Dragonknight Rework?

Rohamad_Ali

I don't have any issues with DK's.

Radiate77

Earthen Heart

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I don't have any issues with DK's.

There are no skills that you would improve numbers or visuals on?

Imagine if Wings reflected meteors once again, or what if Stone Giant flowed better and made actual stones appear instead of those ugly spheres?

Gabriel_H

Radiate77 wrote: »

Imagine if Wings reflected meteors once again.

There is a big difference between having one class slightly better in one fight but slightly worse in an another and having a skill that far exceeds anything any other class has.

Something like origianl wings will make the appeal for a DK tank at end-game far exceed the appeal for any other class tank. This is the challenge ZOS has, to provide not only uniqueness but also comparable desireability. Skills that are massive outliers cause problems.

An example of this would be Templar beam - best execute in the game, massive damage, with a self-heal BUT all other damage leading up to execution lags behind other classes, and it's only on a full lengthy fight that Templar comes close. So what to do with such a skill when anyone can take it (sub-class)?

BardokRedSnow

Radiate77 wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I don't have any issues with DK's.

There are no skills that you would improve numbers or visuals on?

Imagine if Wings reflected meteors once again.

Tbh Id rather it reflect normal projectile damage again instead of a fixed amount, and just block meteor would be acceptable. Meteor isnt even really a problematic ult for DKs. But all these long range crit builds need a good counter. Especially with the existence of monomyth.

Rohamad_Ali

Radiate77 wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I don't have any issues with DK's.

There are no skills that you would improve numbers or visuals on?

Imagine if Wings reflected meteors once again, or what if Stone Giant flowed better and made actual stones appear instead of those ugly spheres?

I do miss reflecting meteors.

Radiate77

Earthen Heart

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I don't have any issues with DK's.

There are no skills that you would improve numbers or visuals on?

Imagine if Wings reflected meteors once again, or what if Stone Giant flowed better and made actual stones appear instead of those ugly spheres?

I do miss reflecting meteors.

It was so satisfying.
Meteors and 100k damage Overloads.

Loved when PC transfers pulled up in Vet 12 Martial Knowledge and wiped out our entire server just 1-shotting everyone, just to have their kill streaks ended by their own Overload.

Never got old. 😂

Radiate77

Earthen Heart

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I don't have any issues with DK's.

There are no skills that you would improve numbers or visuals on?

Imagine if Wings reflected meteors once again.

Tbh Id rather it reflect normal projectile damage again instead of a fixed amount, and just block meteor would be acceptable. Meteor isnt even really a problematic ult for DKs. But all these long range crit builds need a good counter. Especially with the existence of monomyth.

This wouldn’t be bad, honestly.

The only reason I wouldn’t be opposed to ultimates too, is that any form of cleanse removes the dual wield ultimate, Rend & morphs, along with the DoT from the Bow ultimate morph.

BasP

Draconic Power

I'm looking at it from a PvE perspective and Draconic Power doesn't really offer much for any role, unlike Ardent Flame and even Earthen Heart. I'd like it if, for example:

• One morph of the Ultimate would be viable in PvE. Maybe one of the morphs could get a strong, short DoT instead of knocking enemies back or something like that.
• One morph of Spiked Armor, such as Volatile Armor, would be a good skill for DPS that still gave Major Resolve (similar to Hurricane).
• Burning Talons would be buffed a little bit. It's already good, but in order for "pure DK's" to compete with Subclass builds some sort of Talons buff could still be nice
• Iron Skin would be buffed. At the moment it only increases the damage you block by 10%, whereas the Warden's Piercing Cold passive "Increases the amount of damage you block by 8% and increases your Frost Damage by 15%". It'd be nice if Iron Skin had some sort of second buff like that too.
• Elder Dragon would be reworked because the increased Health Recovery is pretty worthless. It could maybe give a good groupwide buff that would incentivize using Draconic Power in group content.

YandereGirlfriend

Ardent Flame

Surprised by all of the dooming (or should I be...).

While it feels sort of random that Dragonknight was chosen to be first, it's in response to the correct observation that lines like Draconic Power are woefully underpowered in the subclassing era (same with Nightblade Shadow, Sorcerer Dark Magic, etc.).

We should be open-minded and give it a chance. I don't know that I love moving Inhale (would rather have seen better damage passives in Draconic...) to Ardent and likely Chains to Draconic (which seems to violate their stated objective to make all skill lines hodge-podges rather than role specific and moving a damage skill into the DPS line and a tank skill into the tank line is the literal opposite of that) but I'll remain open-minded until it hits the PTS.

Radiate77

Earthen Heart

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Surprised by all of the dooming (or should I be...).

While it feels sort of random that Dragonknight was chosen to be first, it's in response to the correct observation that lines like Draconic Power are woefully underpowered in the subclassing era (same with Nightblade Shadow, Sorcerer Dark Magic, etc.).

We should be open-minded and give it a chance. I don't know that I love moving Inhale (would rather have seen better damage passives in Draconic...) to Ardent and likely Chains to Draconic (which seems to violate their stated objective to make all skill lines hodge-podges rather than role specific and moving a damage skill into the DPS line and a tank skill into the tank line is the literal opposite of that) but I'll remain open-minded until it hits the PTS.

Right! It’s been 10 years.
Animations are dated, let alone certain skills.

I keep seeing complaints everywhere on these forums about every decision, and constructive feedback just gets drowned out. It’s why I plan on polling each class leading up to their reworks.

I want ZOS to know exactly where we feel these classes need help most.

skelitun

Ardent Flame

Ignore the Ardent flame vote, I'm a DK main (braindead) and hit the wrong button.

Earthen heart is definitely the weakest tree, I keep it on my main DK since I'm used to having battle roar and minor berserk, but maybe half of the skills feel like they could be deleted and I wouldn't notice. Stonefist and its morphs feel worthless, maybe stagger is good as a debuff in trials, but I feel like you'd contribute more to the group by running a spammable that actually does damage. Molten weapons is absolute garbage unless you need empower. (But just use mages guild w/scribing lol) Obsidian shield is complete trash IMO, it's 50% more mag cost than hardened armor for a much smaller shield (even with the igneous shield morph) and regardless of the morph you choose, major mending in its current state is not strong enough to make up the difference.

I mainly play PvP and occasionally solo/arena PvE (to farm gear for PvP lol) so I'm definitely biased, but I'm still pretty confident that all the skills I mentioned need a rework or buff. Other than that I'm really excited to see what they are doing with the class DOTs, I would love a reversion to shorter uptimes with more damage per tick. I used to love running grothdarr/elf bane on magDK back in the day, and elf bane is pretty much worthless with current DOTs. I would also personally like to see a nerf/rework to corrosive's weird mitigation effect, Its pretty frustrating on both ends how strong it is against certain burst effects, while doing almost nothing against multi-hit/dot skills.

Lastly I just wanna say that I am a health recovery enjoyer, and the new draconic power passive has made health recovery feel substantially better than at any point I can recall since it was nerfed a few years back. Maybe adding some kind of damage resistance vs monsters to the passive would make it more useful for PvE without moving the needle in PvP. The passive certainly has its niche, so I would hate to see it completely changed. Overall draconic power is really solid right now, I would argue that's the skill line in need of the fewest changes. We already know inhale is getting a rework, just give wings a buff or give it the reflector back, but the passives are all excellent.

Radiate77

Earthen Heart

skelitun wrote: »

Ignore the Ardent flame vote, I'm a DK main (braindead) and hit the wrong button.

I would really appreciate having the ability to swap selections in polls on these forums.

Other places, like YouTube for example, allow you to swap your votes around, I see no reason why a place designed for polling, would do it worse.

Radiate77

Earthen Heart

Well now we know.
https://youtu.be/B786lPU0nlA?si=oY46WpVVVFiFl1_9

While these changes are not absolute, I think it is incredible to see the depth of attention our reworks are receiving, and can’t wait to see the final interation.

BardokRedSnow

Radiate77 wrote: »

Well now we know.
https://youtu.be/B786lPU0nlA?si=H4WjysguWi2vWv3F

Its far from final but thus far im loving it. Especially if wings gets movement speed like wardens. DK shouldnt need to use race against time or subclass for movement when we have literal dragon wings.

Radiate77

Earthen Heart

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Well now we know.
https://youtu.be/B786lPU0nlA?si=H4WjysguWi2vWv3F

Its far from final but thus far im loving it. Especially if wings gets movement speed like wardens. DK shouldnt need to use race against time or subclass for movement when we have literal dragon wings.

I like that they stun now too.
That is going to be huge for disengagement with it’s current Snare Removal.

Radiate77

Earthen Heart

After viewing the work in progress, I would be completely fine if Poison was removed from Dragonknight’s kit.

With Hybridization, Scribing, and how far weapon skills have come, I can make no argument in keeping all of our green recolored skills in each Class.

Ardent Flame is not Ardent Poison, and with the new Flame Damage passive, I would rather both morphs just do Flame Damage.

BardokRedSnow

Radiate77 wrote: »

After viewing the work in progress, I would be completely fine if Poison was removed from Dragonknight’s kit.

With Hybridization, Scribing, and how far weapon skills have come, I can make no argument in keeping all of our green recolored skills in each Class.

Ardent Flame is not Ardent Poison, and with the new Flame Damage passive, I would rather both morphs just do Flame Damage.

Agreed, looks ugly anyway.

Radiate77

Earthen Heart

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

After viewing the work in progress, I would be completely fine if Poison was removed from Dragonknight’s kit.

With Hybridization, Scribing, and how far weapon skills have come, I can make no argument in keeping all of our green recolored skills in each Class.

Ardent Flame is not Ardent Poison, and with the new Flame Damage passive, I would rather both morphs just do Flame Damage.

Agreed, looks ugly anyway.

I can’t wait to see all of our new animation changes! I’ve felt strongly about this for awhile now, and Dragonknight was the worst offender visually, up there with Templar and Warden.

After watching the latest stream, it is great to see that the level of detail we can expect is the standard set by Arcanist.

My hope is that each skill remains visually distinct and recognizable, and not overwhelming, like the current light show we have when you have Spiked Armor, Coag, Inferno, and Seething Fury stacks all active at once.

James-Wayne

Earthen Heart

Radiate77 wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

So longs they make abilities stronger by ensuring the more class lines you have the stronger you are. And make sure class sets fit that would as well.

I'm glad DK is first because it's not my main 😂

Here’s to hoping they don’t just tack on a lazy, “for each Dragonknight ability slotted” or “when dealing damage with a Dragonknight ability” and instead design our reworks around encouraging unique playstyles.

From the sound of it, this Avalanche passive they mentioned seems to encourage an Attrition-playstyle, can’t wait to see what it says.

I was thinking they need to make it activate that skill on that line to get a buff of this skill on that other line but if fueled by passive on 3rd skill line then double damage and sustain or something

BardokRedSnow

Radiate77 wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

After viewing the work in progress, I would be completely fine if Poison was removed from Dragonknight’s kit.

With Hybridization, Scribing, and how far weapon skills have come, I can make no argument in keeping all of our green recolored skills in each Class.

Ardent Flame is not Ardent Poison, and with the new Flame Damage passive, I would rather both morphs just do Flame Damage.

Agreed, looks ugly anyway.

I can’t wait to see all of our new animation changes! I’ve felt strongly about this for awhile now, and Dragonknight was the worst offender visually, up there with Templar and Warden.

After watching the latest stream, it is great to see that the level of detail we can expect is the standard set by Arcanist.

My hope is that each skill remains visually distinct and recognizable, and not overwhelming, like the current light show we have when you have Spiked Armor, Coag, Inferno, and Seething Fury stacks all active at once.

This news is literally my eso wetdream lmao I've been dying for a dk animation update for years. I know everyone else's cautiously optimistic at best and rightfully so but I can't help it, Im a dk fanatic.

YandereGirlfriend

Ardent Flame

This is why I wanted to keep an open mind.

New leadership hasn't let us down so far. It is weird to feel optimism again. But obvs quite welcome.

ZhuJiuyin

Based on leaked information from the German version, the changes and modernizations to the DK class are indeed comparable to Arc, although the actual stats may not be confirmed until the PTS period.

If ZOS can truly maintain continuous communication with players as they claim and make the DK case a success, then the reworks of other classes will be even more anticipated. I remain cautiously optimistic at this point.

Radiate77

Earthen Heart

I know I already said it, but I can’t stress enough how much of a power play it would be if Poison was removed from DK to use for a later class…

Or for Warden to take advantage of as most poisons are found in nature!

Loving all of the new roleplay flavor text, that said, Knights want nothing to do with poison in fantasy… neither do Dragons for that matter!

wolfie1.0.

Where's the poll option that allows us to indicate that it doesn't matter because we dont trust ZOS to make changes that will make it better?

ZhuJiuyin

This is a summary I compiled using AI. Due to placeholders and translation errors in the German version, it may not be entirely accurate.

1. Engulfing Flames' 6% bonus fire damage has been changed to 6% bonus damage.

2. Flames of Oblivion now deal area damage every 5 seconds instead of just damaging 3 targets, and each hit has a chance to deal bonus damage.

3. Volatile Armor now provides bonus damage based on resistances.

4. Dragon Blood now heals once and then once based on missing health.

5. Take Flight now provides a bonus damage buff.

6. Stone Giant now adjusts damage based on the target's maximum health (similar to Black Gem Foundry's Monster Helm Sets).

7. Molten Armaments now deal bonus damage on your light and heavy attacks (I'm uneasy about this because it could completely replace Sorc's Overload).

8. Mountain's Blessing now provides a damage buff when you deal damage, and it stacks. One stack is lost when no damage is dealt.

9. Helping Hands: A fully charged heavy attack will cause the target to lose balance and restore your maximum resources.

10. Inhale: Now restores both maximum resources and health simultaneously.

If these changes are implemented, I'm really looking forward to the upcoming class reworks. However, I have to complain that, based on the current pace, completing all the class reworks will take at least 2-3 years, which is far too long.

Vulkunne

Ardent Flame

If they do away with Roar, Leap or Dragon Blood... actually most DK skills then you may as well just call it something else and move on.

YandereGirlfriend

Ardent Flame

Vulkunne wrote: »

If they do away with Roar, Leap or Dragon Blood... actually most DK skills then you may as well just call it something else and move on.

They... didn't... though. At least not in the leaks.

Radiate77

Earthen Heart

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

If they do away with Roar, Leap or Dragon Blood... actually most DK skills then you may as well just call it something else and move on.

They... didn't... though. At least not in the leaks.

The negativity is getting annoying.

I’d rather people who identify as generally unhappy, to just go right ahead and mute all of my threads & polls. I can’t express enough how non-productive it is to get messages like this one…

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Where's the poll option that allows us to indicate that it doesn't matter because we dont trust ZOS to make changes that will make it better?

Like how do you even engage with that?

There’s nothing I, or anyone, could say to convince them to “trust ZOS” even when we have the baseline of changes visible to us, and surprise surprise… they are all good.

So respectfully, I wonder, why even bother playing the game if you have no trust in the team making it? And why jump into a conversation on their forum just to tell someone that they want no part in the very conversation they jumped in on. 😂

Radiate77

Earthen Heart

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

This is a summary I compiled using AI. Due to placeholders and translation errors in the German version, it may not be entirely accurate.

1. Engulfing Flames' 6% bonus fire damage has been changed to 6% bonus damage.

2. Flames of Oblivion now deal area damage every 5 seconds instead of just damaging 3 targets, and each hit has a chance to deal bonus damage.

3. Volatile Armor now provides bonus damage based on resistances.

4. Dragon Blood now heals once and then once based on missing health.

5. Take Flight now provides a bonus damage buff.

6. Stone Giant now adjusts damage based on the target's maximum health (similar to Black Gem Foundry's Monster Helm Sets).

7. Molten Armaments now deal bonus damage on your light and heavy attacks (I'm uneasy about this because it could completely replace Sorc's Overload).

8. Mountain's Blessing now provides a damage buff when you deal damage, and it stacks. One stack is lost when no damage is dealt.

9. Helping Hands: A fully charged heavy attack will cause the target to lose balance and restore your maximum resources.

10. Inhale: Now restores both maximum resources and health simultaneously.

If these changes are implemented, I'm really looking forward to the upcoming class reworks. However, I have to complain that, based on the current pace, completing all the class reworks will take at least 2-3 years, which is far too long.

I love how these are pretty much in line with our a Skill Line votes, with Earthen Heart tied for most changed skills, and Ardent Flame with the least.

Vulkunne

Ardent Flame

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

If they do away with Roar, Leap or Dragon Blood... actually most DK skills then you may as well just call it something else and move on.

They... didn't... though. At least not in the leaks.

Roar was nerfed and DK wings was completely changed to be a generic skill, among other changes. Leap consistently fails to launch.

Having played a DK for most of the game's existence I suppose it's a point of contention for me. As I've said many times in other posts, I'm very optimistic about upcoming changes, yet, especially with a DK there are some skills that make the class what it is. Like nerve points. Combine the previous nerfs with things like Vengeance creating a bottleneck for each class and I think a little concern is completely justified.