Please let werewolves crouch/sneak by next year's Witches Festival

Erickson9610

I want to participate in the Lord Hollowjack boss fight, but that requires the ability to sneak, which werewolves cannot do while transformed.

I'm just frustrated because the Witches Festival only comes around for a few weeks each year, and I know that if Werewolf isn't allowed to sneak like everyone else can, then it's just going to be impossible for werewolves to follow the mechanics of that fight. I want to participate in this fight, but I also want to bring my preferred playstyle to it. It's impossible to play how I want if I cannot access the tools I need to be successful, albeit suboptimal.


For those curious, there are already Werewolf sneaking animations in-game, there are werewolves in-lore and in-game who are stealthy, and we could sneak as a transformed werewolf in TES games before Skyrim. It should be a feature in ESO.

@ZOS_Kevin

JaxontheUnfortunate

I second this.

Mathius_Mordred

We took 7 werewolves into Jack on Tuesday. We couldn't sneak, but we could outrun him. Only two of our mutts got the finger, and we finished it just fine. I would like to see it added, although mostly for March of Sacrifices, in vet, if you can't sneak on the Indrik boss, you're basically screwed, so we always have to lose form at that point, then earn it back again.

However, although there's always a massive demand for so many changes that werewolves need to make them more viable, more customisable and generally more fun to play, sadly, our mangy mutt seems to be a long way off the devs' radar.

JaxontheUnfortunate

Yeah I agree, there is a side boss you can do before the tracyr fight that allows transformed werewolves to do that fight without needing to crouch.

Erickson9610

JaxontheUnfortunate wrote: »

Yeah I agree, there is a side boss you can do before the tracyr fight that allows transformed werewolves to do that fight without needing to crouch.

Unfortunately that side boss requires you to crouch. You cannot interact with the wisp when you're not crouched, and you still get teleported if you're not crouched in the fog.

It's possibly the most insulting game design decision to make both a mandatory boss and the side boss to avoid the penalty of not crouching require crouching themselves. And it's insulting thematically that this happens in the place that's literally the final resting place of werewolves, yet werewolves are the only playstyle in the game which cannot crouch — and that's not considering the fact that vampires have a much easier time with the removal of the sneak speed reduction penalty!

JaxontheUnfortunate

Fair but at least you can use it, considering how long werewolf players have been asking for this basic core game function and have yet to see any official response from Zoe regarding it this is likely the best we can hope for.

Erickson9610

I know it's technically possible to complete the March of Sacrifices dungeon in Werewolf form the entire time from start to finish if you use invisibility potions with cooldown reduction glyphs. And that it's possible to outrun Lord Hollowjack and finish the fight while in Werewolf form the entire time.

The point of this thread is that these workarounds shouldn't be necessary. There are several things that Werewolves can't do even with those workarounds — they can't get past those lasers in Graven Deep, they can't activate sets like Sentry or Darloc Brae, and they can't assassinate NPCs from stealth to avoid getting a bounty.

Really, I just want to not have to jump through so many hoops to do things that anyone who's in human form can do so easily.

Gabriel_H

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I want to participate in the Lord Hollowjack boss fight, but that requires the ability to sneak, which werewolves cannot do while transformed.

I know I'm just picking up a technical point, but crouch not sneak. There are several "detection" states that you go through.

You start at NONE, then progress to HIDING, then HIDDEN. At HIDDEN you are sneaking, you can then become HIDDEN_ALMOST_DETECTED or outright DETECTED.

These mechanics require the HIDDEN or HIDDEN_ALMOST_DETECTED state - you only lose those states if you run out of stamina or cancel the crouch. There is no actual detection done by the boss. ZOS should be able to implement it so that the fight allows the HIDING state as well, so that when WWs crouch they enter this state but not further.

That would mean WWs could still not enter HIDDEN or HIDDEN_ALMOST_DETECTED which would then still lock them out of all other sneaking/stealth related mechs and ability use and set procs - meaning a fix for this fight (and MoS if they did the same) without allowing WWs to actually sneak.

Edit: Typos

Treeshka

If Werewolf can not sneak. Is it also not possible to do the Indrik boss in the March of Sacrifices?

Erickson9610

Treeshka wrote: »

If Werewolf can not sneak. Is it also not possible to do the Indrik boss in the March of Sacrifices?

That is correct. Pressing the crouch button does nothing.

Erickson9610

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I want to participate in the Lord Hollowjack boss fight, but that requires the ability to sneak, which werewolves cannot do while transformed.

I know I'm just picking up a technical point, but crouch not sneak. There are several "detection" states that you go through.

You start at NONE, then progress to HIDING, then HIDDEN. At HIDDEN you are sneaking, you can then become HIDDEN_ALMOST_DETECTED or outright DETECTED.

These mechanics require the HIDDEN or HIDDEN_ALMOST_DETECTED state - you only lose those states if you run out of stamina or cancel the crouch. There is no actual detection done by the boss. ZOS should be able to implement it so that the fight allows the HIDING state as well, so that when WWs crouch they enter this state but not further.

That would mean WWs could still not enter HIDDEN or HIDDEN_ALMOST_DETECTED which would then still lock them out of all other sneaking/stealth related mechs and ability use and set procs - meaning a fix for this fight (and MoS if they did the same) without allowing WWs to actually sneak.

Edit: Typos

The problem is that werewolves cannot even begin crouching. Pressing the crouch button does nothing.

Hopefully ZOS lets werewolves crouch and enter stealth soon. There is no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to do either.

gorky1

Perhaps an easy solution is to allow something similar to subclassing.

Allow the swapping out of skills for werewolf...
Not all skills just the ones you want to from other lines. (Enter subclassing with night blade )

It would be interesting to see werewolves with other skills besides the normal 5. (Can't swap out ult)

gorky1

gorky1 wrote: »

Perhaps an easy solution is to allow something similar to subclassing.

Allow the swapping out of skills for werewolf...
Not all skills just the ones you want to from other lines. (Enter subclassing with night blade )

It would be interesting to see werewolves with other skills besides the normal 5. (Can't swap out ult)

I changed my mind.
It would be even simpler to allow WW to have a backbar finally. Front is automatically WW, back is the skills of your choosing while in WW.
Solves the Cloudrest problem...

IncultaWolf

Didn't they say something last year about how this issue would be brought up to the team? I guess they decided to ignore it

Erickson9610

gorky1 wrote: »

gorky1 wrote: »

Perhaps an easy solution is to allow something similar to subclassing.

Allow the swapping out of skills for werewolf...
Not all skills just the ones you want to from other lines. (Enter subclassing with night blade )

It would be interesting to see werewolves with other skills besides the normal 5. (Can't swap out ult)

I changed my mind.
It would be even simpler to allow WW to have a backbar finally. Front is automatically WW, back is the skills of your choosing while in WW.
Solves the Cloudrest problem...

I don't think Werewolves should get non-Werewolf abilities, but I do think they should have a back bar which is just a clone of their Werewolf bar. That would allow them to perform the bar swapping action (for use with the Relequen mechanics in Cloudrest or with item sets which give you a different bonus depending on the active bar) but it wouldn't make Werewolf into a two-bar build.

Gabriel_H

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I want to participate in the Lord Hollowjack boss fight, but that requires the ability to sneak, which werewolves cannot do while transformed.

I know I'm just picking up a technical point, but crouch not sneak. There are several "detection" states that you go through.

You start at NONE, then progress to HIDING, then HIDDEN. At HIDDEN you are sneaking, you can then become HIDDEN_ALMOST_DETECTED or outright DETECTED.

These mechanics require the HIDDEN or HIDDEN_ALMOST_DETECTED state - you only lose those states if you run out of stamina or cancel the crouch. There is no actual detection done by the boss. ZOS should be able to implement it so that the fight allows the HIDING state as well, so that when WWs crouch they enter this state but not further.

That would mean WWs could still not enter HIDDEN or HIDDEN_ALMOST_DETECTED which would then still lock them out of all other sneaking/stealth related mechs and ability use and set procs - meaning a fix for this fight (and MoS if they did the same) without allowing WWs to actually sneak.

Edit: Typos

The problem is that werewolves cannot even begin crouching. Pressing the crouch button does nothing.

Hopefully ZOS lets werewolves crouch and enter stealth soon. There is no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to do either.

I'm saying WWs should be given the ability to crouch, but not reach full sneak status. Then tune HJ and MoS to only require HIDING status.

It's a simple fix that shouldn't affect the wider sneak/stealth mechs.

Erickson9610

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I want to participate in the Lord Hollowjack boss fight, but that requires the ability to sneak, which werewolves cannot do while transformed.

I know I'm just picking up a technical point, but crouch not sneak. There are several "detection" states that you go through.

You start at NONE, then progress to HIDING, then HIDDEN. At HIDDEN you are sneaking, you can then become HIDDEN_ALMOST_DETECTED or outright DETECTED.

These mechanics require the HIDDEN or HIDDEN_ALMOST_DETECTED state - you only lose those states if you run out of stamina or cancel the crouch. There is no actual detection done by the boss. ZOS should be able to implement it so that the fight allows the HIDING state as well, so that when WWs crouch they enter this state but not further.

That would mean WWs could still not enter HIDDEN or HIDDEN_ALMOST_DETECTED which would then still lock them out of all other sneaking/stealth related mechs and ability use and set procs - meaning a fix for this fight (and MoS if they did the same) without allowing WWs to actually sneak.

Edit: Typos

The problem is that werewolves cannot even begin crouching. Pressing the crouch button does nothing.

Hopefully ZOS lets werewolves crouch and enter stealth soon. There is no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to do either.

I'm saying WWs should be given the ability to crouch, but not reach full sneak status. Then tune HJ and MoS to only require HIDING status.

It's a simple fix that shouldn't affect the wider sneak/stealth mechs.

Why shouldn't werewolves be allowed to enter full sneak status?