2 Bars Swapping putting me off game

Rungar

Zos should add an alternate ui in addition to the current one that has a single bar setup but maintains most of the functionality. All it requires is a revolver slot, charge slot, and 2 passive slots and its almost equal to whats in the game now but no barswapping required.

its pretty simple:
1) revolver slot:
you can load three abilities into the revolver slot which only uses 1 button which cycles through the skills one at a time. Downside is that you have to use them in succession so you need some strategy in what you put there.
2) Passive slots:
You can slot two skills here but you cant click them so they are good for passive abilities.
3) charge slot to replace barswap. One extra skill using the barswap button. This is a charge skill like a mini ultimate but it charges on certain selectable events ( like taking or giving certain damage) and cant be used until its charged like the ultimate. Makes the skill much stronger but can only be used when charged like the ultimate.

this gives near the functionality of the current setup without the need for constantly barswapping. The revolver slot also simplifies certain repetitive actions like buffs and dots.

current setup with barswap is 10 skills 2 ultimates
new setup without barswap is 7 skills 1 ultimate, two while slotted 2 passives and a charge slot.

you can still swap out weapons in combat but it would be a slower process on the potion wheel and only to change strategy not for dps purposes. The single bar setup is slightly weaker but more streamlined and easier to use. Stick it in and let players decide what one they like best. Who says you can only have one setup to control your characters abilities? Nobody. You just didn't think of it.

i would also do a couple of other things but this gets the job done for now. Its not a base game addition but a purchasable alternate control scheme. Because its technically slightly weaker than the two bar system its really a convenience. It comes free with the next season, is also unlocked with eso plus or can be purchased with crowns.

colossalvoids

That's a game about player's personal skill rather than gear. Not about finger dexterity, but finding solutions. Home temperature IQ and some fingers would be enough, couple hours a day. You still can circumvent the skill requirement with certain setups and simply rebinding your keys. It's surely polarising but nothing can be for everyone, by changing the current order of things you ultimately showing the finger to people who do enjoy such a system, which isn't the best thing for a game bleeding dedicated players yearly.

If you do really want to find a solution for your personal issue you can, setups are out there for grabbing and learning their ropes. If you somehow justify not doing it by being "unviable" then you can remain "viable" not having any semblance of fun and not being able to meet the basic DPS requirements out there not executing the meta build good enough.

ADarklore

And... this is exactly WHY all my builds utilize Oakensoul. Do people not realize how many buffs the ring actually gives? I hear people saying, slot this on the back bar for the buff... when I get that exact buff just wearing a ring! I don't need a back bar if a ring gives me pretty much everything I need or usually could get from another player. Sure I could slot a couple of extra damage skills- oh wait- my back bar is filled with buff passive skills.

I remember back before Oakensoul... I would so frequently swap bars and then 'think' I swapped back only to realize two or three skills later that I was still on the back bar because of the 'delay' in swapping. It grew so irritating that I rarely swapped bars because of being tired of having to pay attention to- in the midst of the excitement of combat- whether my bar actually swapped or not. When Oakensoul came out, it was a HUGE relief to me- and I haven't looked back.

Pixiepumpkin

kurbbie_s wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

I've played mmos since GW1/WoW, And as much as I love the World and Quests of ESO, the combat truly ruins the game for me. I can't manage 2 bars, it feels horrible, I hate having to keep swapping weapon to constantly non stop re apply 10 second buffs etc, it feels like most time in combat is just bar swapping and re applying... the most awful combat I've ever had in an MMO, It's literally such a high skill ceiling it's just made for the few people who have IQ 1000 and can manage it as the only game they play 18 hours a day. I've got and used the Oak Ring, but it's not competitive at alll in PVP and in PVE it limits your dmg too much, I play arcanist and feel like you're forced to use specific abilities for the crux builder and spender so limits my 1 bar more. Why was the game ever made to be like this?

It appears that the game was designed with bar swapping so that one game could be made to work on multiple gaming platforms, meaning PC, XBOX and Playstation. Because consoles are limited in buttons due to the controllers, the spells used would be minimal. Bar swapping allows for more skills to be employed (double the amount) while retaining the limited button count of controllers.
The mechanic of swapping "Weapons" was most likely designed to give credibility to why bar swapping would exist. It makes it more understandable.

This allows the game to be sold across multiple platforms, generating more revenue, which is in my estimation, why the design was put forth in the first place. You can see that philosophy throughout the game of recycling and making things already made used over and over. Sub classing that is coming does this. The character models do this (there is really only 1 race in ESO, with 10 different heads.

Now, I agree with you on the swapping bars too often to buff over and over. I hate the mechanic. Buffing is not fun like actually using a skill that does something like a pull, teleport, or even some cool AOE DPS.

It's also hard on older hands or folks with arthritis. It's also hard on folks with high ping as the swapping is not reliable.

Frankly, the way I would have done it is to make weapons feel more like weapons and be unique to themselves without any buffing. New World does an amazing job with this. Their bar swap mechanic feels more natural as its not necessary to swap unless you want to change weapon type for a different playstyle. Sadly, the rest of the game is bleh imo.

This is my guess as to why bar swapping was designed and implemented.

"console this, console that" GW2 has bar swapping. Nothing to do with console.

I never denigrated console, there is no need to get defensive. I simply explained why the system was designed the way it is.

Secondly, GW2 was very much made with the idea of it going to console (and why bar swapping was implemented).

Renato90085

ADarklore wrote: »

And... this is exactly WHY all my builds utilize Oakensoul. Do people not realize how many buffs the ring actually gives? I hear people saying, slot this on the back bar for the buff... when I get that exact buff just wearing a ring! I don't need a back bar if a ring gives me pretty much everything I need or usually could get from another player. Sure I could slot a couple of extra damage skills- oh wait- my back bar is filled with buff passive skills.

I remember back before Oakensoul... I would so frequently swap bars and then 'think' I swapped back only to realize two or three skills later that I was still on the back bar because of the 'delay' in swapping. It grew so irritating that I rarely swapped bars because of being tired of having to pay attention to- in the midst of the excitement of combat- whether my bar actually swapped or not. When Oakensoul came out, it was a HUGE relief to me- and I haven't looked back.

this bug fixed so many patch ago..all back bar passive buff skill cant buff oaken
my friend main use oaken build,this fix same time fix oaken can do vcr+3 bug(swap bar mech)



27170 magic+8%max magic=27170

Aliniel

The game is so ridiculously easy right now you can literally just spam one skill to do your quests. Or comfortably one-bar for most normal content.

As for the mechanic itself - it's what makes ESO unique and it would be a mistake to remove that.

Danikat

I'm surprised bar swapping is new to so many people. I'm not sure when the idea was invented, but the first PC RPG I played that used multiple skill bars was Baldur's Gate 1, back in 1998, and there's been a lot since then.

Admittedly it's a bit different in games with a pause button, where you can take your time finding the skill you want, but the basic idea is the same, and much easier than in older games where you had to open the full spell book or other ability menu each time to find the one you wanted.

I know the Elder Scrolls games never used them, but I think it's relatively rare that someone plays TES games but has never played other RPGs.

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

kurbbie_s wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

I've played mmos since GW1/WoW, And as much as I love the World and Quests of ESO, the combat truly ruins the game for me. I can't manage 2 bars, it feels horrible, I hate having to keep swapping weapon to constantly non stop re apply 10 second buffs etc, it feels like most time in combat is just bar swapping and re applying... the most awful combat I've ever had in an MMO, It's literally such a high skill ceiling it's just made for the few people who have IQ 1000 and can manage it as the only game they play 18 hours a day. I've got and used the Oak Ring, but it's not competitive at alll in PVP and in PVE it limits your dmg too much, I play arcanist and feel like you're forced to use specific abilities for the crux builder and spender so limits my 1 bar more. Why was the game ever made to be like this?

It appears that the game was designed with bar swapping so that one game could be made to work on multiple gaming platforms, meaning PC, XBOX and Playstation. Because consoles are limited in buttons due to the controllers, the spells used would be minimal. Bar swapping allows for more skills to be employed (double the amount) while retaining the limited button count of controllers.
The mechanic of swapping "Weapons" was most likely designed to give credibility to why bar swapping would exist. It makes it more understandable.

This allows the game to be sold across multiple platforms, generating more revenue, which is in my estimation, why the design was put forth in the first place. You can see that philosophy throughout the game of recycling and making things already made used over and over. Sub classing that is coming does this. The character models do this (there is really only 1 race in ESO, with 10 different heads.

Now, I agree with you on the swapping bars too often to buff over and over. I hate the mechanic. Buffing is not fun like actually using a skill that does something like a pull, teleport, or even some cool AOE DPS.

It's also hard on older hands or folks with arthritis. It's also hard on folks with high ping as the swapping is not reliable.

Frankly, the way I would have done it is to make weapons feel more like weapons and be unique to themselves without any buffing. New World does an amazing job with this. Their bar swap mechanic feels more natural as its not necessary to swap unless you want to change weapon type for a different playstyle. Sadly, the rest of the game is bleh imo.

This is my guess as to why bar swapping was designed and implemented.

"console this, console that" GW2 has bar swapping. Nothing to do with console.

I never denigrated console, there is no need to get defensive. I simply explained why the system was designed the way it is.

Secondly, GW2 was very much made with the idea of it going to console (and why bar swapping was implemented).

It seems unlikely that was the reason. GW1 also limited you to a bar of 8 skills (and weapon swapping didn't change them) and that game was never even rumoured to be on consoles. The rest of GW2's UI also isn't remotely console friendly - even people who use a controller in combat often switch to mouse and keyboard to navigate the menus. So it seems unlikely they designed just that one feature in case they ever ported the game, then kept it for over a decade after dropping the idea.

Pixiepumpkin

Danikat wrote: »

I'm surprised bar swapping is new to so many people. I'm not sure when the idea was invented, but the first PC RPG I played that used multiple skill bars was Baldur's Gate 1, back in 1998, and there's been a lot since then.

Admittedly it's a bit different in games with a pause button, where you can take your time finding the skill you want, but the basic idea is the same, and much easier than in older games where you had to open the full spell book or other ability menu each time to find the one you wanted.

I know the Elder Scrolls games never used them, but I think it's relatively rare that someone plays TES games but has never played other RPGs.

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

kurbbie_s wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

I've played mmos since GW1/WoW, And as much as I love the World and Quests of ESO, the combat truly ruins the game for me. I can't manage 2 bars, it feels horrible, I hate having to keep swapping weapon to constantly non stop re apply 10 second buffs etc, it feels like most time in combat is just bar swapping and re applying... the most awful combat I've ever had in an MMO, It's literally such a high skill ceiling it's just made for the few people who have IQ 1000 and can manage it as the only game they play 18 hours a day. I've got and used the Oak Ring, but it's not competitive at alll in PVP and in PVE it limits your dmg too much, I play arcanist and feel like you're forced to use specific abilities for the crux builder and spender so limits my 1 bar more. Why was the game ever made to be like this?

It appears that the game was designed with bar swapping so that one game could be made to work on multiple gaming platforms, meaning PC, XBOX and Playstation. Because consoles are limited in buttons due to the controllers, the spells used would be minimal. Bar swapping allows for more skills to be employed (double the amount) while retaining the limited button count of controllers.
The mechanic of swapping "Weapons" was most likely designed to give credibility to why bar swapping would exist. It makes it more understandable.

This allows the game to be sold across multiple platforms, generating more revenue, which is in my estimation, why the design was put forth in the first place. You can see that philosophy throughout the game of recycling and making things already made used over and over. Sub classing that is coming does this. The character models do this (there is really only 1 race in ESO, with 10 different heads.

Now, I agree with you on the swapping bars too often to buff over and over. I hate the mechanic. Buffing is not fun like actually using a skill that does something like a pull, teleport, or even some cool AOE DPS.

It's also hard on older hands or folks with arthritis. It's also hard on folks with high ping as the swapping is not reliable.

Frankly, the way I would have done it is to make weapons feel more like weapons and be unique to themselves without any buffing. New World does an amazing job with this. Their bar swap mechanic feels more natural as its not necessary to swap unless you want to change weapon type for a different playstyle. Sadly, the rest of the game is bleh imo.

This is my guess as to why bar swapping was designed and implemented.

"console this, console that" GW2 has bar swapping. Nothing to do with console.

I never denigrated console, there is no need to get defensive. I simply explained why the system was designed the way it is.

Secondly, GW2 was very much made with the idea of it going to console (and why bar swapping was implemented).

It seems unlikely that was the reason. GW1 also limited you to a bar of 8 skills (and weapon swapping didn't change them) and that game was never even rumoured to be on consoles. The rest of GW2's UI also isn't remotely console friendly - even people who use a controller in combat often switch to mouse and keyboard to navigate the menus. So it seems unlikely they designed just that one feature in case they ever ported the game, then kept it for over a decade after dropping the idea.

Did you not read the article? Arenanet clearly stated that they were considering putting the game on console months before the game was released, and then they give the reason why they did not go to console.

If there was no bar swapping, then console would be heavily limited to how many spells a class could use. Just like Oakensoul builds. The primary reason for bar swapping when designing the game for PC and console is to faciliate the need to work with console controllers. That is literally paramount and supercedes any other design decision in those regards.

BlueRaven

I seem to remember early on around the time of beta, the bar swap mechanic was talked about as an emergency type swap, or if you were a dps and needed a healer for a dungeon. I think they even mentioned an example where the tank dies in a boss fight and a dps could switch quickly to fill in as the tank gets revived.

Now it’s used as part of a rotation. I am with the OP on this, it’s not enjoyable.

Combat in eso, as a whole, is not enjoyable. It’s the main issue with the game.

Adam_Chattaway

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

I've played mmos since GW1/WoW, And as much as I love the World and Quests of ESO, the combat truly ruins the game for me. I can't manage 2 bars, it feels horrible, I hate having to keep swapping weapon to constantly non stop re apply 10 second buffs etc, it feels like most time in combat is just bar swapping and re applying... the most awful combat I've ever had in an MMO, It's literally such a high skill ceiling it's just made for the few people who have IQ 1000 and can manage it as the only game they play 18 hours a day. I've got and used the Oak Ring, but it's not competitive at alll in PVP and in PVE it limits your dmg too much, I play arcanist and feel like you're forced to use specific abilities for the crux builder and spender so limits my 1 bar more. Why was the game ever made to be like this?

You can play without Oaken and achieve much better results without bar swapping or simply barswapping once at the start of the fight to activate some buffs
Also there are buffs which last a lot longer than 10s for arcanist which you could just swap back once every 30s to apply.

In general though
Combat in almost all games will always have a skill-gap between players who don't want to participate and those who do.
It would be like telling a wow player not to sync up their cooldowns for an incoming burst window because its 'too high skilled' to achieve.
You can do most of the content in the game by just heavy attacking and not even casting any skills so I think ESO is low skilled enough.
If you want to participate in harder content learning game mechanics is part of the journey.

its the fact that bar swapping to just reapply buffs and dots constantly constantly constantly every few seconds is horrible gameplay, wow you jsut dont use coioldowns till a radi moment, i can push top dps in raids and mythics on wow, yet cant f stand dual bars in eso. explain why I feel so comfortable using multiple hotbars on wow, but cant stand the utter disgusting feeling of bar swapping? esom gw2, new world?

Adam_Chattaway

tauriel01 wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

THINK ABOUT THAT 25K > 130K from SKILL, that's WRONG.

Strongly disgree.

facts don't care about your feelings. you aint hitting 130k on 1 bar without buff stacking and dot stacking and this required HIGH skill and years of practice. Oh and what about weaving? Animation cancelling?

Animation cancelling isn't a thing in ESO. Weaving isn't nearly as hard as you think it is. 1sec is a long time in a rotation. And arcs weave least of all the toons. And seriously, if you can't hit over 45k with an arc just flail flail flail beam... I don't know what to tell you. I think you jumped into this game expecting to be top of the heap like you are in your other games, realized it's different, and now because it's different it sucks. I guess ESO isn't made for you?

ive played eso for 10 years+ since launch, i hate bar swapping, it snot a learn it issue,m its the fact dual bar in all games is f attrocious and feels bad, half the dam time i press switch and it doesnt go off so it throws the entire combat off because the dam bar wouldnt switch, no game should have a system this bad, theres no F need for it, just give me 10 slots and let me bind them, i go to switch ops stunned cant switch, throws off combat etc etc etc utterly dumb system.

Adam_Chattaway

Iselin wrote: »

Do you have the class script unlocked? Just put that on the banner script for a passive crux every 3 seconds.

Also in update 46 the beam has been reclassified to direct damage, which means that the beam will heal you for 7% of the damage done with the beam if you slot the Reaving Blows champion node.

Class script + that, and you'll be practically unkillable while spamming just 2 buttons: flail > beam.

I have an issue with flail, i think because its not instant cast and has a sill y0.3 second cast time it just feels really slow and laggy.

Adam_Chattaway

Elvenheart wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Between Subclassing and Scribing I think there's a few ways to really minimize this, getting essential buffs passively and from using skills you'd use anyhow. In PvP Oakensoul forces you into 1 role - dd, tank, or heal - where you can pull off 2 roles with 2 bars. But, lots of people have had luck with Mighty Chudan Monster Set, like lots, which gives Resolve passively. Take Arc's passive Brutality and NB's passive Savagery, that's the 3 basic essential buffs passively. Slot skills with passive effects, like Flare in the Support Line, and use Scribing to get buffs with some of your basic attacks. (I cant recommend Vault or Smash yet tho sadly)

Conversely however these things also reward stacking tons of various 4 second long effects and such pushing you further from the meta. But if you're new that doesnt really matter at all.

Thats the problem with ESO though isnt it which no other MMO suffers from, ESO is all about buffs buffs buffs, No ot her mmo i've played is completely build around buffs and set bonuses like this. hell in FFXIV theres 1 set and no speccing lol, your class is set skills, set spec, set gear.

That’s the beauty with ESO though isn’t it which no other MMO features, ESO is about building around buffs and set bonuses. In other MMOs there sometimes is only one set, no speccing, just class skills and set gear. How boring! 🥱

it's called balancing lol... something ESO sure as sh doesnt have.

Adam_Chattaway

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I find that most of the content in ESO can be soloed pretty easily without a two-bar rotation, without light attack weaving, and without potions, food/drink buffs, pets, and companions. Maybe not all world bosses, all normal dungeons, or vet dungeons-- but those are supposed to be group content, anyway. And yes, there are times when it's better to use a two-bar rotation and the other stuff I mentioned. But they really aren't necessary, especially if you're in a group rather than playing solo-- and even for soloing, they're optional most of the time.

If players want to use those things, that's fine; I'm not trying to argue against using them. But I get flabbergasted whenever I hear players who constantly use those things turn around and complain about them. The game doesn't force you to play any particular way, so if you aren't enjoying yourself by playing the game in whatever way you've been told to by other players, why not just stop letting other players dictate a playstyle to you and just play the game however you want?

you literally will get WRECKED AND DESTROYED in PVP if you don;t use a meta 2 bar buff build and dots, and in PVE you will be BANNED from all endgame hard content.

Adam_Chattaway

Estin wrote: »

This is a you issue, not the game. You can achieve over 100k DPS with a 1 bar arcanist with Velothi, Order's Wrath, and Deadly strike, all which are very easy to obtain. Arcanist has many essential buffs as passives just for having a skill slotted on any bar. You can use crit potions that you can use once every 45 seconds to gain the major crit buffs. All of arcanists skills have long 30 second timers. You only need to press ~10 keys per minute with 0 need to light or heavy attack. That's how dead simple the class is. You also have to make sure you're using the right dummy. If it doesn't have 21m HP and have Trial in its name, you're on the wrong one and will be doing at the very least half of your effective damage. Do some research before blaming the game.

Oakensoul is also competitive for PvP. There are plenty of builds out there that use it and can wipe the floor with many players. PvP just has a large skill gap that requires you to know how to play the game in order to stay alive long enough to win. Arcanist is also the #1 worst class to use in PvP. It has next to nothing going for it and relies heavily on proc sets like vateshran staff, maarselok, master's dual wield, and something like dragon's appetite, but those sets can be used on any other class and perform much better with them. Necro unironically miles better than Arcanist in almost every single way.

pretty much got all that and doing 45k on trial dummy?

Renato90085

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I find that most of the content in ESO can be soloed pretty easily without a two-bar rotation, without light attack weaving, and without potions, food/drink buffs, pets, and companions. Maybe not all world bosses, all normal dungeons, or vet dungeons-- but those are supposed to be group content, anyway. And yes, there are times when it's better to use a two-bar rotation and the other stuff I mentioned. But they really aren't necessary, especially if you're in a group rather than playing solo-- and even for soloing, they're optional most of the time.

If players want to use those things, that's fine; I'm not trying to argue against using them. But I get flabbergasted whenever I hear players who constantly use those things turn around and complain about them. The game doesn't force you to play any particular way, so if you aren't enjoying yourself by playing the game in whatever way you've been told to by other players, why not just stop letting other players dictate a playstyle to you and just play the game however you want?

you literally will get WRECKED AND DESTROYED in PVP if you don;t use a meta 2 bar buff build and dots, and in PVE you will be BANNED from all endgame hard content.

really? i teach some new guild do hard mode trial main use one bar sorc or arc group run... game have 13 trial,and only 3 or 4 you really cant use 1 bar build ...or 2 bar but only parse 100k+ and not own aoe..
not sure pvp,because i not play many,but is ganker and werewolf not main use oaken?

Adam_Chattaway

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

kurbbie_s wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

I've played mmos since GW1/WoW, And as much as I love the World and Quests of ESO, the combat truly ruins the game for me. I can't manage 2 bars, it feels horrible, I hate having to keep swapping weapon to constantly non stop re apply 10 second buffs etc, it feels like most time in combat is just bar swapping and re applying... the most awful combat I've ever had in an MMO, It's literally such a high skill ceiling it's just made for the few people who have IQ 1000 and can manage it as the only game they play 18 hours a day. I've got and used the Oak Ring, but it's not competitive at alll in PVP and in PVE it limits your dmg too much, I play arcanist and feel like you're forced to use specific abilities for the crux builder and spender so limits my 1 bar more. Why was the game ever made to be like this?

It appears that the game was designed with bar swapping so that one game could be made to work on multiple gaming platforms, meaning PC, XBOX and Playstation. Because consoles are limited in buttons due to the controllers, the spells used would be minimal. Bar swapping allows for more skills to be employed (double the amount) while retaining the limited button count of controllers.
The mechanic of swapping "Weapons" was most likely designed to give credibility to why bar swapping would exist. It makes it more understandable.

This allows the game to be sold across multiple platforms, generating more revenue, which is in my estimation, why the design was put forth in the first place. You can see that philosophy throughout the game of recycling and making things already made used over and over. Sub classing that is coming does this. The character models do this (there is really only 1 race in ESO, with 10 different heads.

Now, I agree with you on the swapping bars too often to buff over and over. I hate the mechanic. Buffing is not fun like actually using a skill that does something like a pull, teleport, or even some cool AOE DPS.

It's also hard on older hands or folks with arthritis. It's also hard on folks with high ping as the swapping is not reliable.

Frankly, the way I would have done it is to make weapons feel more like weapons and be unique to themselves without any buffing. New World does an amazing job with this. Their bar swap mechanic feels more natural as its not necessary to swap unless you want to change weapon type for a different playstyle. Sadly, the rest of the game is bleh imo.

This is my guess as to why bar swapping was designed and implemented.

"console this, console that" GW2 has bar swapping. Nothing to do with console.

I never denigrated console, there is no need to get defensive. I simply explained why the system was designed the way it is.

Secondly, GW2 was very much made with the idea of it going to console (and why bar swapping was implemented).

I mean XB1/PS4 were far too weak for mmo's, a XB360 was just asking for a game to run at 3 fps, GW2 was not well optimized either for years.

Tandor

TaSheen wrote: »

I'm not a combat fan at all. A LOT of that in this game has to do with bar swapping. I enjoyed combat in WoW and RIFT - because it was all on the keyboard, including Shift/Control/Alt keys - for a touch typist of many decades, that was simplicity itself.

Bar swapping just interrupts the combat flow for me in this game. One of many reasons I'm not happy..... And buff management is SO not fun....

Given your solo overland playstyle, I'm surprised you should need to bar swap. Is there a particular content that you need buff management for?

Ascarl

BlueRaven wrote: »

I seem to remember early on around the time of beta, the bar swap mechanic was talked about as an emergency type swap, or if you were a dps and needed a healer for a dungeon. I think they even mentioned an example where the tank dies in a boss fight and a dps could switch quickly to fill in as the tank gets revived.

Now it’s used as part of a rotation. I am with the OP on this, it’s not enjoyable.

Combat in eso, as a whole, is not enjoyable. It’s the main issue with the game.

In beta animation canceling was also considered a bug soon to be quenched.

Frayton

Estin wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

game 90% pve meta is 1 bar sorc and arcanist so you not really must swap bar...

It's possible to do more DPS without 1 bar, but yes, it's strong and exists as an accessibility playstyle for players who are unable to use 2 bars.

Arcanist feels unintentionally easy to play though, as the beam clearly out performs all other Arcanist abilities/play-styles, and previous patch notes where they nerfed the beam have stated that their goal is to require slightly more complex ability rotation to get the same DPS. Though their nerf failed to actually incentivize doing a more complex rotation, people just got better at optimizing the beam damage, and banner bearer with crux generation made that even worse because you can consistently get full crux stacks during each beam channel, only having to not spam beam when you need to rebuff. So I guess it would be fine to leave this in game as another alternative for players that aren't able to adjust to 2 bars and light attack weaving, but they need to bring the 6 enemy max cap nerf from PTS to live, and they need to buff the other Arcanist abilities so this isn't the ONLY thing Arcanists can do. Oh and fix the Tentacular Dread + Inspiration bug that's been in the game since Arcanist was released.

You reminded me...if op really need do 130k dps in Pve like he want do real hard thing he still need give up 1 bar,because Ha build lost aoe dmg so long and 1 bar can't use other set...

It's been a while since I checked, but next patch you can easily hit 130-150k with the new HA mythic by doing nothing but holding left click and queueing ulfsild's once every 10 seconds. The game can't get any simpler than that.

Is this really going live?

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings all,

After removing some comments, we would like to remind all members of the community to be sure to keep the Community Rules in mind.

Regards,
-Greg-

ImmortalCX

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

tauriel01 wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

THINK ABOUT THAT 25K > 130K from SKILL, that's WRONG.

Strongly disgree.

facts don't care about your feelings. you aint hitting 130k on 1 bar without buff stacking and dot stacking and this required HIGH skill and years of practice. Oh and what about weaving? Animation cancelling?

Animation cancelling isn't a thing in ESO. Weaving isn't nearly as hard as you think it is. 1sec is a long time in a rotation. And arcs weave least of all the toons. And seriously, if you can't hit over 45k with an arc just flail flail flail beam... I don't know what to tell you. I think you jumped into this game expecting to be top of the heap like you are in your other games, realized it's different, and now because it's different it sucks. I guess ESO isn't made for you?

ive played eso for 10 years+ since launch, i hate bar swapping, it snot a learn it issue,m its the fact dual bar in all games is f attrocious and feels bad, half the dam time i press switch and it doesnt go off so it throws the entire combat off because the dam bar wouldnt switch, no game should have a system this bad, theres no F need for it, just give me 10 slots and let me bind them, i go to switch ops stunned cant switch, throws off combat etc etc etc utterly dumb system.

Which mouse button do you use for swap? I use the push function of the scroll wheel. Makes swapping feel natural.

The only problem is sometimes it doesn't swap, or perhaps I didn't wait long enough for swap to happen. I see it as mostly a skill/impatience issue, but it could be a server issue.

Does anyone know, is bar swap verified server side? IOW, does the server tell your client that it acknowledges the bar swap? It seems that this could be the issue, having to wait for server to acknowledge you swapped. If this wasn't part of the design, client hacks would enable you to fire any skill, any time.

Estin

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Estin wrote: »

This is a you issue, not the game. You can achieve over 100k DPS with a 1 bar arcanist with Velothi, Order's Wrath, and Deadly strike, all which are very easy to obtain. Arcanist has many essential buffs as passives just for having a skill slotted on any bar. You can use crit potions that you can use once every 45 seconds to gain the major crit buffs. All of arcanists skills have long 30 second timers. You only need to press ~10 keys per minute with 0 need to light or heavy attack. That's how dead simple the class is. You also have to make sure you're using the right dummy. If it doesn't have 21m HP and have Trial in its name, you're on the wrong one and will be doing at the very least half of your effective damage. Do some research before blaming the game.

Oakensoul is also competitive for PvP. There are plenty of builds out there that use it and can wipe the floor with many players. PvP just has a large skill gap that requires you to know how to play the game in order to stay alive long enough to win. Arcanist is also the #1 worst class to use in PvP. It has next to nothing going for it and relies heavily on proc sets like vateshran staff, maarselok, master's dual wield, and something like dragon's appetite, but those sets can be used on any other class and perform much better with them. Necro unironically miles better than Arcanist in almost every single way.

pretty much got all that and doing 45k on trial dummy?

If you have Velothi, Deadly, and Order's Wrath all in the right traits, enchants, and passive and are still only doing 45k DPS on a 21m dummy, the problem is with you. You really only need to cast Inspired Scholarship once every 30 seconds, do 2 Cephaliarc's Flail, and then use Exhausting Fatecarver. Rinse and Repeat steps 2 and 3 until you need to recast Inspired Scholarship. Use The Languid Eye ultimate on cooldown for more damage. If you're daring enough, you can add Fulminating Rune (20 Seconds) and Deadly Cloak (20 seconds) for even more damage for only ~20 APM.

Estin

Servadei wrote: »

Estin wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

game 90% pve meta is 1 bar sorc and arcanist so you not really must swap bar...

It's possible to do more DPS without 1 bar, but yes, it's strong and exists as an accessibility playstyle for players who are unable to use 2 bars.

Arcanist feels unintentionally easy to play though, as the beam clearly out performs all other Arcanist abilities/play-styles, and previous patch notes where they nerfed the beam have stated that their goal is to require slightly more complex ability rotation to get the same DPS. Though their nerf failed to actually incentivize doing a more complex rotation, people just got better at optimizing the beam damage, and banner bearer with crux generation made that even worse because you can consistently get full crux stacks during each beam channel, only having to not spam beam when you need to rebuff. So I guess it would be fine to leave this in game as another alternative for players that aren't able to adjust to 2 bars and light attack weaving, but they need to bring the 6 enemy max cap nerf from PTS to live, and they need to buff the other Arcanist abilities so this isn't the ONLY thing Arcanists can do. Oh and fix the Tentacular Dread + Inspiration bug that's been in the game since Arcanist was released.

You reminded me...if op really need do 130k dps in Pve like he want do real hard thing he still need give up 1 bar,because Ha build lost aoe dmg so long and 1 bar can't use other set...

It's been a while since I checked, but next patch you can easily hit 130-150k with the new HA mythic by doing nothing but holding left click and queueing ulfsild's once every 10 seconds. The game can't get any simpler than that.

Is this really going live?

I checked again and nothing was actually changed except for some minor NB nerfs that would only take off about 5k damage from that parse at most, so yeah, it's really going live.

robpr

Servadei wrote: »

Is this really going live?

Yes, but that mythic is different from oakensoul, all it gives you is heavy attack damage that stacks with Empower. To get best from it, you want to use dots and passive skills on both bars.

Orbital78

Servadei wrote: »

Estin wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

game 90% pve meta is 1 bar sorc and arcanist so you not really must swap bar...

It's possible to do more DPS without 1 bar, but yes, it's strong and exists as an accessibility playstyle for players who are unable to use 2 bars.

Arcanist feels unintentionally easy to play though, as the beam clearly out performs all other Arcanist abilities/play-styles, and previous patch notes where they nerfed the beam have stated that their goal is to require slightly more complex ability rotation to get the same DPS. Though their nerf failed to actually incentivize doing a more complex rotation, people just got better at optimizing the beam damage, and banner bearer with crux generation made that even worse because you can consistently get full crux stacks during each beam channel, only having to not spam beam when you need to rebuff. So I guess it would be fine to leave this in game as another alternative for players that aren't able to adjust to 2 bars and light attack weaving, but they need to bring the 6 enemy max cap nerf from PTS to live, and they need to buff the other Arcanist abilities so this isn't the ONLY thing Arcanists can do. Oh and fix the Tentacular Dread + Inspiration bug that's been in the game since Arcanist was released.

You reminded me...if op really need do 130k dps in Pve like he want do real hard thing he still need give up 1 bar,because Ha build lost aoe dmg so long and 1 bar can't use other set...

It's been a while since I checked, but next patch you can easily hit 130-150k with the new HA mythic by doing nothing but holding left click and queueing ulfsild's once every 10 seconds. The game can't get any simpler than that.

Is this really going live?

You do understand that those numbers are only obtainable from someone that can do like 120k damage on live probably. These parses are just that, sitting still doing nothing but rotation. I am betting the average player will get the mythic and expect to do those numbers are end up more around 50k. Oakensoul gave most of the buffs FOR you, which was nice. But people still weren't maximizing its power before due to build mess ups. Personally I am hyped for two bar heavy attack builds to play around with that don't involve 10 seconds of empower. I wonder where those leads are going to come from anyways.

Stamicka

Well ESO isn't for everyone. I personally loved ESO's combat for a long time. It's still my favorite out of other games I've played. I hate tab target and cooldowns, I can't stand it at all honestly. So I simply don't play those MMOs. I don't expect them to change for me because they've found their audiences.

I wish people and the devs would approach ESO the same way. It's ok to have a different combat system, the game will find the right audience and those who don't like it will hopefully find something else.

tmacedo

What annoys me the most are those stupid little pushes that basically every minor mob have that interrupts you from bar swapping. A lot of times I continue the rotation by muscle memory only to see myself casting ritual of retribution as a spammable cause of the wrong bar that didnt swap.

Adam_Chattaway

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

tauriel01 wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

THINK ABOUT THAT 25K > 130K from SKILL, that's WRONG.

Strongly disgree.

facts don't care about your feelings. you aint hitting 130k on 1 bar without buff stacking and dot stacking and this required HIGH skill and years of practice. Oh and what about weaving? Animation cancelling?

Animation cancelling isn't a thing in ESO. Weaving isn't nearly as hard as you think it is. 1sec is a long time in a rotation. And arcs weave least of all the toons. And seriously, if you can't hit over 45k with an arc just flail flail flail beam... I don't know what to tell you. I think you jumped into this game expecting to be top of the heap like you are in your other games, realized it's different, and now because it's different it sucks. I guess ESO isn't made for you?

ive played eso for 10 years+ since launch, i hate bar swapping, it snot a learn it issue,m its the fact dual bar in all games is f attrocious and feels bad, half the dam time i press switch and it doesnt go off so it throws the entire combat off because the dam bar wouldnt switch, no game should have a system this bad, theres no F need for it, just give me 10 slots and let me bind them, i go to switch ops stunned cant switch, throws off combat etc etc etc utterly dumb system.

Which mouse button do you use for swap? I use the push function of the scroll wheel. Makes swapping feel natural.

The only problem is sometimes it doesn't swap, or perhaps I didn't wait long enough for swap to happen. I see it as mostly a skill/impatience issue, but it could be a server issue.

Does anyone know, is bar swap verified server side? IOW, does the server tell your client that it acknowledges the bar swap? It seems that this could be the issue, having to wait for server to acknowledge you swapped. If this wasn't part of the design, client hacks would enable you to fire any skill, any time.

I use mouse wheel left, any keyboard key doesn't feel right and seems to take too long, but mouse wheel push left also has its issues in hectic fights.

Thoriorz

Estin wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

game 90% pve meta is 1 bar sorc and arcanist so you not really must swap bar...

It's possible to do more DPS without 1 bar, but yes, it's strong and exists as an accessibility playstyle for players who are unable to use 2 bars.

Arcanist feels unintentionally easy to play though, as the beam clearly out performs all other Arcanist abilities/play-styles, and previous patch notes where they nerfed the beam have stated that their goal is to require slightly more complex ability rotation to get the same DPS. Though their nerf failed to actually incentivize doing a more complex rotation, people just got better at optimizing the beam damage, and banner bearer with crux generation made that even worse because you can consistently get full crux stacks during each beam channel, only having to not spam beam when you need to rebuff. So I guess it would be fine to leave this in game as another alternative for players that aren't able to adjust to 2 bars and light attack weaving, but they need to bring the 6 enemy max cap nerf from PTS to live, and they need to buff the other Arcanist abilities so this isn't the ONLY thing Arcanists can do. Oh and fix the Tentacular Dread + Inspiration bug that's been in the game since Arcanist was released.

You reminded me...if op really need do 130k dps in Pve like he want do real hard thing he still need give up 1 bar,because Ha build lost aoe dmg so long and 1 bar can't use other set...

It's been a while since I checked, but next patch you can easily hit 130-150k with the new HA mythic by doing nothing but holding left click and queueing ulfsild's once every 10 seconds. The game can't get any simpler than that.

Oh, really? Can you please show me a video or parse screenshot where you do with the new Mythic shoulder 130k+ just hold left click and without having to have Power Overload + watch the "off balance window"?
I've only seen one video on youtube but it was definitely not that easy "just hold left click"..
But I'll be happy if you found a way to do 130k+ with just left click and share with the community.