Still no exp from monsters in dungeons

Gohlar

Never known an mmo to be this anti-group while leveling up. What does everyone think about this? This is the 1st game I can think of to remove exp gains in group content.

Edit: To give some perspective on this, if you kill 2 equal level monsters, you just earned more exp than an entire dungeon run.

Hawke

This MMO is anti-grind as far as killing mobs for xp.

Rock the quests out, that is where your XP is coming from.

Xionar

Hawke wrote: »

This MMO is anti-grind as far as killing mobs for xp.

Rock the quests out, that is where your XP is coming from.

@Hawke‌ Anti-grind lol, tell that to those that got to level 50 in one day :P the trick is knowing how to do it...and it's not in dungeons currently.

It isn't to hurt groups....I still leveled today just from dungeon quests alone. It was meant to hurt power levelers, which it had no effect on anyways.

Sarenia

Seconding the anti-grind comment.

Quest completions and progression of storylines is where your reward lies.

Vikova

It is trying to avoid a group powerleveling a lowbie friend. Quests are the intention.

Sarenia

Xionar wrote: »

@Hawke‌ Anti-grind lol, tell that to those that got to level 50 in one day :P the trick is knowing how to do it...and it's not in dungeons currently.

You're in a guild with a noteworthy PTS presence.

PTS know how to abuse, or *ahem* "best appreciate built-in features of the game" in order to level the absolute fastest way possible.

I know your urge will be to refute what I'm saying, but I would kindly reference you to the PTS players who made 50 within 48 hours of game launch.

Lets try and focus our comments on normal players, and not those whose whims and woes served to shape the game mechanics.

In a couple of months most PTS will be gone anyway due to boredom, once the filthy peasant common players begin to catch up, so that viewpoint is moot.

mutharex

Anti group MMO?? I suppose Cyrodiil, the Elite Zones in normal areas and the upcoming Adventure Zones must be features of another game

Gohlar

Hawke wrote: »

This MMO is anti-grind as far as killing mobs for xp.

Rock the quests out, that is where your XP is coming from.

Questing is great and I'm sure everyone will do it. But no exp from monsters in dungeons at all? I understand lowering it if people were using dungeons to level too quickly, but removing exp entirely seems an extremely poor way to solve the problem.

I mean...it's an mmo and doing the group dungeons doesn't award exp. Some people like running dungeons, why remove that option?

mutharex wrote: »

Anti group MMO?? I suppose Cyrodiil, the Elite Zones in normal areas and the upcoming Adventure Zones must be features of another game

We are talking about leveling up here and how this game discourages grouping to do so.

Xezzu

Sarenia wrote: »

Xionar wrote: »

@Hawke‌ Anti-grind lol, tell that to those that got to level 50 in one day :P the trick is knowing how to do it...and it's not in dungeons currently.

You're in a guild with a noteworthy PTS presence.

PTS know how to abuse, or *ahem* "best appreciate built-in features of the game" in order to level the absolute fastest way possible.

I know your urge will be to refute what I'm saying, but I would kindly reference you to the PTS players who made 50 within 48 hours of game launch.

Lets try and focus our comments on normal players, and not those whose whims and woes served to shape the game mechanics.

In a couple of months most PTS will be gone anyway due to boredom, once the filthy peasant common players begin to catch up, so that viewpoint is moot.

I was on the PTS and hated the very concept of powerleveling. I know your post didn't directly say that all of us PTSers (think I invented a word) were 'that way', but I wanted to make sure that that wasn't derived from others that may read it.

There was a time when dungeons DID give a size-able amount of experience, but what happened was (as has been mentioned) players used that as the only source of leveling and nothing else. Is there anything wrong with that? No, not directly I suppose, but clearly ZOS didn't like it and wants players to experience other parts of the game as well.

Naturally, players will find other ways to get their grind on. I'm certain that no matter how hard ZOS tried to eliminate all of the grinding options, players would still find an "optimal" way to level. It's just the facts of life.. so to speak.

Personally I want to experience the quests and such. I WANT to experience the world and the other players trying to do the same thing. I want to see all the hidden stuff and the secrets I may have never seen before. I just want to take my time in leveling. I want to see all the hard work ZOS put into the game. I'm not overly keen on the idea of leveling as fast as I can so I can... well, I don't know.

We all have different interests though, so I'm not saying that grinding shouldn't be allowed or that it's even wrong. We all paid for this game and we all have different visions of what 'fun' is, for sure. So if players find it fun to grind and level as fast as possible, I say go for it!

.....but you can't do it in dungeons.

Gohlar

If dungeons were giving too much exp, it would make sense to lower it. Removing it from the game makes no sense imo.

Can we stop wasting time with the either/or arguments when it comes to questing or doing dungeons? We should be able to do both.

Attorneyatlawl

Xionar wrote: »

Hawke wrote: »

This MMO is anti-grind as far as killing mobs for xp.

Rock the quests out, that is where your XP is coming from.

@Hawke‌ Anti-grind lol, tell that to those that got to level 50 in one day :P the trick is knowing how to do it...and it's not in dungeons currently.

It isn't to hurt groups....I still leveled today just from dungeon quests alone. It was meant to hurt power levelers, which it had no effect on anyways.

Quoted for truth. Vr in a day and a half here but I took it slow leveling, and did a lot of crafting. These changes just hurt mmo players, and do nothing about leveling speed which doesn't need to be screwed with in the first place.

Xezzu

Gohlar wrote: »

If dungeons were giving too much exp, it would make sense to lower it. Removing it from the game makes no sense imo.

If you are getting no XP, it may because of your level, because you DO get XP, but it is quite low.

Gohlar

Xezzu wrote: »

Gohlar wrote: »

If dungeons were giving too much exp, it would make sense to lower it. Removing it from the game makes no sense imo.

If you are getting no XP, it may because of your level, because you DO get XP, but it is quite low.

You get 3 exp per kill in the 1st set of dungeons.

You get 5 per kill in the 2nd.

This is at the appropriate level also. It's not technically zero, but it may as well be. The exp has effectively been removed. I do believe if more people realized this, more would care.

I don't blame people for not realizing what's happening as the UI doesn't give you much. You can mouse over to see how much exp you have.

Gohlar

Just to be clear, I don't think Dungeons should let you level faster than questing, it should just be an option when people feel like doing it.

It causes problems too. As a healer, I have to leave heals on my hotbar when I solo because it's the only way they will level up.

Hawke

In DDO there are no xp from monsters in quest "dungeons'. Not including the open areas. The goal is to finish the mission, whether you kill, farm or stealth through it.

Attorneyatlawl

Also, laughing at Sarenia and the exploit accusation vociferously. There is nothing special that I or anyone else did but play. No workaround or shady things, let alone exploits. We reported dozens of them during beta too, and we're picked for pts due to being useful bug reporters and feedbackers, nt just at random. I was for example in the initial handpicked batch. Just because you can't or don't enjoy one play style doesn't give you license to cry cheat and no life. You're new to the game, cool, I've been here coming on 9+ months now. No one cares if I'm here in a month or not. Why do you? I can't think of any reason but jealousy because if you had fun with your own play style you wouldn't be wasting time here bashing mine.

Gohlar

Hawke wrote: »

In DDO there are no xp from monsters in quest "dungeons'. Not including the open areas. The goal is to finish the mission, whether you kill, farm or stealth through it.

If there was some bonus for completing a dungeon, that would be ok too I guess. It just seems strange that grouping up and killing more challenging enemies results in no exp.

Xezzu

Gohlar wrote: »

Xezzu wrote: »

Gohlar wrote: »

If dungeons were giving too much exp, it would make sense to lower it. Removing it from the game makes no sense imo.

If you are getting no XP, it may because of your level, because you DO get XP, but it is quite low.

You get 3 exp per kill in the 1st set of dungeons.

You get 5 per kill in the 2nd.

This is at the appropriate level also. It's not technically zero, but it may as well be. The exp has effectively been removed. I do believe if more people realized this, more would care.

I don't blame people for not realizing what's happening as the UI doesn't give you much. You can mouse over to see how much exp you have.

I'm quite aware of the minuscule amount of XP we get. I guess we have different ideas of what "No XP" is. The best we can do though, I suppose, is express our concern over it and hope ZOS is willing to change it in some way. Either way, I think we can all agree that there are some things (even debated things) that we are used to in other MMOs that just aren't here, for better or worse. So it's taking some getting used to.

Attorneyatlawl

Gohlar wrote: »

Xezzu wrote: »

Gohlar wrote: »

If dungeons were giving too much exp, it would make sense to lower it. Removing it from the game makes no sense imo.

If you are getting no XP, it may because of your level, because you DO get XP, but it is quite low.

You get 3 exp per kill in the 1st set of dungeons.

You get 5 per kill in the 2nd.

This is at the appropriate level also. It's not technically zero, but it may as well be. The exp has effectively been removed. I do believe if more people realized this, more would care.

I don't blame people for not realizing what's happening as the UI doesn't give you much. You can mouse over to see how much exp you have.

Yep, it's silly to say you get xp in them, it's so close to zero as to be such, effectively.

Gohlar

Xezzu wrote: »

I'm quite aware of the minuscule amount of XP we get. I guess we have different ideas of what "No XP" is. The best we can do though, I suppose, is express our concern over it and hope ZOS is willing to change it in some way. Either way, I think we can all agree that there are some things (even debated things) that we are used to in other MMOs that just aren't here, for better or worse. So it's taking some getting used to.

It's semantics to say 3 exp isn't 0 exp. It's virtually nothing.

Do you think the game is better off not allowing exp gains in dungeons?

Gohlar

I think one of the reasons we don't see more people talking about this is that they simply haven't figured it out yet. With the UI being very minimal, I can understand that.

But to give some perspective, if you go kill a couple of monsters of equal level, you just earned more exp than an entire dungeon run.

That just seems wrong to me.

Xezzu

Gohlar wrote: »

Xezzu wrote: »

I'm quite aware of the minuscule amount of XP we get. I guess we have different ideas of what "No XP" is. The best we can do though, I suppose, is express our concern over it and hope ZOS is willing to change it in some way. Either way, I think we can all agree that there are some things (even debated things) that we are used to in other MMOs that just aren't here, for better or worse. So it's taking some getting used to.

It's semantics to say 3 exp isn't 0 exp. It's virtually nothing.

Do you think the game is better off not allowing exp gains in dungeons?

It's these sorts of viewpoints that really divide the community we have, I feel.

Do I like the little XP that we get from monsters in dungeons? No, I don't. I wish we had more, because I like doing those sorts of things as a group. Hell, I'm a healer and have spent the past couple of days just doing dungeons because I know healers and tanks are in shortage.. they always are. Maybe even help with some of my PTS experience. Do I expect recognition for that? No, not at all, but more XP woulda been nice.

You're right in saying 3xp is "virtually nothing". I agree, and I didn't mean to imply something else, but it still IS XP in the sense that, from my perspective, just trying to help out, I got something for all the monsters I have helped kill in doing the first few dungeons a whole lot.

SURE! I would have loved to have more, who wouldn't?

My point is for you it's semantics, for me it's "something". I'd like more, but what I did get I find valuable due to the conditions.

Gohlar

The entire run will earn you less than 1% of a level.

The real question should be: Is the game better off like this?

Xezzu

Gohlar wrote: »

The entire run will earn you less than 1% of a level.

The real question should be: Is the game better off like this?

That is a good perspective to look at I think. I certainly appreciate your being civil in discussing this with me!

I personally have no issue with it. I guess I just don't see them as something intended to be done over and over again. We DO get a skill point out of them, and a quest for your first time, so I suppose for me that's enough, but I do recognize it may not be enough for others.

(But I wouldn't argue with more XP!)

Gohlar

Thanks for you input Xezzu.

I think one of the problems is, there isn't much else to do with a group. Questing together is cumbersome with phasing and everyone needing to be on the same steps.

Also, some people simply like dungeons! They are usually one of the highlights of an mmo. It's frustrating too because the dungeons here are actually pretty good and would be very fun way to progress for a lot of people.

Removing the exp due to exploiters seems a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Hawke

Folks, this game is unlike most others on the market today. The system works, you just need to adapt to it. If you cannot, then that is your loss. I am sorry.

redwoodtreesprite

Hawke wrote: »

Folks, this game is unlike most others on the market today. The system works, you just need to adapt to it. If you cannot, then that is your loss. I am sorry.

LOL, if too many players who like to group don't like it, it will be the game company's loss.

I look at it in a diff way than most. If I do just a soloable dungeon before the mobs become trivial, it means I can fight the mobs for a very long time and still get drop loot. Giving me deconstruct stuff and things to sell.

Gohlar

Hawke wrote: »

Folks, this game is unlike most others on the market today. The system works, you just need to adapt to it. If you cannot, then that is your loss. I am sorry.

That kind of blanket logic isn't terribly useful. Alienating players who like to group up in mmos may not be the wisest course of action.

Hawke

@Gohlar it isn't alienating. I would love if 10 million people played and enjoyed this game. But the combat system and the method for which xp is obtained just cannot be realistically changed at this point. We are only going in circles here.

Gohlar

Hawke wrote: »

@Gohlar it isn't alienating. I would love if 10 million people played and enjoyed this game. But the combat system and the method for which xp is obtained just cannot be realistically changed at this point. We are only going in circles here.

I don't think you understand what's going on here in terms of this issue. This was not the way it always was. They could easily change this, the way it is now was a last minute change. I disagree that removing exp gains from group content was part of some kind of master plan, in fact that is not the case at all.

It was a knee-jerk overreaction that should be undone. This is a big mistake they are making that will only drive people away.

Hiply

Hawke wrote: »

@Gohlar it isn't alienating. I would love if 10 million people played and enjoyed this game. But the combat system and the method for which xp is obtained just cannot be realistically changed at this point. We are only going in circles here.

Any variation of "If you don't like how the game works as-is then leave" is alienating. Saying it's not is like saying "No offense, but...<insert offensive comment here>"