This is how games die

Thumbless_Bot

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Fun fact: This isn't wow. Assuming what you assert is even true. Not sure about that.

It's an MMORPG with a playerbase, classes, and regular content drops, where everyone playing it has a different idea of what the game should look like - just like ESO.

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Vocal minority? Fun fact: It's just a statement that isn't supported by anything. You have no idea what percentage of people are not happy. Also, Trying to frame an argument around a fallacy is pretty sad. You can figure out what fallacy on your own.

Latest steam reviews paint a positive picture. I don't base statements on fallacies.

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Fun fact: I have no idea what your last paragraph even means.

Yeah, I know. It's part of the problem.

Not wow.

You do, and you did.

Glad you acknowledge it.

Dimorphos

People spoke the same thing about WOW every year for over 10 years or so, but the game kept on going. Yes, there were bad times and active sub numbers were low, but far from being a dead game. And it is still going strong.

Same thing for IRL. People have been saying that the end times are upon us since the dawn of mankind, they were so sure that the world will end in 2000, or 2012.. but here we are.

Eso might be having a bit rough time now, many people are afraid of the changes like subclassing (I love it) but we are far from seeing it as dead game or dying one. Times change..

I think Eso could take a step towards esports and introduce dungeon+ or similar system with real ranking list competition. This would lure in new people to the game and offer competition against genre king. After subclassing they could just go all in with changes. My honest opinion..

SkaiFaith

I remember Rich and Matt both saying multiple times during interviews that they are ok with how ESO players interact with the game, admitting themselves that there are players that burn through new content the first 14 days of a new update and then never login until the next big update launch; adding that other players login for 3 months then skip 6 months and return for another 3 months, and others take even longer breaks before returning. Zos has always been ok with this, in their own words.
We've seen a lot of people leaving with U35 but also many of them have written on this forum they have returned months or years after.

Are there less players around? Yes. I know this very well, XBOX EU.
Is ESO dying today? No. Because if you say today that it is dying, then it is dying from 2014.
ESO is one of the most successful MMOs out there, period.

Now... Is the MMO genre losing ground? Is Microsoft scaring us with its management? Is AAA gaming as a whole in a bad position today?
Your answer to these will be more indicative of what's going on with ESO's low player count than any "unwelcomed feature" IMO.

Tyralbin

Tandor wrote: »

I wonder if the people who complain that the lack of combat changes these days shows that ZOS aren't listening are the same players who used to complain about the constant combat changes which resulted in ZOS listening and scaling back on the amount and frequency of combat changes?

Probably the same as those who complained overland was too hard then when One Tamriel was released complained it was too easy.

I'm looking forward to more difficult overland content.

Tyralbin

Just thought a bit more about this and lets look historically at how MMOs have fared.

There are MMOs out there still running that are 10 years older (or more) than ESO.

Some are still supported and others are in permanent maintenance mode.

IMO ESO will still be around for the foreseeable future due to it being the best advert for ESVI.

Even if Microsoft decide that ESO isn't a priority I think it will be around in some form or another. Maybe at some stage they will put it in maintenace mode.

But I cannot see them pulling the plug until ESVI is released and is successful.

Stamicka

Yea this is just going to contribute more to the demographic shift. At some point only the most casual of the casual players will play and they are very often exclusively solo players. Everyone else is being neglected and not listened to. The ultra casual audience is enough to keep ESO alive imo.

Even as of now though, there's not much of a reason to do multiplayer activities. PvP in its current state is not fun for almost anybody. It's very unbalanced and all PvP environments have very little quality PvP in them. As far as PvE goes, it's probably pretty hard to find a group for most things. Even if you do the gameplay is boring. Beam rotations are very slow and easy. Damage is so high that most content is a joke.

This has all been years and years in the making. They have so much stuff to fix, but less gets done each year. I'm still interested in what will happen with Vengeance, but otherwise I don't expect anything anymore.

Tandor

colossalvoids wrote: »

Honestly finding it quite comical checking ESO and Path of Exile 1 numbers today, one is recently released an update and an MMO which is meant to be played constantly whilst the other is an arpg with a months old league that people already jumped from into PoE 2 last update a week ago, still a dead arpg league having same exact numbers of players. Both games played primarily outside of steam.

I assume you're basing "the exact same numbers of players" on Steam charts. As you say that both games are played primarily outside of Steam, what are your "outside of Steam" numbers for both games, and the source of those numbers?

Tandor

Tyralbin wrote: »

Just thought a bit more about this and lets look historically at how MMOs have fared.

There are MMOs out there still running that are 10 years older (or more) than ESO.

Some are still supported and others are in permanent maintenance mode.

IMO ESO will still be around for the foreseeable future due to it being the best advert for ESVI.

Even if Microsoft decide that ESO isn't a priority I think it will be around in some form or another. Maybe at some stage they will put it in maintenace mode.

But I cannot see them pulling the plug until ESVI is released and is successful.

Past evidence suggests that if and when ESV1 is released and successful, that will lead to a new influx of players from that game into ESO. I also suspect that many ESO players will maintain their accounts and subscriptions to ESO while playing ESV1 at its launch.

colossalvoids

Tandor wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Honestly finding it quite comical checking ESO and Path of Exile 1 numbers today, one is recently released an update and an MMO which is meant to be played constantly whilst the other is an arpg with a months old league that people already jumped from into PoE 2 last update a week ago, still a dead arpg league having same exact numbers of players. Both games played primarily outside of steam.

I assume you're basing "the exact same numbers of players" on Steam charts. As you say that both games are played primarily outside of Steam, what are your "outside of Steam" numbers for both games, and the source of those numbers?

Absolutely, after all it's a thread that is based on steam charts as a part of a whole, having most obviously observable statics out there for most games. You are free to think that it's not a representative sample of overall population, there's nothing wrong with it.

Tandor

colossalvoids wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Honestly finding it quite comical checking ESO and Path of Exile 1 numbers today, one is recently released an update and an MMO which is meant to be played constantly whilst the other is an arpg with a months old league that people already jumped from into PoE 2 last update a week ago, still a dead arpg league having same exact numbers of players. Both games played primarily outside of steam.

I assume you're basing "the exact same numbers of players" on Steam charts. As you say that both games are played primarily outside of Steam, what are your "outside of Steam" numbers for both games, and the source of those numbers?

Absolutely, after all it's a thread that is based on steam charts as a part of a whole, having most obviously observable statics out there for most games. You are free to think that it's not a representative sample of overall population, there's nothing wrong with it.

I never suggested that, one way or the other, I simply pointed out that you were presumably basing your comments on Steam populations while stating that both games were primarily played outside of Steam, and therefore asking what your corresponding "out of Steam" figures were.

colossalvoids

Tandor wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Honestly finding it quite comical checking ESO and Path of Exile 1 numbers today, one is recently released an update and an MMO which is meant to be played constantly whilst the other is an arpg with a months old league that people already jumped from into PoE 2 last update a week ago, still a dead arpg league having same exact numbers of players. Both games played primarily outside of steam.

I assume you're basing "the exact same numbers of players" on Steam charts. As you say that both games are played primarily outside of Steam, what are your "outside of Steam" numbers for both games, and the source of those numbers?

Absolutely, after all it's a thread that is based on steam charts as a part of a whole, having most obviously observable statics out there for most games. You are free to think that it's not a representative sample of overall population, there's nothing wrong with it.

I never suggested that, one way or the other, I simply pointed out that you were presumably basing your comments on Steam populations while stating that both games were primarily played outside of Steam, and therefore asking what your corresponding "out of Steam" figures were.

Not sure what figures are you so desperate to get there as zenimax keeps it as one of their best kept secrets for various reasons, I'd speculate but that might get redacted. This "primarily out of steam" thing is more of a sign of caution as steam always getting dismissed as an unreliable source, because "we all play from the client" thing going on dedicated forums. Also it was a fact some six or so years ago, when someone on a dev team was asked on a stream (or irl event?), was a long time ago to remember who and where it was. Doubt it's still the case, but we don't have a better recent reference afaik. And if those figures aren't good we're never seeing them.

Versalium

I'm a new player since late May of this year. The first months of playing were amazing and I played A LOT. But since that Whitestrake’s Mayhem event, something died in me. I guess, it made me realize and actually see that this came actually is — an online MMO game. First and foremost. No way around it. That's the crushing reality. I'm not a fan of online games and especially MMOs. I'm a single player TES fan and I've been playing ESO like it's a single player game mixed with some online components.

The illusion was strong until Whitestrake’s Mayhem event. It broke the illusion for me. Traumatized me, even. Since then, I don't ever go to Cyrodiil and don't play battlegrounds anymore. I got really depressed about the game after that event. Fortunately, right after that ZOS dropped ESO plus trial and I was able to dive into new stories and zones. But the illusion was lost and the trauma was real. This is an online game. This is a MMO. No way around it. I'm grieving, no be honest. The game is basically already dead to me. I still have a lot of quests and zones to explore but it's doesn't feel the same way it felt in those first months. And I understand that what I want this game to be, what I want it to become with the future updates, is not what MMO fans want and not what ZOS wants. It will never be the game I want it to be. I will never see the things I want to see. So what are the perspectives for me? I don't see any.