Gifting Policy Awareness

Gold25Dog · January 2

[snip]

I would like to communicate to ESO leadership that this policy is unacceptable and needs to change - either be clear on what the requirements for gifting are or change your gifting mechanic in a way that addresses the issues you are attempting to subvert.

[snip]

Thank You for your attention

Adam
[edited for bashing & petition]

Gabriel_H · January 2

This was explained two years ago:

Gold25Dog · January 2

Gabriel_H wrote: »

This was explained two years ago:

They have a broken gifting mechanic that they are unwilling to fix and it keeps legit players like myself and others from enjoying this part of the game.

It's lame and unacceptable that a gaming studio cannot solve abuses of a mechanic in their own game other than to just turn the mechanic off.

Just remove gifting completely from everyone - make it fair at least.

Gabriel_H · January 2

Gold25Dog wrote: »

They have a broken gifting mechanic that they are unwilling to fix and it keeps legit players like myself and others from enjoying this part of the game.

It's lame and unacceptable that a gaming studio cannot solve abuses of a mechanic in their own game other than to just turn the mechanic off.

Just remove gifting completely from everyone - make it fair at least.

All systems are exploitable if someone is dedicated enough. I'm not happy that my bank occassionally flags a possible fraudulent payment, but I'm also grateful that such a check exists to prevent bad actors from exploiting the system - because that check IS the fix to the abuse.

You are complaining about a lack of transparency that if given would help the bad actors. You also appear to be taking it as a personal afront that you can't access, what is an unitended consequence (the exchange of gold for crown store items) of the system that makes up 0.0000000000001% of the game as if it is the only reason you play.

Now, ZOS could implement an official gifting system, much like they have for mail items, that has a C.O.D option when sending the gift, but that doesn't solve the initial problem of people getting crowns that they should not have. I have no idea how they are managing to do so, but it's an online system and therefore is hackable.

So, while ZOS could do more to protect the buyers of "gifts" (oxymoronic), they cannot stop the root cause which is the aberrant crowns. If you know a way to make an online system 100% secure then send ZOS an email, along with one to the NSA - because heck, even they have been hacked - or you can simply accept that for whatever reason ZOS just won't allow you to spend your crowns in this manner.

Gold25Dog · January 2

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Gold25Dog wrote: »

They have a broken gifting mechanic that they are unwilling to fix and it keeps legit players like myself and others from enjoying this part of the game.

It's lame and unacceptable that a gaming studio cannot solve abuses of a mechanic in their own game other than to just turn the mechanic off.

Just remove gifting completely from everyone - make it fair at least.

All systems are exploitable if someone is dedicated enough. I'm not happy that my bank occassionally flags a possible fraudulent payment, but I'm also grateful that such a check exists to prevent bad actors from exploiting the system - because that check IS the fix to the abuse.

You are complaining about a lack of transparency that if given would help the bad actors. You also appear to be taking it as a personal afront that you can't access, what is an unitended consequence (the exchange of gold for crown store items) of the system that makes up 0.0000000000001% of the game as if it is the only reason you play.

Now, ZOS could implement an official gifting system, much like they have for mail items, that has a C.O.D option when sending the gift, but that doesn't solve the initial problem of people getting crowns that they should not have. I have no idea how they are managing to do so, but it's an online system and therefore is hackable.

So, while ZOS could do more to protect the buyers of "gifts" (oxymoronic), they cannot stop the root cause which is the aberrant crowns. If you know a way to make an online system 100% secure then send ZOS an email, along with one to the NSA - because heck, even they have been hacked - or you can simply accept that for whatever reason ZOS just won't allow you to spend your crowns in this manner.

To be honest - I do not believe the bad actors reason given - it is that they do not want to invest money in tightening up the gifting mechanic.

In the other thread I mentioned I do not want to send gold or crowns - I want to spend them on things like mounts and skins and items and send those as gifts - surely they can solve for this.

Gold25Dog · January 2

I would add here - that aside from the story aspect of the game running with my friends and being able to gift my less fortunate friends is the second largest thing I do in game - and I do take it as a personal affront - I have emailed and actually spoken on the phone directly with their support people on this issue - they refuse to budge or give it the time of day (or unlock gifting on my account, or tell me directly how to unlock it) - this means they do not value my gaming experience.

their answer verbatim: 'Just keep playing and eventually it will unlock'

really ? I see threads on there where people have played for years and still do not have access - I am a casual player I don't have time to sit around playing until this mystery criteria suddenly unlocks.... that is not ok - it is not valuing me or others as legit players and it is not cool on any level. they need to fix their game full stop.

Soarora · January 2

Gold25Dog wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Gold25Dog wrote: »

They have a broken gifting mechanic that they are unwilling to fix and it keeps legit players like myself and others from enjoying this part of the game.

It's lame and unacceptable that a gaming studio cannot solve abuses of a mechanic in their own game other than to just turn the mechanic off.

Just remove gifting completely from everyone - make it fair at least.

All systems are exploitable if someone is dedicated enough. I'm not happy that my bank occassionally flags a possible fraudulent payment, but I'm also grateful that such a check exists to prevent bad actors from exploiting the system - because that check IS the fix to the abuse.

You are complaining about a lack of transparency that if given would help the bad actors. You also appear to be taking it as a personal afront that you can't access, what is an unitended consequence (the exchange of gold for crown store items) of the system that makes up 0.0000000000001% of the game as if it is the only reason you play.

Now, ZOS could implement an official gifting system, much like they have for mail items, that has a C.O.D option when sending the gift, but that doesn't solve the initial problem of people getting crowns that they should not have. I have no idea how they are managing to do so, but it's an online system and therefore is hackable.

So, while ZOS could do more to protect the buyers of "gifts" (oxymoronic), they cannot stop the root cause which is the aberrant crowns. If you know a way to make an online system 100% secure then send ZOS an email, along with one to the NSA - because heck, even they have been hacked - or you can simply accept that for whatever reason ZOS just won't allow you to spend your crowns in this manner.

To be honest - I do not believe the bad actors reason given - it is that they do not want to invest money in tightening up the gifting mechanic.

In the other thread I mentioned I do not want to send gold or crowns - I want to spend them on things like mounts and skins and items and send those as gifts - surely they can solve for this.

There 100% was a bad actor problem. I remember seeing accounts (now gone, shocker) in one of the crown selling discords that were the most blatantly obvious RMT accounts ever. They always seemed to have infinite crowns on multiple platforms and advertised often. I do place blame on the discord in question for not banning the accounts.

hiyde · January 2

Let's at least all get on the same page in regards to how we got here (at least my understanding of it):

Fraudsters use stolen credit card numbers to buy a virtual gaming currency (Crowns).
They sell the crowns/crown store gifts via illegal websites for real life cash (a TOS violation from both parties).
The real life currency has now been laundered/converted to cash in a way that's pretty much impossible to trace.

This became so rampant that it was putting the ZOS' merchant accounts in danger. Credit Card companies are only going to write off so much fraud before they revoke a merchant's account if they don't feel the merchant is properly trying to address the issue.

ZOS cut off *all* crown gifting while they worked on a solution to make it far more difficult for this laundering to occur.

The end result is this secretive set of checkboxes your account must meet in order to be approved to gift crowns.

I certainly understand the frustration from those who've been long time players / invested a lot of money into the game /etc. It all sounds good on paper until you're the one being denied the privelege while feeling the basic message of "We can't rule out you're a criminal'. (and I say this as someone who has had this privilege since the start).

I'm not an expert in this field and I don't know what the "better" ways to do this would be that would allow for more people to qualify without taking the levels of fraudulent transactions to a point of jeopardizing their merchant account(s).

There's also been passionate cases plead here on the forums and I remember one case where ZOS relented, only to publicly post a day or so later that, because they had concerns the story might be fake, they monitored the account and the person turned out to be commiting fraud. tbh, that all felt a bit performative to me that they would openly "Name & Shame" someone so that they could say "see, this is why we can't have benefit of the doubt and must follow our secret rules to the letter".

I kinda walked away from that thinking "If you can detect that fast...". But I digress.

It's definitely a challening issue and perhaps the fairest answer, if they can't find some middle ground to at least cautiously let folks like the OP gift while being monitored closely, is to disable crown gifting for all. But that comes at the expense of losing revenue and all of the players who do love using the gifting system.

So I dunno. I feel that ZOS has been pretty transparent on all of this and *they* feel they're doing what they can to walk this tightrope.

P.S. For those somehow think that ZOS is getting their jollies by gleefully denying people access to Crown Gifting, every single one they don't approve = lost revenue. What would be the motivation to do that to themselves for no good reason?

Gold25Dog · January 2

I am not saying there was not a bad actor problem - but how is that my problem to solve? An infinite crowns fraud/abuse would not be worth anything if you can't send crowns to others right ?

All I want to do is buy stuff from the store and send it to friends - that is not much to ask - I do not need to send them gold or crowns. Yes all games are exploitable but the bottom line here is that they do not want to spend the time or effort to improve the gaming experience in this area - if that is the decision then just remove gifting for everyone from the game - at least make it fair - I would be ok with that - mystery criteria or not investing in a fix that works for everyone tells me that in this area they really could care less about the players - and you know I have been going through some of these threads trying to cool off some on this issue because it has me red hot mad atm and what am I seeing ? I am not seeing how great the game is and how people just can't wait to play - I can tell you that - what I am seeing is a plethora of posts about how people like the game and hate to leave but <fll-in-the-blank> issue has persisted and they are ready to walk away from it. I will eventually get there myself - is it worth getting upset over something that the management could care less about ? Probably not - it is my love of the game that has me here trying to bring attention to something.

Gold25Dog · January 2

hiyde wrote: »

Let's at least all get on the same page in regards to how we got here (at least my understanding of it):

Fraudsters use stolen credit card numbers to buy a virtual gaming currency (Crowns).
They sell the crowns via illegal websites for real life cash (a TOS violation from both parties).
The real life currency has now been laundered/converted to cash in a way that's pretty much impossible to trace.

This became so rampant that it was putting the ZOS' merchant accounts in danger. Credit Card companies are only going to write off so much fraud before they revoke a merchant's account if they don't feel the merchant is properly trying to address the issue.

ZOS cut off *all* crown gifting while they worked on a solution to make it far more difficult for this laundering to occur.

The end result is this secretive set of checkboxes your account must meet in order to be approved to gift crowns.

I certainly understand the frustration from those who've been long time players / invested a lot of money into the game /etc. It all sounds good on paper until you're the one being denied the privelege while feeling the basic message of "We can't rule out you're a criminal'. (and I say this as someone who has had this privilege since the start).

I'm not an expert in this field and I don't know what the "better" ways to do this would be that would allow for more people to qualify without taking the levels of fraudulent transactions to a point of jeopardizing their merchant account(s).

There's also been passionate cases plead here on the forums and I remember one case where ZOS relented, only to publicly post a day or so later that, because they had concerns the story might be fake, they monitored the account and the person turned out to be commiting fraud. tbh, that all felt a bit performative to me that they would openly "Name & Shame" someone so that they could say "see, this is why we can't have benefit of the doubt and must follow our secret rules to the letter".

I kinda walked away from that thinking "If you can detect that fast...". But I digress.

It's definitely a challening issue and perhaps the fairest answer, if they can't find some middle ground to at least cautiously let folks like the OP gift while being monitored closely, is to disable crown gifting for all. But that comes at the expense of losing revenue and all of the players who do love using the gifting system.

So I dunno. I feel that ZOS has been pretty transparent on all of this and *they* feel they're doing what they can to walk this tightrope.

What if they only allowed gifting of items that were not crowns or gold from the store? Where is the exploit there ? I am sure someone could buy something from someone else outside channel violating the TOS but if you limited the ability to gift to only so many per account - it could even be ridiculously low like 1 a day or 1 a week - that I could still work with - but not at all ? Also - I don't think they are acting in good faith on this issue - there was a decision made to do this cop out approach rather than to actually try and forge a workable solution. Hell I would do what they do for adult sites these days and link my stuff to my irl details if that is what it takes but that is not even an option - the answer here is that it is because they do not care - they don't want to invest in it, they only want to make money off of it with no risk - who is to say if one of their accounts that does get gifting through whatever mystery criteria is not a bad one ? How are they catching that ? Why can't that be used at scale..?

hiyde · January 2

Gold25Dog wrote: »

I am not saying there was not a bad actor problem - but how is that my problem to solve? An infinite crowns fraud/abuse would not be worth anything if you can't send crowns to others right ?

All I want to do is buy stuff from the store and send it to friends - that is not much to ask - I do not need to send them gold or crowns. Yes all games are exploitable but the bottom line here is that they do not want to spend the time or effort to improve the gaming experience in this area - if that is the decision then just remove gifting for everyone from the game - at least make it fair - I would be ok with that - mystery criteria or not investing in a fix that works for everyone tells me that in this area they really could care less about the players - and you know I have been going through some of these threads trying to cool off some on this issue because it has me red hot mad atm and what am I seeing ? I am not seeing how great the game is and how people just can't wait to play - I can tell you that - what I am seeing is a plethora of posts about how people like the game and hate to leave but <fll-in-the-blank> issue has persisted and they are ready to walk away from it. I will eventually get there myself - is it worth getting upset over something that the management could care less about ? Probably not - it is my love of the game that has me here trying to bring attention to something.

I'm sorry but (see my post above), but "buy(ing) stuff from the (crown) store to send it to friends" is exactly how the fraud is occurring.

Also, they *have* put significant time and effort into this issue. We can feel perhaps it wasn't enough, or they didn't come up with the best solution, but they definitely put in effort to get this turned on for as many people as they felt possible. They have every motivation (read: $$) to do that.

If someone knows of a "fix that work with everyone", I'm sure everyone, including ZOS, would love the details. It's clear they've struggled with this.

hiyde · January 2

Gold25Dog wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

Let's at least all get on the same page in regards to how we got here (at least my understanding of it):

What if they only allowed gifting of items that were not crowns or gold from the store? Where is the exploit there ? I am sure someone could buy something from someone else outside channel violating the TOS but if you limited the ability to gift to only so many per account - it could even be ridiculously low like 1 a day or 1 a week - that I could still work with - but not at all ? Also - I don't think they are acting in good faith on this issue - there was a decision made to do this cop out approach rather than to actually try and forge a workable solution. Hell I would do what they do for adult sites these days and link my stuff to my irl details if that is what it takes but that is not even an option - the answer here is that it is because they do not care - they don't want to invest in it, they only want to make money off of it with no risk - who is to say if one of their accounts that does get gifting through whatever mystery criteria is not a bad one ? How are they catching that ? Why can't that be used at scale..?

Again, gifting of Crown items was one of the ways this fraud was being executed. That's the exploit.

I'd love to see them find a way to allow for people who haven't met all the criteria to still have some way to gift. Whether it's "by request" via a ticket for each gift, or some sort of limit, whatever. By their own words, they are able to monitor accounts like this to see if fraud ensues. And perhaps that gets into manpower/budget issues.

But I don't at all agree that "they do not care". Every person denied is lost revenue. If they knew of a safe way to enable this for all, that wouldn't allow fraud levels to rise back to the alarming rate they were at, I'm sure they'd have done it. It's free revenue for them.

Gold25Dog · January 2

hiyde wrote: »

Gold25Dog wrote: »

I am not saying there was not a bad actor problem - but how is that my problem to solve? An infinite crowns fraud/abuse would not be worth anything if you can't send crowns to others right ?

All I want to do is buy stuff from the store and send it to friends - that is not much to ask - I do not need to send them gold or crowns. Yes all games are exploitable but the bottom line here is that they do not want to spend the time or effort to improve the gaming experience in this area - if that is the decision then just remove gifting for everyone from the game - at least make it fair - I would be ok with that - mystery criteria or not investing in a fix that works for everyone tells me that in this area they really could care less about the players - and you know I have been going through some of these threads trying to cool off some on this issue because it has me red hot mad atm and what am I seeing ? I am not seeing how great the game is and how people just can't wait to play - I can tell you that - what I am seeing is a plethora of posts about how people like the game and hate to leave but <fll-in-the-blank> issue has persisted and they are ready to walk away from it. I will eventually get there myself - is it worth getting upset over something that the management could care less about ? Probably not - it is my love of the game that has me here trying to bring attention to something.

I'm sorry but (see my post above), but "buy(ing) stuff from the (crown) store to send it to friends" is exactly how the fraud is occurring.

Also, they *have* put significant time and effort into this issue. We can feel perhaps it wasn't enough, or they didn't come up with the best solution, but they definitely put in effort to get this turned on for as many people as they felt possible. They have every motivation (read: $$) to do that.

If someone knows of a "fix that work with everyone", I'm sure everyone, including ZOS, would love the details. It's clear they've struggled with this.

Ok so let me get this straight - someone buys something out of the store for someone else and that is fraud?

I can see where there would be people that would run a side hustle on this maybe against stupid people?? but that said - if they are spending money to have someone else buy something for them why are they not just buying it themselves ? I am talking items here - like once bought you can't buy them for the person again so where is the issue? Help me understand how this is a liability for them?

I don't believe for a second that they have put hardly any effort into making gifting fair for everyone by the way - in fact their answer to their abuse issue was to just turn it off.... how is that time and effort exactly?

Gold25Dog · January 2

By the way all - I apologize if I am aggressive here - it is not meant to be at other people on here that care - I am just so mad at ZOS on this issue that it is bleeding through. I have sunk a lot of money in buying content and not as much time as some here in playing the game and it feels like I may need to walk away from it because they can't fix something as simple as a gifting mechanic. Game play content aside - just on store purchases I know I have spent in excess of 500 dollars and probably a lot more (I am just thinking of purchases I made before I got mad at them). That is a lot of money to spend to have them come back and tell you no you can't gift because we don't want to invest in a solution.

hiyde · January 2

I totally get it, @Gold25Dog. Your situation wouldn't feel good for anyone.

Any loyal, paying, non-criminal customer being denied a feature others get because they can't be sure You're Not a Criminal is going to feel bad. NO ONE is going to feel great in that situation. And it's double sad that criminals will roleplay as people like you to gain access.

But I also understand what ZOS is up against and i have watched them attempt to find a middle ground. I'm no expert on how all of this works today, but at one point in my life, I did work for AmEx and have a little bit of insight into fraud prevention / merchant relationships. ZOS is definitely in a tough spot.

I hope constructive feedback continues to encourage them to evolve this program and find "safe-ish" ways to get more people authenticated.

Radiate77 · January 2

Here are five of the “known” criteria:
-No terms-of-service violations.
-Must have had your account for 180 days.
-Must have had ESO+ at some point.
-Must have a record of purchases.
-Must have consistent log-in data.

If you’re failing at any of the above, chances are, that is what your problem is.

Gold25Dog · January 2

hiyde wrote: »

I totally get it, @Gold25Dog. Your situation wouldn't feel good for anyone.

Any loyal, paying, non-criminal customer being denied a feature others get because they can't be sure You're Not a Criminal is going to feel bad. NO ONE is going to feel great in that situation. And it's double sad that criminals will roleplay as people like you to gain access.

But I also understand what ZOS is up against and i have watched them attempt to find a middle ground. I'm no expert on how all of this works today, but at one point in my life, I did work for AmEx and have a little bit of insight into fraud prevention / merchant relationships. ZOS is definitely in a tough spot.

I hope contstructive feedback continues to encourage them to evolve this program and find "safe-ish" ways to get more people authenticated.

I have worked in fintech for the last 20 years - its one of the reasons I have money to spend but no time to play lol

So what is the deal here on the fraud - are they buying the in-game currency and then disputing the charges once the money has been spent and can't be recovered ? I would think they could put in-game transaction caps and delays that would frustrate fraudsters to the point of it not being viable - buying something for your account sure right away, something for someone else then the just purchased currency needs to cure past the detection window before it can be used that way (for a gift) or the gift can cure - aka the fruits of it are not released until the original transaction has cured - I would be down for that because I could still gift it would just not be immediately available.

SilverBride · January 2

From what I gather, it's more of a money laundering concern.

Gold25Dog · January 2

SilverBride wrote: »

From what I gather, it's more of a money laundering concern.

So AML is something that is typically done via transaction monitoring - the merchant's banks should be performing this as part of their due diligence etc.

I would need to know how ZOS is moving their funds to be able to speak to the best way to address that behavior - that said I do not believe they are beholden to perform any AML activities as they are not a financial institution.

If they did want to work with their bank to limit that kind of activity they would enforce activity caps that align with their financial institutions rules - ie x amount per day/week/month before you get cut off - this is not difficult to do - what is more difficult is if the fraudsters have access to an array of accounts and can layer the activity across them all (speaking about ZOS accounts here). To be honest in this situation they really need to invest in limiting their users to a singular verified account - not only for AML purposes but also there is not really any valid reason for a person to have more than one account with ZOS - it has the potential to affect players in ways outside of the financial sphere.

Kiyakotari · January 2

I play on multiple accounts, and some of them have gifting enabled. Some do not. I've just accepted at this point that if I get crowns on the accounts that can't gift, they'll only be used on those accounts. It's not ideal for me, especially in instances where I pay for ESO+ on one of those accounts and then might want to use the ESO+ crown allotment to gift something to another one of my accounts, but it's not the end of the world. I am glad that ZOS was able to address the fraud issues and potential money laundering that was happening, as I'd much rather be without gifting than be without ESO at all.

Gold25Dog · January 2

Kiyakotari wrote: »

I play on multiple accounts, and some of them have gifting enabled. Some do not. I've just accepted at this point that if I get crowns on the accounts that can't gift, they'll only be used on those accounts. It's not ideal for me, especially in instances where I pay for ESO+ on one of those accounts and then might want to use the ESO+ crown allotment to gift something to another one of my accounts, but it's not the end of the world. I am glad that ZOS was able to address the fraud issues and potential money laundering that was happening, as I'd much rather be without gifting than be without ESO at all.

Just out of curiosity - why the multiple accounts ? I am trying to understand what the use case here would be.....

Gold25Dog · January 2

Radiate77 wrote: »

Here are five of the “known” criteria:
-No terms-of-service violations.
-Must have had your account for 180 days.
-Must have had ESO+ at some point.
-Must have a record of purchases.
-Must have consistent log-in data.

If you’re failing at any of the above, chances are, that is what your problem is.

Good information - I think of all the above I am only missing the ESO+ sub

I have sent money to a friend so they could get as a gift to them (for their birthday I think..? I can't remember it has been awhile ago) but I never purchased for myself and then when I realized the mystery gift criteria was a thing I stopped buying stuff unless it was something in the store I was really drawn to (even mad, there are some things I can't pass up). I think tho that is why I did not ever sign up for the sub because I was mad at that point and refused to spend anymore money.

Thank you for this info - I might invest in the sub as a last ditch hurrah to see if it unlocks - I have pretty much played the game out level wise (not even close content wise tho)

Gadamlub14_ESO · January 2

Gold25Dog wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

I totally get it, @Gold25Dog. Your situation wouldn't feel good for anyone.

Any loyal, paying, non-criminal customer being denied a feature others get because they can't be sure You're Not a Criminal is going to feel bad. NO ONE is going to feel great in that situation. And it's double sad that criminals will roleplay as people like you to gain access.

But I also understand what ZOS is up against and i have watched them attempt to find a middle ground. I'm no expert on how all of this works today, but at one point in my life, I did work for AmEx and have a little bit of insight into fraud prevention / merchant relationships. ZOS is definitely in a tough spot.

I hope contstructive feedback continues to encourage them to evolve this program and find "safe-ish" ways to get more people authenticated.

I have worked in fintech for the last 20 years - its one of the reasons I have money to spend but no time to play lol

So what is the deal here on the fraud - are they buying the in-game currency and then disputing the charges once the money has been spent and can't be recovered ? I would think they could put in-game transaction caps and delays that would frustrate fraudsters to the point of it not being viable - buying something for your account sure right away, something for someone else then the just purchased currency needs to cure past the detection window before it can be used that way (for a gift) or the gift can cure - aka the fruits of it are not released until the original transaction has cured - I would be down for that because I could still gift it would just not be immediately available.

people would steal credit card info via various means.
They'd buy crowns with the stolen cards
They'd sell stuff at a discount via gold selling sites and the like via the gifting mechanics.
Stolen cards then get chargebacks and Zos takes the hit.

Now look, there are too many things to count to get mad at zos over. but seeing you get into such a tizzy over gifting to where you are spamming half the forum about it is definitely the least of all things to get mad over, and to be frank, is downright sus and reminds me of the guy Zos named and shammed for making a similar stink only to get caught RMTing within a week after they gave him gifting access.

Gold25Dog · January 2

Gadamlub14_ESO wrote: »

Gold25Dog wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

I totally get it, @Gold25Dog. Your situation wouldn't feel good for anyone.

Any loyal, paying, non-criminal customer being denied a feature others get because they can't be sure You're Not a Criminal is going to feel bad. NO ONE is going to feel great in that situation. And it's double sad that criminals will roleplay as people like you to gain access.

But I also understand what ZOS is up against and i have watched them attempt to find a middle ground. I'm no expert on how all of this works today, but at one point in my life, I did work for AmEx and have a little bit of insight into fraud prevention / merchant relationships. ZOS is definitely in a tough spot.

I hope contstructive feedback continues to encourage them to evolve this program and find "safe-ish" ways to get more people authenticated.

I have worked in fintech for the last 20 years - its one of the reasons I have money to spend but no time to play lol

So what is the deal here on the fraud - are they buying the in-game currency and then disputing the charges once the money has been spent and can't be recovered ? I would think they could put in-game transaction caps and delays that would frustrate fraudsters to the point of it not being viable - buying something for your account sure right away, something for someone else then the just purchased currency needs to cure past the detection window before it can be used that way (for a gift) or the gift can cure - aka the fruits of it are not released until the original transaction has cured - I would be down for that because I could still gift it would just not be immediately available.

people would steal credit card info via various means.
They'd buy crowns with the stolen cards
They'd sell stuff at a discount via gold selling sites and the like via the gifting mechanics.
Stolen cards then get chargebacks and Zos takes the hit.

Now look, there are too many things to count to get mad at zos over. but seeing you get into such a tizzy over gifting to where you are spamming half the forum about it is definitely the least of all things to get mad over, and to be frank, is downright sus and reminds me of the guy Zos named and shammed for making a similar stink only to get caught RMTing within a week after they gave him gifting access.

You can be sus that is your right

that said I am real and if you want to find out I will share my irl details in dm with you - and yes I am being active because it is a wound I have let fester for too long - so apologies for yall getting the brunt of it but I am seriously about to walk away from this game and that really sucks for me - if you want to refund the 500+ dollars I have spent on in-game stuff not to mention the game itsself and we can talk about me going away without any more words, otherwise until I burn out you are going to be stuck with me on this....

Gold25Dog · January 2

Gold25Dog wrote: »

Gadamlub14_ESO wrote: »

Gold25Dog wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

I totally get it, @Gold25Dog. Your situation wouldn't feel good for anyone.

Any loyal, paying, non-criminal customer being denied a feature others get because they can't be sure You're Not a Criminal is going to feel bad. NO ONE is going to feel great in that situation. And it's double sad that criminals will roleplay as people like you to gain access.

But I also understand what ZOS is up against and i have watched them attempt to find a middle ground. I'm no expert on how all of this works today, but at one point in my life, I did work for AmEx and have a little bit of insight into fraud prevention / merchant relationships. ZOS is definitely in a tough spot.

I hope contstructive feedback continues to encourage them to evolve this program and find "safe-ish" ways to get more people authenticated.

I have worked in fintech for the last 20 years - its one of the reasons I have money to spend but no time to play lol

So what is the deal here on the fraud - are they buying the in-game currency and then disputing the charges once the money has been spent and can't be recovered ? I would think they could put in-game transaction caps and delays that would frustrate fraudsters to the point of it not being viable - buying something for your account sure right away, something for someone else then the just purchased currency needs to cure past the detection window before it can be used that way (for a gift) or the gift can cure - aka the fruits of it are not released until the original transaction has cured - I would be down for that because I could still gift it would just not be immediately available.

people would steal credit card info via various means.
They'd buy crowns with the stolen cards
They'd sell stuff at a discount via gold selling sites and the like via the gifting mechanics.
Stolen cards then get chargebacks and Zos takes the hit.

Now look, there are too many things to count to get mad at zos over. but seeing you get into such a tizzy over gifting to where you are spamming half the forum about it is definitely the least of all things to get mad over, and to be frank, is downright sus and reminds me of the guy Zos named and shammed for making a similar stink only to get caught RMTing within a week after they gave him gifting access.

You can be sus that is your right that said I am real and if you want to find out I will share my irl details in dm with you - and yes I am being active because it is a wound I have let fester for too long - so apologies for yall getting the brunt of it but I am seriously about to walk away from this game and that really sucks for me - if you want to refund the 500+ dollars I have spent on in-game stuff not to mention the game itsself and we can talk about me going away without any more words, otherwise until I burn out you are going to be stuck with me on this....

By the way to any ZOS person reading this - that is an open invitation to refund my spend on this game and I will be more than happy to go away without another word. You can look up my details and know what the number is - an actually I am kind of curious myself as to how much money I have actually spent - I know it is a lot more than 500 bucks tho.

EDIT: Just added up via steam the Crown Pack purchases on my account from 2022 until now - this does not include the cost of the game (base and expansions), this number is crown pack purchase only:

1482.14 USD

that includes Ohio tax but I think y'all get the drift. I have an investment in this game.

EDIT #2:
According to steam I bought the base game in September of 2018 - I knew I had it before gifting was turned off but I did not know I had it that long before. That makes this whole gifting thing even way more ridiculous. I bad mouthed ZOS in one of pinned threads, nothing I said was untrue, just not flattering - lets see if they boot me rather than deal with me. I feel like this gifting mystery criteria is veiled discrimination.

queenlarxene · January 2

I don't think that having spent any particular amount of money on the game makes it any more understandable for you to chuck this much of a wobbly over a fairly small thing. Like, this impacts how you enjoy the game, I get it. But like, if you are this upset over it then that's super unhealthy and you should find ways to spend your time that don't make you feel that way?

The money is spent, and nobody at Zenimax has the ability to refund the money that you've presumably spent over the entire time you've played for this reason.

I doubt all of this ranting and complaining is even making you feel any better anyway...

Gold25Dog · January 2

queenlarxene wrote: »

I don't think that having spent any particular amount of money on the game makes it any more understandable for you to chuck this much of a wobbly over a fairly small thing. Like, this impacts how you enjoy the game, I get it. But like, if you are this upset over it then that's super unhealthy and you should find ways to spend your time that don't make you feel that way?

The money is spent, and nobody at Zenimax has the ability to refund the money that you've presumably spent over the entire time you've played for this reason.

I doubt all of this ranting and complaining is even making you feel any better anyway...

If you sunk 1400 bucks into something and there was a feature you could have access to but were denied but they can't tell you why I think maybe that would not sit well with you either. they don't even need to tell me the list of things - I just need to know what I need to do (aka whats missing) but they refuse to do even that - I have raised tickets mutlple times and even threw a fit with them on the phone over it and they still won't come off it. What do I need to do to make this happen ? They need a photo id? my social? blood sample? I will do it already - its the we can't tell you that is driving me mental.

queenlarxene · January 2

I do get that (I've had ESO+ for years and I've bought multiple chapters when they were fresh out, I've certainly spent far more than my fair share on this game), but it's also been clearly explained WHY they won't tell you (or anyone else). You can disagree with the reasoning if you want, but that's what it is and it's not going to change because you blow up the forums.

Gold25Dog · January 2

queenlarxene wrote: »

I do get that (I've had ESO+ for years and I've bought multiple chapters when they were fresh out, I've certainly spent far more than my fair share on this game), but it's also been clearly explained WHY they won't tell you (or anyone else). You can disagree with the reasoning if you want, but that's what it is and it's not going to change because you blow up the forums.

Do you have gifting ability?

I know you may not gift in game but it is an important feature to me and one that I had access to until it was removed. Here I am literally years later with no resolution from ZOS on it other than 'just keep playing it will unlock eventually'

Thats not ok -and if it takes blowing up the forums to get their attention on this then so be it - that or just ban me if they don't want to listen to me going off about it - then I can be another nail in the coffin of a good customer they lost because if they do that I am officially done and further I may pursue other avenues for my grievance. This is their chance to do right - they have been giving lip service to making the game better for years time for them to do something. I could be just as vocal of a champion for their game - it is an amazingly beautiful game and storytelling - why do you think I spent 1400 bucks on it LOL

But

I am not going to let it go.

queenlarxene · January 2

I didn't have it enabled by default, but I did submit a request not long after it was opened up and that was accepted. I've only sent about a dozen gifts ever, and that includes using my ESO+ crowns to buy DLC's for my (now) ex when I was trying to get him into the game.

I'm an incredibly active player though and have been for the last 5 years or so (and less actively from the launch on consoles until 2020ish). I have ESO+, I play every day, usually on multiple characters, I'm in multiple guilds, I've engaged with basically every type of content to some degree at some point.

I can see how it would be incredibly frustrating to not know what else you needed to do to be able to send gifts. I just don't see how you think literally calling them and speaking to a person (which I didn't even know was a thing you could do) wouldn't work, but spamming the forums would.

You have the only answer you're likely to get, I hope for your own sake, you can accept it and find something you actually enjoy to do instead.

Gold25Dog · January 2

queenlarxene wrote: »

I didn't have it enabled by default, but I did submit a request not long after it was opened up and that was accepted. I've only sent about a dozen gifts ever, and that includes using my ESO+ crowns to buy DLC's for my (now) ex when I was trying to get him into the game.

I'm an incredibly active player though and have been for the last 5 years or so (and less actively from the launch on consoles until 2020ish). I have ESO+, I play every day, usually on multiple characters, I'm in multiple guilds, I've engaged with basically every type of content to some degree at some point.

I can see how it would be incredibly frustrating to not know what else you needed to do to be able to send gifts. I just don't see how you think literally calling them and speaking to a person (which I didn't even know was a thing you could do) wouldn't work, but spamming the forums would.

You have the only answer you're likely to get, I hope for your own sake, you can accept it and find something you actually enjoy to do instead.

tbh - I think this is my last ditch attempt to get some change - there is a part of me that wants to walk away but not because of the game but because of the nonsense from the management - I want to give voice that this is something they could solve but have chosen for whatever reason not to - that some players somehow have access to it and others not without telling why (reasons or not) feels discriminatory to me - do they actually intend that..? I doubt it but that is how it feels - I have maxed out the levels and I am working on the next parts and have come nowhere close to covering all the content but I have purchased all of the content and then some so that I could play it seamlessly. I have over a thousand hours of playtime which is not much compared to serious players but also not insubstantial. I don't want to walk away from the game or the money spent or the time spent playing but I feel this is a hard line for me on functionality.

I want them to commit to fixing it, that is what I want, a recognition from them that it is not acceptable and a commitment to make change - if they were to at least do that I might be able to back off some.