Herald of the Tome - Remove Fatecarver

NoSoup · August 13

Rkindaleft wrote: »

I don't agree with removing the skill completely, but I don't know why they don't just make it comparable to other spammables, that should've happened a long time ago. When you compare it to Jabs, or Whip, Fatecarver fundamentally ignores the design set for other spammable skills.

1) It's the easiest spammable to use in the whole game and compared to other classes/subclassed builds is much lower APM (outside of HA)
2) One morph gives you a 10k+ shield, meaning you can be lazy and eat things that would typically kill a DPS who isn't using it
3) Skill is fully ranged
4) 100% cleave damage to SIX targets
5) Extremely high ST damage for a spammable skill

This isn't going to go down well in these forums, but while I think accessibility options should be viable and even powerful, they should never be meta because it makes "skill based" gameplay redundant. Every time we talk about Fatecarver we're basically having the same arguments people made 2.5 years ago when Oakensoul Sorc was like 80% of the DPS you saw in trials (if you paid attention to logs this was true).

Fatecarver has been nerfed like 3 times and it's still overpowered, that should tell you plenty about how overtuned it was/is (although this has to do in part to Subclassing).

Fatecarver at minimum needs the Jabs treatment, you can keep it's ST damage potential if you must but it shouldn't provide 100% cleave damage to all targets (like other spammables) or you can keep it's 100% cleave damage potential but adjust the damage down to make it a bit closer to other AoE spammables.

In regards to fatecarver I think "spamable" is being over used. To say its spamable would suggest you can fire the skill as soon as you've used it to achieve the same damage output. That's just not going to happen in the next patch with the nerf to banner bearer, using the skill immediately after it ends, at best you'll have 1 crux. You're either going to have to rely on the crux creating armour skill and hope to take damage, which means only 1x subclass. Or, fire off two additional skills before being able to fire fatecarver again at full damage. Hardly a spamable.

A soft nerf that I believe would be more appropriate than any other solutions would be to increase max crux to 4 and have the same full damage potential at 4 crux instead of 3.

MJallday · August 13

preevious wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

another nerf beam thread. yay!

honestly. please leave the beam alone. its fun, a signficant amount of people love it and have adapted to it

remove the beam, you remove joy from the game. and this game is not in a place where it can afford to remove joy from the game right now IMO

you would be better off buffing other skills to compensate, not killing fun.

people don't use it because it's fun. You included.
People use it because it is overpowered.

If it is nerfed, it'll still be equally as fun to use, but magically, people will stop using it.
So, let's not remove fatecraver, that's too much. Let's nerf it to put it on par with everything else.

And no, we can't really buff everything else, because damn .. power creep is already an issue.

Im afraid your're wrong. I use it for fun. Because i want to enjoy the game. its not actually that overpowered. its just situational. in trashpacks (and certainly pvp) there are better skills.

you can buff other skills without a problem - because in your words - power creep is already there - - and guess what, you'd have more variation of builds .

not everyone does 140k damage. some people barely scratch 40k . remember that before your call for nerfs.

by the way, the constant nerfing of this game is what is keeping people away. people need to be careful what they wish for - too many people leave.. noone will be left.

Daoin · August 13

all that aside, i know there is a great end game community but not every single eso player wants to join it and i think if 90% of the players left in eso sent them thier combat reports and raid reports to help them get a grasp on the reality of playing eso and not wanting to join an end game group for raids for a few hours a week at raid times maybe all this tweaking and nerfing buffing circle could just all stop one day, honestly its kind of very annoying for people that dont care about the numbers. to be honest nerf the heck out out of arcanist and buff back heck up HA builds i dont care just leave it alone after that for once because even now the fact that this game is mmo and looking at the actual mmo experience it is bordering on ridiculous already

quick morning log in today 08/13/2025: log in at morning for dlc pledge graven deep. Result: a team member wants to kick the 800cp Sorc build at boss one. Action taken: i leave group rather than hit accept before boss 1 is dead or even jumped off its perch Concusion: total waste of my time logging in. MMO group discussions about it: none

only one question remains, should i log into maybe tank or damage for worse morning reults, and although its been like for coountless years can i still go on wasting my mornings trying to get some decent mmo out of an mmo

please i just want someone to understand that for me personally for years all these tweaks changes and things like that onle ever served to make the game more horrible to play. the game needs stability not constant change. why does does someone somewhere just wanting to enjoy eso have to always be on the negative end of any of these great tweaks. and because if its not actual player on player pressure with consequenses in (even totally random) groups to try and force people to play a certain way then my name is harry and it must be the builds fault
but in reality its a player saying they dont want you in the group with a kick rather than the usual loud larger than life typing of insults
wh knows maybe even laughing at this post trying to get my own personal view across about stuff that will neven be taken into account yet another poor player maybe considering leaving the game (i hope not) well i wasted my time writing this stuff
leave fatecarver alone, buff HA builds for all the mentally right reasons

Second attempt at normal vet pledge dlc group: see if logging to arcanist can make a difference to a group i am now purposely going to leave if its a high cp group that wont need extra dungeon experience i have (update, group left before even leaving the starting line). i need to say no more in writing because unless we get a fake tank i know it will help (chances of fake tank 50/50) this is the daily experience for me in eso from random vet encounters with a maybe 10% chance of winding up in an enjoyable and fun mentally stable group

last step of the morning(later): log into tank where hopefully rejecting kick requests will help more but wont be as enjoyable for the group on the whole that i could otherwise have made it with my healer

conclusion: totally gone off the idea of tanking or playing eso this morning with mmo community that i am encountering wether thier names are familiar or not to me in the randoms groups but if randoms had treated me the way its just a usual thing to see in eso today in my first years of eso no way i would be around either today. sometimes its hard to believe its not things mixed up with trolling apparantly as good way for track covering too but update: 3rd attempt at group failed this time because someone automatilly not know mechanic before boss one offering to kicker explanations along way to player holds no water asking how they gonna learn it then
any serious option left this morning except some solo overland of something ? without being 100% disapponted with todays 2025 eso ? not sure it can be done as usual, sorry to keep poining towards as usual but this had been daily play experience in eso at anytime of the day for a very long time now (before arcanist, before op HA before subclassing) in eso and at the very worse scenerio at least people know for randoms all they need do is log to thier arcansist even if just for randoms without chance of being trash chatted too even if most people refuse to do just that still no matter if fatecarver were as strong as a lightsaber and ultimately 'slight' nerfs here and there or total removal of fatecarver help nobody in the long run
it was even the games saving grace on some days before subclassing some of our dd's were less strong than other but unique in thier own way oof play but oh no we cant have some classes stronger dps than others (along with another 50% of the current playerbase cant have those either) way even back then but nobody in some circles has a problem jumping on the strongest class to score push then try to have it nerfed up if it made certain things more accesible
someone told me once i would be silenced in certain circles (specifically end game raid groups) of eso gameplay for speaking up i did not care ingame and i dont in forum other than hamper progress thats all that can be done, in the end i try to like everyne i meet in-game but when you come to forums and time and time again keep seeing absurd requests for nerfs and tweaks where they do more harm than good it can be pretty annoying especially when a person starts to believe they are going to happen
i do agree quiet feedback to developers that banner at the moment makes players our own arcs feel silly to play not needing to build crux is great not because the banner makes it s powerful or the end effect but just because its silly not needing to build crux between beams in op groups and does not feel good playing arcanist that way per my single opinion, besides after sublclassing i dont even use banner anymore anyway ! some players do though so its good they can take the mantle up on that. whatever happens i still dont want 95% of players to get a terrible experience from any changes so i can omplete a trial 5 seconds faster or pretend i do not prefer mechs that keep me moving rather than standing still parsing in combat
we are ssing well around four fifth of eso player base just gone now from its hights but now it just so happens to be fatecarver doing it

Lalothen · August 13

There used to be a method for any class to build specifically for powerful ranged & channeled AoE. Then ZOS obliterated it and shoved the one-class replacement behind a paywall. Now in a less-than-half-baked fudge to try to increase player turnover (and in lieu of actually balancing classes), they've made that one overloaded skill line with its overloaded beam available to all classes.

They should rename the game to EBO - Everyone Beams Online.

Daoin · August 13

A beam which in my personal books belonged to a great class yet even after being told play as you want with subclassing people still feel handcuffed to beam thats thier problem not the game worlds. and just like nobody has a problem printing no HA all over at the moment in thier raids they could come up with a choice to post no beams but the wont because its a silly idea, talk or slight nerfs here and there for the past decade hides nothing anymore. but yes those who atually dont play with beam anyway get stick i guess that all makes great sense. balancing every old class to be equal was always going to be as much of a joke too, sort of like saying train to be a gardener when all you want to work as is a driver so you got the job as a driver with no liscence, hence here we are today, the classes were always good working together regardless of dps results its just people seemed to look past that to push absolutely everyone down a very narrow path and now feeling slightly forced down it, if subclassing did not highlight that i dont know whatever will, me personally i think alot of my friend list have left now without even giving subclassing a chance because they have had enough of everything leading upto it too, what once was full is now down to around maybe 4 daily on my personal friend list and not filling because there never really much chance to meet new players anymore, guilds are important for that i guess but thats a whole other ball game. considering the pull of an mmo is meeting new folks for me playing thier own way in random groups when im not doing other things guess thats on its last legs, maybe who knows learn a thing or two from those randoms like how i learned almost everthing i know about playing eso today maybe except even now im scared every group i join even knowing what i know now is just going to be filled with toxic trash 75% of the time, random groups and patient guilds is how i enjoyed and learned eso at my own rate

still never lifted a finger to join an op end game team to this day, doubt they would have me though im pretty fussy about the company i keep and what people think they should get from my gaming time. so i miss the trifecta ? so what no big deal for me is enough i feel confident as a player now in the groups i do join. i dont mind hard modes with randoms or guild but the mention of the word trifecta or sentence we must start again i just take a back seat. also get some great groups though that play lightly sometimes fun. one thing is for sure the mention of the word wipe never fails to enrage me. but in the end i care nt about my own opinions never being taken into account in eso but when really silly decisions are always effecting me personally too regardless then what ?
argue what i say next as you will but developers say they take player feedback i have never sent any, so with one fith of the playerbase remaining and more leaving and those choices still being made what am i to think ? like the lets nerf fatecarver song that been sang for the last decade before even the thought of an arcanist came along or better yet remove it just to see what effect that would have on overall playerbase like out of what 5 k or 6 k people online sometimes theres room to make any who have seen everything through this far away too, game is already become a co op rather than a mmo. and when i buy even an mmo i dont buy it in the hope the way i want to play is going to be encroached upon every few few months and eventually made to totally change, lucky for me was very very easy for all my toons to adapt but what should i be happy with today ? 3 trivial mains 2 experiments and 4 beloved originals which even with subclassing i still like more than my mains, one of my originals probably do quarter of the damage of my main dd but even today they are still more fun to play, will i group in random vets with them anymore even though they did them all too before ? no chance and less chance for someone to come along throwing out the damage insults and advice i dont need because sometimes i want to join vets doing my part and relying on the other dd too in thier role still rather than keeping a close eye on dps tracker, concentrating on skip mechanics and boss burns. but my mistake for thinking joining random groups with players that have neve played together before would or could have been fun and challenging more like slanging matches forced wipes and dps checks if you ask me
now i head back off to my little corner in the boonies to await the next round of changes nerfs and tweaks, changes, sets that theres nobody around to use, bad mmo experience, and like it

Operativ · August 13

Daoin wrote: »

around four fifth of eso player base just gone now from its hights but now it just so happens to be fatecarver doing it

The playerbase looks healthy to me. I don't know where all the doomsayers are getting their data from, but certainly their opinion isn't data-driven, because I haven't seen any numbers.

Let's not derail the discussion with speculations about the playerbase, and please remain on the thread regarding what should be done with Fatecarver.

Daoin · August 13

hmm, haha yes my little personal rant over thankyou better than constantly complaining about something especially to anyone with no chance of ever understanding and sorry if you feel i encroached on your topic a little i did try my best to keep it in the confines of the actual discusin but i guess a rant is a rant in the end ! i will be more than happy to delete anything you find too way off topic also, but yes 8k online now from around the world after a peak of 50k a few years ago, looks just fab !

is just artound the next corner (fatecarver nerf)

xylena_lazarow · August 13

Low APM playstyles shouldn't dominate an otherwise high APM game. It's incoherent design. Either buff the high APM playstyles that aren't being used, or lower the APM of the whole game to match Fatecarver.

I like Fatecarver, zero desire to give myself arthritis clearing trash, which is 90% of the PvE in this game anyway, so no please don't nerf. If anything, Assassin tree should be gutted to F-Tier, its total garbage design overruns both PvE and PvP.

preevious · August 13

MJallday wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

another nerf beam thread. yay!

honestly. please leave the beam alone. its fun, a signficant amount of people love it and have adapted to it

remove the beam, you remove joy from the game. and this game is not in a place where it can afford to remove joy from the game right now IMO

you would be better off buffing other skills to compensate, not killing fun.

people don't use it because it's fun. You included.
People use it because it is overpowered.

If it is nerfed, it'll still be equally as fun to use, but magically, people will stop using it.
So, let's not remove fatecraver, that's too much. Let's nerf it to put it on par with everything else.

And no, we can't really buff everything else, because damn .. power creep is already an issue.

Im afraid your're wrong. I use it for fun. Because i want to enjoy the game. its not actually that overpowered. its just situational. in trashpacks (and certainly pvp) there are better skills.

you can buff other skills without a problem - because in your words - power creep is already there - - and guess what, you'd have more variation of builds .

not everyone does 140k damage. some people barely scratch 40k . remember that before your call for nerfs.

by the way, the constant nerfing of this game is what is keeping people away. people need to be careful what they wish for - too many people leave.. noone will be left.

Well, if you use it for fun, then I don't see why you are against the nerf. It will still be as fun after being nerfed.

Also .. in trashpacks there are better skills? Nope, there isn't, Fatecarver, is, in trash packs, the absolute best skill, so far ahead of all the others that there is no possible comparison. You can't possibly be serious saying such an enormity. It's an outright lie.

I don't mind other skills being buffed ot fatecarver being nerfed. I just say fatecarver is overperforming by the largest marging you can possibly imagine. That must stop, and let's be real, they won't buff everything. So, yes, nerf beam. And please. Even with an heavy nerf, it would remain an excellent skill.

As for the 'not everyone does 140k' bit. yes, sure .. it's totally beside the point, but..sure?

I won't even dignify your last sentence with an answer. That kind of doomsaying is used on the forums since launch. It is deluded and asinine, at best.

Daoin · August 13

preevious wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

another nerf beam thread. yay!

honestly. please leave the beam alone. its fun, a signficant amount of people love it and have adapted to it

remove the beam, you remove joy from the game. and this game is not in a place where it can afford to remove joy from the game right now IMO

you would be better off buffing other skills to compensate, not killing fun.

people don't use it because it's fun. You included.
People use it because it is overpowered.

If it is nerfed, it'll still be equally as fun to use, but magically, people will stop using it.
So, let's not remove fatecraver, that's too much. Let's nerf it to put it on par with everything else.

And no, we can't really buff everything else, because damn .. power creep is already an issue.

Im afraid your're wrong. I use it for fun. Because i want to enjoy the game. its not actually that overpowered. its just situational. in trashpacks (and certainly pvp) there are better skills.

you can buff other skills without a problem - because in your words - power creep is already there - - and guess what, you'd have more variation of builds .

not everyone does 140k damage. some people barely scratch 40k . remember that before your call for nerfs.

by the way, the constant nerfing of this game is what is keeping people away. people need to be careful what they wish for - too many people leave.. noone will be left.

Well, if you use it for fun, then I don't see why you are against the nerf. It will still be as fun after being nerfed.

Also .. in trashpacks there are better skills? Nope, there isn't, Fatecarver, is, in trash packs, the absolute best skill, so far ahead of all the others that there is no possible comparison. You can't possibly be serious saying such an enormity. It's an outright lie.

I don't mind other skills being buffed ot fatecarver being nerfed. I just say fatecarver is overperforming by the largest marging you can possibly imagine. That must stop, and let's be real, they won't buff everything. So, yes, nerf beam. And please. Even with an heavy nerf, it would remain an excellent skill.

As for the 'not everyone does 140k' bit. yes, sure .. it's totally beside the point, but..sure?

I won't even dignify your last sentence with an answer. That kind of doomsaying is used on the forums since launch. It is deluded and asinine, at best.

and your responses bestow the dignity someone you believe in your own mind needs why ? (and please dont print off an eso trifecta)

itsfatbass · August 13

I agree with the OPs opinion. While I surely have enjoyed my arcanist, Fatecarver is THE PROBLEM.

Daoin · August 13

then hopefully yall get your request and it removed, to be honest im past caring because i dont need that either personally and could live on with or without it, really the nly reason i respond to posts like these is when theres nothing else to do except something silly, talking to a brick wall or just simply spraying graffiti everywhere is the only other option at those times

twisttop138 · August 13

I just don't think it'll happen. This forum is such a small group of people, and yes most of us that aren't casuals are sick of fatecarver, but the thousands of people that can't pull 20k dps that just like running around questing, picking flowers and dressing up love that the can use fatecarver and beam down stuff and feel really powerful. ZOS has had multiple opportunities to tone it down and they haven't. That should tell you something. They have the metrics, all we have is napkin math and complaining. Also most people, those casuals, using fatecarver probably don't have bis gear, grim focus and aedric spear passives. We're a small community man, taking fatecarver away isn't going to happen.
Edit spelling

TX12001rwb17_ESO · August 13

They do not need to get rid of it, they just need to nerf it to do damage only 1 time every second. instead of every 0.3 seconds, or they could change the skill so it targets a single enemy.

MJallday · August 14

Well, if you use it for fun, then I don't see why you are against the nerf. It will still be as fun after being nerfed.

You must be new here.

A nerf to this skill would upset the playerbase beyond repair. Its that simple.

twisttop138 · August 14

MJallday wrote: »

Well, if you use it for fun, then I don't see why you are against the nerf. It will still be as fun after being nerfed.

You must be new here.

A nerf to this skill would upset the playerbase beyond repair. Its that simple.

Yes. For the majority of the player base that use this for accessibility, it's not for looks or play style. It's because the high damage and ease of use allows them to do things in game they never could. My wife plays an easy 1 bar arc. She's always just been a quester, housing, putter around and have fun. She has carpel tunnel. We booked her up with a banner, flail beam. Now she can solo WB fights and other stuff she couldn't do before. This is the reality for a large portion of the player base and to take it away would anger many. I'll be fine. I'll just swap to whatever I need to and be able to hit the number my raid lead wants. I'm not scorepusher. Just vet and hm stuff. I get it. People find it boring or are upset because it's rewards are easy to get. I think that was the point though.

As I said above, Zos has had multiple good opportunities to tone it and has only done very small things. Increase cost, banner changed. We can yell into the echo chamber with our math but they have the metrics. If they haven't changed it, you gotta ask yourself why. Likely because thousands of casual players use it and love it. Anecdotal, I'm in a casual social guild as well as a raid guild. We run trials 2 or 3 times a week on vet for them to learn mechs. Our trials always fill with folks who never thought they'd be able to do trials or vet dlc dungeons. We've turned them into raiders and it's thanks in part to herald of the tome. Also subclassing but I won't open that worm can.

preevious · August 14

"Upset the player base beyond repair" .. look, you could as well not be using such bad faith arguments.

Are people going to be a bit miffed? Sure, yes.
Are those people playing for the beam? No, they were playing before, and they'll play after.

Also, no one is suggesting lowering it's damage, right? It's the cleave, that is the issue. Just lower the damage on subsequent target and let it hit full force single target, already.

I really don't get how people can defend the beam as it is now, despite knowing full well it's overtuned. Please, guys, be honnest with yourselves .. at this point, it's nothing but a tantrum ..

twisttop138 · August 14

preevious wrote: »

"Upset the player base beyond repair" .. look, you could as well not be using such bad faith arguments.

Are people going to be a bit miffed? Sure, yes.
Are those people playing for the beam? No, they were playing before, and they'll play after.

Also, no one is suggesting lowering it's damage, right? It's the cleave, that is the issue. Just lower the damage on subsequent target and let it hit full force single target, already.

I really don't get how people can defend the beam as it is now, despite knowing full well it's overtuned. Please, guys, be honnest with yourselves .. at this point, it's nothing but a tantrum ..

Of course people will defend it. They like it how it is. The overtuned aspect is what makes it fun. The majority of players care nothing for power creep and making trial fights trivial. I'm pretty tired of playing it, but it doesn't bother me at all. I try not to get worked up over video games. Your suggestion is actually not bad, I wouldn't mind it at all. Beyond repair is also a wild claim but my point stands. They could've toned it down many times already. Subclassing was the perfect time. They didn't. That begs the question, why? I made my opinion clear but we'll never actually know.

Lebensf0rm · August 14

preevious wrote: »

"Upset the player base beyond repair" .. look, you could as well not be using such bad faith arguments.

Are people going to be a bit miffed? Sure, yes.
Are those people playing for the beam? No, they were playing before, and they'll play after.

Also, no one is suggesting lowering it's damage, right? It's the cleave, that is the issue. Just lower the damage on subsequent target and let it hit full force single target, already.

I really don't get how people can defend the beam as it is now, despite knowing full well it's overtuned. Please, guys, be honnest with yourselves .. at this point, it's nothing but a tantrum ..

Nerfing Fatecarver without buffing other sets and abilities to compensate for the substantial loss in power would be bad for the game. "Upset the player base beyond repair" is hyperbolic, but not as much as you might think. Damage going down feels bad for groups across the skill spectrum, and lots of people will just quit. U35's power loss did damage to the raiding community that is honestly still being felt; lots of folks left and never came back, or only came back for Arc's release or subclassing.