ESO’s Content Pass Model Is Failing Us—and Writhing Wall Proves It

Syldras

Castagere wrote: »

When I found out that this was about Mannimarco, I wish I could have gotten a refund for this pass. This is like a bad joke. Also, you would think if he came back the the three other heroes that fought him would show up, but they don't. I feel really stupid for buying this. This is what we are going to get now. And remember, this is under Microsoft ownership.

It was clear they'd bring him back, or at least it was hard to imagine them not doing it in a Worm Cult story (also, he's alive and well - or undead, but not any less well - in TES2 again). And I personally, didn't mind that. What bothered me was that the writing surrounding that event didn't make much sense. The Worm Cult shouldn't collaborate with Molag Bal anymore, and another Planemeld was the most boring idea the cult could come up with. It's a pity since they could have made an interesting story out of that situation.

jaws343

Furyous wrote: »

ESO used to sell expansions that were complete before asking players to pay.
You knew what you were buying.
You could evaluate the content, the scope, the features, and decide if it was worth your money.
That model rewarded effort, polish, and transparency.

Now we have “content passes.”
We prepay for content that hasn’t been created yet.
There’s no roadmap, no feature list, no accountability.
Just a vague promise that something will arrive eventually.

This hasn't fundamentally changed though?

We were told very loose information about seasons in January with the option to buy, 6 months before testing and release. And I would highly doubt content was ever ready when they announced it. It was a pipeline expectation. No different than this new approach.

Same with DLC. For anyone using ESO Plus to get access, they were essentially paying for access to future content before it was even announced, showcased, or finished.

Carcamongus

I feel the analogy with knitting isn't appropriate, as I've talked to a few people who knitted and they said they liked doing that, even found it relaxing and rewarding. There's nothing relaxing or rewarding about grinding for weeks while a percentage meter slowly goes up and when a milestone is reached, you get more of the same grind (but this time with archers on short platforms!). This was very poorly planned too, as antiquities and quests for Eastern Solstice are already present but we can't do much about those yet. Yes, player engagement is the gauge the big suits care about and players are engaging with this poor content despite its flaws. Apparently, fun isn't a necessary requirement.

I wonder what would happen if people just gave up about this grind, which I'd rather compare to the preparation for a colonoscopy. Would we then only get the rest of the island in December or even January? Or would the percentage magically go up nonetheless, kind of when it jumped to 25% on PC/NA?

Echoing what someone above said (damn you for beating me to the punch!), I do hope this is indeed a once in a lifetime event.

Furyous

Carcamongus wrote: »

I wonder what would happen if people just gave up about this grind, which I'd rather compare to the preparation for a colonoscopy. Would we then only get the rest of the island in December or even January? Or would the percentage magically go up nonetheless, kind of when it jumped to 25% on PC/NA?

They have already proven, twice, that player participation has nothing to do with the progress bar.
They change it to match the deadline they want to hit.
It doesn't matter if two people grind or 2000.
They have a date, and they'll adjust the numbers to hit it.

When it first launched on PC/NA, the bar moved faster than expected.
So they rolled it back and changed the progression formula to slow it down.
A few days later, it was moving too slow, so they changed it again to speed things up.

The whole "community unlock" framing is just theater.
The meter moves when they need it to move.
And that's exactly why the grind feels so hollow, because it's not actually tied to anything real.

Nemesis7884

This whole idea of changing something in an mmo irreversible forever through an event has always been a nonsense idea that has a horrible resources spent vs entertainment amount generated ratio.... that works in a dnd campaign where the same people play but not in a global game with independant players that all have completely different approaches to playing the game.

Northwold

I didn't buy the season pass for two reasons:

1) the price;

2) in marketing it, they described what content there is with an emphasis on the group event.

Since I'm not at all interested in playing group content (let alone group content that continues for aeons) there didn't seem to be anything there for me, and the lack of specificity in marketing meant all I could see at the point of deciding was that there'd be dungeons too hard for me to play and the group stuff.

I do wonder if they pitched this all wrong. We know ESO has a LOT of essentially only-solo players and there was very little in the offering to win them over. There was also the weirdness of ESO plus subscribers effectively paying twice for some of the content, making the subscription feel like a rip off.

SerafinaWaterstar

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

This whole idea of changing something in an mmo irreversible forever through an event has always been a nonsense idea that has a horrible resources spent vs entertainment amount generated ratio.... that works in a dnd campaign where the same people play but not in a global game with independant players that all have completely different approaches to playing the game.

This is my feeling too - how will future new players see the questlines on Solstice? Npcs talking about a wall that isn’t there anymore. Makes no sense. And is not even anything special, unless you like grinding.

heaven13

kargen27 wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I believe it was announced 2025 would be a transition year from what we had to what is coming. Maybe I am remembering wrong but pretty sure 2025 was meant as a one off to get the game where they want it to end up.

They did say this, you're correct. But a transition year doesn't exempt them from delivering quality content that we actually paid more for. They don't just get a pass from criticism because they were vague about what's to come in a letter last December. Be clear. Concise. Don't charge more for less then tell us it's a world changing once in a lifetime chance to save the realm.

They were also clear in that letter about what's coming. No more chapters. New stories in old zones. 3 months seasons, which will probably go something like this.The dark brotherhood faces a new threat from an old foe. Gather your allies as you journey across Tamriel, to beloved, iconic locations as you fight to stop this new threat. Culminating in a showdown for the ages. Will you save the brotherhood or will McGuffin destroy all you've worked so hard to build. What it really means though is we strung together some prologue length quests that we'll release a couple times throughout the season. Maybe some new pockets in old delves where you'll face an enemy. Maybe once next year they'll release this Craglorn lite adventure mini zone they talked about. Throw in some furnishing plans, a couple antiquity leads, something for the master writ vendor. Reskin some outfits and stuff as rewards for the season. Cap it off with a golden pursuit with a mount and or house and boom. You're done. There's your money, but they'll want you to pay for the entire year or maybe by the season but you'll have to pay. Still no confirmation that there'll be more dungeons, a new trial, a new class, companion. To say nothing of everything else we lose without chapters. New systems, side quests, delves, public dungeons, world bosses, exploration.

So I think it's entirely fair to tell them, loudly, now if you don't like it or what's been hinted at. The more voices raised the better. It'll probably make no difference, look at just the basics ignored this year. Class balance, crippling combat issues. Still though, I love this game. I want it to be a 30 year mmo. I've played for almost 10 years. I'll be here till the lights go dark. So I feel like we can't cut them any slack in this regard, though with the year they've had some stuff is perfectly understandable. Anyway, just one guys worthless opinion.

My intent wasn't to defend this years content but to point out in might be an anomaly. The opening post and others suggest what we have now is what we are going to be getting here on out. I'm just reminding people we might be getting something different so don't give up hope just yet.
By all means let them know this wasn't a good year in a lot of aspects though.

Unfortunately, the phrasing of "transition year" has me more concerned, rather than less. I will preface this with: I did not buy the content pass and have no plans to. The little I've seen and heard make it pretty easy to ignore.

We're told (often) that stories and content are planned years in advance. So Solstice wasn't just a quick, thrown together thing for a transition year. But somehow it still feels very unfinished and unremarkable from all accounts. If that's what was already planned for the past year and was this small and unfinished, what kind of piecemeal content will be released going forward as they fully embrace the drip model?

Maybe I'll be wrong and that would be great but I'll only believe it if I see it.

Syldras

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

This is my feeling too - how will future new players see the questlines on Solstice? Npcs talking about a wall that isn’t there anymore. Makes no sense.

Each player has to remove the Wall individually by activating the Meridian Lens as part of zone main quest #6. Before one has reached that point of the story, it remains there.

katanagirl1

twisttop138 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I believe it was announced 2025 would be a transition year from what we had to what is coming. Maybe I am remembering wrong but pretty sure 2025 was meant as a one off to get the game where they want it to end up.

They did say this, you're correct. But a transition year doesn't exempt them from delivering quality content that we actually paid more for. They don't just get a pass from criticism because they were vague about what's to come in a letter last December. Be clear. Concise. Don't charge more for less then tell us it's a world changing once in a lifetime chance to save the realm.

They were also clear in that letter about what's coming. No more chapters. New stories in old zones. 3 months seasons, which will probably go something like this.The dark brotherhood faces a new threat from an old foe. Gather your allies as you journey across Tamriel, to beloved, iconic locations as you fight to stop this new threat. Culminating in a showdown for the ages. Will you save the brotherhood or will McGuffin destroy all you've worked so hard to build. What it really means though is we strung together some prologue length quests that we'll release a couple times throughout the season. Maybe some new pockets in old delves where you'll face an enemy. Maybe once next year they'll release this Craglorn lite adventure mini zone they talked about. Throw in some furnishing plans, a couple antiquity leads, something for the master writ vendor. Reskin some outfits and stuff as rewards for the season. Cap it off with a golden pursuit with a mount and or house and boom. You're done. There's your money, but they'll want you to pay for the entire year or maybe by the season but you'll have to pay. Still no confirmation that there'll be more dungeons, a new trial, a new class, companion. To say nothing of everything else we lose without chapters. New systems, side quests, delves, public dungeons, world bosses, exploration.

So I think it's entirely fair to tell them, loudly, now if you don't like it or what's been hinted at. The more voices raised the better. It'll probably make no difference, look at just the basics ignored this year. Class balance, crippling combat issues. Still though, I love this game. I want it to be a 30 year mmo. I've played for almost 10 years. I'll be here till the lights go dark. So I feel like we can't cut them any slack in this regard, though with the year they've had some stuff is perfectly understandable. Anyway, just one guys worthless opinion.

I guess transition year was supposed to mean they give us less this year but more next year. I can’t see that happening. It’ll be less of the same we got this year.

I have pre-ordered every year including this year, but if they go with no new zones I probably won’t anymore. Normally I get the content when it comes out to explore the new zone and get those furnishing plans, but the drop rates have been so poor that I can safely pass on buying the content next time because even though I play every day I still had to buy the plans from some other lucky player this time. There is really no reason to buy anymore.

I agree with you, I love this game and I would love to keep supporting it. I can see continuing the subscription for the craft bag and housing slots, because I love housing, but ordering seasons is now worthless to me.

ArchMikem

kargen27 wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I believe it was announced 2025 would be a transition year from what we had to what is coming. Maybe I am remembering wrong but pretty sure 2025 was meant as a one off to get the game where they want it to end up.

They did say this, you're correct. But a transition year doesn't exempt them from delivering quality content that we actually paid more for. They don't just get a pass from criticism because they were vague about what's to come in a letter last December. Be clear. Concise. Don't charge more for less then tell us it's a world changing once in a lifetime chance to save the realm.

They were also clear in that letter about what's coming. No more chapters. New stories in old zones. 3 months seasons, which will probably go something like this.The dark brotherhood faces a new threat from an old foe. Gather your allies as you journey across Tamriel, to beloved, iconic locations as you fight to stop this new threat. Culminating in a showdown for the ages. Will you save the brotherhood or will McGuffin destroy all you've worked so hard to build. What it really means though is we strung together some prologue length quests that we'll release a couple times throughout the season. Maybe some new pockets in old delves where you'll face an enemy. Maybe once next year they'll release this Craglorn lite adventure mini zone they talked about. Throw in some furnishing plans, a couple antiquity leads, something for the master writ vendor. Reskin some outfits and stuff as rewards for the season. Cap it off with a golden pursuit with a mount and or house and boom. You're done. There's your money, but they'll want you to pay for the entire year or maybe by the season but you'll have to pay. Still no confirmation that there'll be more dungeons, a new trial, a new class, companion. To say nothing of everything else we lose without chapters. New systems, side quests, delves, public dungeons, world bosses, exploration.

So I think it's entirely fair to tell them, loudly, now if you don't like it or what's been hinted at. The more voices raised the better. It'll probably make no difference, look at just the basics ignored this year. Class balance, crippling combat issues. Still though, I love this game. I want it to be a 30 year mmo. I've played for almost 10 years. I'll be here till the lights go dark. So I feel like we can't cut them any slack in this regard, though with the year they've had some stuff is perfectly understandable. Anyway, just one guys worthless opinion.

My intent wasn't to defend this years content but to point out in might be an anomaly. The opening post and others suggest what we have now is what we are going to be getting here on out. I'm just reminding people we might be getting something different so don't give up hope just yet.
By all means let them know this wasn't a good year in a lot of aspects though.

ZOS wants Seasons to be the future of the game, because Chapters were probably not profitable enough and "Battle Passes" are what's trending for Live Service gaming these days, even if most people hate them. As soon as they announced this everyone here immediately knew it was just more of what CoD, Battlefield, Fortnite etc does.

tomofhyrule

ArchMikem wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I believe it was announced 2025 would be a transition year from what we had to what is coming. Maybe I am remembering wrong but pretty sure 2025 was meant as a one off to get the game where they want it to end up.

They did say this, you're correct. But a transition year doesn't exempt them from delivering quality content that we actually paid more for. They don't just get a pass from criticism because they were vague about what's to come in a letter last December. Be clear. Concise. Don't charge more for less then tell us it's a world changing once in a lifetime chance to save the realm.

They were also clear in that letter about what's coming. No more chapters. New stories in old zones. 3 months seasons, which will probably go something like this.The dark brotherhood faces a new threat from an old foe. Gather your allies as you journey across Tamriel, to beloved, iconic locations as you fight to stop this new threat. Culminating in a showdown for the ages. Will you save the brotherhood or will McGuffin destroy all you've worked so hard to build. What it really means though is we strung together some prologue length quests that we'll release a couple times throughout the season. Maybe some new pockets in old delves where you'll face an enemy. Maybe once next year they'll release this Craglorn lite adventure mini zone they talked about. Throw in some furnishing plans, a couple antiquity leads, something for the master writ vendor. Reskin some outfits and stuff as rewards for the season. Cap it off with a golden pursuit with a mount and or house and boom. You're done. There's your money, but they'll want you to pay for the entire year or maybe by the season but you'll have to pay. Still no confirmation that there'll be more dungeons, a new trial, a new class, companion. To say nothing of everything else we lose without chapters. New systems, side quests, delves, public dungeons, world bosses, exploration.

So I think it's entirely fair to tell them, loudly, now if you don't like it or what's been hinted at. The more voices raised the better. It'll probably make no difference, look at just the basics ignored this year. Class balance, crippling combat issues. Still though, I love this game. I want it to be a 30 year mmo. I've played for almost 10 years. I'll be here till the lights go dark. So I feel like we can't cut them any slack in this regard, though with the year they've had some stuff is perfectly understandable. Anyway, just one guys worthless opinion.

My intent wasn't to defend this years content but to point out in might be an anomaly. The opening post and others suggest what we have now is what we are going to be getting here on out. I'm just reminding people we might be getting something different so don't give up hope just yet.
By all means let them know this wasn't a good year in a lot of aspects though.

ZOS wants Seasons to be the future of the game, because Chapters were probably not profitable enough and "Battle Passes" are what's trending for Live Service gaming these days, even if most people hate them. As soon as they announced this everyone here immediately knew it was just more of what CoD, Battlefield, Fortnite etc does.

I really hate how the Wall event is so in-your-face. It really feels like ZOS is subtly saying “if you’re not playing the Wall event, you’re playing ESO wrong.”

This event has seriously overstayed its welcome, and the fact that the dailies and promo materials straight up spoil the part 1 story just make it eminently clear that we are supposed to jump on this story immediately and do nothing else. It’s a lazy way to drive interaction with FOMO, and the entire thing was so sloppily done that I doubt the team even wanted to do this. I hope whatever brainless executive mandated this got what they wanted to see and gets the boot before too many more players leave.

And next is Dark Brotherhood, which itself is quite polarizing since there are people who love the fantasy of playing a murderhobo, while others are more on the lines of “I need to delete my account if I accidentally hurt the NPC’s feelings.” I can’t imagine the DB would be able to support a long season, and even less so now that so many people are disgruntled.

Llevndryn

Furyous wrote: »

It’s like the event was planned under the old post-paid model, and then halfway through, the monetization changed.
Once the content was prepaid, the structure fell apart.

It's exactly what happen. The devs openly stated this in interviews: it was supposed to be a Chapter, and the new model was changed halfway through. It really feels like Microsoft asked to cut costs and stop the development of this event before it was finished.

This_0ne

This year, a transition from the old system to the new, feels like a year-long adventure (like the last 3-4 years). We'll only be able to fully assess the quality of the season pass model in 2026.

But I want to talk about the wall event. It's the most FOMO crap I've ever seen in this game, and I don't want to see ESO go in that direction! Besides, I prefer to buy content and have access to it immediately or pay a subscription and get access by subscription, rather than wait a month until I am allowed to play ALREADY CREATED CONTENT!

I'd prefer they return to the DLC model, and for God's sake, not a year-long one. Short stories about small issues. For example, how Sheogorath had designs to College of Winterhold, or the argonians and their proximity to House Dres lands, or how the Companions became werewolves.

twisttop138

kargen27 wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I believe it was announced 2025 would be a transition year from what we had to what is coming. Maybe I am remembering wrong but pretty sure 2025 was meant as a one off to get the game where they want it to end up.

They did say this, you're correct. But a transition year doesn't exempt them from delivering quality content that we actually paid more for. They don't just get a pass from criticism because they were vague about what's to come in a letter last December. Be clear. Concise. Don't charge more for less then tell us it's a world changing once in a lifetime chance to save the realm.

They were also clear in that letter about what's coming. No more chapters. New stories in old zones. 3 months seasons, which will probably go something like this.The dark brotherhood faces a new threat from an old foe. Gather your allies as you journey across Tamriel, to beloved, iconic locations as you fight to stop this new threat. Culminating in a showdown for the ages. Will you save the brotherhood or will McGuffin destroy all you've worked so hard to build. What it really means though is we strung together some prologue length quests that we'll release a couple times throughout the season. Maybe some new pockets in old delves where you'll face an enemy. Maybe once next year they'll release this Craglorn lite adventure mini zone they talked about. Throw in some furnishing plans, a couple antiquity leads, something for the master writ vendor. Reskin some outfits and stuff as rewards for the season. Cap it off with a golden pursuit with a mount and or house and boom. You're done. There's your money, but they'll want you to pay for the entire year or maybe by the season but you'll have to pay. Still no confirmation that there'll be more dungeons, a new trial, a new class, companion. To say nothing of everything else we lose without chapters. New systems, side quests, delves, public dungeons, world bosses, exploration.

So I think it's entirely fair to tell them, loudly, now if you don't like it or what's been hinted at. The more voices raised the better. It'll probably make no difference, look at just the basics ignored this year. Class balance, crippling combat issues. Still though, I love this game. I want it to be a 30 year mmo. I've played for almost 10 years. I'll be here till the lights go dark. So I feel like we can't cut them any slack in this regard, though with the year they've had some stuff is perfectly understandable. Anyway, just one guys worthless opinion.

My intent wasn't to defend this years content but to point out in might be an anomaly. The opening post and others suggest what we have now is what we are going to be getting here on out. I'm just reminding people we might be getting something different so don't give up hope just yet.
By all means let them know this wasn't a good year in a lot of aspects though.

Oh for sure. Wasn't trying to target your post, I was in rant mode. It's such a bummer. I log on and have such a blast with my buddies on raid nights or guild events but there's like this undercurrent of anger and disappointment.

We're seeing people going on hiatus or break. My entire main raid team is on hiatus until a couple months before the next trial. But the crazy thing is we don't know if there *is* a next trial. It sucks to see people slowly slip away as anger and uncertainty settles over many in the community. People in guild discords are talking about this year, the event, how they're afraid next year will be even worse.
As an officer in a social guild, we're starting to get our first NW refugees, and that could be a big win for the game. Zos just has to capitalize on it.

SaffronCitrusflower

Furyous wrote: »

Has the shift in how content is sold fundamentally changed the quality we can expect?

ESO used to sell expansions that were complete before asking players to pay.
You knew what you were buying.
You could evaluate the content, the scope, the features, and decide if it was worth your money.
That model rewarded effort, polish, and transparency.

Now we have “content passes.”
We prepay for content that hasn’t been created yet.
There’s no roadmap, no feature list, no accountability.
Just a vague promise that something will arrive eventually.

And when it does?
We get events like Writhing Wall, marketed as a “once in a lifetime” experience:

• The biggest threat the game has ever faced
• A massive, mysterious wall
• A fanatical cult
• A realm-threatening incursion

It was framed as the pinnacle of narrative and gameplay, something that would define the year.

And how do we fight this ultimate evil?
We spend weeks knitting sweaters to finally unlock Phase Two, only to find it just added socks to the knitting list.
This is the real reason people play fantasy games full of dragons and demonic gods, to gather supplies for months.
What’s Phase Three going to be? Sort the sweaters and socks by color and size?
Gods, what I’m really hoping for is to finally realize my lifelong gaming goal of washing and folding the laundry.
I mean, world threats are only won by neat housekeeping practiced over months of daily repetition.

The gameplay loop:

• Housekeeping
• Underwhelming and minimal rewards
• Weeks of chores with no payoff

What really confuses me is that there’s clearly talent involved.
The graphics are solid.
The story setup is compelling.
But the delivery feels sloppy, lazy, and uninspired.
It’s like the event was planned under the old post-paid model, and then halfway through, the monetization changed.
Once the content was prepaid, the structure fell apart.

So here’s the question for the devs and the community:
If the content is already paid for, what incentive is left to make sure it’s good?
Where’s the pressure to deliver something compelling, complete, or even coherent?

The failure of this event, and likely future ones, is baked into the model.
When content is prepaid and undefined, quality becomes optional.

I’m posting it because I care about the game and the community.
We deserve better than vague promises and post-paid disappointment.

The only metric that matters is if the event is failing ZOS' target numbers. I agree with you fully, but I think we're in a new era now.