Where are the Actual Patch Notes?

acastanza_ESO

Seriously, there are literally no meaningful changes in this week or last week. Despite pages and pages of feedback explaining to you in detail the things that are unbalanced, broken by subclassing, or performing poorly.

Since week 1, we've had minor walkbacks to some of the pants-on-head week one nerfs in week 2 and then literally nothing else.

Honestly, and this is a sincere question, what are the combat devs even doing?

If we hadn't forced you to walk back (some) (of the worst) week 1 changes in week 2 would we have even had patch notes this cycle at all?

madmufffin

You will get nothing and you will like it.

preevious

The fact that there is feedback does not mean that they'll respond to them let alone adress them.
I do believe they read every bit of feedback given here, but for the most part, feedback is mostly "buff me, nerf others".
They thus disregard it.

( *stealth* nerf beam, though *stealth*)

MincMincMinc

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Seriously, there are literally no meaningful changes in this week or last week. Despite pages and pages of feedback explaining to you in detail the things that are unbalanced, broken by subclassing, or performing poorly.

Since week 1, we've had minor walkbacks to some of the pants-on-head week one nerfs in week 2 and then literally nothing else.

Honestly, and this is a sincere question, what are the combat devs even doing?

If we hadn't forced you to walk back (some) (of the worst) week 1 changes in week 2 would we have even had patch notes this cycle at all?

They are literally re-writing the game from scratch with vengeance. At the very least 50% of the team is working on restructuring the whole game from the ground up in a performative way.

That being said, pushing out subclassing before the game was ready was not the best choice. For subclassing to work they need to do major skill reworking.....why would they completely change around all the skills in the game if they are waiting for vengeance results which will prove whether or not the skill system needs to be cleaned up?

React

It's really disappointing that they aren't focusing on buffing the weaker skill lines/passives up to bar with the meta ones. The system is already beginning to grow stale due to the lack of diversity at the top end, where the meta 5-6 skill lines are just drastically stronger than everything else.

To me, it just seems like a huge mistake to not immediately try to improve this system. Now at best it'll be 6 months from introduction before anything of significance is changed, and many people are going to give up on it by then. The PVP population on PC NA has already been the lowest I've ever seen it in history, and I'm not exaggerating. Can't see many people sticking around during U47 with zero positive changes on the horizon.

Eskibidus

So many "useless" animation fixes/adjustments, but nothing concrete.
The last patch notes iteration indicates a lack of understanding of the whole state of the combat and balancing in the game.

acastanza_ESO

They are literally re-writing the game from scratch with vengeance.

You seriously believe this? We saw last tiny amount of vengeance skills that are upcoming. Zero reason to believe there is anything else there until the next cycle. Wild.

MincMincMinc

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

They are literally re-writing the game from scratch with vengeance.

You seriously believe this? We saw last tiny amount of vengeance skills that are upcoming. Zero reason to believe there is anything else there until the next cycle. Wild.

Should I believe the whole combat team is on vacation or something? I can only base my info off of streams and patch notes. There were next to no changes for skill line balance, but there were for vengeanc. So the only conclusion to draw is that they are focusing on that.

You can also back that up with the notion that it makes no sense to try and balance live skills when we are expecting that it wont matter depending on the vengeance results.

React

MincMincMinc wrote: »

They are literally re-writing the game from scratch with vengeance. At the very least 50% of the team is working on restructuring the whole game from the ground up in a performative way.

If 50% of the team is working on that, why are we seeing just minuscule changes to the system every 3-6 months? They aren't even clear about what the end goal is. They keep stating that the system is purely for performance testing, and won't clarify whether they intend to actually implement it as a replacement for cyrodiil or if they are just going to apply what they learned to the current live system.

Lets not forget that in 2021/2022, zenimax told us they were rewriting the entire base code of the game. They said that it would fix performance, and allow them to make changes to the game without breaking things or causing more lag. They said that because of how many resources they were devoting to this project, there would be zero further development on PVP while the work was underway.

Then after nearly two years of "work" on this project, they announced they'd made no tangible progress and had no plans for continuing it.

Seeing the current pace for vengeance development and the lack of clarity around the future of the project or it's intended goals, coupled with knowing the history of similar tests going back 8 years or so, it's hard to believe that vengeance is anything other than more of the same.

Zyaneth_Bal

u47 is incredibly disappointing, there is literally not a single thing to look forward to and barely any changes at all despite the amount of work that needs to be done and the loads of feedback provided. Especially considering the fact that we only get several updates per year and eso doesn't get any changes in-between like any other game.

randconfig

Still no update on Necromancer's bugged summons, and no communication from the devs. I've blown up every thread on the forums about it, and the last time they told us anything was one time 2 months ago, where they did a hotfix to put pet limit to 10 instead of 5, and that was only after they ignored all Necromancers complaining on the PTS months before the patch hit live in June. And even though they increased the limit, the summons still fail to summon in U46, and even though U47 PTS has patched a supposed bug with the corpse generated by Flame Skull preventing summons, the summons still fail to summon on PTS.

MincMincMinc

React wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

They are literally re-writing the game from scratch with vengeance. At the very least 50% of the team is working on restructuring the whole game from the ground up in a performative way.

If 50% of the team is working on that, why are we seeing just minuscule changes to the system every 3-6 months? They aren't even clear about what the end goal is. They keep stating that the system is purely for performance testing, and won't clarify whether they intend to actually implement it as a replacement for cyrodiil or if they are just going to apply what they learned to the current live system.

Lets not forget that in 2021/2022, zenimax told us they were rewriting the entire base code of the game. They said that it would fix performance, and allow them to make changes to the game without breaking things or causing more lag. They said that because of how many resources they were devoting to this project, there would be zero further development on PVP while the work was underway.

Then after nearly two years of "work" on this project, they announced they'd made no tangible progress and had no plans for continuing it.

Seeing the current pace for vengeance development and the lack of clarity around the future of the project or it's intended goals, coupled with knowing the history of similar tests going back 8 years or so, it's hard to believe that vengeance is anything other than more of the same.

Well they are not writing out all of the background changes, you shouldn't expect that. We only see the surface changes taking place. Back in those years they did rewrite a large portion of background code if you did a lot of pts testing. There were plenty of changes to how cast times were handled, desync issues, death flags. Again we can't see everything nor do they tell us. If they knew one thing was ever going to fix performance they were lying through their teeth or mispoke. Anyone with any sort of engineering or basic problem solving skills knows that this is a very multifaceted issue.

People somehow want zos to immediately add sets and other build choices when those are like 5+ tests out. Chances are we still have many "boring" or "empty" changes for upcoming tests.

• Flush out skill lines. Testing background things like achievements, addons, etc
• Flush out skill lines. Testing Aoe cap increase on dmg, lower aoe cap on heals
• Flush out skill lines. Test effect stacking limits and prevent heal/buff outside of group
• Add mundus and armor layer(no sets) (skills do not change tooltip)
• Add armor and jewlery enchants
• Add Weapon enchants
• Add skill scaling based on DMG/MAX
• .......etc. we can go on or split up tests more before we get close to having morphs and set bonuses.

Could they be more transparent, yeah, plenty to be angry with that. Honestly I thought they were going to completely give up after the first vengeance test.

acastanza_ESO

MincMincMinc wrote: »

React wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

They are literally re-writing the game from scratch with vengeance. At the very least 50% of the team is working on restructuring the whole game from the ground up in a performative way.

If 50% of the team is working on that, why are we seeing just minuscule changes to the system every 3-6 months? They aren't even clear about what the end goal is. They keep stating that the system is purely for performance testing, and won't clarify whether they intend to actually implement it as a replacement for cyrodiil or if they are just going to apply what they learned to the current live system.

Lets not forget that in 2021/2022, zenimax told us they were rewriting the entire base code of the game. They said that it would fix performance, and allow them to make changes to the game without breaking things or causing more lag. They said that because of how many resources they were devoting to this project, there would be zero further development on PVP while the work was underway.

Then after nearly two years of "work" on this project, they announced they'd made no tangible progress and had no plans for continuing it.

Seeing the current pace for vengeance development and the lack of clarity around the future of the project or it's intended goals, coupled with knowing the history of similar tests going back 8 years or so, it's hard to believe that vengeance is anything other than more of the same.

Well they are not writing out all of the background changes, you shouldn't expect that. We only see the surface changes taking place. Back in those years they did rewrite a large portion of background code if you did a lot of pts testing. There were plenty of changes to how cast times were handled, desync issues, death flags. Again we can't see everything nor do they tell us. If they knew one thing was ever going to fix performance they were lying through their teeth or mispoke. Anyone with any sort of engineering or basic problem solving skills knows that this is a very multifaceted issue.

People somehow want zos to immediately add sets and other build choices when those are like 5+ tests out. Chances are we still have many "boring" or "empty" changes for upcoming tests.

• Flush out skill lines. Testing background things like achievements, addons, etc
• Flush out skill lines. Testing Aoe cap increase on dmg, lower aoe cap on heals
• Flush out skill lines. Test effect stacking limits and prevent heal/buff outside of group
• Add mundus and armor layer(no sets) (skills do not change tooltip)
• Add armor and jewlery enchants
• Add Weapon enchants
• Add skill scaling based on DMG/MAX
• .......etc. we can go on or split up tests more before we get close to having morphs and set bonuses.

Could they be more transparent, yeah, plenty to be angry with that. Honestly I thought they were going to completely give up after the first vengeance test.

You can not assume they are working on any of those things if they will not communicate about them. ZOS has done absolutely nothing to deserve this level of deference and blind faith. If anything, assuming they're all on vacation is the more reasonable assumption basing on the things we've seen. If they are working on substantial back end changes (doubt), then they have a responsibility to tell us that that is why the things that are actively making the game worse are not showing meaningful progress.

MincMincMinc

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

React wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

They are literally re-writing the game from scratch with vengeance. At the very least 50% of the team is working on restructuring the whole game from the ground up in a performative way.

If 50% of the team is working on that, why are we seeing just minuscule changes to the system every 3-6 months? They aren't even clear about what the end goal is. They keep stating that the system is purely for performance testing, and won't clarify whether they intend to actually implement it as a replacement for cyrodiil or if they are just going to apply what they learned to the current live system.

Lets not forget that in 2021/2022, zenimax told us they were rewriting the entire base code of the game. They said that it would fix performance, and allow them to make changes to the game without breaking things or causing more lag. They said that because of how many resources they were devoting to this project, there would be zero further development on PVP while the work was underway.

Then after nearly two years of "work" on this project, they announced they'd made no tangible progress and had no plans for continuing it.

Seeing the current pace for vengeance development and the lack of clarity around the future of the project or it's intended goals, coupled with knowing the history of similar tests going back 8 years or so, it's hard to believe that vengeance is anything other than more of the same.

Well they are not writing out all of the background changes, you shouldn't expect that. We only see the surface changes taking place. Back in those years they did rewrite a large portion of background code if you did a lot of pts testing. There were plenty of changes to how cast times were handled, desync issues, death flags. Again we can't see everything nor do they tell us. If they knew one thing was ever going to fix performance they were lying through their teeth or mispoke. Anyone with any sort of engineering or basic problem solving skills knows that this is a very multifaceted issue.

People somehow want zos to immediately add sets and other build choices when those are like 5+ tests out. Chances are we still have many "boring" or "empty" changes for upcoming tests.

• Flush out skill lines. Testing background things like achievements, addons, etc
• Flush out skill lines. Testing Aoe cap increase on dmg, lower aoe cap on heals
• Flush out skill lines. Test effect stacking limits and prevent heal/buff outside of group
• Add mundus and armor layer(no sets) (skills do not change tooltip)
• Add armor and jewlery enchants
• Add Weapon enchants
• Add skill scaling based on DMG/MAX
• .......etc. we can go on or split up tests more before we get close to having morphs and set bonuses.

Could they be more transparent, yeah, plenty to be angry with that. Honestly I thought they were going to completely give up after the first vengeance test.

You can not assume they are working on any of those things if they will not communicate about them. ZOS has done absolutely nothing to deserve this level of deference and blind faith. If anything, assuming they're all on vacation is the more reasonable assumption basing on the things we've seen. If they are working on substantial back end changes (doubt), then they have a responsibility to tell us that that is why the things that are actively making the game worse are not showing meaningful progress.

Well its not blind, back then you could go test the 100% mit bugs and exploits happening while they changed how the server handles cast timed skills. They had also said this vengeance will still be doing background achievement type layers....so idk what more you want. I am just not going to get upset because I can't read the source code daily.

In no way was I defending the poor communication zos currently has with the playerbase. With so many combat centric issues it would be more straight forward if wheeler posted on the forums the main issues with combat and how they are working on them. >> Hey we see too much crit damage being prevalent......Assassination is to overloaded and damage skill lines have stacking unique large crit damage passives.<<

Also they do not have a responsibility to do anything really.

acastanza_ESO

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Also they do not have a responsibility to do anything really.

Wild thing to say for a live service game.

tomofhyrule

It does seem like U47 is suspiciously light on changes, particularly considering the nuclear bomb they dropped on balance in U46. I'm hoping that they're trying to test and fix things and that U48 will have a lot more balancing changes, but... well even I know that's copium and the odd patches are the ones that have more combat changes since the even ones have more features.

I think the real thing is that the combat team is still off balance themselves since they didn't expect Subclassing to turn out the way it did, and now they're scrambling to try to fix it all... but it's a lot and that makes it hard to even find a place to start.

I am hopeful about the "How to you feel about U46" thread in General and the fact that we got the "Upcoming U47 changed based on feedback" threads though. After U46 was talking to a brick wall, it does feel like we are finally being heard (though a lot of these problems may not have been issues had we been heard before Subclassing came out). And it does feel good that the major U47 change of "let's get rid of all ult gen passives!" was reverted, even if that does mean that there's very little happening in U47 now.

I'm guessing U48 PTS will be on the 22nd or maybe 15th of September, so hopefully we'll see some changes there that will make Subclassing more of a "play the way you want!" instead of the "play the meta or be a meme" that we have now.

silky_soft

I don't get it either. Surely in their spreadsheets they can see what skills have been selected and what hasn't.

Just reduce cost of unused skills by 10% or bump their damage 10% or their stats 10% or their duration by a couple of seconds.

They could even do the same for unused sets.

madmufffin

silky_soft wrote: »

I don't get it either. Surely in their spreadsheets they can see what skills have been selected and what hasn't.

Just reduce cost of unused skills by 10% or bump their damage 10% or their stats 10% or their duration by a couple of seconds.

They could even do the same for unused sets.

There's literally charts made by people for PVE that very clearly show the discrepency of usage based on logs. It's sickening and they did literally nothing to raise the floor for viability. If it were for just dps, I'm sure the pick rate would be even more sickeningly unbalanced. I'm sure PVP has similar data as well even if it's harder to come by.

ZhuJiuyin

madmufffin wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

I don't get it either. Surely in their spreadsheets they can see what skills have been selected and what hasn't.

Just reduce cost of unused skills by 10% or bump their damage 10% or their stats 10% or their duration by a couple of seconds.

They could even do the same for unused sets.

There's literally charts made by people for PVE that very clearly show the discrepency of usage based on logs. It's sickening and they did literally nothing to raise the floor for viability. If it were for just dps, I'm sure the pick rate would be even more sickeningly unbalanced. I'm sure PVP has similar data as well even if it's harder to come by.

The most interesting thing about this chart is that if we use half the usage rate of the top-ranked line as the qualifying criterion, that is, 4399 ÷ 2, then all skill lines except the second-ranked one will be eliminated.

If we use half the usage rate of the third-ranked line (since players must have three class skill lines), that is, 1778 ÷ 2, then Sorc and Warden will be the only two eliminated, as the usage rates of their three lines are less than half of the third-ranked one.

Hopefully, Sorc and Warden will receive more attention in U48, as the current log shows that these two classes are the weakest and least popular in PvE.

YandereGirlfriend

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

I don't get it either. Surely in their spreadsheets they can see what skills have been selected and what hasn't.

Just reduce cost of unused skills by 10% or bump their damage 10% or their stats 10% or their duration by a couple of seconds.

They could even do the same for unused sets.

There's literally charts made by people for PVE that very clearly show the discrepency of usage based on logs. It's sickening and they did literally nothing to raise the floor for viability. If it were for just dps, I'm sure the pick rate would be even more sickeningly unbalanced. I'm sure PVP has similar data as well even if it's harder to come by.

The most interesting thing about this chart is that if we use half the usage rate of the top-ranked line as the qualifying criterion, that is, 4399 ÷ 2, then all skill lines except the second-ranked one will be eliminated.

If we use half the usage rate of the third-ranked line (since players must have three class skill lines), that is, 1778 ÷ 2, then Sorc and Warden will be the only two eliminated, as the usage rates of their three lines are less than half of the third-ranked one.

And with Sorc the only reason that Summoning is being used is to be a buff-bot for the Arc-Assass-Plar DDs rather than for any other redeeming purpose.

madmufffin

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

I don't get it either. Surely in their spreadsheets they can see what skills have been selected and what hasn't.

Just reduce cost of unused skills by 10% or bump their damage 10% or their stats 10% or their duration by a couple of seconds.

They could even do the same for unused sets.

There's literally charts made by people for PVE that very clearly show the discrepency of usage based on logs. It's sickening and they did literally nothing to raise the floor for viability. If it were for just dps, I'm sure the pick rate would be even more sickeningly unbalanced. I'm sure PVP has similar data as well even if it's harder to come by.

The most interesting thing about this chart is that if we use half the usage rate of the top-ranked line as the qualifying criterion, that is, 4399 ÷ 2, then all skill lines except the second-ranked one will be eliminated.

If we use half the usage rate of the third-ranked line (since players must have three class skill lines), that is, 1778 ÷ 2, then Sorc and Warden will be the only two eliminated, as the usage rates of their three lines are less than half of the third-ranked one.

And with Sorc the only reason that Summoning is being used is to be a buff-bot for the Arc-Assass-Plar DDs rather than for any other redeeming purpose.

If Atro didn't provide a unique damage buff, that skill line would never be touched lol

BasP

madmufffin wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

I don't get it either. Surely in their spreadsheets they can see what skills have been selected and what hasn't.

Just reduce cost of unused skills by 10% or bump their damage 10% or their stats 10% or their duration by a couple of seconds.

They could even do the same for unused sets.

If it were for just dps, I'm sure the pick rate would be even more sickeningly unbalanced.

That's the DD variant. As a Warden main, it's sad to see (but not surprising at all) that its skill lines combined were picked only 2.83% of the time.

But yeah, I really hoped to see more balance changes this patch. Subclassing gave us over 1,000 unique skill line combinations to play with, but right now it feels like only a small handful of them are actually viable compared to the others. Kinda defeats the purpose.

universal_wrath

BasP wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

I don't get it either. Surely in their spreadsheets they can see what skills have been selected and what hasn't.

Just reduce cost of unused skills by 10% or bump their damage 10% or their stats 10% or their duration by a couple of seconds.

They could even do the same for unused sets.

If it were for just dps, I'm sure the pick rate would be even more sickeningly unbalanced.

That's the DD variant. As a Warden main, it's sad to see (but not surprising at all) that its skill lines combined were picked only 2.83% of the time.

But yeah, I really hoped to see more balance changes this patch. Subclassing gave us over 1,000 unique skill line combinations to play with, but right now it feels like only a small handful of them are actually viable compared to the others. Kinda defeats the purpose.

It is not a DD varient, more like an ulti regen build designed specificaly to cast as much ult as possible to buff the group. If not for the passive and unique ultimate buff, nkbody would use this skil line.

xylena_lazarow

React wrote: »

It's really disappointing that they aren't focusing on buffing the weaker skill lines/passives up to bar with the meta ones.

It's like they're intentionally establishing 3-4 mandatory one-stop-shops for competitive play, then brutally reminding us in game that the other 17-18 skill lines are strictly for aesthetics or roleplay only. What was the point of all this?

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

React wrote: »

It's really disappointing that they aren't focusing on buffing the weaker skill lines/passives up to bar with the meta ones.

It's like they're intentionally establishing 3-4 mandatory one-stop-shops for competitive play, then brutally reminding us in game that the other 17-18 skill lines are strictly for aesthetics or roleplay only. What was the point of all this?

If you're not roleplaying as an Icemancer what are you even playing ESO for though

madmufffin

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

React wrote: »

It's really disappointing that they aren't focusing on buffing the weaker skill lines/passives up to bar with the meta ones.

It's like they're intentionally establishing 3-4 mandatory one-stop-shops for competitive play, then brutally reminding us in game that the other 17-18 skill lines are strictly for aesthetics or roleplay only. What was the point of all this?

If you're not roleplaying as an Icemancer what are you even playing ESO for though

Definitely not doing this as the ROJO healer in my PB core where I've been given build liberties or anything

xylena_lazarow

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

If you're not roleplaying as an Icemancer what are you even playing ESO for though

Had this from U46 pts. No it's not competitive, but the roleplay was on target and you can zerg with it!

kevkj

Don't worry, Steiner will bring all the changes needed in u47 and everything will be alright.

BasP

universal_wrath wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

I don't get it either. Surely in their spreadsheets they can see what skills have been selected and what hasn't.

Just reduce cost of unused skills by 10% or bump their damage 10% or their stats 10% or their duration by a couple of seconds.

They could even do the same for unused sets.

If it were for just dps, I'm sure the pick rate would be even more sickeningly unbalanced.

That's the DD variant. As a Warden main, it's sad to see (but not surprising at all) that its skill lines combined were picked only 2.83% of the time.

But yeah, I really hoped to see more balance changes this patch. Subclassing gave us over 1,000 unique skill line combinations to play with, but right now it feels like only a small handful of them are actually viable compared to the others. Kinda defeats the purpose.

It is not a DD varient, more like an ulti regen build designed specificaly to cast as much ult as possible to buff the group. If not for the passive and unique ultimate buff, nkbody would use this skil line.

... what build are you talking about? The graph just shows the number of times each skill line was picked in logs by damage dealers (and almost none of the most picked skill lines even have a passive that increases Ultimate generation).

universal_wrath

BasP wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

I don't get it either. Surely in their spreadsheets they can see what skills have been selected and what hasn't.

Just reduce cost of unused skills by 10% or bump their damage 10% or their stats 10% or their duration by a couple of seconds.

They could even do the same for unused sets.

If it were for just dps, I'm sure the pick rate would be even more sickeningly unbalanced.

That's the DD variant. As a Warden main, it's sad to see (but not surprising at all) that its skill lines combined were picked only 2.83% of the time.

But yeah, I really hoped to see more balance changes this patch. Subclassing gave us over 1,000 unique skill line combinations to play with, but right now it feels like only a small handful of them are actually viable compared to the others. Kinda defeats the purpose.

It is not a DD varient, more like an ulti regen build designed specificaly to cast as much ult as possible to buff the group. If not for the passive and unique ultimate buff, nkbody would use this skil line.

... what build are you talking about? The graph just shows the number of times each skill line was picked in logs by damage dealers (and almost none of the most picked skill lines even have a passive that increases Ultimate generation).

Daedric summoning power stone passives reduce ultimate cost by 15% which is why it is sometimes subclassed into ulti gen builds to use as much storm atronach as possive for the major berserk buff that is paired up with other ulti related sets like master architec.