What Are People Doing With Their PvE Sorcerers?

LootAllTheStuff

I just got mine to 50, and have noticed a fair number of comments on the forums about Sorcs being underpowered or needing attention. So I'm wondering what kinds of things people who run Sorc builds do with them, primarily for PvE.

Do you find them better for running as a DPS, Heal, Tank, or some mix?

What works for you for the above roles given (a) subclassing (b) no subclassing?

What's the most fun a Sorc can have in PvE?

So far, I've just been experimenting with different skill lines. I like the idea of Storm/Summon, and also running healing, but I'm not tied to that and want to see what some viable options might be.

Thanks in advance!

Soarora

Sorcs are not really underpowered, it’s probably people complaining about some DPS builds and sorc DPS in a subclassing society. Sorc lines can’t compete with nightblade, plar, dk, and arcanist in passives and skills in the line. Yet, it wasn’t that long ago that stamsorc was one of if not the highest parsing dps specs in single target.

I’ve casually tried all role options but the only one that stuck for me was tank. It’s my main tank and the first class I really got into tanking on (tried dk then warden magtank first).

Sorcerers make good tanks whether subclassed or not. I don’t like subclassing so I spend most of my time as pure sorc but it works well as a base for subclassing as well because all the lines bring some benefit depending on what you’re doing… so at times having 2 sorc lines may be beneficial.

I don’t really understand what you mean by most fun. It depends on what you want to do. It also wasn’t that long ago that healer sorc was meta so… whatever role you enjoy most would be what’s most fun for you.

Turtle_Bot

Soarora wrote: »

Sorcs are not really underpowered, it’s probably people complaining about some DPS builds and sorc DPS in a subclassing society. Sorc lines can’t compete with nightblade, plar, dk, and arcanist in passives and skills in the line. Yet, it wasn’t that long ago that stamsorc was one of if not the highest parsing dps specs in single target.

I just want to add a couple of caveats to this point in particular:

1. Stamsorc being the "highest single target parse class" was exclusively down to cheesing Overload at the start of the parse, turning all light attacks into a second spammable that could be used (while overload was toggled on) within the same GCD as your regular spammable for a big spike in DPS at the start of the parse. This also coincided with sorcs passive that boosts damage by 10% at the start of the fight making this even stronger than it really is (hence why it's known as "parse cheesing"). Overload was never a good skill for actual content though because not buffing groups DPS with Atro was just straight up worse for content than the DPS gained from Overload.

2. Sorcs DPS was (and realistically still is) locked behind the Pets + Prey in combination with the Storm Calling passives, and this is what the majority of (pre-subclassing) complaints were about for Sorc, being forced into being a summoner.

3. A lot of the complaints post sub-classing was because Sorcerer interacts so poorly with that system in the way it's class lines are split. Sorcerer is the only class that requires skills from all 3 lines for any role it chooses to play (most classes only require 1 for a given role, but some still require 2). I.e.
- Pets are the strongest damage over time abilities sorc has, but they require storm calling passives + prey to achieve their max DPS.
- Frags, the class spammable, is in the dark magic line, but that skill line is almost all support, utility and tanking outside of that 1 ability.
- Storm calling is the "DPS" line based on the passives, but the active abilities are mediocre for DPS at best outside of specifically the hurricane morph of lightning form (especially for the current proc/secondary effect based meta where abilities have 3-5 bonus procs/effects/buffs/debuffs on top of equivalent base damage to the storm calling DPS abilities).
- Ward (class "self-heal" tool) and matriarch (group heal) are in the pet line, but the tanking/group support passives are in Dark magic line and the mobility tools and armor buff (streak/lightning form) are in the storm calling line.

These caveats aren't to say that sorc hasn't had it's moments in the spotlight for PvE (heavy attack builds, parse cheesing, etc) but that Sorc just has so many different ways to play it (that are vastly different in playstyle, theme and function from each other) when compared to the other classes and some of those playstyles have been left behind (even before sub-classing power spike), hence where the complaints regarding sorc comes from.

Simplest way to summarise this spoiler is, Sorc is trying to be 3 or more playstyles at once for each role (summoner, pure mage (shock theme), battlemage, arcane archer, etc.) where other classes are at most 2 playstyles or sometimes even just the 1 playstyle. This is why there are so many different opinions about sorc's current state, but also why ZOS seems to struggle with trying to do anything to update the class. Also, the way sorcs skill lines are currently split doesn't mix well with sub-classing.

With that out of the way, onto OPs post, heavy attack builds are still decent, especially with sub-classing, but they do feel very stale to play (beam lite) if you are looking to play a more advanced rotation build.

Stamsorc's weaving build still has decent DPS (well comparing pure class to pure class, and when limited to single target parsing) and I still find Sorc (pet-sorc) to be one of the better support classes specifically for running banner with that small HoT from pets dealing damage being a nice bonus layer of survivability for the group (even as a DPS) or when solo (and of course for Atro group wide major berserk), and the pets also combine nicely with not having to constantly recast them to keep damage over time going (saves resources to counteract the resource drain that the banner now has while not completely losing DPS).

If you enjoy pets, then sorcerer can function just fine in any (PvE) role, if you don't like the pets, it's possible to make it work, but it is significantly harder than other classes to do so in a post sub-classing ESO, due to the way all 3 class lines all tie in with each other to give sorc the tools for a specific role that the other classes have in just 1 or at most 2 of their skill lines.

If you just want something fun to play with the lightning theme (mostly just for overland content and questing, maybe normal dungeons/trials, but can technically be optimised for harder group content) then leaning heavily on scribing (wield soul or soul burst with shock damage) combined with wall of elements (lightning staff) and the storm cursed set (and if not running pets also the class script) is a fun build to play and can be strong if there are a lot of mobs stacked up. The bonus to this build is that since it leans so heavily on scribing and non-class abilities for it's core, it's much easier to sub-class than most sorc builds since you really only need storm calling for the passives + lightning form + crit surge. Other classes can technically run this build as well, but will lose out on the class script, which can affect performance in content that requires lots of cleave damage.

Nestor

You have to remember, when people complain about a class, it is only down a few percent. And, that only applies to people who have honed rotations and animation canceling.. Unless your chasing Leaderboards or hard Mode Trifectas, don't sweat the few percent.

My sorcerer is my Main and does just fine.

Necrotech_Master

sorcs can be fairly decent at all 3 roles when built right, subclassing definitely helps them a lot though for role specialization

ive primarily run a sorc as a healer, recently subclassing him by dropping the dark magic tree and adding green balance (more heals + toughness)

Renato90085

i use pure sorc did many trial trifecta(2GS 1GH 1DB 1TTT)in last 2 year
in my(pve endgame) pov:
dark magic(sorc) and Shadow(nb) both line is game weakest line
Daedric Summoning only have 2 good skill ,Summon Storm Atronach and Bound Aegis in tank/sup is good.
Storm Calling:Streak and Hurricane is good in pvp,and few pve tank choose Streak,like LC hardmode
old patch pure sorc in pve advantage only 2 point: Atronach give us Major Berserk and in boss full health have Amplitude passive can quick pull boss be execute stage (health <50%) so templar can quick execute boss
other part all good for nothing,or have many better choose
so in subclass,you will see many Daedric Summoning in tank or healer,but other 2 line not good anywhere

RebornV3x

My Sorcerer is a crafter/overland quester. I do PVP with it occasionally. But sadly with the dps meta now days its Arcanist or nothing.

preevious

Sorcerers can make HA builds that parse over 100k, even without pets.
You'd have tu use the voidmantle, but it's still very potent, and you can expect good results, even in real content. (not to the level of beams, but still quite good)

As for the LA builds, with the multiclasse, you can pull something with lightning skills + 2 others, and it'll work.

Zodiarkslayer

I have two Sorcerers. One Magicka and one Stamina. I only play SOLO.
My MagSorc uses Assassination instead of Dark Magic and my StamSorc instead of Daedric Summoning.
Both are good damage dealers while being extremely survivable.

Xarc

What Are People Doing With Their PvE Sorcerers?

they're doing pve.

LootAllTheStuff

OK, so basically don't sweat the meta, play around, and get scribing going seem like good starting points here.

I can definitely see tanking working, but I'll keep playing around with different skills. Need to grab some more skill points, too...

lostineternity

Herald of the Tome + Assassination + Storm Calling

best setup for closing vet dlc dungeons solo
for high end group PVE content sorc is not terrible (dps perspective) but anything with DK or Templar is better, so no reason to play as sorcerer

Justosay

lostineternity wrote: »

Herald of the Tome + Assassination + Storm Calling

best setup for closing vet dlc dungeons solo
for high end group PVE content sorc is not terrible (dps perspective) but anything with DK or Templar is better, so no reason to play as sorcerer

Absolutely wrong.
Any boss fight is always (with rare exceptions) a matter of survival, not damage. A damaging tank has a much better chance of killing a boss solo than a DD with the "highest damage output in the game."
This is why ESO (and other modern games) doesn't have such a thing as "endgame group content". Because "endgame group content" isn't about your gear and the numbers above the head, but about "the coordinated work of many people" (that's why 24-ppl and 40-ppl raids were the hardest). This is why the first raids in such games were always static and required knowledge of the boss's script (aka game mechanics). You didn't even have to kill the boss; getting him down to 2-3% health was enough.

Soarora

Justosay wrote: »

lostineternity wrote: »

Herald of the Tome + Assassination + Storm Calling

best setup for closing vet dlc dungeons solo
for high end group PVE content sorc is not terrible (dps perspective) but anything with DK or Templar is better, so no reason to play as sorcerer

Absolutely wrong.
Any boss fight is always (with rare exceptions) a matter of survival, not damage. A damaging tank has a much better chance of killing a boss solo than a DD with the "highest damage output in the game."
This is why ESO (and other modern games) doesn't have such a thing as "endgame group content". Because "endgame group content" isn't about your gear and the numbers above the head, but about "the coordinated work of many people" (that's why 24-ppl and 40-ppl raids were the hardest). This is why the first raids in such games were always static and required knowledge of the boss's script (aka game mechanics). You didn't even have to kill the boss; getting him down to 2-3% health was enough.

The end of THIS game is doing high damage. There’s DPS checks that are coded in (such as Dro’zakar’s shield) and there’s DPS checks that are implied (such as the 2-handed enemy in Black Gem Foundry that, if not killed fast enough, will strip the tank of all their resistances) and there’s DPS checks that are player-created (such as killing Z’maja before any of the minis spawn). You can do content the hard way, going full mechanics, but it’s going to be hard to find a group and put extreme pressure on healers and tanks (for above examples, healer trying to heal through the ramping Dro’zakar damage (which I’ve never seen anyone succeed at), tank having to roll dodge everything because they have no resistances).

Justosay

Soarora wrote: »

The end of THIS game is doing high damage.

Your bias is understandable, but misguided. No MMO of such class is built around maximizing your "pew-pew" (and "THIS game" is not exception). They all focus on surviving boss fights. But the challenges players face can vary greatly. In any game. Some bosses require high damage. But that doesn't mean all bosses require it. Some bosses require you to sheathe your weapons before the fight, some require you to dance between fights, some require you to not look at them between phases. Some bosses are immune to taunts, and for some, the player who heals/damages the most is at the top of their aggro list. Some disarm your tank, some requare permanent kiting and some requare certain position on the battlefield. And so long...
And you yourself write why you think that high damage output is "endgame". Not because of the game mechanics:

Soarora wrote: »

You can do content the hard way, going full mechanics, but it’s going to be hard to find a group and put extreme pressure on healers and tanks

but because the "high end" of the game is too hard for you and because the "high end" of the game for you is just a "loot-raid"

ZhuJiuyin

Almost all online game PvE is designed with "maximizing your damage output" in mind. How to survive a boss fight? That's the responsibility of tanks and healers. For a DPS, survival is the least of their concerns. Unless the mechanics require movement, blocking, or rolling, a DPS's primary task is to deal as much damage as possible. This is why almost all game UIs have DPS monitoring; team leaders need to know who is underperforming.

This is also reflected in the logs. Teams with high DPS often have the highest scores and the fewest deaths because high DPS allows them to skip/reduce many mechanics. For every 20K less DPS, in LC hm, you face one more Chain Lightning attack, which only increases the team's survival pressure, not the other way around. In MOL hm, low DPS only complicates the mechanics, causing the team to take more damage and deal with more mechanics. The same applies to other trials and dungeons; lower DPS only increases the team's burden, not the other way around. Those with low DPS try to comfort themselves by saying, "At least I helped with healing," which is pure self-deception. Healing is the healer's job, just as tanking is responsible for taking hits from the boss. A DPS player's sole task is to provide adequate damage. It's like not wanting your doctor to prescribe random medications and then claim immunity for helping repair your car. Each person fulfilling their role is a fundamental respect in team games; those who cannot provide adequate DPS are wasting the time of everyone in the team.

Soarora

Justosay wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

The end of THIS game is doing high damage.

Your bias is understandable, but misguided. No MMO of such class is built around maximizing your "pew-pew" (and "THIS game" is not exception). They all focus on surviving boss fights. But the challenges players face can vary greatly. In any game. Some bosses require high damage. But that doesn't mean all bosses require it. Some bosses require you to sheathe your weapons before the fight, some require you to dance between fights, some require you to not look at them between phases. Some bosses are immune to taunts, and for some, the player who heals/damages the most is at the top of their aggro list. Some disarm your tank, some requare permanent kiting and some requare certain position on the battlefield. And so long...
And you yourself write why you think that high damage output is "endgame". Not because of the game mechanics:

Soarora wrote: »

You can do content the hard way, going full mechanics, but it’s going to be hard to find a group and put extreme pressure on healers and tanks

but because the "high end" of the game is too hard for you and because the "high end" of the game for you is just a "loot-raid"

Those kinds of situations you describe are not applicable to ESO. The end of this game is not to be at the endgame of another game. The end of this game is confined to this game. What you think an endgame in an MMO should be doesn’t change what endgame in ESO is. Endgame of group PvE ESO is completing HM and trifecta dungeons and trials. That content has DPS checks in the ways I described. Culturally, you would be hard pressed to find a group for a HM or trifecta trial that both wants to do the content as slowly as possible and is capable of even clearing.

No need to insult me, my favorite way of playing is doing mechanics instead of full burning. Plus, I’m not a DPS. I do play DPS but I’m a tank main. I’m just saying it how it is.

Justosay

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Almost all online game PvE is designed with "maximizing your damage output" in mind.

You're confusing cause and effect. If all games were built around damage, every dungeon would be just a room with a securely locked chest that needed to be broken. But instead, every boss has script.

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

How to survive a boss fight? That's the responsibility of tanks and healers. For a DPS, survival is the least of their concerns.

Ah, those DDs always wipe raids and groups. In every game.

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

... because high DPS allows them to skip/reduce many mechanics.

As I said before, if you can skip a game mechanic, it's not a "high end".

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Those with low DPS try to comfort themselves by saying, "At least I helped with healing," which is pure self-deception. Healing is the healer's job, just as tanking is responsible for taking hits from the boss.

Let me remind you of the subject: "A damaging tank has a much better chance of killing a boss solo than a DD with the "highest damage output in the game." Do you want to argue it?

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Each person fulfilling their role is a fundamental respect in team games

Let me remind you what I wrote above: "endgame group content" ... about "the coordinated work of many people" (that's why 24-ppl and 40-ppl raids were the hardest)" Do you want to argue it?

Justosay

Soarora wrote: »

The end of this game is not to be at the endgame of another game. The end of this game is confined to this game. What you think an endgame in an MMO should be doesn’t change what endgame in ESO is.

The endgame is different for every game (or they'll get sued), but they're all built on the same basis.
As I said before, 1) if you can skip a game mechanic, then it's not a "high end", 2) a damaging tank has a much better chance of killing a boss solo than a DD with the "highest damage output in the game."

Renato90085

objective,you both is right
dps [high end] is survive and did maximizing your damage output
but if you never dead and not tank /fake dps build or zen jail,your dps certainly/should is high than dead member
for me, survive just a base part,maximizing your damage need training and exp for your boss fight and mechanism
full dmg build can solo 95% boss and most dungeon solo trifecta
not mean survive not important,just game most part survive is easy/base part
but in endgame,like trial trifecta,skip mechanism hard than do mechanism,like oax skip 3 mini mean tank and healer have hard work to do ,and same time dps give heself a dps check in first mini
it mean really hard part all have dps check and still need do mech,or more special mech,maximizing your damage in there is base part,it why skip core alway need you parse 160k+,because if not ,you cant skip mech or someone will dead,survive more important

mdjessup4906

My sorc is a herald/assassin /storm calling for vet pledges and an occasional tank. Daedric line for the atro, shield, and bound aegis. Winters and earthen for group buffs and perfectlybalanced heals.

Yudo

Only play sorc, no subclassing, all roles, all content.

lostineternity

Justosay wrote: »

lostineternity wrote: »

Herald of the Tome + Assassination + Storm Calling

best setup for closing vet dlc dungeons solo
for high end group PVE content sorc is not terrible (dps perspective) but anything with DK or Templar is better, so no reason to play as sorcerer

Absolutely wrong.
Any boss fight is always (with rare exceptions) a matter of survival, not damage. A damaging tank has a much better chance of killing a boss solo than a DD with the "highest damage output in the game."
This is why ESO (and other modern games) doesn't have such a thing as "endgame group content". Because "endgame group content" isn't about your gear and the numbers above the head, but about "the coordinated work of many people" (that's why 24-ppl and 40-ppl raids were the hardest). This is why the first raids in such games were always static and required knowledge of the boss's script (aka game mechanics). You didn't even have to kill the boss; getting him down to 2-3% health was enough.

I would like to know how many trifectas you have if any, because I have a strong feeling you have no idea about ESO pve at all

Justosay

lostineternity wrote: »

I would like to know how many trifectas you have if any, because I have a strong feeling you have no idea about ESO pve at all

Oh my god. In a game where trials affect the gameplay as much as fishing, you not only decided that your part of the game is the only one, but even in that part, you justify skipping game mechanics... And all these to feel how great you are?
If I told you I've never went raids in ESO, would that satisfy your "orange" ego?

lostineternity

Justosay wrote: »

lostineternity wrote: »

I would like to know how many trifectas you have if any, because I have a strong feeling you have no idea about ESO pve at all

Oh my god. In a game where trials affect the gameplay as much as fishing, you not only decided that your part of the game is the only one, but even in that part, you justify skipping game mechanics... And all these to feel how great you are?
If I told you I've never went raids in ESO, would that satisfy your "orange" ego?

That is, none, as expected. Carefully read the title of the topic and the question of the person who created it.
You are talking absolute nonsense that has nothing to do with ESO, and I also see in you a complete lack of understanding of combat mechanics and buildcrafting. There is no need for comparisons with other games here, because we are talking exclusively about ESO.
I don't see any point in communicating further.