The Official Vengeance Test Campaign Bug Report Thread (Test 3)

ZOS_Kevin

Please report any issues you run into while testing the new Vengeance Test in this thread. In general, we prefer you to use /bug in-game but if you’d rather submit a report here, please give us as much information as possible, including screenshots and/or video, and the time the issue occurred, if applicable. Thank you!

Darethran

Skill bug: Vengeance Barrier description says it stays up for 10 seconds after a 1 second cast time, but it only lasts for 1 second. This was the same in Vengeance 2.

The_Meathead

Getting popped by 16-17K Grim Focus, which seems awfully high given the Hps we're allotted

aetherix8

Once I entered Vengeance, the number of crowns I own was displayed as 0 which isn't correct. I didn't check the inventory currencies tab (I will do that tomorrow if this issue persists), just the menu's upper bar. When I left the campaign several hours later, the amount displayed was still 0.
/reloadui fixed this and the amount of crowns displayed is now correct.

MincMincMinc

With critsurge on LIVE i have a bug where the sound and electric hands part of the animation goes off after some time. This bug is still happening on vengeance. I thought these two should be completely separate skill wise.

Normally the animation should be

1. Click button
2. Character raises hands
3. Sound and electric animation plays
4. Character lowers hands

On live and vengeance I am getting:

1. Click button
2. Character raises hands
3. Character lowers hands
4. Sound and electric animation plays after half a second

Does vengeance use the same animation files as live? I only started getting this bug the past few weeks on live, and it is active from when I log in.

RedJohn_COF

You still get in cyro loading screens even though there were 0 bar each and only around idk 50 people alltogether at the same place.

22:18 CEST - Xbox EU - Loading Screen at Sej near the hill towards BRK.

ceruulean

The Group Rally Point graphics are messed up.

It should look like concentric red rings, or a red target. It looks normal on the map:


On the compass, it is pixelated:


My friend mentioned that he could see it, but it looked "weird."

MincMincMinc

I have to test more but there are several exploitable CC mechanics where players can be pulled or knockbacked and then also stunned by another source. As far as I can tell this has happened with chains, javalin, and the scattershot. I noticed this a lot with the arcanist delayed freeze CC skill Eldritch horror. Could be what is going off during the pull or something.

CC and heavy hitting skills like ultimates NEED to be very clear and fluid as they are the main play and counterplay mechanics of combat.

EDIT: adding that some roots(immobilizes) are not functioning properly in certain conditions and interact strangely with roll dodge. One being the necro aoe ground root. I would be rooted, roll dodge and pulled out of my roll dodge into a root which i had to roll dodge out of again. All while having CC immunity. During roll dodge you should not be pulled out by a root.

AngryPenguin

Vengeance itself is the bug that needs eradicating.

Just fix live cyrodiil like ZOS has promised to be "working on" since 2018. Why haven't we seen any positive results at any time other than when the server hardware was replaced?

Darethran

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Vengeance itself is the bug that needs eradicating.

Just fix live cyrodiil like ZOS has promised to be "working on" since 2018. Why haven't we seen any positive results at any time other than when the server hardware was replaced?

That's literally what Vengeance is for lmao

TheAwesomeChimpanzee

Darethran wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Vengeance itself is the bug that needs eradicating.

Just fix live cyrodiil like ZOS has promised to be "working on" since 2018. Why haven't we seen any positive results at any time other than when the server hardware was replaced?

That's literally what Vengeance is for lmao

No, that’s not the case. Live Cyrodiil is nothing close to what Vengeance offers in terms of combat or gameplay. When you strip out more than 90% of the systems, the game becomes almost unrecognizable.

The real problem is that ZOS keeps dodging the community’s concerns about Vengeance becoming a permanent mode, while refusing to be clear about its actual purpose. Is this just a data-gathering test to make meaningful but limited changes to live Cyrodiil, or are they trying to build a brand-new gamemode from the ground up that no one ever asked for? Until they answer that, pretending Vengeance is “literally” for fixing live just doesn’t hold up.

MorallyBipolar

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Vengeance itself is the bug that needs eradicating.

Just fix live cyrodiil like ZOS has promised to be "working on" since 2018. Why haven't we seen any positive results at any time other than when the server hardware was replaced?

The problem is were being told it's just a test, but it sure doesn't look like it's just a test. It looks like ZOS is going to force vengeance as their only Cyrodiil PvP option as soon as they can "test" the format that works best for them.

So the biggest bug related to vengeance is the apparent bait and switch ZOS is planning. The say one thing while doing another is the worst way a business can treat it's customers.

Darethran

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

No, that’s not the case. Live Cyrodiil is nothing close to what Vengeance offers in terms of combat or gameplay. When you strip out more than 90% of the systems, the game becomes almost unrecognizable.

The real problem is that ZOS keeps dodging the community’s concerns about Vengeance becoming a permanent mode, while refusing to be clear about its actual purpose. Is this just a data-gathering test to make meaningful but limited changes to live Cyrodiil, or are they trying to build a brand-new gamemode from the ground up that no one ever asked for? Until they answer that, pretending Vengeance is “literally” for fixing live just doesn’t hold up.

They have explicitly said it's to identify the performance impact of different mechanics and effects. Removing them all is what allowed performance to be much higher despite 3x the population. Vengeance has had a much bigger experience with much more activity than possible on live.

Did you even read the announcements? They explicitly said it.

The Vengeance campaign is open to all players level 10-50 and introduces a special ruleset to the Alliance War, templatizing player builds to help improve stability.

All players have normalized stats regardless of level
Each Class has a modified set of abilities and items
While in Vengeance, you cannot access your bank, vendors, or crafting nodes
Only Experience Points, Alliance Points, gold, and Champion Points are retained upon leaving the campaign, and no items can be taken out
The Champion System is disabled in this campaign
All quests are disabled in this campaign

Note that the templatizing of characters is an experiment and does not necessarily mean that these changes will be made to the Alliance War in the future. By introducing templatized characters for this specific test, we can isolate the variables that impact performance, helping us plan future improvements.

Either the people complaining about Vengeance can't read, or they're disingenuous and actively harming the PvP in this game.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee

Darethran wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

No, that’s not the case. Live Cyrodiil is nothing close to what Vengeance offers in terms of combat or gameplay. When you strip out more than 90% of the systems, the game becomes almost unrecognizable.

The real problem is that ZOS keeps dodging the community’s concerns about Vengeance becoming a permanent mode, while refusing to be clear about its actual purpose. Is this just a data-gathering test to make meaningful but limited changes to live Cyrodiil, or are they trying to build a brand-new gamemode from the ground up that no one ever asked for? Until they answer that, pretending Vengeance is “literally” for fixing live just doesn’t hold up.

They have explicitly said it's to identify the performance impact of different mechanics and effects. Removing them all is what allowed performance to be much higher despite 3x the population. Vengeance has had a much bigger experience with much more activity than possible on live.

Did you even read the announcements? They explicitly said it.

The Vengeance campaign is open to all players level 10-50 and introduces a special ruleset to the Alliance War, templatizing player builds to help improve stability.

All players have normalized stats regardless of level
Each Class has a modified set of abilities and items
While in Vengeance, you cannot access your bank, vendors, or crafting nodes
Only Experience Points, Alliance Points, gold, and Champion Points are retained upon leaving the campaign, and no items can be taken out
The Champion System is disabled in this campaign
All quests are disabled in this campaign

Note that the templatizing of characters is an experiment and does not necessarily mean that these changes will be made to the Alliance War in the future. By introducing templatized characters for this specific test, we can isolate the variables that impact performance, helping us plan future improvements.

Either the people complaining about Vengeance can't read, or they're disingenuous and actively harming the PvP in this game.

You’re quoting something from months ago, before the second tests even happened. At the start, yeah, everyone assumed Vengeance was just performance testing so ZOS could make meaningful changes to Cyrodiil without sacrificing what makes it good. Nobody’s arguing that.

But since then, ZOS’s own tone and direction have told a very different story. Look at the exact phrasing you’re parroting back: “does not necessarily mean”. That’s classic ZOS vagueness — deliberately leaving the door wide open. And what have we actually gotten since? Months of painfully slow “tests” that add basically nothing, a whole new perk system rolled out in test 4, and two patches in a row with zero balancing or meaningful updates. We’ve been playing the exact same game since subclassing launched, because all of their focus is on propping up Vengeance.

And whenever people ask on streams or forums what the true purpose of Vengeance is, not a single dev has come out and said what you’re highlighting in that post. Not once. All they ever talk about is showing off how Vengeance works, the new systems they’re adding for Vengeance, how much better it performs, or how much people supposedly like it. Never once do they address the actual question: are these tests to improve Vengeance… or are they to improve current Cyrodiil?

So if you can find anything — on the forums, or in their VODs — where they specifically say how this data is being used to improve Grey Host and not just this god-awful form of “PvP,” please let me know. Because until then, clinging to an outdated quote and pretending they answer the real question just makes it seem like you’re not really keeping up.

Darethran

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

You’re quoting something from months ago, before the second tests even happened. At the start, yeah, everyone assumed Vengeance was just performance testing so ZOS could make meaningful changes to Cyrodiil without sacrificing what makes it good. Nobody’s arguing that.

But since then, ZOS’s own tone and direction have told a very different story. Look at the exact phrasing you’re parroting back: “does not necessarily mean”. That’s classic ZOS vagueness — deliberately leaving the door wide open. And what have we actually gotten since? Months of painfully slow “tests” that add basically nothing, a whole new perk system rolled out in test 4, and two patches in a row with zero balancing or meaningful updates. We’ve been playing the exact same game since subclassing launched, because all of their focus is on propping up Vengeance.

And whenever people ask on streams or forums what the true purpose of Vengeance is, not a single dev has come out and said what you’re highlighting in that post. Not once. All they ever talk about is showing off how Vengeance works, the new systems they’re adding for Vengeance, how much better it performs, or how much people supposedly like it. Never once do they address the actual question: are these tests to improve Vengeance… or are they to improve current Cyrodiil?

So if you can find anything — on the forums, or in their VODs — where they specifically say how this data is being used to improve Grey Host and not just this god-awful form of “PvP,” please let me know. Because until then, clinging to an outdated quote and pretending they answer the real question just makes it seem like you’re not really keeping up.

Vengeance test 2 announcement:

Note that the templatizing of characters is an experiment and does not necessarily mean that these changes will be made to the Alliance War in the future. By introducing templatized characters for this specific test, we can isolate the variables that impact performance, helping us plan future improvements.

They literally say that having these changes does not mean they're going to be made. The word necessarily just reads as a correction to the people doom-and-glooming about it.

And the devs expand on what they're testing on round 2:

Whether Vengeance is new to you or a familiar warzone, you’ll find it a little changed this time around. Among the adjustments we’ve made after our last test are new Skill Lines included in the character templates. In addition to your templatized Class skills, you can also slot versions of skills from all Weapon skill lines and the Assault and Support Skill lines that offer better performance in mass battles.

They say it bluntly; the new skills are for testing their performance in battle vs live.

Vengeance test 3 announcement:

The Vengeance campaign is open to all players level 10-50 and introduces a special ruleset to the Alliance War, templatizing player builds to help improve game stability and performance.

Note that the templatizing of characters is an experiment and does not necessarily mean that these changes will be made to the Alliance War in the future. By introducing templatized characters for this specific test, we can isolate the variables that impact performance, helping us plan future improvements.

Like c'mon, they said it in every announcement that it's a test for identifying performance issues. That's why they added some stuff back in the third one, the different procs, buffs, ultimates, etc.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee

Darethran wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

You’re quoting something from months ago, before the second tests even happened. At the start, yeah, everyone assumed Vengeance was just performance testing so ZOS could make meaningful changes to Cyrodiil without sacrificing what makes it good. Nobody’s arguing that.

But since then, ZOS’s own tone and direction have told a very different story. Look at the exact phrasing you’re parroting back: “does not necessarily mean”. That’s classic ZOS vagueness — deliberately leaving the door wide open. And what have we actually gotten since? Months of painfully slow “tests” that add basically nothing, a whole new perk system rolled out in test 4, and two patches in a row with zero balancing or meaningful updates. We’ve been playing the exact same game since subclassing launched, because all of their focus is on propping up Vengeance.

And whenever people ask on streams or forums what the true purpose of Vengeance is, not a single dev has come out and said what you’re highlighting in that post. Not once. All they ever talk about is showing off how Vengeance works, the new systems they’re adding for Vengeance, how much better it performs, or how much people supposedly like it. Never once do they address the actual question: are these tests to improve Vengeance… or are they to improve current Cyrodiil?

So if you can find anything — on the forums, or in their VODs — where they specifically say how this data is being used to improve Grey Host and not just this god-awful form of “PvP,” please let me know. Because until then, clinging to an outdated quote and pretending they answer the real question just makes it seem like you’re not really keeping up.

Vengeance test 2 announcement:

Note that the templatizing of characters is an experiment and does not necessarily mean that these changes will be made to the Alliance War in the future. By introducing templatized characters for this specific test, we can isolate the variables that impact performance, helping us plan future improvements.

They literally say that having these changes does not mean they're going to be made. The word necessarily just reads as a correction to the people doom-and-glooming about it.

And the devs expand on what they're testing on round 2:

Whether Vengeance is new to you or a familiar warzone, you’ll find it a little changed this time around. Among the adjustments we’ve made after our last test are new Skill Lines included in the character templates. In addition to your templatized Class skills, you can also slot versions of skills from all Weapon skill lines and the Assault and Support Skill lines that offer better performance in mass battles.

They say it bluntly; the new skills are for testing their performance in battle vs live.

Vengeance test 3 announcement:

The Vengeance campaign is open to all players level 10-50 and introduces a special ruleset to the Alliance War, templatizing player builds to help improve game stability and performance.

Note that the templatizing of characters is an experiment and does not necessarily mean that these changes will be made to the Alliance War in the future. By introducing templatized characters for this specific test, we can isolate the variables that impact performance, helping us plan future improvements.

Like c'mon, they said it in every announcement that it's a test for identifying performance issues. That's why they added some stuff back in the third one, the different procs, buffs, ultimates, etc.

Darethran wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

You’re quoting something from months ago, before the second tests even happened. At the start, yeah, everyone assumed Vengeance was just performance testing so ZOS could make meaningful changes to Cyrodiil without sacrificing what makes it good. Nobody’s arguing that.

But since then, ZOS’s own tone and direction have told a very different story. Look at the exact phrasing you’re parroting back: “does not necessarily mean”. That’s classic ZOS vagueness — deliberately leaving the door wide open. And what have we actually gotten since? Months of painfully slow “tests” that add basically nothing, a whole new perk system rolled out in test 4, and two patches in a row with zero balancing or meaningful updates. We’ve been playing the exact same game since subclassing launched, because all of their focus is on propping up Vengeance.

And whenever people ask on streams or forums what the true purpose of Vengeance is, not a single dev has come out and said what you’re highlighting in that post. Not once. All they ever talk about is showing off how Vengeance works, the new systems they’re adding for Vengeance, how much better it performs, or how much people supposedly like it. Never once do they address the actual question: are these tests to improve Vengeance… or are they to improve current Cyrodiil?

So if you can find anything — on the forums, or in their VODs — where they specifically say how this data is being used to improve Grey Host and not just this god-awful form of “PvP,” please let me know. Because until then, clinging to an outdated quote and pretending they answer the real question just makes it seem like you’re not really keeping up.

Vengeance test 2 announcement:

Note that the templatizing of characters is an experiment and does not necessarily mean that these changes will be made to the Alliance War in the future. By introducing templatized characters for this specific test, we can isolate the variables that impact performance, helping us plan future improvements.

They literally say that having these changes does not mean they're going to be made. The word necessarily just reads as a correction to the people doom-and-glooming about it.

And the devs expand on what they're testing on round 2:

Whether Vengeance is new to you or a familiar warzone, you’ll find it a little changed this time around. Among the adjustments we’ve made after our last test are new Skill Lines included in the character templates. In addition to your templatized Class skills, you can also slot versions of skills from all Weapon skill lines and the Assault and Support Skill lines that offer better performance in mass battles.

They say it bluntly; the new skills are for testing their performance in battle vs live.

Vengeance test 3 announcement:

The Vengeance campaign is open to all players level 10-50 and introduces a special ruleset to the Alliance War, templatizing player builds to help improve game stability and performance.

Note that the templatizing of characters is an experiment and does not necessarily mean that these changes will be made to the Alliance War in the future. By introducing templatized characters for this specific test, we can isolate the variables that impact performance, helping us plan future improvements.

Like c'mon, they said it in every announcement that it's a test for identifying performance issues. That's why they added some stuff back in the third one, the different procs, buffs, ultimates, etc.

Yes, there was a Test 3 announcement — and it’s the same templated news they’ve been putting out since the very first test. Copy-pasting that over and over doesn’t change anything.

The point remains: in forums or VODs, no dev has ever given a real answer to what I’ve asked. You’re just reiterating the same lines we’ve all seen already. Please actually find me someone — on the forums or in a VOD — where they specifically state that these are tests to make adjustments to Grey Host and the current state of PvP, and not to replace them with this new watered-down version of Cyrodiil.

LPapirius

Vengeance is the bug. Please stop putting us through this nonsense.

NEVER make vengeance the only option again. We might not recover the PvP population after this forced vengeance as it is.

LPapirius

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Darethran wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

No, that’s not the case. Live Cyrodiil is nothing close to what Vengeance offers in terms of combat or gameplay. When you strip out more than 90% of the systems, the game becomes almost unrecognizable.

The real problem is that ZOS keeps dodging the community’s concerns about Vengeance becoming a permanent mode, while refusing to be clear about its actual purpose. Is this just a data-gathering test to make meaningful but limited changes to live Cyrodiil, or are they trying to build a brand-new gamemode from the ground up that no one ever asked for? Until they answer that, pretending Vengeance is “literally” for fixing live just doesn’t hold up.

They have explicitly said it's to identify the performance impact of different mechanics and effects. Removing them all is what allowed performance to be much higher despite 3x the population. Vengeance has had a much bigger experience with much more activity than possible on live.

Did you even read the announcements? They explicitly said it.

The Vengeance campaign is open to all players level 10-50 and introduces a special ruleset to the Alliance War, templatizing player builds to help improve stability.

All players have normalized stats regardless of level
Each Class has a modified set of abilities and items
While in Vengeance, you cannot access your bank, vendors, or crafting nodes
Only Experience Points, Alliance Points, gold, and Champion Points are retained upon leaving the campaign, and no items can be taken out
The Champion System is disabled in this campaign
All quests are disabled in this campaign

Note that the templatizing of characters is an experiment and does not necessarily mean that these changes will be made to the Alliance War in the future. By introducing templatized characters for this specific test, we can isolate the variables that impact performance, helping us plan future improvements.

Either the people complaining about Vengeance can't read, or they're disingenuous and actively harming the PvP in this game.

You’re quoting something from months ago, before the second tests even happened. At the start, yeah, everyone assumed Vengeance was just performance testing so ZOS could make meaningful changes to Cyrodiil without sacrificing what makes it good. Nobody’s arguing that.

But since then, ZOS’s own tone and direction have told a very different story. Look at the exact phrasing you’re parroting back: “does not necessarily mean”. That’s classic ZOS vagueness — deliberately leaving the door wide open. And what have we actually gotten since? Months of painfully slow “tests” that add basically nothing, a whole new perk system rolled out in test 4, and two patches in a row with zero balancing or meaningful updates. We’ve been playing the exact same game since subclassing launched, because all of their focus is on propping up Vengeance.

And whenever people ask on streams or forums what the true purpose of Vengeance is, not a single dev has come out and said what you’re highlighting in that post. Not once. All they ever talk about is showing off how Vengeance works, the new systems they’re adding for Vengeance, how much better it performs, or how much people supposedly like it. Never once do they address the actual question: are these tests to improve Vengeance… or are they to improve current Cyrodiil?

So if you can find anything — on the forums, or in their VODs — where they specifically say how this data is being used to improve Grey Host and not just this god-awful form of “PvP,” please let me know. Because until then, clinging to an outdated quote and pretending they answer the real question just makes it seem like you’re not really keeping up.

Very well said.

MincMincMinc

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Darethran wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

No, that’s not the case. Live Cyrodiil is nothing close to what Vengeance offers in terms of combat or gameplay. When you strip out more than 90% of the systems, the game becomes almost unrecognizable.

The real problem is that ZOS keeps dodging the community’s concerns about Vengeance becoming a permanent mode, while refusing to be clear about its actual purpose. Is this just a data-gathering test to make meaningful but limited changes to live Cyrodiil, or are they trying to build a brand-new gamemode from the ground up that no one ever asked for? Until they answer that, pretending Vengeance is “literally” for fixing live just doesn’t hold up.

They have explicitly said it's to identify the performance impact of different mechanics and effects. Removing them all is what allowed performance to be much higher despite 3x the population. Vengeance has had a much bigger experience with much more activity than possible on live.

Did you even read the announcements? They explicitly said it.

The Vengeance campaign is open to all players level 10-50 and introduces a special ruleset to the Alliance War, templatizing player builds to help improve stability.

All players have normalized stats regardless of level
Each Class has a modified set of abilities and items
While in Vengeance, you cannot access your bank, vendors, or crafting nodes
Only Experience Points, Alliance Points, gold, and Champion Points are retained upon leaving the campaign, and no items can be taken out
The Champion System is disabled in this campaign
All quests are disabled in this campaign

Note that the templatizing of characters is an experiment and does not necessarily mean that these changes will be made to the Alliance War in the future. By introducing templatized characters for this specific test, we can isolate the variables that impact performance, helping us plan future improvements.

Either the people complaining about Vengeance can't read, or they're disingenuous and actively harming the PvP in this game.

You’re quoting something from months ago, before the second tests even happened. At the start, yeah, everyone assumed Vengeance was just performance testing so ZOS could make meaningful changes to Cyrodiil without sacrificing what makes it good. Nobody’s arguing that.

But since then, ZOS’s own tone and direction have told a very different story. Look at the exact phrasing you’re parroting back: “does not necessarily mean”. That’s classic ZOS vagueness — deliberately leaving the door wide open. And what have we actually gotten since? Months of painfully slow “tests” that add basically nothing, a whole new perk system rolled out in test 4, and two patches in a row with zero balancing or meaningful updates. We’ve been playing the exact same game since subclassing launched, because all of their focus is on propping up Vengeance.

And whenever people ask on streams or forums what the true purpose of Vengeance is, not a single dev has come out and said what you’re highlighting in that post. Not once. All they ever talk about is showing off how Vengeance works, the new systems they’re adding for Vengeance, how much better it performs, or how much people supposedly like it. Never once do they address the actual question: are these tests to improve Vengeance… or are they to improve current Cyrodiil?

So if you can find anything — on the forums, or in their VODs — where they specifically say how this data is being used to improve Grey Host and not just this god-awful form of “PvP,” please let me know. Because until then, clinging to an outdated quote and pretending they answer the real question just makes it seem like you’re not really keeping up.

Since the first test, there has been plenty of people freaking out about a template pvp. The classic zos vagueness is how literally any company operates, unless the top brass knows for certain they are not going to allow the managers to speak in absolutes. We literally will not get any hard statements until a decision was made. Yes its painful, been this way for a decade now. Pretty much every vod they have clarified that it is still just a test, but again they have not talked in absolutes yet on the path or goals so the hysteria is only going to get worse. Im honestly surprised people are not freaking out more about the loadout and perks. Like I pointed out in my PTS thread, why did zos even think of this system.....they can make the flat stat change look like ANYTHING. Zos could have made the loadout and perk system literally look like item sets being chosen or mundus or cp. Even if the hysteria was 100% true and zos was replacing pvp, why not design it in a simple to understand way that relates to the rest of the game instead of this new potentially confusing system for new players? LINK

Rewatch the most recent PTS vod where wheeler goes over the veng4 perk and loadout system. Wheeler brings up that they launched subclassing and have been working on a skill system rework we will see next patch. IMO there were a ton of low hanging fruit with subclassing they could have addressed already. Subclassing was such a wild swing that you have to wait to collect data because it's basically a new game where people can spin off into one track metas just because the game is in upheaval. Like in pvp we saw plenty of the "pelican" builds where people were running aedric......until it took a few weeks for everyone to realize jabs is a terrible skill now. Now we are on to the Assassin+Animal+storm meta to abuse the crit damage vs crit resist issue. In some time we may see other skill lines with more complicated damage start to come forward, like for instance the warden winter skill line actually has a lot of hidden damage with northern18% and easy chilled brittle procs. Right now people are just flocking to the eye candy skill lines because they never had access to deep fissure, merciless bow, or streak before.

In that vod Wheeler specifically says that the upcoming skill passes are hard because they are having to work around subclassing with PvE and PvP in mind. So at the very least we have the next half year to a year where live pvp skills are planned to stick around. How big will this skill pass be is the question. Will we see any remnants of vengeance findings implemented in it to cut down on bloat?

Veng5 was also talked about with the proposed aoe cap changes to favor damage output vs healing. IMO when they start getting into these rule change tests it would be better if they had split live pve and pvp skills so they could do back to back rule change tests on live after doing them in vengeance. This way you could at least work your way from both sides of the problem towards a goldilocks point.

minnowfaun

Siege shield was counting down from 3 seconds as if it were a 3 second skill. Sometimes it was 10 seconds. The visual siege shield usually disappeared before 10 seconds.

Caltrops seemed useless. It didn't even last for 3 seconds, though I'm not entirely sure what is was supposed to do or look like.