Is it true you can get banned by AI in zone chat?

FeedbackOnly

Getting back to ESO and want to make sure it's safe. Don't want to invest time in another game ruined by AI so would appreciate warning.

Lylith

you can certainly get warned in it.

certain words seem to trigger warnings.

Tandor

It's perfectly safe if you stick to the basic standards of decent language etc. AI may pick up triggers but ZOS claim that no actual ban is made without human input. You/re unlikely to find any game that doesn't have any AI at all these days.

moderatelyfatman

There have been numerous cases of people getting banned in private chats too.

A famous case involved someone in a trial group chat using a crude term to joking describe some glowing spheres that appear in vSO hard mode and got banned even though it was in a group chat and no one complained.

In another case in Cyrodill some typed 'Flag' to instruct players to go to the flag but accidentally hit the semicolon instead of the letter l and got autobanned.

DenverRalphy

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

A famous case involved someone in a trial group chat using a crude term to joking describe some glowing spheres that appear in vSO hard mode and got banned even though it was in a group chat and no one complained.

Group chat is not private chat. Granted it's less public, but it's not private. And if this did indeed happen, I'd venture to guess that nobody complained in front of everyone else in the chat. But someone had an issue with it all the same.

Pixiepumpkin

The best way to deal with chat, especially zone chat is not to chat at all.

I had a case where someone expressed that we cant say a certian word in zone chat. I explained that the word had legitimate meaning and if the conversation/context of that word were being discussed, that it was not inappropriate and I gave an example.

I was banned.

I sent in a ticket showing that I had not done anything wrong.

The ban was reversed, I was awarded crowns.

HOWEVER....ZOS said I STILL have a mark on my account (I think if you get three, you get perma banned).

This scared me so much I spent 15 dollars on a name change to change a character who's name MIGHT be taken out of context that I had used for 6 years and never reported (it was insanely mild).

Bottom line is that it does not matter if you are right or not, sadly you can get moderated and still be punished after a reversal like I am.

What it taught me is to stay out of chat. It's not worth getting your account banned especially if you have invested hundreds or thousands in crowns and DLC.

Mayrael

Unfortunately, just respecting the rules isn’t enough anymore, because even jokes can get us into trouble these days. In my opinion, this is already an infringement on free speech that borders on totalitarianism. Nowadays, anything and anyone can be offended, and we’re reaching the point of absurdity. It really saddens me that this is seeping into games. This is one of the reasons I’ve stepped back from social interactions in ESO, and I get the impression that game chats in general are no longer vibrant hubs of fascinating conversations. Instead, they’ve become lifeless bulletin boards. The moment you bring up any topic, even one related to the game, someone will inevitably take offense at the way it’s said, the form, or the content.

Danikat

I've only heard this mentioned on the forum, no one I've encountered in-game seems concerned about it. Of course if they were really paranoid they wouldn't be using in-game chat, but I've not seen anyone warning other people to be careful about what they say or anything like that, and chat seems as busy as it ever was so it doesn't appear to be putting people off, at least not on PC EU.

Some people are going to run into problems with any type of moderation. If that wasn't the case there wouldn't need to be rules because everyone would behave appropriately without needing to be told what that means.

But it seems like as long as you avoid insults, including ones you think are funny, you'll be ok.

Mayrael

Mayrael wrote: »

Unfortunately, just respecting the rules isn’t enough anymore, because even jokes can get us into trouble these days. In my opinion, this is already an infringement on free speech that borders on totalitarianism. Nowadays, anything and anyone can be offended, and we’re reaching the point of absurdity. It really saddens me that this is seeping into games. This is one of the reasons I’ve stepped back from social interactions in ESO, and I get the impression that game chats in general are no longer vibrant hubs of fascinating conversations. Instead, they’ve become lifeless bulletin boards. The moment you bring up any topic, even one related to the game, someone will inevitably take offense at the way it’s said, the form, or the content.

And that’s why the game feels so dead now compared to how it was a few years ago.

Mayrael

Danikat wrote: »

I've only heard this mentioned on the forum, no one I've encountered in-game seems concerned about it. Of course if they were really paranoid they wouldn't be using in-game chat, but I've not seen anyone warning other people to be careful about what they say or anything like that, and chat seems as busy as it ever was so it doesn't appear to be putting people off, at least not on PC EU.

Some people are going to run into problems with any type of moderation. If that wasn't the case there wouldn't need to be rules because everyone would behave appropriately without needing to be told what that means.

But it seems like as long as you avoid insults, including ones you think are funny, you'll be ok.

I’ve personally experienced this. Just because you haven’t doesn’t prove the issue doesn’t exist.

"I’ve never been attacked by a thief, but that doesn’t mean theft isn’t a real problem."

Pixiepumpkin

Danikat wrote: »

I've only heard this mentioned on the forum, no one I've encountered in-game seems concerned about it. Of course if they were really paranoid they wouldn't be using in-game chat, but I've not seen anyone warning other people to be careful about what they say or anything like that, and chat seems as busy as it ever was so it doesn't appear to be putting people off, at least not on PC EU.

Some people are going to run into problems with any type of moderation. If that wasn't the case there wouldn't need to be rules because everyone would behave appropriately without needing to be told what that means.

But it seems like as long as you avoid insults, including ones you think are funny, you'll be ok.

Not true. It happened to me, I posted it about 2 above your post. You can absolutely get wrongfully modded even when you do nothing wrong.

mrreow

I never say anything in the game chat for this reason and it is very silent despite hundreds of players on screen. I assume this is the default stance and common knowledge.

4 years ago people were casually talking so it was suprising to come back and see only silence, but then I saw some topics about recent issues and I just adopted same behavior

xylena_lazarow

Tandor wrote: »

It's perfectly safe if you stick to the basic standards of decent language

It's not. You can still be banned for say, making a typo when talking about the Sorc skill Crystal Frag.

Syldras

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

It's perfectly safe if you stick to the basic standards of decent language

It's not. You can still be banned for say, making a typo when talking about the Sorc skill Crystal Frag.

Or probably words that are normal in some languages, but insulting in English.

I've never seen a ban occurring over it yet, but when chatting with a friend, I regularly see some of our words cencored by the auto filter, sometimes we don't even get how exactly that word is an insult or what it even means in English (sometimes we look them up then, so we're constantly learning new English insults and swear words - thanks for that, I guess!). I just hope we'll never come across one that's classified as horrible enough for an auto ban.

Soarora

It’s hard to tell with zone chat, after all, there’s always the possibility of someone reporting you.

But I can also add evidence to the pile here in regards to DMs. A friend of mine got tempbanned for something they said in /whisper to me. I didn’t report them, they certainly didn’t report themselves, so it had to have been an AI reading the messages.

joshisanonymous

It would be nice for ZoS to clarify how this works here, but if you have so much experience getting banned in games for your language then maybe the problem is your language and not that you have to avoid games that use AI for moderation. It's not exactly a new thing -- keyword triggers are essentially really basic "AI" -- it's just more sophisticated now. Of course, it's still not gonna be perfect no matter what method they use, but I've never heard of someone receiving an accidental ban in ESO without it quickly being overturned.

Soarora

joshisanonymous wrote: »

It would be nice for ZoS to clarify how this works here, but if you have so much experience getting banned in games for your language then maybe the problem is your language and not that you have to avoid games that use AI for moderation. It's not exactly a new thing -- keyword triggers are essentially really basic "AI" -- it's just more sophisticated now. Of course, it's still not gonna be perfect no matter what method they use, but I've never heard of someone receiving an accidental ban in ESO without it quickly being overturned.

I get your point but I feel like it’s wrong to moderate peoples language when no one is harmed by it (aka no one reported it). Especially since this game is available outside of America where cultural sensitivities differ. Like, if an American called me the “c-word” that’s different than if an Australian did because it’s potentially coming from different views of the word (a slur vs harmless banter).

Also, this is not a children’s game. As far as I’ve seen, adults are not going to change their language because a game told them that word is bad. So, theres no learning potential like with a kids game.

amiiegee

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Getting back to ESO and want to make sure it's safe. Don't want to invest time in another game ruined by AI so would appreciate warning.

Its true, a friend got a 72h ban for no reason for a false report (he doesnt use text chat or anything, but someone in a bg reported him). When he made a ticket zos unbanned him straight away, but the fact they banned first without any reason proves, the reports sre worked off by some automatism without checking.

Xarc

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

I was banned.

I sent in a ticket showing that I had not done anything wrong.

The ban was reversed, I was awarded crowns.

wow.
interesting thing

I think that when you do a lot of PvP and for a while, you gain experience and end up knowing/being known by certain people with whom a certain rivalry can arise and sweet words can be exchanged. Sometimes it goes too far; that's part of human relationships too.
My IgnoreList has been full for a few years now, and sometimes it's hard to hold back, especially when someone provokes you, but hey, that's how it is.

cuddles_with_wroble

I know a player who got perma banned for typing to his friend in a group that only they were in.

Desiato

There have been players who used curse words to express frustration in /say while alone and were later actioned for it even though no one else was there.

There have been players who used expletives in group chat with friends who were comfortable with the terms and later actioned, despite no one reporting them. A particular hard working streamer was banned for 3 days, presumably affecting their viewership.

These are just two of many stories that have emerged over at least the last year or so.

ZOS later acknowledged that all in-game chat is logged and later processed by software to retroactively identify TOS violations. The violations are then evaluated by a human who makes the decision about whether or not to action the account.

So be careful about that you chat about in ESO because even if you're not banned, there could be customer service representatives reading your conversations without your knowledge. There is no such thing as a private conversation in ESO.

LesserCircle

Yeah it's true and even if you say it in private you can get banned for it, I have a few long time launch date players who got banned recently.

Renato90085

I never see this happen in my language
Is this only happen in english?

Its_MySniff

I stay out of chat if I feel I need to say something bad. Years ago I'd have a blast talking junk, now, I wouldn't dream of saying anything out of the way.

xylena_lazarow

Its_MySniff wrote: »

I stay out of chat if I feel I need to say something bad. Years ago I'd have a blast talking junk, now, I wouldn't dream of saying anything out of the way.

The sad part is there's still plenty of malicious jerks who know exactly how to disrupt and harass without technically breaking the rules, and attempting to report this issue through the system has never seemed to do anything.

JustLovely

ZOS updated it's ToS last year to include that we are accepting AI moderation and monitoring while playing ESO.

When they first implemented the system all kinds of people were being autobanned for absolutely nothing. They seem to have fine tuned their algorithm so there aren't as many undearned bans from their AI moderation system, but it's still FAR from perfect. People are still being autobanned for nothing.

This is one of the reasons I've virtually quit playing. It's crazy disrespectful of their customers and in my view a lazy solution to a made up problem. No ban should ever take place without a human reviewing the details and proof. AI is not that reliable yet.

Destai

I personally avoid chat in this game entirely. It’s not worth the stress to wonder if some inane mistake is going to cost me my account. There’s too much conflicting information on how AI moderation was implemented. Would rather gold spammers dealt with.

Desiato

Destai wrote: »

I personally avoid chat in this game entirely. It’s not worth the stress to wonder if some inane mistake is going to cost me my account. There’s too much conflicting information on how AI moderation was implemented. Would rather gold spammers dealt with.

Sometimes when I'm pvping or encounter long term bugs in pve, I'll type something about zos in group chat out of frustration and immediately dread it. Of course I feel the same dread almost every time I post here.

I guess sometimes people have to lose something before they realize they took it for granted.

Xarc

Destai wrote: »

I personally avoid chat in this game entirely. It’s not worth the stress to wonder if some inane mistake is going to cost me my account. There’s too much conflicting information on how AI moderation was implemented. Would rather gold spammers dealt with.

It's a mmo, not a solo game...

are you at least using vocal?

DenverRalphy

joshisanonymous wrote: »

It would be nice for ZoS to clarify how this works here,<snip>

They have. Repeatedly. The topic of this thread comes up quite frequently. @ZOS_Kevin as repeatedly clarified how it all works. But there's a very vocal group of unbelievers who refuse to, well.. believe it.

Orbital78

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-g2WcKdCdE