Veng - Why design the loadout system this way?

MincMincMinc

@ZOS_Kevin I have pointed this out in other threads already, but might aswell make it its own topic

Why do the loadout and perk system? Why wouldn't you design a stat choice system that just looks like the gear system. They could have made the UI look like anything. Game design wise for new players it would make far more sense to have the stat system mimic the traditional gear system that ESO uses. Otherwise its just another thing for them to learn.....in most cases having to turn towards youtubers and wiki articles.

Instead the loadout menu could have just been like a UESP build page where you select two 5 piece sets. Click a dropdown for enchants. Click a dropdown for a food choice. These are choices and concepts already baked into everyone's mind. Not only that, but zos would have squashed most of the worry where people fear vengeance wont have gear and item choices. As vengeance would continue to test and add the traditional food system or other systems in you would just disable that part of the menu. I assume at some point you would make vengeance/cyrodil specific item sets that are more performative than lives proc sets.

This is all the menu had to be........If you really wanted, you could have baked the armory type system into it where you can make 4 preset saves which helps new players test and compare without hours of swapping gear around headache.

MashmalloMan

That's actually a fantastic point. If the idea is to test and mimic the live experience, why is it unrecognizable to how the game actually plays and feels.

Many players are put off by the call of duty style perk selection appearing in their MMO even if the reality is, it's just a simplified version of what sets already do, it's just been done in an unfamiliar way.

They could of easily done this instead:

• Blue = 5x piece set
• Red = 5x piece set
• Yellow = Mythic + 1x piece OR 2x piece Monster set

Obviously for set bonuses, they can start small, don't include all 500+ sets. They can curate what's available, and even modify where necessary like they're already doing with the perk system.

Then add 4 more options:

• Purple = 1x Armor trait... 14% crit resist, +64% mundus strength, -42% sprint/roll dodge cost, etc.
• Green = 1x Weapon Enchant... Flame, Berserk, Absorb Magicka, etc.
• Orange = Food... HP/Stam, HP/Mag, HP/Mag/Mag Rec, HP/Stam/Stam Rec, etc.
• Pink (lol) = Mundus Stone

Could maybe add an 8th option to simulate Armor passives and weight selection. Eg. Scout (7 medium) gives x roll dodge cost, x speed, and x w/s damage. Brawler (5/1/1) gives x, y, z... etc.

I would entirely ignore allowing the player to pick 7 indiviudal armor traits, 2-4 weapon traits, 2-4 weapon enchants, 3 jewelry enchants, and even potions (tri-pot is a good catch all) because this would get to the meat and potatoes of theory crafting easier.

The selections are mandatory to even enter the campaign so it begins to better introduce new players to what it takes to make a competive build in PVP. They also need to get rid of the inflated stats, going from 70k HP and 30k HOTS to normal PVP has to be confusing.

I'm generally not a supporter of what I'm seeing from Vengence so far, especially since they seem to be ignoring the rest of the game, but if you did these more 1:1 ideas, and added morphs back into the skills to reintroduc build variety and playstyles we love (eg. Crystal Frag vs Crystal Weapon), then I could easily see this replacing multiple Campaigns like 7 day, no proc, and under 50. Hell, I may even like it as a long time player at that point. It may even improve performance for people not engaging with that campaign which could be a win/win.

acastanza_ESO

People seem to be misunderstanding perks, they aren't the gear set replacement, they're the CP replacement.
(They still stuck though)

MincMincMinc

MashmalloMan wrote: »

That's actually a fantastic point. If the idea is to test and mimic the live experience, why is it unrecognizable to how the game actually plays and feels.

Many players are put off by the call of duty style perk selection appearing in their MMO even if the reality is, it's just a simplified version of what sets already do, it's just been done in an unfamiliar way.

They could of easily done this instead:

• Blue = 5x piece set
• Red = 5x piece set
• Yellow = Mythic + 1x piece OR 2x piece Monster set

Obviously for set bonuses, they can start small, don't include all 500+ sets. They can curate what's available, and even modify where necessary like they're already doing with the perk system.

Then add 4 more options:

• Purple = 1x Armor trait... 14% crit resist, +64% mundus strength, -42% sprint/roll dodge cost, etc.
• Green = 1x Weapon Enchant... Flame, Berserk, Absorb Magicka, etc.
• Orange = Food... HP/Stam, HP/Mag, HP/Mag/Mag Rec, HP/Stam/Stam Rec, etc.
• Pink (lol) = Mundus Stone

Could maybe add an 8th option to simulate Armor passives and weight selection. Eg. Scout (7 medium) gives x roll dodge cost, x speed, and x w/s damage. Brawler (5/1/1) gives x, y, z... etc.

I would entirely ignore allowing the player to pick 7 indiviudal armor traits, 2-4 weapon traits, 2-4 weapon enchants, 3 jewelry enchants, and even potions (tri-pot is a good catch all) because this would get to the meat and potatoes of theory crafting easier.

The selections are mandatory to even enter the campaign so it begins to better introduce new players to what it takes to make a competive build in PVP. They also need to get rid of the inflated stats, going from 70k HP and 30k HOTS to normal PVP has to be confusing.

I'm generally not a supporter of what I'm seeing from Vengence so far, especially since they seem to be ignoring the rest of the game, but if you did these more 1:1 ideas, and added morphs back into the skills to reintroduc build variety and playstyles we love (eg. Crystal Frag vs Crystal Weapon), then I could easily see this replacing multiple Campaigns like 7 day, no proc, and under 50. Hell, I may even like it as a long time player at that point. It may even improve performance for people not engaging with that campaign which could be a win/win.

I mean we are only in test 3. Even for test 4 they are still checking random background game systems like leaderboard or achievements and stuff nobody thinks about......honestly 90% of these things could be disabled in pvp and people wouldn't know. I expected from the start it would be 8-10 test cycles before they bring in sets or proc effect systems (items, weapon enchants, poisons, some passive skills, status effects)

Test 5 they had given us some insight on during the PTS48 livestream. Which is where they are going to try addressing the damage vs healing balance in vengeance. The exciting part is they are getting into actual combat tests we have been asking about for years with things like selective AoE caps. They are going to try higher AoE caps on damage and smaller caps on heals. Then try tweaking costs and tooltip balance in favor of damage.

Engineer wise to me i just dont care what it looks like 70khp + 5k from a loadout is no different to me than 70khp +5k from a 5 piece bonus. Ehhhhh whatever they want to call it for now works. For others people obviously care which was why I raised this counterpoint to vengeance. There was no reason to play into the hysteria and they could have simply called the system sets and CP and people would have been more happy.

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

People seem to be misunderstanding perks, they aren't the gear set replacement, they're the CP replacement.
(They still stuck though)

Like the noproc campaign it seems the goal was to use only hardcoded base stat type of modifiers. Which pretty much limits you to modifying the stats in your character sheet. We wont see 5 paragraph fancy proc effects until probably the last ever test.