PTS Update 47 - Feedback Thread for Classes & Abilities Changes

madmufffin

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

A simple change to keep pure class NB and Sorc competitive and still suitable for subclassing.

1. Move the wd lost by Grim Focus to Shadowy Disguise in Shadow. Since Shadowy Disguise lost Major Prophecy and Major Savagery in U47, gaining some wd should be a reasonable compensation. Just set the effect to: "When Shadowy Disguise begins or ends, increase your damage done to monsters by 10%, and increase 300 wd for 10 seconds"

2. Exploitation, in order to avoid being too similar to Hemorrhage, but still be able to compete with it, you can add "increase direct damage caused by 6%". 6% direct damage is not a particularly high buff, although it may enhance Fatecarver, but considering that many people have already obtained 5% class damage from Solar Barrage, it is still reasonable to let Exploitation provide 6% direct damage.

3. Add a 20-second dot to Manifestation of Terror and Shattering Spines after they hit the target, so that they can play a better role in PVE. There are many ways to remove negative effects in PVP now, so it will not have a big impact on PVP.

4. Blood Magic has been changed from the maximum resource of U47 to increase critical damage and critical treatment by 8%.

5. The damage caused by Veil of Blades and Suppression Field has been increased, and the former will provide Major Force to the team after enabling synergy, and the latter will cause Major Brittle to the damaged target. This will allow both to compete with other damage-type ultimate skills.

I'd also add Negate to this and give it a similar treatment to Consumin Darkness. It's pretty underwhelming and straight unusable in PVE. Both skills need a pretty notable hike to their damage morph tooltip and a secondary effect such as force. The heal variant of each could give vitality or heroism or something to better fit thematically. Crit damage and direct damage being in Dark Magic would be hugely beneficial to making the skill line worth slotting in PVE.

argonian37

Zos please, buff shadow line. The main purpose of that skill line is to bring “opportunist assassin” skills to a character, not a tank line. Please give the wd/sd that was substracted from grim focus to shadow skill line. Please don’t nerf the skills that players love… instead, buff the ones that they don’t.

Dino-Jr

I wonder if it would be possible over the long term to add 1 more skill to each base class skill line that only unlocks if all 3 skill lines are from the same class. Could probably make it 1 additional skill and 1 additional passive per line. The new skills wouldnt be ultimates.

To unlock them you could do something fun like make them part of a Class specific quest line that ends with you getting a new class motif you can only wear if fully base class.

BasP

Since I can’t seem to resist being an armchair developer, I thought I’d throw out a few ideas for the Shadow skill line from a PvE DPS perspective as well.

Twisting Path could be buffed
At the moment Twisting Path deals noticeably less damage per second than most class's ground AoEs:

Since the Major Expedition it grants is only situationally useful, I think the skill would benefit from a damage increase. If both its damage and cost were increased by 10%, it would at least match Lightning Flood's DPS (not counting the synergy). Twisting Path could also gain a higher chance to apply the Overcharged status effect, or something similar, to make it feel a bit more impactful without pushing it over the edge.

Shadowy Disguise
Minor Protection feels slightly out of place here, especially since Shadowy Disguise isn’t the tanking morph. Maybe it could get a different buff that is somewhat useful for damage dealers, such as Minor Force or 2974 Offensive Penetration? I do realize that Minor Force is really common and the Penetration might be wasted in a lot of scenarios, but I reckon that either of those buffs would at least benefit some setups.

Born From Shadow
To further increase the viability of Shadow for PvE damage dealers, maybe the damage done to monsters buff could be increased slightly. Maybe from 10% to something like 12%? It would also help if Born From Shadow could be triggered when skills such as Banner Bearer or Shalks are active by the way.

Grim Focus' lost Weapon/ Spell Damage could be added to one of the passives
Since pure Nightblades have lost the Weapon and Spell Damage from Grim Focus and didn’t really gain anything to compensate, I feel like it would be nice if at least some of that W/S Damage would shuffled into the Shadow skill line. It could maybe be added to one of the passives. For example:

• Dark Veil: Increases the duration of your non-invisibility based Shadow abilities by 2 seconds. While a non-invisibility based Shadow skill is active, your Weapon and Spell Damage are increased by 284.

That would be less than the 400 W/S Damage Relentless Focus currently gives on the Live Server, but I reckon it'd be close enough (especially if some of the other skills and/or passives were buffed as well).

ESO_Nightingale

Radiate77 wrote: »

Love the change to Lightning Form, keep up the great work defining skill lines.

Ardent Flame is Flame Damage and Healing.
Winter’s Embrace is Frost Damage and Defense.
Storm Calling is Lightning Damage and Mobility.

Any outliers to this rule need to be adjusted, or removed.

I know this is super late but i hard disagree here.

Radiate77

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Love the change to Lightning Form, keep up the great work defining skill lines.

Ardent Flame is Flame Damage and Healing.
Winter’s Embrace is Frost Damage and Defense.
Storm Calling is Lightning Damage and Mobility.

Any outliers to this rule need to be adjusted, or removed.

I know this is super late but i hard disagree here.

Disagree all you want, that is exactly how they started, and have over time deviated away from the original creator’s vision. lol

All Subclasses need to adhere to a rule of some kind and they are all over the place right now. It not being the case has lead to every build running the most stat dense lines all playing exactly the same as each other.

Eventually they’ll have to make more skill lines and if they’re a mess too, how are they going to sell them other than loading them with stats or giving them a nonsense gimmick like beam?

Instead of having yet another god ray, I’d rather get my hands on a Frost Damage skill line that focuses more heavily on damage and has a different utility, ect…

MincMincMinc

Radiate77 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Love the change to Lightning Form, keep up the great work defining skill lines.

Ardent Flame is Flame Damage and Healing.
Winter’s Embrace is Frost Damage and Defense.
Storm Calling is Lightning Damage and Mobility.

Any outliers to this rule need to be adjusted, or removed.

I know this is super late but i hard disagree here.

All Subclasses need to adhere to a rule of some kind and they are all over the place right now. It not being the case has lead to every build running the most stat dense lines all playing exactly the same as each other.

Crazy how we can go from vengeance PTS threads of people crying to go back to live because they hate template pvp....meanwhile live is just template pvp with extra convoluted steps.

BasP

I thought I'd compare some (delayed) direct damage abilities to see if anything could use a buff - just in my humble opinion, of course.

* I added the Reusable Parts passive to the cost of the skill since it decreases Blastbones cost by so much and it's basically up all of the time.
* * These values are with the 200% additional damage for the second hit.

Haunting Curse
The damage is relatively low and it also doesn't have a secondary effect, unlike most of the skills in the table. Therefore I feel like the damage could easily be increased by 10% without making it overpowered compared to the other skills. It could perhaps even apply a debuff to the targets as well, such as Major Breach or something similar to Abyssal Ink.

Tentacular Dread
Truth be told, I don't know why the this skill costs so much Magicka. It makes it a bit difficult to sustain using it a semi-spammable, which is a pity. I personally think it'd be great if the cost was reduced to 2700, or maybe even a little bit lower.

Purifying Light
I feel like Purifying Light isn't used much by players. Using Power of the Light instead results in noticeably more DPS due to the Sundered procs, and Purifying Light's relatively weak Heal over Time isn't enough to really make a difference. But perhaps each hit could also apply Overcharged? And/or maybe the value of the HoT could be increased?

MashmalloMan

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

As you can see, the maximum damage of Relentless Focus (33982) is greater than the 33602 of Proc-Crystal Fragments, and Relentless Focus is easier to use and does not need to rely on randomness.

Instant Crystal Frags can be used on average once every 3 seconds, maybe more, maybe less, vs once every 5 seconds for Grim Focus. So yeah, it's to be expected that it hits less. It's more readily available, no matter how much you may dislike the RNG, that's the intended flavour of the skill. It's actually more reliable and consistent in my opinion because you can proc it from any bar, and you don't need to hit your target with a light attack. You can literally be facing the wrong direction and earn an instant frag.

Additionally, while many don't like Hard Cast Frags, it's still an option that shouldn't be ignored. Grim Focus can't be used as a spammable, Frags can. It doubles as 2 skills in 1 and potentially saves a skill slot on your bar for something new, that could directly increase your total DPS or improve your Frag damage.

TLDR: I don't know why we're comparing them 1:1, apples and oranges.

Not to mention, if the status effect is taken into account, the damage ratio of Relentless Focus will be higher, because Overcharged causes less damage than Diseased.

This is just not true, they reworked status effects years ago to be based on Burning as the standard. 4/5 of the direct damage status effects deal 10% more than 1 tick of Burning. This applies to Sunder, Concuss, Overcharge, and Chill. Diseased deals the same damage as 1 tick of Burning, so -10% less than the rest, but has an aoe proc on a 4s cooldown that deals only 40% of what 1 tick of Burning does.

100% + 40%(4s cd) = Diseased
110% = Overcharged

If you only procced Diseased and Overcharged once every 4s, then yes, Diseased will come out slightly ahead because of the 4s aoe proc, but firstly, they're incredibly close it's negligible, and secondly, Overcharged would come out ahead if procced more often than once every 4s since it has no cd on the extra 10% damage. Just so happens you can use Frags much more often than Grim Focus, so comparing status effects is a wasted endeavor. If anything it favours Frags.

In addition, the damage ratio of Force Pulse is 8.5%+8.1%+7.8%+burning (2.5%)+chill (1.4%)+Concussion (0.4%)=28.7%
And Crystal Fragments+Proc-Crystal Fragments+Overcharged is 38.1%, which is less than 10% higher than Force Pulse, and this is the case when Proc-Crystal Fragments are included.

These results are to be expected, it's not 10% better, it's roughly 33% better. You also get 108 ws damage if paired with Storm Calling which improves the rest of your DPS.

Again, apples and oranges, but this does show why Crystal Frags is a well designed spammable that also doubles up as a semi burst skill via Instant Frags.

If we only count the single damage, the maximum damage of Crystal Fragments+Overcharged is 19550+2918=22468
And the damage of Force Pulse is 5823+5756+5792+burning(2062)+chill(2869)+Concussion(1559)=23861
The maximum damage of Force Pulse (although affected by the chance) is still higher than Crystal Fragments, and don't forget that Crystal Fragments has a casting time of 0.8 seconds.

Why would we ignore half of the reason the skill is used? That would be like saying "if we ignore that Force Pulse can apply 3 status effects or does aoe damage..." It's a part of what makes both skills do something different. If you want to compare spammable to spammable, you need to include the whole picture. Hard Casting Frags procs Instant Frags the same way casting Force Pulse procs more status effects. They both contribute to DPS.

I'm not saying I love hard casting Frags, I'm just saying it's balanced appropriately. Nothing needs to change.

It is obvious that the changes to Blood Magic this time will not help the Dark Magic line, because it lacks stable and efficient spam skills, and Proc-Crystal is very unstable and cannot be guaranteed to be used continuously within 10 seconds. Not to mention the other skills and passives of this line, which are either poor or useless.
Dark Magic is in desperate need of a bigger buff, as the strongest skill in the line currently does even less damage than the common skills, not to mention Crystal has a 0.8 second cast time, and Proc-Crystal is very unstable. Not to mention Suppression Field, Shattering Spines, Rune Cage, Daedric Tomb, etc., which do even less damage and are less useful, and even cost more than similar skills.

I mean I agree with all this, I just don't agree with your method of proving it. Crystal Frag and Dark Exchange are great skills, the rest needs a lot of work. Focus on the rest.

universal_wrath

MashmalloMan wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

As you can see, the maximum damage of Relentless Focus (33982) is greater than the 33602 of Proc-Crystal Fragments, and Relentless Focus is easier to use and does not need to rely on randomness.

Instant Crystal Frags can be used on average once every 3 seconds, maybe more, maybe less, vs once every 5 seconds for Grim Focus. So yeah, it's to be expected that it hits less. It's more readily available, no matter how much you may dislike the RNG, that's the intended flavour of the skill. It's actually more reliable and consistent in my opinion because you can proc it from any bar, and you don't need to hit your target with a light attack. You can literally be facing the wrong direction and earn an instant frag.

Additionally, while many don't like Hard Cast Frags, it's still an option that shouldn't be ignored. Grim Focus can't be used as a spammable, Frags can. It doubles as 2 skills in 1 and potentially saves a skill slot on your bar for something new, that could directly increase your total DPS or improve your Frag damage.

TLDR: I don't know why we're comparing them 1:1, apples and oranges.

Not to mention, if the status effect is taken into account, the damage ratio of Relentless Focus will be higher, because Overcharged causes less damage than Diseased.

This is just not true, they reworked status effects years ago to be based on Burning as the standard. 4/5 of the direct damage status effects deal 10% more than 1 tick of Burning. This applies to Sunder, Concuss, Overcharge, and Chill. Diseased deals the same damage as 1 tick of Burning, so -10% less than the rest, but has an aoe proc on a 4s cooldown that deals only 40% of what 1 tick of Burning does.

100% + 40%(4s cd) = Diseased
110% = Overcharged

If you only procced Diseased and Overcharged once every 4s, then yes, Diseased will come out slightly ahead because of the 4s aoe proc, but firstly, they're incredibly close it's negligible, and secondly, Overcharged would come out ahead if procced more often than once every 4s since it has no cd on the extra 10% damage. Just so happens you can use Frags much more often than Grim Focus, so comparing status effects is a wasted endeavor. If anything it favours Frags.

In addition, the damage ratio of Force Pulse is 8.5%+8.1%+7.8%+burning (2.5%)+chill (1.4%)+Concussion (0.4%)=28.7%
And Crystal Fragments+Proc-Crystal Fragments+Overcharged is 38.1%, which is less than 10% higher than Force Pulse, and this is the case when Proc-Crystal Fragments are included.

These results are to be expected, it's not 10% better, it's roughly 33% better. You also get 108 ws damage if paired with Storm Calling which improves the rest of your DPS.

Again, apples and oranges, but this does show why Crystal Frags is a well designed spammable that also doubles up as a semi burst skill via Instant Frags.

If we only count the single damage, the maximum damage of Crystal Fragments+Overcharged is 19550+2918=22468
And the damage of Force Pulse is 5823+5756+5792+burning(2062)+chill(2869)+Concussion(1559)=23861
The maximum damage of Force Pulse (although affected by the chance) is still higher than Crystal Fragments, and don't forget that Crystal Fragments has a casting time of 0.8 seconds.

Why would we ignore half of the reason the skill is used? That would be like saying "if we ignore that Force Pulse can apply 3 status effects or does aoe damage..." It's a part of what makes both skills do something different. If you want to compare spammable to spammable, you need to include the whole picture. Hard Casting Frags procs Instant Frags the same way casting Force Pulse procs more status effects. They both contribute to DPS.

I'm not saying I love hard casting Frags, I'm just saying it's balanced appropriately. Nothing needs to change.

It is obvious that the changes to Blood Magic this time will not help the Dark Magic line, because it lacks stable and efficient spam skills, and Proc-Crystal is very unstable and cannot be guaranteed to be used continuously within 10 seconds. Not to mention the other skills and passives of this line, which are either poor or useless.
Dark Magic is in desperate need of a bigger buff, as the strongest skill in the line currently does even less damage than the common skills, not to mention Crystal has a 0.8 second cast time, and Proc-Crystal is very unstable. Not to mention Suppression Field, Shattering Spines, Rune Cage, Daedric Tomb, etc., which do even less damage and are less useful, and even cost more than similar skills.

I mean I agree with all this, I just don't agree with your method of proving it. Crystal Frag and Dark Exchange are great skills, the rest needs a lot of work. Focus on the rest.

Rarely anyone use hard cast frags because it has multiple downsides in comparison to instant casts. Using hard cast frag in pvp make you a target for interupt, you move slower, and you can not cast and dodge or block at the same time.

Even when hard cast frag is roughly ~5% stronger than most range spammables, it is actualy not worth using over other spammalbe and it goes to show why the skill is primairly used for its proc like grim focus. Devs through out the years kept on buffing the proc part of the skill because they know the actual use of the skill is the proc part, and the spammable part is just something there to make the skill unique as 2 in 1.

With subclassing, the problem of dark magic and crystal frag become more prevelent, currently, for both PvP and PvE, dps do not use dark magic, and main sorcerers would rather use storm classing over dark magic. those who use dark magic are mostly tanks, healers, or pure sorcerer class dps.

Sorcerer class in general need a lot love and attention.

Nemesis7884

Can we change the necromancer hungry scythe to frost damage please? Since its a tank skill, the other morph is not jut physical and all other necro dam is elemental (and disease and frost fit thematically the best

Eteson24

I still don't know why the hurricane major resolve change was reverted. That skill is so loaded which is why it's everywhere in PVP.

Clearly you guys believed the same which is why the change was made in the first place but at the very least decrease the range or damage.

Getting chased around Cyrodiil by sorcs is a terrible experience. Especially when you've dodged most of their attacks and you die because you can't out run the radius even with max speed.

It seems like you guys were trying to make it similar to Race Against Time. What if Race Against Time gave Major Resolve as well?

Also, take a look at the Warden charm radius / functionality please. It charms you even if you're out of the circle and if you drop down from the ledge it's placed on, it pulls you back up and gets you stuck in buildings / terrain.

Then your forced to wait until the siege is over to do the unstuck command since you're still in combat or just sign off and hope the game has moved you when sign in again.

randconfig

BasP wrote: »

I thought I'd compare some (delayed) direct damage abilities to see if anything could use a buff - just in my humble opinion, of course.

* I added the Reusable Parts passive to the cost of the skill since it decreases Blastbones cost by so much and it's basically up all of the time.
* * These values are with the 200% additional damage for the second hit.

Haunting Curse
The damage is relatively low and it also doesn't have a secondary effect, unlike most of the skills in the table. Therefore I feel like the damage could easily be increased by 10% without making it overpowered compared to the other skills. It could perhaps even apply a debuff to the targets as well, such as Major Breach or something similar to Abyssal Ink.

Tentacular Dread
Truth be told, I don't know why the this skill costs so much Magicka. It makes it a bit difficult to sustain using it a semi-spammable, which is a pity. I personally think it'd be great if the cost was reduced to 2700, or maybe even a little bit lower.

Purifying Light
I feel like Purifying Light isn't used much by players. Using Power of the Light instead results in noticeably more DPS due to the Sundered procs, and Purifying Light's relatively weak Heal over Time isn't enough to really make a difference. But perhaps each hit could also apply Overcharged? And/or maybe the value of the HoT could be increased?

Unfortunately, devs only care about pleasing Arcanist beam spammers. Tentacular Dread never gets buffed, and has had a bugged interaction with Tome Bearer's Inspiration since the class released two years ago now?

randconfig

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Can we change the necromancer hungry scythe to frost damage please? Since its a tank skill, the other morph is not jut physical and all other necro dam is elemental (and disease and frost fit thematically the best

I would also like it to be frost, but also with some kind of bonus effect, like extra damage attacking chilled enemies or something creative...

randconfig

Also would be nice if Necromancer's Ghostly Embrace (Grave Grasp damage morph) didn't move the AoE forward, but instead hit in the same location 3 times. The moving forward makes it incredibly difficult to use/reliably hit targets, I almost never see it used outside of me trying to test it.

BasP

randconfig wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Can we change the necromancer hungry scythe to frost damage please? Since its a tank skill, the other morph is not jut physical and all other necro dam is elemental (and disease and frost fit thematically the best

I would also like it to be frost, but also with some kind of bonus effect, like extra damage attacking chilled enemies or something creative...

Yeah, that would definitely be nice as well. I believe Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweep deals 50%+ more damage and costs 20%+ less than (Hungry) Scythe, so it could definitely benefit from some kind of damage increase. I realize it's a tanking skill stuck in a tanking skill line, but still...

randconfig

BasP wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Can we change the necromancer hungry scythe to frost damage please? Since its a tank skill, the other morph is not jut physical and all other necro dam is elemental (and disease and frost fit thematically the best

I would also like it to be frost, but also with some kind of bonus effect, like extra damage attacking chilled enemies or something creative...

Yeah, that would definitely be nice as well. I believe Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweep deals 50%+ more damage and costs 20%+ less than (Hungry) Scythe, so it could definitely benefit from some kind of damage increase. I realize it's a tanking skill stuck in a tanking skill line, but still...

Warden Ice Skillline has dps abilities, no reason Bone Tyrant couldn't also have dps morphs of abilities. Like Ardent Flame Lava Whip deals huge bonus damage to offbalance enemies, costs half, and is a huge heal for Dragon Knights, why can't Necromancer Scythe be somewhat competitive with that. I think it would be nice and an opportunity to add another useful frost spell to ice themed builds arsenal.

randconfig

I just tested using only Necromancer class ability summons (Spirit Guardian, Skeletal Mage, Blastbones, and use Animate Blastbones ultimate to summon 3 more Blastbones) in PVE (where the pet limit cap is supposed to be 10), while using Flame Skull/Ricochet Skull and still am getting the "Failed to summon combat pet: Capacity reached.":


This should not be intended in PVE or PVP, as I'm literally just using my Necromancer class abilities as designed, but if it is, can devs talk to us Necromancer mains about what's going on with our class and if we may see a fix before U47 goes live?

universal_wrath

Change the required stats and resources for all abilities:

- Target and AOE Healing skills should scale with max magicka/stamina
- self healing scale with health.
- Target and AOE damage shields scale with max magicka/stamina primarily and capped at 40% health.
- self shield scale with health and capped at 60%
- All abilities use resources highest/lowest stat.
- unique skills that do multiple effects scale with health or split resources magicka and stamina.
- unamed buffs/debuffs and passives scale with their pertaining stats/resources or the number of skills sloted related to the buff/debuff and passives.

Dino-Jr

The nightblade changes to shadow the more i have reviewed it i think will force me to stop using the shadow line and to use assassination even more than i already was.

Sorta unintended consequence of the change is basically that shadow no longer feels worth subclassing into. Not sure its something to fix but it is something thats happened.

randconfig

Dino-Jr wrote: »

The nightblade changes to shadow the more i have reviewed it i think will force me to stop using the shadow line and to use assassination even more than i already was.

Sorta unintended consequence of the change is basically that shadow no longer feels worth subclassing into. Not sure its something to fix but it is something thats happened.

The only solution I can think of is for all skill lines to get DPS passives, Tank passives, and Healer passives. That includes major/minor buffs sourced from the abilities in the skill line.

There needs to be an equal distribution of power, tanking, and healing for each individual class skill line, otherwise, people will continue to stack 3 of the most optimal for whatever role they have, and continue to break both PVP and PVE...

Perhaps they could considered introducing new abilities for all class skill lines to achieve this, or a third morph option for all class abilities specifically, or maybe it would be better to add new grimiores that give easier access to major minor buffs, so that you don't have to make all class skill lines too similar. People could just use scribing to fill in gaps.

randconfig

Well 11.1.4 also doesn't fix Necromancer summons. Can the devs tell us what's going on with Necromancer?

I really hate having to spam the forums about the issue, but what else can I do to be heard.

BasP

After seeing how rarely Warden skill lines are used by damage dealers in PvE again, I wanted to include Green Balance in this feedback as well. I think it would be cool if that skill line would get some plant-themed damaging abilities in a future update.

Since many of its morphs have similar effects at the moment, perhaps a few could be condensed - making room for a couple of DPS-focused morphs?

Pros

• It would be a small buff for pure Warden DDs, since they have one useless skill line at the moment.
• It would open up more build options, which would be great in my book.
• ESO doesn't really have plant-themed offensive abilities yet, which is a pity for those that want to use the subclassing system to create some sort of Druid DD.

Some ideas for abilities and passives
The ideas below are meant to better illustrate my point; I don’t actually expect the developers to implement them, of course.

Soothing Spores -> Venomous Spores

• Seed a large area of mushrooms in front of you, dealing 2342 Poison Damage. Deals 15% more damage to enemies that are within 6 meters of you.
• The cost of this morph and Enchanted Growth could be determined by the highest max resource so that those rare Stamina healers still have a Green Balance healing ability.

Corrupting Pollen

• Summon a field of flowers at the target location, dealing 4150 Poison Damage over 10 seconds to enemies inside. Enemies are afflicted with Major Defile and Minor Cowardice for 4.1 seconds each tick, reducing their healing received and damage shield strength by 12% and their Weapon and Spell Damage by 215. An ally within the field can activate the Harvest synergy, healing for 3372 Health over 5 seconds.

Leeching vines

• Grow vines to entwine your foe for 20 seconds, dealing 4785 Poison Damage over 20 seconds and immobilizing them for 3 seconds. You heal for 100% of the damage done with this ability.

Lotus Blossom

• Embrace the lotus blessing, causing your Light Attacks to deal an additional 315 Poison Damage and your fully-charged Heavy Attacks to deal an additional 945 Poison Damage for 20 seconds. While slotted on either bar, you gain Major Prophecy and Savagery, increasing your Spell and Weapon Critical rating by 2629.

Bursting Vines

• Launch a vine to swing yourself to your foe, instantly dealing 1603 Poison Damage to them and enemies within 6 meters. Enemies hit take an additional 2050 Poison Damage over 5 seconds. An ally near the vines can activate the Burst synergy, dealing 2812 Poison Damage to all effected enemies.

Ultimate: Healing Thicket -> Poisonous Thicket

• Swell a forest at the target location, instantly dealing 3838 Poison Damage and applying the Poisoned status effect to enemies within 6 meters. The forest continues to deal 928 Poison Damage in the area every 1 second for 6 seconds and snares enemies by 50% for 3 seconds each tick.

Passives:

• Accelerated Growth: Increases the chance to apply the Poisoned status effect by 75%. When you heal yourself or an ally under 40% Health with a Green Balance ability you gain Major Mending, increasing your healing done by 16% for 4 seconds.
• Nature's Gift: When you heal an ally or deal damage with a Green Balance ability, you gain 200 Magicka or 200 Stamina, whichever resource pool is lower. This effect can occur once every 1 second.
• Emerald Moss: Increases your healing done with Green Balance abilities by 5% and damage done against enemies inflicted with a Poison effect by 3% for each Green Balance ability slotted.

YandereGirlfriend

BasP wrote: »

After seeing how rarely Warden skill lines are used by damage dealers in PvE again, I wanted to include Green Balance in this feedback as well. I think it would be cool if that skill line would get some plant-themed damaging abilities in a future update.

Since many of its morphs have similar effects at the moment, perhaps a few could be condensed - making room for a couple of DPS-focused morphs?

Pros

• It would be a small buff for pure Warden DDs, since they have one useless skill line at the moment.
• It would open up more build options, which would be great in my book.
• ESO doesn't really have plant-themed offensive abilities yet, which is a pity for those that want to use the subclassing system to create some sort of Druid DD.

Some ideas for abilities and passives
The ideas below are meant to better illustrate my point; I don’t actually expect the developers to implement them, of course.

Soothing Spores -> Venomous Spores

• Seed a large area of mushrooms in front of you, dealing 2342 Poison Damage. Deals 15% more damage to enemies that are within 6 meters of you.
• The cost of this morph and Enchanted Growth could be determined by the highest max resource so that those rare Stamina healers still have a Green Balance healing ability.

Corrupting Pollen

• Summon a field of flowers at the target location, dealing 4150 Poison Damage over 10 seconds to enemies inside. Enemies are afflicted with Major Defile and Minor Cowardice for 4.1 seconds each tick, reducing their healing received and damage shield strength by 12% and their Weapon and Spell Damage by 215. An ally within the field can activate the Harvest synergy, healing for 3372 Health over 5 seconds.

Leeching vines

• Grow vines to entwine your foe for 20 seconds, dealing 4785 Poison Damage over 20 seconds and immobilizing them for 3 seconds. You heal for 100% of the damage done with this ability.

Lotus Blossom

• Embrace the lotus blessing, causing your Light Attacks to deal an additional 315 Poison Damage and your fully-charged Heavy Attacks to deal an additional 945 Poison Damage for 20 seconds. While slotted on either bar, you gain Major Prophecy and Savagery, increasing your Spell and Weapon Critical rating by 2629.

Bursting Vines

• Launch a vine to swing yourself to your foe, instantly dealing 1603 Poison Damage to them and enemies within 6 meters. Enemies hit take an additional 2050 Poison Damage over 5 seconds. An ally near the vines can activate the Burst synergy, dealing 2812 Poison Damage to all effected enemies.

Ultimate: Healing Thicket -> Poisonous Thicket

• Swell a forest at the target location, instantly dealing 3838 Poison Damage and applying the Poisoned status effect to enemies within 6 meters. The forest continues to deal 928 Poison Damage in the area every 1 second for 6 seconds and snares enemies by 50% for 3 seconds each tick.

Passives:

• Accelerated Growth: Increases the chance to apply the Poisoned status effect by 75%. When you heal yourself or an ally under 40% Health with a Green Balance ability you gain Major Mending, increasing your healing done by 16% for 4 seconds.
• Nature's Gift: When you heal an ally or deal damage with a Green Balance ability, you gain 200 Magicka or 200 Stamina, whichever resource pool is lower. This effect can occur once every 1 second.
• Emerald Moss: Increases your healing done with Green Balance abilities by 5% and damage done against enemies inflicted with a Poison effect by 3% for each Green Balance ability slotted.

LOVE this!

Only thematic element is an additional Bleed ability since the thorns -> Bleed angle is too logical to not do.

YandereGirlfriend

This is a pet peeve of mine but can in-class effects NOT be treated as proc events for the purposes of sets and such?

For example, the heal from Dark Magic doesn't work with any sets because it's randomly treated as a proc event. But the class literally IS my character and is not a piece of gear, CP star, potion, etc.

It feels very strange to be penalized simply for existing as a specific class. And to have core components of a class, things are that baked into the overall power budget of a skill line, be considered second-class by the very mechanics of the game itself.

BasP

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

After seeing how rarely Warden skill lines are used by damage dealers in PvE again, I wanted to include Green Balance in this feedback as well. I think it would be cool if that skill line would get some plant-themed damaging abilities in a future update.

Since many of its morphs have similar effects at the moment, perhaps a few could be condensed - making room for a couple of DPS-focused morphs?

Pros

• It would be a small buff for pure Warden DDs, since they have one useless skill line at the moment.
• It would open up more build options, which would be great in my book.
• ESO doesn't really have plant-themed offensive abilities yet, which is a pity for those that want to use the subclassing system to create some sort of Druid DD.

Some ideas for abilities and passives
The ideas below are meant to better illustrate my point; I don’t actually expect the developers to implement them, of course.

Soothing Spores -> Venomous Spores

• Seed a large area of mushrooms in front of you, dealing 2342 Poison Damage. Deals 15% more damage to enemies that are within 6 meters of you.
• The cost of this morph and Enchanted Growth could be determined by the highest max resource so that those rare Stamina healers still have a Green Balance healing ability.

Corrupting Pollen

• Summon a field of flowers at the target location, dealing 4150 Poison Damage over 10 seconds to enemies inside. Enemies are afflicted with Major Defile and Minor Cowardice for 4.1 seconds each tick, reducing their healing received and damage shield strength by 12% and their Weapon and Spell Damage by 215. An ally within the field can activate the Harvest synergy, healing for 3372 Health over 5 seconds.

Leeching vines

• Grow vines to entwine your foe for 20 seconds, dealing 4785 Poison Damage over 20 seconds and immobilizing them for 3 seconds. You heal for 100% of the damage done with this ability.

Lotus Blossom

• Embrace the lotus blessing, causing your Light Attacks to deal an additional 315 Poison Damage and your fully-charged Heavy Attacks to deal an additional 945 Poison Damage for 20 seconds. While slotted on either bar, you gain Major Prophecy and Savagery, increasing your Spell and Weapon Critical rating by 2629.

Bursting Vines

• Launch a vine to swing yourself to your foe, instantly dealing 1603 Poison Damage to them and enemies within 6 meters. Enemies hit take an additional 2050 Poison Damage over 5 seconds. An ally near the vines can activate the Burst synergy, dealing 2812 Poison Damage to all effected enemies.

Ultimate: Healing Thicket -> Poisonous Thicket

• Swell a forest at the target location, instantly dealing 3838 Poison Damage and applying the Poisoned status effect to enemies within 6 meters. The forest continues to deal 928 Poison Damage in the area every 1 second for 6 seconds and snares enemies by 50% for 3 seconds each tick.

Passives:

• Accelerated Growth: Increases the chance to apply the Poisoned status effect by 75%. When you heal yourself or an ally under 40% Health with a Green Balance ability you gain Major Mending, increasing your healing done by 16% for 4 seconds.
• Nature's Gift: When you heal an ally or deal damage with a Green Balance ability, you gain 200 Magicka or 200 Stamina, whichever resource pool is lower. This effect can occur once every 1 second.
• Emerald Moss: Increases your healing done with Green Balance abilities by 5% and damage done against enemies inflicted with a Poison effect by 3% for each Green Balance ability slotted.

LOVE this!

Only thematic element is an additional Bleed ability since the thorns -> Bleed angle is too logical to not do.

Thanks! Yeah, I agree that Bleed Damage would be thematic as well. I was actually wondering whether to go with Bleed, Poison or a mix of those damage types at first, but ended up simplifying it and using Poison for everything.

katorga

universal_wrath wrote: »

Change the required stats and resources for all abilities:

- Target and AOE Healing skills should scale with max magicka/stamina
- self healing scale with health.
- Target and AOE damage shields scale with max magicka/stamina primarily and capped at 40% health.
- self shield scale with health and capped at 60%
- All abilities use resources highest/lowest stat.
- unique skills that do multiple effects scale with health or split resources magicka and stamina.
- unamed buffs/debuffs and passives scale with their pertaining stats/resources or the number of skills sloted related to the buff/debuff and passives.

Self healing should scale with mag/stam too, otherwise you get max health/max weapon damage builds that still have massive healing. Not uncommon to see 40-60K health builds with 6000 weapon damage.

YandereGirlfriend

The Scribing shields scaling with Max HP remains completely wildstyle and inexplicable.

BasP

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I thought I'd leave one last comment with Animal Companions feedback (backed by my own rather underwhelming parses) in this thread. Because while the skill line performs very well in PvP, I still hope it can be improved in PvE a bit without impacting PvP too heavily in a not too distant future.

So to start with I did a couple of parses with a Herald of the Tome + Assassination + Ardent Flame setup on the PTS and I ended up doing 158K DPS:

Substituting any of those skill lines for Animal Companions was, of course, a DPS loss:

Animal Companions + Herald of the Tome + Assassination: 151-152K DPS

With Deep Fissure:


With Sub. Assault:

Animal Companions + Herald of the Tome + Ardent Flame: 150K DPS

Animal Companions + Assassination + Ardent Flame: Only 148K DPS

Things that hold the skill line back, in my opinion:

• Three of its active abilities (Dive, Swarm and Falcon's Swiftness) are either overshadowed by other skills in the subclassing meta or, in the case of Falcon's Swiftness, just not really useful in PvE group content.
• It only has one passive that directly increases its damage output, Advanced Species. But because some of the better skill lines already increase Critical Damage and builds can be over the cap even without Advanced Species, the bonus is sometimes wasted in PvE.

Here are some ideas for those specific abilities, though other changes could be great as well of course:

Falcon's Swiftness

• Perhaps activating it could give a specific PvE buff - similarly to Born From Shadow?
• Deceptive Predator could reduce the damage done by monsters by X% and Bird of Prey could increase your damage done to monsters by X%, for example.

Screaming Cliff Racer

• The buff you get when you hit an Off Balance target is good, but that's the only thing the skill has going for it - and I personally lost DPS when I added the skill to the above setup with Assassination and Ardent Flame:

With Screaming Cliff Racer instead of the passively slotted Molten Whip: 141K DPS

With Screaming Cliff Racer instead of Surprise Attack: 144K DPS

• To improve its usage as a spammable, perhaps it could get an effect similar to Stagger? Each hit would then increase your damage done to the target by X per stack, stacking up to Y times.

Cutting Dive

• It's a relatively weak skill when it's used as a DoT and it's overshadowed by other spammables (such as Surprise Attack, Biting Jabs and Lethal Arrow). Similarly to Cliff Racer, I also lost DPS when I added it to my rotation:

With Cutting Dive instead of the passively slotted Molten Whip: 144K DPS
I used it for its DoT and the skill dealt 3.8% of my damage, which is pretty low for a single target skill you have to activate once every 10 seconds (though I admittedly didn't have it up all of the time).



With Cutting Dive instead of Surprise Attack: 144K DPS
When I used the skill as a spammable instead, the DoT only dealt 1.8% of my total damage and that isn't great either compared to the additional effects some spammables have.

• Perhaps applying Off Balance could be replaced with a more impactful effect?
• I'd personally like it if the DoT could stack up to X times, which might make the Dro'Zakar's Claws set viable again.
• Or maybe the instant hit could always apply the Hemorrhaging status effect, similar to how Surprise Attack always procs Sundered.

Fetcher Infection

• Unsurprisingly, I also lost a little bit of DPS when I added this skill to the setup:

With Fetcher Infection instead of the passively slotted Molten Whip: 146K DPS

• Despite every second cast dealing 60% more damage, Fetcher Infection's damage is still relatively low and it's not really worth using now that subclassing gives players access to skills that are better. Therefore, it would be great if it received some kind of buff.
• It could infect the target with a debuff that increases their damage taken from the player's Warden abilities by X%, for example.

Growing Swarm

• Similarly, adding Growning Swarm was a DPS loss as well:

With Growing Swarm instead of the passively slotted Molten Whip: 144K DPS

I forgot to take a screenshot of Growing Swarm's damage, but it's far down the list.

• Since other Class and Scribing skills can apply Minor Vulnerability in an AoE, it's odd that Growing Swarm only inflicts the primary target with the debuff. I think it'd be good if it effected all enemies in its radius instead.
• The 5 meter radius is rather small as well – especially compared to Solar Barrage's 8 meters. It would be nice if it was increased a bit in my opinion.
• The damage itself is lackluster too. I think it'd be great if it grew in strength over its duration like Hurricane, which would fit this morph's name a bit, or had an increased chance to apply the Hemorrhaging status effect.

Passives

• Since this skill line has the most Bleed Damage abilities of all class skill lines by far, I think adding some sort of Bleed Damage buff to its passives would be fitting. (But I wouldn't say no to something else, of course. )
• Since Savage Beast effect isn't that impactful, especially now that different class passives that generate Ultimate don't stack, perhaps it could increase Bleed Damage by 5% as well?
• Alternatively, Advanced Species could also increase Bleed Damage by X% per slotted Animal Companions ability since other class passives that increase Critical Damage have a second effect as well (see Piercing Spear, Hemorrhage and Fated Fortune).

Other Animal Companions musings:

Eternal Guardian

• Sadly, this morph is underwhelming compared to the Wild Guardian. It deals less DPS and the instant respawn isn't that useful either.
• But maybe activating the Guardian's Wrath Ultimate could grant the group a buff or apply a debuff to the enemy? That would give it a different use case than the Wild Guardian, since it can't compete with its damage. (If it applied a debuff, it would be nice to change the ultimate into an AoE attack though.)

Scorch/ Deep Fissure

• Since shalks deal Flame Damage, and the name 'Scorch' sounds like something that would leave burn marks, maybe the base skill and Deep Fissure could deal Flame Damage?
• That would be a small buff for subclass setups with the Ardent Flame skill line, since it'd synergize better with those passives, and the skill could then be buffed by Engulfing Flames and Encratis's Behemoth as well (though I believe the latter isn't really used much anymore).

YandereGirlfriend

Quite like that you're continuing to bang the drum for Warden as the Bleed class (which makes complete thematic sense).

Also respect for attempting to necromantically raise the Dro'Zakar set, a neat and thematic set that was killed-off before it ever got the chance to live (if you happen to know, that bonus still functions like Bloodthirsty and is unable to be buffed by %mods, right?).

IMO, though, the Cliff Racers all need their animation speed doubled to ever see use as spammables. Using them feels like you're trapped in quicksand or have extreme input latency or something, they're simply too slow and unresponsive no matter how much power they have on paper (Screaming is crazily OP in terms of tacked-on random buffs but still nobody uses it because the skill simply feels bad to use).