PVP Deserves More Respect

PathosDante

When I look back at the MMORPGs I’ve played over the years, the ones I’ve spent the most time on have always been the ones with strong PVP systems — and I’ve seen the same thing among my friends, too.

Interestingly, the PVP mechanics in this game have satisfied me more than enough, and I haven’t felt the need to look for another game. However, there’s definitely something this game lacks compared to others, and that is…

PVP players are not rewarded enough.

For example, in a game I played before ESO, there was a system where you earned “Nation Points” by getting kills in PVP areas. These points contributed to your in-game status, which made players constantly fight each other in PVP arenas.

ESO has Alliance Points too, but let’s be real — they’re basically useless. The game needs real incentives to make people want to farm them. Give us rewards that make us never want to leave Cyrodill!

I think the rewards should go beyond just armor sets or gold — something that really feels worth it. I’d actually love to hear what others think about this too. Back in the game I used to play, those points gave your character an emblem next to their name showing your status, and guilds were always eager to recruit players with higher ranks.

So, what do you guys think? Why am I out here farming bosses in the Archive instead of living in Cyrodiil? 😄

PathosDante

One more thing: Alliance Points are way too easy to get. I feel like if you earn points for killing someone, you should lose points when you die too. This would let characters with zero points try to earn them back in battlegrounds rather than hanging around the big PVP zones.

I believe dying in PVP should cost you points too.

Arboz

I mainly play the game for PvP.
To be honest, I dont care at all about rewards and points and ranks, its simply the fun of battle that motivates me.

Major_Mangle

PathosDante wrote: »

One more thing: Alliance Points are way too easy to get. I feel like if you earn points for killing someone, you should lose points when you die too. This would let characters with zero points try to earn them back in battlegrounds rather than hanging around the big PVP zones.

I believe dying in PVP should cost you points too.

A better approach imo would be to reduce the amount of AP for taking objectives like resourcs and keeps, but increase it for killing players, and the more people who attacked a target the less AP each participants gets (afaik that's how it currently works). We need less incentives for PvDoor and more for PvP.

Losing currency is fine for IC with the telvar system but I don't see any need for AP to behave the same way.

JohnRingo

I just want to destroy my enemies in PvP.

If you find yourself alone, riding in the green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled. For you are in Elysium, and you are already dead!

SolarRune

Let's be honest here, the rewards across the whole game are awful. Doing a trial hm prog group costs players alot of gold in the different resources required and potential gear change and upgrades etc. And you get very little reward and nothing near the input to getting that complete.

PathosDante

Major_Mangle wrote: »

PathosDante wrote: »

One more thing: Alliance Points are way too easy to get. I feel like if you earn points for killing someone, you should lose points when you die too. This would let characters with zero points try to earn them back in battlegrounds rather than hanging around the big PVP zones.

I believe dying in PVP should cost you points too.

A better approach imo would be to reduce the amount of AP for taking objectives like resourcs and keeps, but increase it for killing players, and the more people who attacked a target the less AP each participants gets (afaik that's how it currently works). We need less incentives for PvDoor and more for PvP.

Losing currency is fine for IC with the telvar system but I don't see any need for AP to behave the same way.

I definitely think there should be a penalty for dying in PvP. What makes Imperial fun is the risk of losing Tel Var — we try to avoid dying, flee to stay alive, or attack to earn Tel Var. IC is perfect in that sense.

JohnRingo

Whatever. I don't care what penalties you put on dying In PvP.. Just get in the damn game. Lets go!

Zyaneth_Bal

With plenty of bad changes over the years and no new pvp content or updates pvp has been dying out for a long time. With the addition of multiclassing even blackreach has become a wasteland at prime time and gray host only reaches locked pop momentarily on pceu. Can’t picture devs suddenly decide to care, at this point they are more likely to delete pvp altogether.

duagloth

Major_Mangle wrote: »

PathosDante wrote: »

One more thing: Alliance Points are way too easy to get. I feel like if you earn points for killing someone, you should lose points when you die too. This would let characters with zero points try to earn them back in battlegrounds rather than hanging around the big PVP zones.

I believe dying in PVP should cost you points too.

A better approach imo would be to reduce the amount of AP for taking objectives like resourcs and keeps, but increase it for killing players, and the more people who attacked a target the less AP each participants gets (afaik that's how it currently works). We need less incentives for PvDoor and more for PvP.

Losing currency is fine for IC with the telvar system but I don't see any need for AP to behave the same way.

What about those who only go to unlock skills? Lowering ap is the last thing you should do.

Zyaneth_Bal

PathosDante wrote: »

When I look back at the MMORPGs I’ve played over the years, the ones I’ve spent the most time on have always been the ones with strong PVP systems — and I’ve seen the same thing among my friends, too.

Interestingly, the PVP mechanics in this game have satisfied me more than enough, and I haven’t felt the need to look for another game. However, there’s definitely something this game lacks compared to others, and that is…

PVP players are not rewarded enough.

For example, in a game I played before ESO, there was a system where you earned “Nation Points” by getting kills in PVP areas. These points contributed to your in-game status, which made players constantly fight each other in PVP arenas.

ESO has Alliance Points too, but let’s be real — they’re basically useless. The game needs real incentives to make people want to farm them. Give us rewards that make us never want to leave Cyrodill!

I think the rewards should go beyond just armor sets or gold — something that really feels worth it. I’d actually love to hear what others think about this too. Back in the game I used to play, those points gave your character an emblem next to their name showing your status, and guilds were always eager to recruit players with higher ranks.

So, what do you guys think? Why am I out here farming bosses in the Archive instead of living in Cyrodiil? 😄

Sadly have to inform you that archival fortunes are just as worthless as ap

robwolf666

"PVP players are not rewarded enough" - Really? I thought it was people who focus on PvE that got the short end of the stick when it comes to rewards, especially the cooler ones.

Depends of perspective, I guess...

JohnRingo

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

With plenty of bad changes over the years and no new pvp content or updates pvp has been dying out for a long time. With the addition of multiclassing even blackreach has become a wasteland at prime time and gray host only reaches locked pop momentarily on pceu. Can’t picture devs suddenly decide to care, at this point they are more likely to delete pvp altogether.

Real PvP isn't going anywhere. Give me 200 real PvP soldiers in Cyro with no restrictions on our gameplay and that's all we ask. Then leave us alone. The rest of you are dismissed. Go play Candyland.

amiiegee

pvp deserves NO vengeance testing anymore

Zyaneth_Bal

JohnRingo wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

With plenty of bad changes over the years and no new pvp content or updates pvp has been dying out for a long time. With the addition of multiclassing even blackreach has become a wasteland at prime time and gray host only reaches locked pop momentarily on pceu. Can’t picture devs suddenly decide to care, at this point they are more likely to delete pvp altogether.

Real PvP isn't going anywhere. Give me 200 real PvP soldiers in Cyro with no restrictions on our gameplay and that's all we ask. Then leave us alone. The rest of you are dismissed. Go play Candyland.

Yeah, there’s no real pvp anymore. You ask for 200 pvpers like it would be easy to find that many, cyro pop cap is about 60 per alliance💀

PathosDante

robwolf666 wrote: »

"PVP players are not rewarded enough" - Really? I thought it was people who focus on PvE that got the short end of the stick when it comes to rewards, especially the cooler ones.

Depends of perspective, I guess...

A true PvP experience is always more challenging than even the most veteran-level PvE content. That's why I think this way.

BXR_Lonestar

Arboz wrote: »

I mainly play the game for PvP.
To be honest, I dont care at all about rewards and points and ranks, its simply the fun of battle that motivates me.

This. Nothing more fun than killing or trolling your enemies. Those 30k+ D-Ticks are just the cherry on the cake.

aetherix8

Isn’t PvP the biggest reward of PvP? I have read this over and over on this forum.
Still, rewards could be improved; personally I would like to see camps added to the rewards of the worthy, just like recall stones. Tri-stat pots would be a great addition, and it could boost populations, as PvEers would have more incentive to participate in PvP.

DenverRalphy

No ESO activity that requires participation in anything remotely outside of the casual players comfort zone will ever reward anything noteworthy or special. PvP is waaay outside that casual comfort zone.

Gabriel_H

PathosDante wrote: »

I definitely think there should be a penalty for dying in PvP. What makes Imperial fun is the risk of losing Tel Var — we try to avoid dying, flee to stay alive, or attack to earn Tel Var. IC is perfect in that sense.

The penalty is typically to lose/fail to capture a resource/keep. IC has a single flag in a few zones with the bonus for control simply being an increased TV drop rate. Cyro has 18 Keeps and 54 Resources with bonus for control being stat buffs which can alter the gameplay. It's a completely different animal.

Gabriel_H

aetherix8 wrote: »

Tri-stat pots would be a great addition, and it could boost populations, as PvEers would have more incentive to participate in PvP.

1,000 AP from a Battleground Vendor/Siege Merchants

SneaK

They need to incentivize objectives and come up with some fresh additions to Cyro. The fights are mostly meaningless nowadays because the 1vX mentality has overtaken objective Cyro. One Tamriel really killed it honestly. People just hop all over factions and don’t care about winning camps anymore. Peak Cyro was when people were loyal to factions and played for each other, their guilds, etc, rather than “AP” or clipping a 1vX.

There’s really just been so many random changes along with boredom that has destroyed the PvP community. I say community cause the bones of Cyro are still there, it’s the “why” that’s changed and it’s cause ZOS has pushed people away from objective play.

Couple examples-

I could care less if Goliath420xv1 gets emperor on AD when they had emperor for 15 days on EP last month. Doesn’t make me want to play the obj.

Why go from the southern gate to capture Arrius Mine after EP night capped with hammer, for 3k AP, when I could just go repair walls that randomly degrade overtime for the same amount.

katanagirl1

I PvP in Cyrodiil just for the fun, but it would be nice to have more cool stuff to purchase than more set gear. I think the AP is fine, fewer players now mean smaller AP ticks. Having punishment for dying would be a disincentive because of the fewer players and more dying now anyway. Just get rid of sets like RoA and the Warden charm and reduce heal stacking in a group and it would be way more fun automatically.

SeaGtGruff

PathosDante wrote: »

One more thing: Alliance Points are way too easy to get. I feel like if you earn points for killing someone, you should lose points when you die too. This would let characters with zero points try to earn them back in battlegrounds rather than hanging around the big PVP zones.

I believe dying in PVP should cost you points too.

Yeah, that would be REALLY respectful to the players. PvP has enough trouble attracting new blood, and you want to run them all off so you can be in Cyrodiil all by yourself? And who would be left for you to kill then, I wonder?

Soarora

Realistically, both PvP and mid-late game group PvE will not get an abundance of attractive rewards. People want the rewards without getting outside of their comfort zone and ZOS tends to cater to bad players instead of pushing them to get better. I remember when the imperial city style pages (don’t remember name off the top of my head) were announced as a boon to the PvP community, something only real PvPers would be able to get and show off with… yeah, later there was a thread by someone complaining that they couldn’t get it without doing real PvP.

SeaGtGruff

As far as taking away points for dying and only giving points for doing "real PvP," how's this?

- Stop giving AP for anything other than killing another player. Capturing a resource or keep? No AP for that, except whatever you got from killing players. Capture or reclaim a scroll? No AP for that. (I don't think you get any AP for that now, anyway, other than for turning in a mission quest for it.) Turning in any sort of mission quest or Fighters Guild bounty quest? No AP.

- As for giving AP for killing other players, give an amount equal to whatever the other player lost by getting killed-- say, 50% of whatever AP they had. Yeah, you know-- exactly like with TV in Imperial City, except you can't get any AP from capturing stuff or from turning in quests, since those things can be accomplished without doing "real PvP" (like, through "PvDoor").

I guarantee it will be a rousing success and will draw "real PvP" players to Cyrodiil like flies to honey. You know how I know? Because Imperial City is always so incredibly crowded with "real PvP" players all the time. I mean, it isn't like most of them only ever go to Imperial City when there's an event going on that will draw non-PvP and casual-PvP players there to be picked off like shooting fish in a barrel, right?

/sarcasm

spartaxoxo

PathosDante wrote: »

One more thing: Alliance Points are way too easy to get. I feel like if you earn points for killing someone, you should lose points when you die too. This would let characters with zero points try to earn them back in battlegrounds rather than hanging around the big PVP zones.

I believe dying in PVP should cost you points too.

This idea is the reason IC is the least popular PvP game mode by a country mile.

Stamicka

A lack of rewards is definitely part of the problem with ESO PvP, but I don’t think that it is the main reason why people aren’t PvPing. There’s a lot of strictly solo questers who play ESO and absolutely despise PvP. Not even the greatest rewards would incentivize those types of players.

On the other hand there’s people out there who just enjoy PvP and competition. Winning or improving is reward enough and in game incentives are just a bonus. I don’t think many of these types of players play ESO anymore. In its current state, ESO does not attract any new players of this type either. The game seems like it’s made to mostly attract solo questers who hate PvP and wouldn’t join anyway.

So the solution is improve PvP to attract PvP players from other games. This would involve adjusting balance, increasing ways to express skill, getting performance under control and more. This hasn’t happened and doesn’t seem to be happening. So unfortunately, better rewards alone wouldn’t do much.

I think that this post is oversimplifying things way too much. To be honest it doesn’t even read as human written to me. If it isn’t, just post from your lived experience in the game. Why use AI for something like this?

DenverRalphy

Stamicka wrote: »

So the solution is improve PvP to attract PvP players from other games. This would involve adjusting balance, increasing ways to express skill, getting performance under control and more. This hasn’t happened and doesn’t seem to be happening. So unfortunately, better rewards alone wouldn’t do much.

Unfortunately, at this point I don't think it's actually possible. While I really don't wish to say it out loud, I honestly think that ESO's proprietary engine and server infrastructure are just not up to the task. They shot themselves in the foot by insisting on developing an in-house proprietary model and failing to design it to accomodate scalability and evolution. There are numerous other online games out there with comparable (if not more) feature rich PvP, significantly more detailed bloom effects and graphics, yet still have nowhere near the performance issues as ESO.

And now with hybridization combined with the release of subclassing, attempts at balancing will be akin putting toothpaste back in the tube.

I wish that wasn't the impression that I've been seeing the past couple/few years. But many of the actions, and sometimes telling inactions, strengthen that impression. Short of a complete overhaul from the bottom up, I don't know there's much hope for improvement.

God I hope I'm wrong.

ArchMikem

PathosDante wrote: »

I believe dying in PVP should cost you points too.

I definitely think there should be a penalty for dying in PvP. What makes Imperial fun is the risk of losing Tel Var — we try to avoid dying, flee to stay alive, or attack to earn Tel Var. IC is perfect in that sense.

You guys are advocating for the absolute best way to kill PvP. Cyrodiil already had a problem with invincible ball groups farming randoms. The average player going into Cyrodiil is going to die five times for every kill they manage to get. You suddenly throw in a penalty that takes things away from them? They're never going to set foot in PvP ever again.

This is not the encouragement to git gud you think it is.

aetherix8

Gabriel_H wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

Tri-stat pots would be a great addition, and it could boost populations, as PvEers would have more incentive to participate in PvP.

1,000 AP from a Battleground Vendor/Siege Merchants

It’s great that there’s smth real good to spend our AP on, but if I have to buy it then it isn’t a reward. My idea was to add it to the end of campaign rewards. Full stack for winning a campaign, and no pots for 2nd and 3rd place, for example. And include some camps in the rewards of the worthy.