Vengeance has officially ended the THREE BANNERS WAR

alternatelder

React wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there are shady people playing the game. But to say ball groups hope for lag so they can take advantage of people is just ridiculous. Balls groups die fast if the can't cast skills. Just like everyone else.

I don't think groups are purposefully causing lag, or attempting to cause lag in order to gain some benefit for themselves over their opponents. That's just silly.

But they are 100% undoubtedly the first and foremost cause of prime time PVP lag. Nearly every night I've played over the past few years, it becomes immediately clear when the ball groups log in and begin playing. You can genuinely feel it.

Further, zenimax themselves did firmly confirm that ball groups are the cause of the performance issues. Back during one of their early performance tests maybe 4-6 years ago (I think the AOE cooldown test or perhaps the cross healing test), they did share their "results" after finishing. They cited that the behaviors of certain groups stacking together and rapidly refreshing their buffs and heals was something they had not anticipated when designing ESO, and was the number one thing impacting performance.

While I agree many posters are going overboard with their suggestions that groups are maliciously causing the performance issues for their own gain, they aren't wrong that the groups are in fact the primary cause of the lag.

I don't necessarily agree all ball groups cause lag on purpose, but everyone I knew that discussed this years ago had the same experience with poor performance around them. I do know there was a well known group on DC PS that used a lag switch, (yes, it absolutely was possible before) and many of us would lag severely and either crash or just freeze up when they arrived. I do not believe they all do this, but it is possible these type of people are still playing and utilizing the same tools.

YandereGirlfriend

React wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there are shady people playing the game. But to say ball groups hope for lag so they can take advantage of people is just ridiculous. Balls groups die fast if the can't cast skills. Just like everyone else.

I don't think groups are purposefully causing lag, or attempting to cause lag in order to gain some benefit for themselves over their opponents. That's just silly.

But they are 100% undoubtedly the first and foremost cause of prime time PVP lag. Nearly every night I've played over the past few years, it becomes immediately clear when the ball groups log in and begin playing. You can genuinely feel it.

Further, zenimax themselves did firmly confirm that ball groups are the cause of the performance issues. Back during one of their early performance tests maybe 4-6 years ago (I think the AOE cooldown test or perhaps the cross healing test), they did share their "results" after finishing. They cited that the behaviors of certain groups stacking together and rapidly refreshing their buffs and heals was something they had not anticipated when designing ESO, and was the number one thing impacting performance.

While I agree many posters are going overboard with their suggestions that groups are maliciously causing the performance issues for their own gain, they aren't wrong that the groups are in fact the primary cause of the lag.

It is certainly a cause but it definitely isn't THE cause and anyone holding it up as like the Holy Gail of performance are deluding themselves.

The entire game is likely built upon a code base house of cards with inefficient logic for most of the game's core systems. Perhaps that is most exposed in Cyrodiil but it applies to all content. I have been in tons of trials and dungeons with simultaneous player crashes, random kicks, massive input delay, lag, rubber-banding, mechanics not animating, etc. And those aren't even like 1%'er trifecta sweat groups with 100+APM. That is just normal players playing the game.

ZOS needs to commit to re-writing that that code rather than stripping away entire game systems or playstyles. Otherwise, they are only temporarily masking the symptoms (which WILL return, as technical debt always does) rather than treating the actual disease.

Dimorphos

Maybe someone already set this straight but... Do you people realize that vengeance campaign is part of a larger testing and a problem solving "tool". It is not meant to be permanent. They have said this many times in written text and in streams.

It is a way to collect data about what is negatively effecting the gameplay and how to fix things. They have said this many times. Never-ever have they said or given even any hints that it would become a permanent pvp mode.

Yet you people complain about it quite a lot. Can you read or listen? Do you even? Or you just like to complain?

I am all about giving constructive feedback, complaining when things are not right etc. when it is clearly justified. But you all are complaining about a system that is there only for momentarily to collect data to solve problems.. Amazing.

Four_Fingers

Stop blaming ball groups for causing lag by using skills provided by the game when the problem is an engine, net code and server that can't handle the load, not to mention too many effects causing frame drop at the client.

aetherix8

Dimorphos wrote: »

Maybe someone already set this straight but... Do you people realize that vengeance campaign is part of a larger testing and a problem solving "tool". It is not meant to be permanent. They have said this many times in written text and in streams.

It is a way to collect data about what is negatively effecting the gameplay and how to fix things. They have said this many times. Never-ever have they said or given even any hints that it would become a permanent pvp mode.

Yet you people complain about it quite a lot. Can you read or listen? Do you even? Or you just like to complain?

I am all about giving constructive feedback, complaining when things are not right etc. when it is clearly justified. But you all are complaining about a system that is there only for momentarily to collect data to solve problems.. Amazing.

When it comes to Vengeance people scan posts fast, or only look at who the post’s author is, and then “read” what they want to read, understand what suits them most, afterwards they come up with some twisted conclusions, like being victims of some nefarious PvEers’ plot, or that anyone who sees potential in Vengeance wants GH deleted.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Stamicka wrote: »

There’s no Golden Pursuit for it and it’s running during the Undaunted event. It could’ve been planned better IMO..

Anyway despite being 0 bars I found more action than I would find in Gray Host at this time of day. If Vengeance is showing 0 bars, it could still very well be more populated than a Gray Host with 2 bars.

I'm in a pvp guild on Grey Host NA PC and inbetween the Undaunted event and the up coming Witches fest, we cut back to once a week in Cryodill to help with game burn out. We have 3 of top exp and loot grinds happening from Sept to late Dec, (Undaunted, Witches and Holiday/New Life), plus the Wall event so it's not surprising that players have slowed down in pvp land.

Stridig

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Stop blaming ball groups for causing lag by using skills provided by the game when the problem is an engine, net code and server that can't handle the load, not to mention too many effects causing frame drop at the client.

It's just easy to blame organized groups. The whole server suffers every night with the 80 person AD faction stack (which is awesome that AD has faction coordination like that) at any given keep, but we'll just blame the 10-12 people who spent time organizing an actual group.