Is ESO combat design average MMO style?

sans-culottes

blktauna wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

But the idea that ESO has amazing combat, makes me think folks have not really experienced the gamut of what exists.

No it just means we disagree with you.

I've played Diablo, NeverWinter, still play SWTOR and now Ashes of Creation. Their PVP mechanics all suck.

If ESO has “the best PvP mechanics,” then it’s only because expectations have been steadily lowered. Performance issues have plagued Cyrodiil for nearly a decade. Campaign balance is non-existent. Proc sets, exploit metas, and desyncs dominate most of what passes for competitive play. The “mechanics” themselves—block, roll, bash, dodge—are solid in a vacuum, but they exist inside a system that frequently breaks under its own weight.

Claiming ESO’s PvP is the best because other games “suck” isn’t exactly a compelling case. It’s more like being the tallest houseplant in a basement. That doesn’t make it a tree.

Pixiepumpkin

I quite liked SWTOR PVP. Loved my merc and my sorc. So many cool and fun abilities to use.
ESO has always lacked in this regard for me. None of the abilities really stand out as fun buttons to push. The sound and animations all feel watered down. Hard to explain.

Well, that being said I absolutely LOVE the meteor crashing down when farming metal. Very cool animation. The Mage recall from preorder is very cool as well, although it dawned on me that in WOW I could do the same thing 20 years ago, and all my party members could step through the portal. ESO really misses the boat on these kinds of things.

Stx

The “action” elements of ESO combat lose their charm when you constantly encounter unresponsiveness, lag, glitches, poor communication of damage events etc.

I personally feel guild wars 2 does combat the best. They have active dodges, blocks, etc but much less spammy and the abilities have cooldowns that make sense.

People love to hate on WoW combat but it’s still so smooth and fun to play. Even in giant clusters of enemies I know exactly what is happening and know what is killing me. ESO has so many lagging or cancelling of animations that most of the time you have to search your death log to understand what happened. Not to mention terrible balance lol.

sans-culottes

Stx wrote: »

The “action” elements of ESO combat lose their charm when you constantly encounter unresponsiveness, lag, glitches, poor communication of damage events etc.

I personally feel guild wars 2 does combat the best. They have active dodges, blocks, etc but much less spammy and the abilities have cooldowns that make sense.

People love to hate on WoW combat but it’s still so smooth and fun to play. Even in giant clusters of enemies I know exactly what is happening and know what is killing me. ESO has so many lagging or cancelling of animations that most of the time you have to search your death log to understand what happened. Not to mention terrible balance lol.

“Action combat” is one of those phrases that sounds like it means something until you try to define it. WoW doesn’t use the term, yet its inputs are tighter, clearer, and more deliberate. Elden Ring doesn’t either. Nevertheless, its combat has more weight, risk, and actual consequence in a single input than ESO does in an entire bar swap rotation. What ESO calls “action” mostly refers to animation canceling rebranded as “light attack weaving,” which is less a system and more a ritual. Slapping a label on it doesn’t make it coherent.

SeaGtGruff

I almost never use light attack weaving, since I've always been more into using heavy attacks and medium attacks-- at least, ever since I learned that heavy attacks restore resources. I don't use a heavy-attack build per se-- or any so-called "build" as such-- becauss I don't have the mythic gear which is "required" for that; I've just been using heavy attacks since long before heavy-attack builds were even a thing.

I also don't use bar-swapping or skill rotations as a regular playstyle, because I don't put the same weapons on my front and back bars. Front bar has my normal 2-Handed weapon and the skills I use with it, whereas my back bar either has Sword and Shield if I'm tanking, or Bow if I'm not tanking and want to have a ranged weapon at hand. The closest I've ever come to an actual two-bar rotation was using my back-bar weapon and skills to debuff the enemies and lay down an AoE DoT, then using my front-bar weapon and skills to whack away at the enemies for a bit, then rinse and repeat. But I don't bother getting into that sort of thing most of the time, unless I feel like I really need it.

For me, playing the game is all about having fun, and using the combat system in a more casual way is generally more fun-- and usually sufficient enough-- than trying to focus on a strict rotation and timing. This is especially true when there's lag or a varying amount of latency, in which case I find that being more adaptable in my timing is usually less frustrating.

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sans-culottes wrote: »

blktauna wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

But the idea that ESO has amazing combat, makes me think folks have not really experienced the gamut of what exists.

No it just means we disagree with you.

I've played Diablo, NeverWinter, still play SWTOR and now Ashes of Creation. Their PVP mechanics all suck.

If ESO has “the best PvP mechanics,” then it’s only because expectations have been steadily lowered. Performance issues have plagued Cyrodiil for nearly a decade. Campaign balance is non-existent. Proc sets, exploit metas, and desyncs dominate most of what passes for competitive play. The “mechanics” themselves—block, roll, bash, dodge—are solid in a vacuum, but they exist inside a system that frequently breaks under its own weight.

Claiming ESO’s PvP is the best because other games “suck” isn’t exactly a compelling case. It’s more like being the tallest houseplant in a basement. That doesn’t make it a tree.

Just to follow up on this, I periodically check on the off chance that ESO has improved, and its not, the PVP is an unstable lag fest and by far worst out out the big AAA mmorpgs. I Play in other mmorpg where performance is butter smooth with huge fights with up to hundreds of people with myself alone constantly casting 26+ spells on demand, many of which cleave and apply aoe. ESO Animation cancelling is actual an unaddressed design flaw that forces horrific skill spamming to be competitive (in any other game this would be nuked from a great height by empowered devs with an appropriate game engine) ESO is also cynically gear centric with very poor balancing.

In short ESO is still a mess, and when you have not been playing for a few years but checkin periodically you actually have a high level view and see the wood from the trees, where NOTHING has improved over the last 10 years and has actually got worse, with a series of obfuscating promises by developers who know exactly what the problems are but wont invest. I actually spluttered in my cornflakes when i saw them most asking for feedback on performance in this gaming forum (they have metrics on their servers)

As a lead dev with over 26 years experience, I will tell people straight, you are being fleeced, the PVE questing in ESO is quality, the rest is actually borderline broken.