assumed you had the cognitive power to understand that using a failure as an example is terrible logic.
Aaaaand you still don't provide your examples. But anyway, speaking of logic, since many of the MMOs I listed "failed" (which is opinion and not fact, by the way) long after their release, then it is impossible to logically contribute their failure to requiring a subscription in order to redeem their included 30 days. Therefore, their "failure" is irrelevant to this conversation. #logic
the fact that you use # while posting says a lot about you, none of it good. but moving on, one factor a failure does not make, true enough, however using failures as an example is in turn setting ones self up for failure.
If you show up to work drunk and when your boss confronts you and you tell him its all good the homeless guy on the corner used to do it all the time, its not really going to end well for you.
yay logic.
Logic. I don't think it means what you think it means. Logic is entirely absent from your post. The proof of this is the fact that you continue to insist that the MMOs I listed failed. You cannot, in any way, shape or form, prove this with actual fact. The exception is Vanguard, which I openly admitted has been shut down. You might also argue for Planetside 1, which sees no further development.
However, you cannot reasonably argue that Everquest 2, Lineage 2, Aion, Rift, or SWTOR have failed. The logical reason behind this is the fact that these games are still operating and still see active development. Tell me, what logical company would continue to host and develop a product that is losing them money? The only "failure" that matters to them is financial failure.
These MMOs would not still exist and see continued development if they did not make money. That is just about irrefutable. You can go on and on about how they failed in your eyes, but as long as they are not failures in the eyes of the company that creates it, it is not a failure.
correct me if im wrong but as i recall most of those are no longer sub based games although starting out as such, why because they could not sustain a high enough costumer base to support the model, which in turn makes them a failure. are they able to scrape by with a micro transaction model and throw out some minor development here and there, yes as long as they dont dry up any more, will they ever be able to develop content at the rate of mmo giants in the market? no of course not, they have too small of a base and show no growth. which again makes them failures. or if you wish to term it so, far from successful.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
TOR was a failure by it's own metrics. Bioware hyped it, literally, as the greatest achievement in human history.darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »Honestly? I don't really know. Maybe ask every other sub-based MMOs that did this. The only difference here is the temporary authorization. I don't remember any of the other sub MMOs I've played doing a temp auth, even for $1.
what other sub based mmo are you speaking of? WoW buy the game get the time included without buying more first
First of all, back when I bought WoW you absolutely had to input billing information first. This was back during BC. Sure, maybe they changed it at some point, but they definitely started out the same way.
As for other MMOs...SWTOR, Lineage 2, Aion, Rift, Vanguard, Everquest 2, Planetside 1. Obviously these are all F2P now (Vanguard is getting/has gotten shut down), but they all started out the same way.
i started in bc, never had to put in info, i bought the box set vanalia and bc from a store, came with 30 days, installed and created my account and started right up on my free 30 days. paid with time cards for the majority of my time on wow, it was mid cata before the first time i paid with a cc so for over 4 years i played wow without ever giving them my cc info... tell me again how 'everyone' does this lol
I bought WoW back before a box set of vanilla and BC even existed. I absolutely had to enter CC information before I could play.
Besides, even if what you say is true (I doubt it), that would only refute one of the MMOs I listed. So tell me again how "everyone" doesn't do this.
lets stick to successful ones none of which in memory have required this to get time already paid for
So you're the one that wanted examples of other MMOs that have done this, but now that I've provided examples you want to narrow the scope of this to only MMOs that you, personally, have deemed successful?
Care on sharing some of those examples? Oh and please don't mention FFXIV. You know, the MMO that failed so hard they decided to remake it.
For the record, I don't agree that this subscription requirement should happen. I just can't let people wrongly suggest that other MMOs haven't done this.
my bad i figured common sense would exclude failed and dead mmos from that list, my bad i assumed you had the cognitive power to understand that using a failure as an example is terrible logic.
Aaaaand you still don't provide your examples. But anyway, speaking of logic, since many of the MMOs I listed "failed" (which is opinion and not fact, by the way) long after their release, then it is impossible to logically contribute their failure to requiring a subscription in order to redeem their included 30 days. Therefore, their "failure" is irrelevant to this conversation. #logic
the fact that you use # while posting says a lot about you, none of it good. but moving on, one factor a failure does not make, true enough, however using failures as an example is in turn setting ones self up for failure.
If you show up to work drunk and when your boss confronts you and you tell him its all good the homeless guy on the corner used to do it all the time, its not really going to end well for you.
yay logic.
Logic. I don't think it means what you think it means. Logic is entirely absent from your post. The proof of this is the fact that you continue to insist that the MMOs I listed failed. You cannot, in any way, shape or form, prove this with actual fact. The exception is Vanguard, which I openly admitted has been shut down. You might also argue for Planetside 1, which sees no further development.
However, you cannot reasonably argue that Everquest 2, Lineage 2, Aion, Rift, or SWTOR have failed. The logical reason behind this is the fact that these games are still operating and still see active development. Tell me, what logical company would continue to host and develop a product that is losing them money? The only "failure" that matters to them is financial failure.
These MMOs would not still exist and see continued development if they did not make money. That is just about irrefutable. You can go on and on about how they failed in your eyes, but as long as they are not failures in the eyes of the company that creates it, it is not a failure.
Not with the tongue in cheek approach that Saints Row 4 used, but actually claimed that in interviews.
The game needed... I forget, I think a stable user base of 1m players to break even. It went F2P within a year of launch (or slightly after, again, this isn't something I spend a lot of time obsessing over.)
It was the fastest selling MMO of all time, and failed to meet sales projections. It was a failure, but it was a failure of it's own making and arrogance.
You're also arguing with the guy who didn't think Everquest still existed... so... eh.1 -
darkkterror_ESO✭✭✭michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »Reignskream wrote: »Yeah there isnt any sense debating that topic as I myself will determine what is a fail and a win for me, not the other way around. OFfffff to a new topic!
the logic is weak in this one lol. move along, your inability to separate fact from opinion is of no use here.darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »Honestly? I don't really know. Maybe ask every other sub-based MMOs that did this. The only difference here is the temporary authorization. I don't remember any of the other sub MMOs I've played doing a temp auth, even for $1.
what other sub based mmo are you speaking of? WoW buy the game get the time included without buying more first
First of all, back when I bought WoW you absolutely had to input billing information first. This was back during BC. Sure, maybe they changed it at some point, but they definitely started out the same way.
As for other MMOs...SWTOR, Lineage 2, Aion, Rift, Vanguard, Everquest 2, Planetside 1. Obviously these are all F2P now (Vanguard is getting/has gotten shut down), but they all started out the same way.
i started in bc, never had to put in info, i bought the box set vanalia and bc from a store, came with 30 days, installed and created my account and started right up on my free 30 days. paid with time cards for the majority of my time on wow, it was mid cata before the first time i paid with a cc so for over 4 years i played wow without ever giving them my cc info... tell me again how 'everyone' does this lol
I bought WoW back before a box set of vanilla and BC even existed. I absolutely had to enter CC information before I could play.
Besides, even if what you say is true (I doubt it), that would only refute one of the MMOs I listed. So tell me again how "everyone" doesn't do this.
lets stick to successful ones none of which in memory have required this to get time already paid for
So you're the one that wanted examples of other MMOs that have done this, but now that I've provided examples you want to narrow the scope of this to only MMOs that you, personally, have deemed successful?
Care on sharing some of those examples? Oh and please don't mention FFXIV. You know, the MMO that failed so hard they decided to remake it.
For the record, I don't agree that this subscription requirement should happen. I just can't let people wrongly suggest that other MMOs haven't done this.
my bad i figured common sense would exclude failed and dead mmos from that list, my bad i assumed you had the cognitive power to understand that using a failure as an example is terrible logic.
Aaaaand you still don't provide your examples. But anyway, speaking of logic, since many of the MMOs I listed "failed" (which is opinion and not fact, by the way) long after their release, then it is impossible to logically contribute their failure to requiring a subscription in order to redeem their included 30 days. Therefore, their "failure" is irrelevant to this conversation. #logic
the fact that you use # while posting says a lot about you, none of it good. but moving on, one factor a failure does not make, true enough, however using failures as an example is in turn setting ones self up for failure.
If you show up to work drunk and when your boss confronts you and you tell him its all good the homeless guy on the corner used to do it all the time, its not really going to end well for you.
yay logic.
Logic. I don't think it means what you think it means. Logic is entirely absent from your post. The proof of this is the fact that you continue to insist that the MMOs I listed failed. You cannot, in any way, shape or form, prove this with actual fact. The exception is Vanguard, which I openly admitted has been shut down. You might also argue for Planetside 1, which sees no further development.
However, you cannot reasonably argue that Everquest 2, Lineage 2, Aion, Rift, or SWTOR have failed. The logical reason behind this is the fact that these games are still operating and still see active development. Tell me, what logical company would continue to host and develop a product that is losing them money? The only "failure" that matters to them is financial failure.
These MMOs would not still exist and see continued development if they did not make money. That is just about irrefutable. You can go on and on about how they failed in your eyes, but as long as they are not failures in the eyes of the company that creates it, it is not a failure.
correct me if im wrong but as i recall most of those are no longer sub based games although starting out as such, why because they could not sustain a high enough costumer base to support the model, which in turn makes them a failure. are they able to scrape by with a micro transaction model and throw out some minor development here and there, yes as long as they dont dry up any more, will they ever be able to develop content at the rate of mmo giants in the market? no of course not, they have too small of a base and show no growth. which again makes them failures. or if you wish to term it so, far from successful.
Again you are unable to differentiate from your opinion and fact. It is true that many MMO gamers automatically assume a MMO is a failure if it goes from P2P to F2P. Again, however, this is their opinion. Other people consider a MMO a failure if WoW doesn't instantaneously die the next day. Some people consider a MMO an instant failure if it still launches as a P2P instead of a F2P. These would also be examples of opinions.
Your personal opinion on what constitutes a failure when it comes to a MMO is irrelevant. The only true way we can gauge a failure is based on what the company itself does with it. If the company shuts the game down, then it was obviously a financial failure. If the game is still running, seeing active development, and making money then how can we class that as a failure?0 -
Hyperventilate✭✭✭
Go to any grocery store & buy a prepaid visa or mastercard. Should hold you over.josephirothb16_ESO wrote: »What if I don't have a CC and I am using gametime cards and the store ran out of game cards and won't have them for three weeks, and I have 30 days free time but I can't use it because I live in a small town and only one game store that sell those cards and i have to wait 3 weeks.
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hyperventilate wrote: »
Go to any grocery store & buy a prepaid visa or mastercard. Should hold you over.josephirothb16_ESO wrote: »What if I don't have a CC and I am using gametime cards and the store ran out of game cards and won't have them for three weeks, and I have 30 days free time but I can't use it because I live in a small town and only one game store that sell those cards and i have to wait 3 weeks.
Supposedly, prepaid visas and mastercards don't actually work. This may be just hearsay, though.0 -
I feel they are not making enough sales so there're forced to us this model to milk the game for everything it has.0
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darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »Reignskream wrote: »Yeah there isnt any sense debating that topic as I myself will determine what is a fail and a win for me, not the other way around. OFfffff to a new topic!
the logic is weak in this one lol. move along, your inability to separate fact from opinion is of no use here.darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »Honestly? I don't really know. Maybe ask every other sub-based MMOs that did this. The only difference here is the temporary authorization. I don't remember any of the other sub MMOs I've played doing a temp auth, even for $1.
what other sub based mmo are you speaking of? WoW buy the game get the time included without buying more first
First of all, back when I bought WoW you absolutely had to input billing information first. This was back during BC. Sure, maybe they changed it at some point, but they definitely started out the same way.
As for other MMOs...SWTOR, Lineage 2, Aion, Rift, Vanguard, Everquest 2, Planetside 1. Obviously these are all F2P now (Vanguard is getting/has gotten shut down), but they all started out the same way.
i started in bc, never had to put in info, i bought the box set vanalia and bc from a store, came with 30 days, installed and created my account and started right up on my free 30 days. paid with time cards for the majority of my time on wow, it was mid cata before the first time i paid with a cc so for over 4 years i played wow without ever giving them my cc info... tell me again how 'everyone' does this lol
I bought WoW back before a box set of vanilla and BC even existed. I absolutely had to enter CC information before I could play.
Besides, even if what you say is true (I doubt it), that would only refute one of the MMOs I listed. So tell me again how "everyone" doesn't do this.
lets stick to successful ones none of which in memory have required this to get time already paid for
So you're the one that wanted examples of other MMOs that have done this, but now that I've provided examples you want to narrow the scope of this to only MMOs that you, personally, have deemed successful?
Care on sharing some of those examples? Oh and please don't mention FFXIV. You know, the MMO that failed so hard they decided to remake it.
For the record, I don't agree that this subscription requirement should happen. I just can't let people wrongly suggest that other MMOs haven't done this.
my bad i figured common sense would exclude failed and dead mmos from that list, my bad i assumed you had the cognitive power to understand that using a failure as an example is terrible logic.
Aaaaand you still don't provide your examples. But anyway, speaking of logic, since many of the MMOs I listed "failed" (which is opinion and not fact, by the way) long after their release, then it is impossible to logically contribute their failure to requiring a subscription in order to redeem their included 30 days. Therefore, their "failure" is irrelevant to this conversation. #logic
the fact that you use # while posting says a lot about you, none of it good. but moving on, one factor a failure does not make, true enough, however using failures as an example is in turn setting ones self up for failure.
If you show up to work drunk and when your boss confronts you and you tell him its all good the homeless guy on the corner used to do it all the time, its not really going to end well for you.
yay logic.
Logic. I don't think it means what you think it means. Logic is entirely absent from your post. The proof of this is the fact that you continue to insist that the MMOs I listed failed. You cannot, in any way, shape or form, prove this with actual fact. The exception is Vanguard, which I openly admitted has been shut down. You might also argue for Planetside 1, which sees no further development.
However, you cannot reasonably argue that Everquest 2, Lineage 2, Aion, Rift, or SWTOR have failed. The logical reason behind this is the fact that these games are still operating and still see active development. Tell me, what logical company would continue to host and develop a product that is losing them money? The only "failure" that matters to them is financial failure.
These MMOs would not still exist and see continued development if they did not make money. That is just about irrefutable. You can go on and on about how they failed in your eyes, but as long as they are not failures in the eyes of the company that creates it, it is not a failure.
correct me if im wrong but as i recall most of those are no longer sub based games although starting out as such, why because they could not sustain a high enough costumer base to support the model, which in turn makes them a failure. are they able to scrape by with a micro transaction model and throw out some minor development here and there, yes as long as they dont dry up any more, will they ever be able to develop content at the rate of mmo giants in the market? no of course not, they have too small of a base and show no growth. which again makes them failures. or if you wish to term it so, far from successful.
Again you are unable to differentiate from your opinion and fact. It is true that many MMO gamers automatically assume a MMO is a failure if it goes from P2P to F2P. Again, however, this is their opinion. Other people consider a MMO a failure if WoW doesn't instantaneously die the next day. Some people consider a MMO an instant failure if it still launches as a P2P instead of a F2P. These would also be examples of opinions.
Your personal opinion on what constitutes a failure when it comes to a MMO is irrelevant. The only true way we can gauge a failure is based on what the company itself does with it. If the company shuts the game down, then it was obviously a financial failure. If the game is still running, seeing active development, and making money then how can we class that as a failure?
a P2P game going to a F2P model is not a success however you want to measure it. Call it whatever you want but that is in truth an absolute failure. Its like going to college to become a doctor and then spending the rest of your life working behind a register at mcdonalds. you can spin it however you want but its still failing to achieve goals and sustainability.
0 -
starkerealm wrote: »
TOR was a failure by it's own metrics. Bioware hyped it, literally, as the greatest achievement in human history.darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »Honestly? I don't really know. Maybe ask every other sub-based MMOs that did this. The only difference here is the temporary authorization. I don't remember any of the other sub MMOs I've played doing a temp auth, even for $1.
what other sub based mmo are you speaking of? WoW buy the game get the time included without buying more first
First of all, back when I bought WoW you absolutely had to input billing information first. This was back during BC. Sure, maybe they changed it at some point, but they definitely started out the same way.
As for other MMOs...SWTOR, Lineage 2, Aion, Rift, Vanguard, Everquest 2, Planetside 1. Obviously these are all F2P now (Vanguard is getting/has gotten shut down), but they all started out the same way.
i started in bc, never had to put in info, i bought the box set vanalia and bc from a store, came with 30 days, installed and created my account and started right up on my free 30 days. paid with time cards for the majority of my time on wow, it was mid cata before the first time i paid with a cc so for over 4 years i played wow without ever giving them my cc info... tell me again how 'everyone' does this lol
I bought WoW back before a box set of vanilla and BC even existed. I absolutely had to enter CC information before I could play.
Besides, even if what you say is true (I doubt it), that would only refute one of the MMOs I listed. So tell me again how "everyone" doesn't do this.
lets stick to successful ones none of which in memory have required this to get time already paid for
So you're the one that wanted examples of other MMOs that have done this, but now that I've provided examples you want to narrow the scope of this to only MMOs that you, personally, have deemed successful?
Care on sharing some of those examples? Oh and please don't mention FFXIV. You know, the MMO that failed so hard they decided to remake it.
For the record, I don't agree that this subscription requirement should happen. I just can't let people wrongly suggest that other MMOs haven't done this.
my bad i figured common sense would exclude failed and dead mmos from that list, my bad i assumed you had the cognitive power to understand that using a failure as an example is terrible logic.
Aaaaand you still don't provide your examples. But anyway, speaking of logic, since many of the MMOs I listed "failed" (which is opinion and not fact, by the way) long after their release, then it is impossible to logically contribute their failure to requiring a subscription in order to redeem their included 30 days. Therefore, their "failure" is irrelevant to this conversation. #logic
the fact that you use # while posting says a lot about you, none of it good. but moving on, one factor a failure does not make, true enough, however using failures as an example is in turn setting ones self up for failure.
If you show up to work drunk and when your boss confronts you and you tell him its all good the homeless guy on the corner used to do it all the time, its not really going to end well for you.
yay logic.
Logic. I don't think it means what you think it means. Logic is entirely absent from your post. The proof of this is the fact that you continue to insist that the MMOs I listed failed. You cannot, in any way, shape or form, prove this with actual fact. The exception is Vanguard, which I openly admitted has been shut down. You might also argue for Planetside 1, which sees no further development.
However, you cannot reasonably argue that Everquest 2, Lineage 2, Aion, Rift, or SWTOR have failed. The logical reason behind this is the fact that these games are still operating and still see active development. Tell me, what logical company would continue to host and develop a product that is losing them money? The only "failure" that matters to them is financial failure.
These MMOs would not still exist and see continued development if they did not make money. That is just about irrefutable. You can go on and on about how they failed in your eyes, but as long as they are not failures in the eyes of the company that creates it, it is not a failure.
Not with the tongue in cheek approach that Saints Row 4 used, but actually claimed that in interviews.
The game needed... I forget, I think a stable user base of 1m players to break even. It went F2P within a year of launch (or slightly after, again, this isn't something I spend a lot of time obsessing over.)
It was the fastest selling MMO of all time, and failed to meet sales projections. It was a failure, but it was a failure of it's own making and arrogance.
You're also arguing with the guy who didn't think Everquest still existed... so... eh.
what can i say, i hadnt heard anything about EQ aside from a few wow guildees reminiscing about the old days of EQ... you cant really say its something most folks talk about or get hyped over in this day and age
its kinda like throwing in runescape as a name, you may know what it is but do you really keep up with something that old? 0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
EQ just celebrated it's 15th anniversary... so... yeah. It's still out there. EQ2 was one of the three major MMO releases of 2004/2005.michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
TOR was a failure by it's own metrics. Bioware hyped it, literally, as the greatest achievement in human history.darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »Honestly? I don't really know. Maybe ask every other sub-based MMOs that did this. The only difference here is the temporary authorization. I don't remember any of the other sub MMOs I've played doing a temp auth, even for $1.
what other sub based mmo are you speaking of? WoW buy the game get the time included without buying more first
First of all, back when I bought WoW you absolutely had to input billing information first. This was back during BC. Sure, maybe they changed it at some point, but they definitely started out the same way.
As for other MMOs...SWTOR, Lineage 2, Aion, Rift, Vanguard, Everquest 2, Planetside 1. Obviously these are all F2P now (Vanguard is getting/has gotten shut down), but they all started out the same way.
i started in bc, never had to put in info, i bought the box set vanalia and bc from a store, came with 30 days, installed and created my account and started right up on my free 30 days. paid with time cards for the majority of my time on wow, it was mid cata before the first time i paid with a cc so for over 4 years i played wow without ever giving them my cc info... tell me again how 'everyone' does this lol
I bought WoW back before a box set of vanilla and BC even existed. I absolutely had to enter CC information before I could play.
Besides, even if what you say is true (I doubt it), that would only refute one of the MMOs I listed. So tell me again how "everyone" doesn't do this.
lets stick to successful ones none of which in memory have required this to get time already paid for
So you're the one that wanted examples of other MMOs that have done this, but now that I've provided examples you want to narrow the scope of this to only MMOs that you, personally, have deemed successful?
Care on sharing some of those examples? Oh and please don't mention FFXIV. You know, the MMO that failed so hard they decided to remake it.
For the record, I don't agree that this subscription requirement should happen. I just can't let people wrongly suggest that other MMOs haven't done this.
my bad i figured common sense would exclude failed and dead mmos from that list, my bad i assumed you had the cognitive power to understand that using a failure as an example is terrible logic.
Aaaaand you still don't provide your examples. But anyway, speaking of logic, since many of the MMOs I listed "failed" (which is opinion and not fact, by the way) long after their release, then it is impossible to logically contribute their failure to requiring a subscription in order to redeem their included 30 days. Therefore, their "failure" is irrelevant to this conversation. #logic
the fact that you use # while posting says a lot about you, none of it good. but moving on, one factor a failure does not make, true enough, however using failures as an example is in turn setting ones self up for failure.
If you show up to work drunk and when your boss confronts you and you tell him its all good the homeless guy on the corner used to do it all the time, its not really going to end well for you.
yay logic.
Logic. I don't think it means what you think it means. Logic is entirely absent from your post. The proof of this is the fact that you continue to insist that the MMOs I listed failed. You cannot, in any way, shape or form, prove this with actual fact. The exception is Vanguard, which I openly admitted has been shut down. You might also argue for Planetside 1, which sees no further development.
However, you cannot reasonably argue that Everquest 2, Lineage 2, Aion, Rift, or SWTOR have failed. The logical reason behind this is the fact that these games are still operating and still see active development. Tell me, what logical company would continue to host and develop a product that is losing them money? The only "failure" that matters to them is financial failure.
These MMOs would not still exist and see continued development if they did not make money. That is just about irrefutable. You can go on and on about how they failed in your eyes, but as long as they are not failures in the eyes of the company that creates it, it is not a failure.
Not with the tongue in cheek approach that Saints Row 4 used, but actually claimed that in interviews.
The game needed... I forget, I think a stable user base of 1m players to break even. It went F2P within a year of launch (or slightly after, again, this isn't something I spend a lot of time obsessing over.)
It was the fastest selling MMO of all time, and failed to meet sales projections. It was a failure, but it was a failure of it's own making and arrogance.
You're also arguing with the guy who didn't think Everquest still existed... so... eh.
what can i say, i hadnt heard anything about EQ aside from a few wow guildees reminiscing about the old days of EQ... you cant really say its something most folks talk about or get hyped over in this day and age its kinda like throwing in runescape as a name, you may know what it is but do you really keep up with something that old?
If you weren't old enough to play MMOs back then, I can see where you might have missed it, except, of course, the game is still getting development, (the others being Guild Wars and WoW... in case there's some confusion).
If you want to talk about failed MMOs, there are a bunch; Earth and Beyond, Hellgate London, Auto Assault and The Matrix Online all come to mind... though it's not as fun as pointing the finger at big names from the last couple years that are doing fine, but there are examples. Oh, and all of those (except HGL) did require you to cough up your credit card info before they'd let you have your free month. (HGL didn't have a free month, IIRC.)0 -
starkerealm wrote: »
EQ just celebrated it's 15th anniversary... so... yeah. It's still out there. EQ2 was one of the three major MMO releases of 2004/2005.michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
TOR was a failure by it's own metrics. Bioware hyped it, literally, as the greatest achievement in human history.darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »michaelfomenkocub18_ESO wrote: »darkkterror_ESO wrote: »Honestly? I don't really know. Maybe ask every other sub-based MMOs that did this. The only difference here is the temporary authorization. I don't remember any of the other sub MMOs I've played doing a temp auth, even for $1.
what other sub based mmo are you speaking of? WoW buy the game get the time included without buying more first
First of all, back when I bought WoW you absolutely had to input billing information first. This was back during BC. Sure, maybe they changed it at some point, but they definitely started out the same way.
As for other MMOs...SWTOR, Lineage 2, Aion, Rift, Vanguard, Everquest 2, Planetside 1. Obviously these are all F2P now (Vanguard is getting/has gotten shut down), but they all started out the same way.
i started in bc, never had to put in info, i bought the box set vanalia and bc from a store, came with 30 days, installed and created my account and started right up on my free 30 days. paid with time cards for the majority of my time on wow, it was mid cata before the first time i paid with a cc so for over 4 years i played wow without ever giving them my cc info... tell me again how 'everyone' does this lol
I bought WoW back before a box set of vanilla and BC even existed. I absolutely had to enter CC information before I could play.
Besides, even if what you say is true (I doubt it), that would only refute one of the MMOs I listed. So tell me again how "everyone" doesn't do this.
lets stick to successful ones none of which in memory have required this to get time already paid for
So you're the one that wanted examples of other MMOs that have done this, but now that I've provided examples you want to narrow the scope of this to only MMOs that you, personally, have deemed successful?
Care on sharing some of those examples? Oh and please don't mention FFXIV. You know, the MMO that failed so hard they decided to remake it.
For the record, I don't agree that this subscription requirement should happen. I just can't let people wrongly suggest that other MMOs haven't done this.
my bad i figured common sense would exclude failed and dead mmos from that list, my bad i assumed you had the cognitive power to understand that using a failure as an example is terrible logic.
Aaaaand you still don't provide your examples. But anyway, speaking of logic, since many of the MMOs I listed "failed" (which is opinion and not fact, by the way) long after their release, then it is impossible to logically contribute their failure to requiring a subscription in order to redeem their included 30 days. Therefore, their "failure" is irrelevant to this conversation. #logic
the fact that you use # while posting says a lot about you, none of it good. but moving on, one factor a failure does not make, true enough, however using failures as an example is in turn setting ones self up for failure.
If you show up to work drunk and when your boss confronts you and you tell him its all good the homeless guy on the corner used to do it all the time, its not really going to end well for you.
yay logic.
Logic. I don't think it means what you think it means. Logic is entirely absent from your post. The proof of this is the fact that you continue to insist that the MMOs I listed failed. You cannot, in any way, shape or form, prove this with actual fact. The exception is Vanguard, which I openly admitted has been shut down. You might also argue for Planetside 1, which sees no further development.
However, you cannot reasonably argue that Everquest 2, Lineage 2, Aion, Rift, or SWTOR have failed. The logical reason behind this is the fact that these games are still operating and still see active development. Tell me, what logical company would continue to host and develop a product that is losing them money? The only "failure" that matters to them is financial failure.
These MMOs would not still exist and see continued development if they did not make money. That is just about irrefutable. You can go on and on about how they failed in your eyes, but as long as they are not failures in the eyes of the company that creates it, it is not a failure.
Not with the tongue in cheek approach that Saints Row 4 used, but actually claimed that in interviews.
The game needed... I forget, I think a stable user base of 1m players to break even. It went F2P within a year of launch (or slightly after, again, this isn't something I spend a lot of time obsessing over.)
It was the fastest selling MMO of all time, and failed to meet sales projections. It was a failure, but it was a failure of it's own making and arrogance.
You're also arguing with the guy who didn't think Everquest still existed... so... eh.
what can i say, i hadnt heard anything about EQ aside from a few wow guildees reminiscing about the old days of EQ... you cant really say its something most folks talk about or get hyped over in this day and age its kinda like throwing in runescape as a name, you may know what it is but do you really keep up with something that old?
If you weren't old enough to play MMOs back then, I can see where you might have missed it, except, of course, the game is still getting development, (the others being Guild Wars and WoW... in case there's some confusion).
If you want to talk about failed MMOs, there are a bunch; Earth and Beyond, Hellgate London, Auto Assault and The Matrix Online all come to mind... though it's not as fun as pointing the finger at big names from the last couple years that are doing fine, but there are examples. Oh, and all of those (except HGL) did require you to cough up your credit card info before they'd let you have your free month. (HGL didn't have a free month, IIRC.)
lol love the slid in age reference there, i didnt play MMOs in those days i was a competitive CAL player at the time in the lower brackets for CSS, and a highschool student with a part time job so aside from scrims and matches i had no time to dedicate to a mmo.
and ill restate which has been stated here by others, im not sure if youre confused or remembering wrong but since early bc wow has not required a cc to receive your included 30 days of time with purchase.
P.S. its not a 'free' month you purchase it with the game. if it were 'free' you wouldnt have to pay anything for it0 -
ragerelorSoul Shriven
If WoW started out requiring CC info up front then changed to let you get the full 30 days "free" before requiring CC info. I started playing shortly after BC came out so I am not sure, but You have to wonder why they changed? I think it is because they got a lot of flack from it.
With a reported 10 million subscriber fan base that wow has, it is completely logical that what Blizzard does can be seen as industry setting. Just as any small business follows the larger business in common practices. The consumers are also expecting the same level of service from the smaller company that they would get with a larger company.
The sad thing is this is going to ruin the game for everyone. People are asking for refunds and not going to pay for subs. This means less money and less people working on the game for the people that like it. Those bugs are never going to get fixed, in a timely manner, without the staff of programmers.Edited by ragerelor on April 6, 2014 10:46PM1 -
its not going to kill eso but it is going to take quite a bit of the wind out of its sails... the concept of included time is to let people get a feel for the game before they commit more money to it, without that well its going to discourage growth... granted thats my only complaint so far past that aside from the kind of glitches and whatnot you should expect in any new game this feels like a solid mmo that will last... IF they dont pull more shady stuff like this0